This is my follower opnion, posted on the news forum.
Imo the follower system, the way it is presented, have one big flaw.
People will choose wich follower fits their character best. People will also choose their skills and items. No matter how "small" those choices are, they are choices. Jay Wilson said "we don't want to follower to feel like secondary character". As long as people choose their skills and itens and carry then everywhere, thats execly what they will feel. However, later in the game, the follower will be scraped. It will feels like, as you advance in the game, a part of your character will be scraped.
Imagine a avarage casual player starting to venture in the nightmare difficulty and fiding out that his companion is obsolete. Seriously, i can't imagine anyone happy in this situation. Everyone feels weird when advancing in the game the amount of game features decrease.
Theres a great way to fix this system. Remove a few follower customisation features and their ability to follow you anywhere you wanna go, so it will not feels like they are part of your character, but a part of the world around your character.
Make then appear only in quests related to then and adds such quests every now and then.
Example: It was said the Templar join your jorney to recover some scrolls Lazarus stole from his Order and you will find him in a prision of a dungeon in Act I. In the actual systen, after you save him, he may follow you everywhere but will only be useful in Normal. In my suggested system, after release him he will follow you until you beat the said dungeon. After that he moves to your camp and start to gives a chain of quests that will cross all 4 acts.
When you have this quest active and go to the dungeon/area of said quest, he will join you. After you complete the quest, he thanks you and go back to the camp. When you finish the quest chain he gives you very nice and unique reward (like a passive permanent bonus to all resistances, for example).
With this change, theres no reason to limit the feature to singleplayer and normal! But they still play the role they are suppose to play.
The good points of my suggested follower systen:
- The player will not have a sense that theres something missing between Normal and the higher difficultiess, wich is the number one problem right now.
- They can take a part in MP w/o making a fuz.
- They still play a big role in the game, add alot of lore elements and makes the world of sanctuary feels more filled with cool characters.
- They still play their main role: show to solo players how cool play with another player might be. Solo player will make a quest chain with some of the followers and see how cool it is to see a friend protecting you from danger by ccing the monsters, for example.
- They make some quests chains feels really unique and special. Not only the quest chain will involve a character you might like, but this quest will also have a really unique gameplay. Playing with a templar tanking and healing is surely alot different, for example. They can even build some new mechanics using the follower in specific situations. Like a certain boss that loose his shield when the enchantress curse him, for exemple.
- The item and skill choices don't need to be removed! You still pick a few skills for your follower and still give him items! The only diffenrence is that they will not level up with you since you will be using then only pontually.
Imo this design would make followers a perfect addition to the game. My 2 cents!
I voted in other. It's really close to the second option, but i can understand that blizz don't want players building secondary characters.
EDIT: Making my idea of follower a bit more clear.
I understand their goal is to tailor towards the solo player in the early portions of the experience but would I be wrong in assuming they will level all the way up to 60 along with the player? If that is the case then how could you not want followers to assist you in your solo Magic Find runs which we all know will happen time after time. Having them in a purely supportive role (Rain of Gold, Healing, CC) to accompany you in your solo effects even at max level (if that is the case) could be entirely beneficial considering the non-babysit factor of having them renew themselves.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal." -Albert Camus
Not looking for the official quote, but followers will be still very useful well into nightmare. No word on Hell though, but at the same time by than I'd hope you will be playing with other people.
“We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of life, when all that we need to make us happy is something to be enthusiastic about.” - Albert Einstein
I wonder if people who want them to be viable in later difficulties have considered how permanent followers affect gameplay and decided it is better with than without, or just think they are cool or that's because how it was in D2.
I really like how D3 is looking for the most part, but one thing that continues to irk me is how they seem to be oversimplifying some things.
Sure, it is good in some aspects, but sometimes it feels like Blizzard is treating us like autistic children. Don't let them spend their own stats because they will screw it up! Don't let them take Followers into MP because it's too chaotic! (They also cite voiceover repetition as a reason to not include them in MP... it is very easy to turn off their voice behavior...)
Too chaotic? Isn't this a Diablo game? Aren't we SUPPOSED to be exploding 12 monsters of varying roles at a time, dodging big hits, while leaping towards the Unactivated Vessels/Fallen Shaman before they cause bigger problems, all the while trying to juke the ice bolts that a group of magic monsters is spewing all over the screen?
I really don't think allowing Followers into the MP game is going to cause any mental overloads. The party size in D3 is four, and if we allowed followers it would skyrocket to eight (ZOMG! That's even moar then SEVEN!). Scary stuff, I know, but really eight is not as astronomically huge as it sounds at first. Most of us D2 veterans were able to do Hell Baal runs without getting too confused. Baal spawned between infinity and infinity (or was it between 8 and 12, oh well, Blizzard thinks we can't tell the difference anyways) minions at a time, but at least a few of us were able to apply our rocket scientist brains, and figure out a way to beat them (for those without PhDs, the secret is continue clicking your mouse like you have been for 10 hours).
Even when you had a party size of 12,000 (I mean 8, gosh they are both so high, sometimes I have trouble with numbers beyond 4) including a Summoner Necro, Summoner Druid, a Sorc that thew out hundreds of ice bolt orbs, an Hdin that tossed out endless hammers, and 4 other guys trying to steal your loot, along with 8 hirelings (all from Act 2 :D), I could understand what was going on. And this was in a sprite based game running at 800x600.
Yes, most people on the internet are retards (you probably think that of me, and I will think that of most people I encounter in D3 battle.net) but come on, Blizz. Our brains have the capability of registering eight friendly 3D models at a time. It won't be too chaotic. This is a freaking Hach N Slash.
We beat Golden Axe, even though it supported up to 3 players (admittedly, a gargantuan task at the time). When Turtles in Time came out, I bought a book and unraveled the mystery of the quantity of 4 (it almost killed me). It's been a few years, and I am ready for the next challenge (maintaining sanity with 4 WDs and 4 Followers on my screen)!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Bashiok - "How are the tests on feature XXX going?"
D3 Dev - "Well, our test chimpanzee was not able to understand feature XXX, but he is not a smart chimp."
Jay W - "WHAT?! Have it incinerated! Them simplify, no, REMOVE feature XXX!"
Players - "Wow that was close! I could not understand XXX feature, as I am legally retarded/in the Diablo 3 target audience!"
This is my follower opnion, posted on the news forum.
Imo the follower system, the way it is presented, have one big flaw.
People will choose wich follower fits their character best. People will also choose their skills and items. No matter how "small" those choices are, they are choices. Jay Wilson said "we don't want to follower to feel like secondary character". As long as people choose their skills and itens and carry then everywhere, thats execly what they will feel. However, later in the game, the follower will be scraped. It will feels like, as you advance in the game, a part of your character will be scraped.
Imagine a avarage casual player starting to venture in the nightmare difficulty and fiding out that his companion is obsolete. Seriously, i can't imagine anyone happy in this situation. Everyone feels weird when advancing in the game the amount of game features decrease.
Theres a great way to fix this system. Remove a few follower customisation features and their ability to follow you anywhere you wanna go, so it will not feels like they are part of your character, but a part of the world around your character.
Make then appear only in quests related to then and adds such quests every now and then.
Example: It was said the Templar join your jorney to recover some scrolls Lazarus stole from his Order and you will find him in a prision of a dungeon in Act I. In the actual systen, after you save him, he may follow you everywhere but will only be useful in Normal. In my suggested system, after release him he will follow you until you beat the said dungeon. After that he moves to your camp and start to gives a chain of quests that will cross all 4 acts.
When you have this quest active and go to the dungeon/area of said quest, he will join you. After you complete the quest, he thanks you and go back to the camp. When you finish the quest chain he gives you very nice and unique reward (like a passive permanent bonus to all resistances, for example).
With this change, theres no reason to limit the feature to singleplayer and normal! But they still play the role they are suppose to play.
The good points of my suggested follower systen:
- The player will not have a sense that theres something missing between Normal and the higher difficultiess, wich is the number one problem right now.
- They can take a part in MP w/o making a fuz.
- They still play a big role in the game, add alot of lore elements and makes the world of sanctuary feels more filled with cool characters.
- They still play their main role: show to solo players how cool play with another player might be. Solo player will make a quest chain with some of the followers and see how cool it is to see a friend protecting you from danger by ccing the monsters, for example.
- They make some quests chains feels really unique and special. Not only the quest chain will involve a character you might like, but this quest will also have a really unique gameplay. Playing with a templar tanking and healing is surely alot different, for example. They can even build some new mechanics using the follower in specific situations. Like a certain boss that loose his shield when the enchantress curse him, for exemple.
- The item and skill choices don't need to be removed! You still pick a few skills for your follower and still give him items! The only diffenrence is that they will not level up with you since you will be using then only pontually.
Imo this design would make followers a perfect addition to the game. My 2 cents!
I voted in other. It's really close to the second option, but i can understand that blizz don't want players building secondary characters.
EDIT: Making my idea of follower a bit more clear.
I agree with this man, but to clarify I would like to be able to still choose their skills. Item customisation for followers can be scrapped with this system. Also I think the follower could just be allowed in some areas rather than quests.
Imo anything should never be removed from a lower to a higher dificulty. The amount of decisions, features and content should allways grow as the game progresses, not the oposite. It's a logical priciple.
The problem with that is if you make them usable in higher difficulties, people will find builds that revolve around a follower. Which then means that they'll be playing SP all the time, which isn't what Blizz wants to promote. Not to mention that then you get the same problem as in D2, where people have builds that then get them killed every time the follower goes down. Especially with all the build possibilities in the game, it would be all but impossible to avoid.
The problem with that is if you make them usable in higher difficulties, people will find builds that revolve around a follower. Which then means that they'll be playing SP all the time, which isn't what Blizz wants
If Blizz don't want 1 player games to be the most efficient ones they should creat positive incentives for 3~4 player games that surpass the follower.
Ex:
y: player outcome (xp+gold+items) per hour or any other time scale. This is a function of number of players and/or followers.
y(1 player) = 10
y(1 player + 1 follower) = 12 (a increase of 2). 12 outcome per player.
y(2 players) = 30. 15 outcome per player. Since 15>12, people would choose to not play alone.
Why does two player more then doubles the outcome ? They can add a couple of fair mechanisms. Exp bonus for parties are a common party incentive in many online rpgs. Possible class synergies (like a barbarian tanking, allowing the wizard to reach desintegrate's full potential) is a reason that is even present in D2 (ex: poison necro + sorc, barbs + paladins)!
Almost certainly this kind of incentives will exist (they exist in every online game).
Not to mention that then you get the same problem as in D2, where people have builds that then get them killed every time the follower goes down. Especially with all the build possibilities in the game, it would be all but impossible to avoid.
What builds people will choose to play is not blizz' responsability! If people decide to play with this kind of character, it's their choice and their problem. They shouldn't be avoiding build archetypes unless those archetypes hurt the overall game.
Theres also the possibility i wrote in page one. In my suggestion all the actual problens is solved and the followers still play their roles.
Just read the poll and take the survey.
If you want to continue debate on the topic go to The Main Topic HERE.
You can leave a remark about how you feel, but don't criticize other's opinions as this is an opinion poll.
Don't debate in this forum or I will ask a Mod to remove your post! And then a kitten will get punched in the face.
I voted in other. It's really close to the second option, but i can understand that blizz don't want players building secondary characters.
EDIT: Making my idea of follower a bit more clear.
This is a crappy "other" response on how I want it to work, but my answer is......
"I'll make a decision when I've played Beta"
It was actually more of a question looking for a quick answer so I then could intern answer more accurately. Apologizes.
Vote - Single Player is fine, except I want the followers to be viable throughout Nightmare and Hell difficulties. i.e. their lvl cap is 60.
Edit - misread the votes, sorry for clogging up your clean thread.
No prob, don't worry about it.
/shrug
Game is gonna be fun for me regardless though.
Sure, it is good in some aspects, but sometimes it feels like Blizzard is treating us like autistic children. Don't let them spend their own stats because they will screw it up! Don't let them take Followers into MP because it's too chaotic! (They also cite voiceover repetition as a reason to not include them in MP... it is very easy to turn off their voice behavior...)
Too chaotic? Isn't this a Diablo game? Aren't we SUPPOSED to be exploding 12 monsters of varying roles at a time, dodging big hits, while leaping towards the Unactivated Vessels/Fallen Shaman before they cause bigger problems, all the while trying to juke the ice bolts that a group of magic monsters is spewing all over the screen?
I really don't think allowing Followers into the MP game is going to cause any mental overloads. The party size in D3 is four, and if we allowed followers it would skyrocket to eight (ZOMG! That's even moar then SEVEN!). Scary stuff, I know, but really eight is not as astronomically huge as it sounds at first. Most of us D2 veterans were able to do Hell Baal runs without getting too confused. Baal spawned between infinity and infinity (or was it between 8 and 12, oh well, Blizzard thinks we can't tell the difference anyways) minions at a time, but at least a few of us were able to apply our rocket scientist brains, and figure out a way to beat them (for those without PhDs, the secret is continue clicking your mouse like you have been for 10 hours).
Even when you had a party size of 12,000 (I mean 8, gosh they are both so high, sometimes I have trouble with numbers beyond 4) including a Summoner Necro, Summoner Druid, a Sorc that thew out hundreds of ice bolt orbs, an Hdin that tossed out endless hammers, and 4 other guys trying to steal your loot, along with 8 hirelings (all from Act 2 :D), I could understand what was going on. And this was in a sprite based game running at 800x600.
Yes, most people on the internet are retards (you probably think that of me, and I will think that of most people I encounter in D3 battle.net) but come on, Blizz. Our brains have the capability of registering eight friendly 3D models at a time. It won't be too chaotic. This is a freaking Hach N Slash.
We beat Golden Axe, even though it supported up to 3 players (admittedly, a gargantuan task at the time). When Turtles in Time came out, I bought a book and unraveled the mystery of the quantity of 4 (it almost killed me). It's been a few years, and I am ready for the next challenge (maintaining sanity with 4 WDs and 4 Followers on my screen)!
D3 Dev - "Well, our test chimpanzee was not able to understand feature XXX, but he is not a smart chimp."
Jay W - "WHAT?! Have it incinerated! Them simplify, no, REMOVE feature XXX!"
Players - "Wow that was close! I could not understand XXX feature, as I am legally retarded/in the Diablo 3 target audience!"
I agree with this man, but to clarify I would like to be able to still choose their skills. Item customisation for followers can be scrapped with this system. Also I think the follower could just be allowed in some areas rather than quests.
I voted other.
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If Blizz don't want 1 player games to be the most efficient ones they should creat positive incentives for 3~4 player games that surpass the follower.
Ex:
y: player outcome (xp+gold+items) per hour or any other time scale. This is a function of number of players and/or followers.
y(1 player) = 10
y(1 player + 1 follower) = 12 (a increase of 2). 12 outcome per player.
y(2 players) = 30. 15 outcome per player. Since 15>12, people would choose to not play alone.
Why does two player more then doubles the outcome ? They can add a couple of fair mechanisms. Exp bonus for parties are a common party incentive in many online rpgs. Possible class synergies (like a barbarian tanking, allowing the wizard to reach desintegrate's full potential) is a reason that is even present in D2 (ex: poison necro + sorc, barbs + paladins)!
Almost certainly this kind of incentives will exist (they exist in every online game).
What builds people will choose to play is not blizz' responsability! If people decide to play with this kind of character, it's their choice and their problem. They shouldn't be avoiding build archetypes unless those archetypes hurt the overall game.
Theres also the possibility i wrote in page one. In my suggestion all the actual problens is solved and the followers still play their roles.