question: Any info about how the trade system will work? Will there be a complete system where we won't rely on forums or set up trade games?
@diablo: Not yet, but it's something we're deeply involved in developing.
I wasn't aware that this was in the works.. that's awesome! Any ideas of what it would be? Similar to the auction house? That would definitely force gold to be a real currency.
From what I have heard, anything that will help gold be used extensively will most likely be added
And I agree that an auction house like system would be sweet
I'm pretty sure it's going to be an improvement to the player to player trading system rather than an edition of a trading house across large amount of players like WoW. That would be silly considering there's a max of 4 players per game.
“We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of life, when all that we need to make us happy is something to be enthusiastic about.” - Albert Einstein
It would make sense for it to me an out of game portal or something(well of its going to be part of the game, but an option before you log into a character). All the gold/items in your shared stash (which is supposed to be huge) will be accessible to put up for trade, and the gold in the shared stash will be accessible to use for bidding. When you buy/sell something it goes to your shared stash and then you can log into any character and withdraw the item/gold and then deposit more for trading.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A Post Concerning The Real-Money Auction House:
"Except real money trading has always been present in Diablo 2. Except now it's going to be officially supported which will reduce scams, prevent the funding of the black market so your kids will no longer be exposed to dangerous life ruining drugs like the cancer causing marijuana."
I'm 110% sure that they will not remove the 1 on 1 trading interface.. that wouldn't make any sense at all. I was just assuming that they would be adding something on TOP of that.
Because what if you're just in a game with a friend a few other random people? Don't want to have to go back to drop trades. Biggest fail ever. Always having to go through an AH would be inconvenient.
well i doubt they will be getting rid of 1 on 1 trades in game, but as a bigger trading system i would like to see an auction house system. this would keep gold as a valuable resource as well since you wouldnt be trading items right?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A Post Concerning The Real-Money Auction House:
"Except real money trading has always been present in Diablo 2. Except now it's going to be officially supported which will reduce scams, prevent the funding of the black market so your kids will no longer be exposed to dangerous life ruining drugs like the cancer causing marijuana."
I agree that diablo 2 trading system was quite poor. (Which is why d2jsp was so popular)
Blizzard should definetly improve on the trading feature, and use a different approach compared to other rpg games.
On the side note, I hope there is some feature where we are able to trade without much hassle.
I personally cant any think of good idea to do this, but "Global Market" sounds just way too dumb and doesnt fit the style of Diablo 2 theme. D3 is not WoW...
You have to remember diablo 2 is a co-op game and you wont come across 100000000 fellow fighters all at once. [Which is what Global market entails]..
Diablo isnt WOW but if it wasnt for Diablo WOW wouldnt have some of stuff it has in it. And there is other games that have AH's in it so why do we have to compare the two. I think a AH is a great idea along with 1 on 1 trading system. It wouldnt allow Assholes to rip people off.
In the end, a AH is better because it allows people to have fairer trades. In Diablo II, sometimes it's impossible to get what you want for a fair price simply because you have no alternatives. I'm having a nightmare trying to get a 4os eth ca or cv right now and I'm offering bers, ists, mals, BK's, arachs, and wisps. People will milk you dry.
With an AH, we can see prices so we have a ground for saying, no, that price is outrageous. We can see our options. We can get trades done faster because people who want what you have will be able to search for it with ease.
If this could be accessed at any time, whether ingame or not, it would be that much better. That way if you're levelling, you won't be missing out on the trade action. A complimentary peer-to-peer trading function for ingame purposes would still have to go alongside it, though.
In the end, a AH is better because it allows people to have fairer trades. In Diablo II, sometimes it's impossible to get what you want for a fair price simply because you have no alternatives. I'm having a nightmare trying to get a 4os eth ca or cv right now and I'm offering bers, ists, mals, BK's, arachs, and wisps. People will milk you dry.
With an AH, we can see prices so we have a ground for saying, no, that price is outrageous. We can see our options. We can get trades done faster because people who want what you have will be able to search for it with ease.
If this could be accessed at any time, whether ingame or not, it would be that much better. That way if you're levelling, you won't be missing out on the trade action. A complimentary peer-to-peer trading function for ingame purposes would still have to go alongside it, though.
Wow, touche' sir. I'm convinced, here's hoping for a AH! :thumbsup:
“We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of life, when all that we need to make us happy is something to be enthusiastic about.” - Albert Einstein
In the end, a AH is better because it allows people to have fairer trades. In Diablo II, sometimes it's impossible to get what you want for a fair price simply because you have no alternatives. I'm having a nightmare trying to get a 4os eth ca or cv right now and I'm offering bers, ists, mals, BK's, arachs, and wisps. People will milk you dry.
With an AH, we can see prices so we have a ground for saying, no, that price is outrageous. We can see our options. We can get trades done faster because people who want what you have will be able to search for it with ease.
If this could be accessed at any time, whether ingame or not, it would be that much better. That way if you're levelling, you won't be missing out on the trade action. A complimentary peer-to-peer trading function for ingame purposes would still have to go alongside it, though.
In whatever type of "Auction" House they implement, the prices should be fixed. They should not be variable or be up for bidding. That's got two problem:
1) It makes items subject to deflation. In turn, that encourages the implementation of mechanics that combat inflation, such as decreasing drop rates and bind-on-equip. In a game like Diablo, inflation is inevitable since items are continuously being generated. Mechanics that combat inflation only delay the proliferation of the market and are punitive to players.
2) Acquiring items becomes a function of supply and demand. All other ways to acquire items (drops, crafting, shopping) are based on random generation - each item has a fixed probability to drop which remains constant. Therefore, to control item rarity, you have to manage drop probability, supply, and demand. Managing supply requires balancing drop rates according to the number of players per region (undesirable) and managing demand requires nerfing items or introducting better items to replace those that have saturated the market. Both of those conditions existed in Diablo 2 and are evidence of a poor system: impossible drop rates (high runes, elite uniques, and good rares/crafts) as well as the introduction of increasingly powerful items to absurdity.
Diablo 3 should have a unified trade system that uses fixed pricing that is based upon an item's drop probability and power. That ensures that, using an intermediate currency, players exchange items of equal value. It also means that players don't have to become familiar with a region-wide economy or playing e-bay on Diablo, allowing them to focus on what they should be - killing demons.
Sorry, ... but fixed prices in an auction house is just a simple store ... Auction houses are always about bidding; and the economics will stabilize themselves after a while;
Sure it's just a "store"; you could call the Auction House the same thing (eBay is a store too).
You assume the the economics will "stabilize themselves" - how exactly?
You place item A into the Market, I place item A into the market;
You placed it before I did (I have more money than you have, and know ; it's dropping a bit rare and ppl will buy it for approx. 1000g instead of your 500g) -> so i buy it and still make profit ;
Next a guy passes by sees item A twice for 1000g ; and is owner of 1x[item A] ; he sees 1000g ea. so he places for 999g ; after a while more of item A occurs and price drops to a value where ppl start purchasing it for whatever reason ; Let's say they disassemble it for crafting ; item A vanishes out of the game you gain approx 2x[ItemB] and 1.5x[ItemC] per 1x[Item A] so you can now calculate it's raw value by [Item A].Price=(2*[ItemB].Price + 1.5[ItemC].Price) determining the price of [Item A] ; if [ItemB].Price & [ItemC].Price will drop due to uselessness [Item A].Price will either drop or raise (properly latest) due to usability while leveling up an alternate character (estimating it was an equipment piece)
tl;dr:
Supply and demand
A hypothetical market does not demonstrate anything. In other words, if you just make up scenarios of item A, B, and C, it reflects nothing about how a market will actually operate. If item A "vanishes out of the game", how is that stable? In a market with supply and demand, the price of item A is not a function of items B and C, therefore what you are describing ("you can now calculate it's raw value by determining the price of item A") is not a market based upon supply and demand.
1) It makes items subject to deflation. In turn, that encourages the implementation of mechanics that combat inflation, such as decreasing drop rates and bind-on-equip. In a game like Diablo, inflation is inevitable since items are continuously being generated. Mechanics that combat inflation only delay the proliferation of the market and are punitive to players.
Your system won't however solve any trade problems. In fact, it will most likely cause out-of-game trading like d2jsp to flourish once more.
Situation A: Game is brand new (or a new expansion, new patch), and you find the first "Sword of Tyrael". You realize it's a great item, but since you're a Demon Hunter, you opt to sell it. Now you can either go to the auction house and sell it for 100g, or you can try and sell it outside of the trade system for 200g. D2jsp is already there and ready to pick up D3 I'll wager, and if not, it won't be long before tons of other sites realize the potential that D3's faulty system presents.
You may argue that most people won't realize this at first. And you're right, right at launch people probably won't realize there are alternatives. But give it a few months and we'll see what happens.
Situation B: It's been two years, and people have suddenly realized that a "Tempered Sword" is great for a dual-wielding barbarian. Blizzard however thought it would suck, so they set the price in the "AH" at 10g, so everyone who finds one will try to sell it in other channels (like forums/public chat) for 100g. Ergo no one will use the trade system.
But wait you say, it's easy for Blizzard to fix that! Just adjust the price! Yes, that one item it's real easy. But whenever drop rates are adjusted, skills balanced, new item introduced etc, the system will be affected, and Blizzard will have to actively monitor what sells for what. This will have to be done manually by lots of employees circling trade forums outside of the game to keep track of what's going on. Much simpler is to simply let the market handle it.
The whole point is that point is that any economic system is subject to constant change, and only by letting the market handle it can you achieve any form of balance. Only then can you actually have supply meet demand, which is preferable.
Your suggestion still won't stop the inflation of items, because fixed prices in the AH does not in any way affect drop rates. Which is the real culprit here, and an unavoidable evil in a system that keeps generating items but never removes them.
2) Acquiring items becomes a function of supply and demand.
You cannot escape that fact. No matter what trade system you propose, D3 is not an isolated economy. Had it been, your suggestion might have worked somewhat, but the fact is that every last player will have access to the internet. And they will be able to trade outside of the game if Blizzard does not provide a superior service. D2 stands testament to that.
I would love to see a centralized trading system. Notice I say "trading" system, because I don't think a simple AH is enough. Something like when I post a new item I can chose: [ ] Gold [ ] Items. Then people can bid their items against mine and I get to choose which trade I want.
Which I'm sure sounds great from a D2 perspective. But consider that there will be millions of players. If you put up an item, and get 500 bids with varying randomized items, how can you possible make a correct assessment in what is worth what? You'll go through the first 50, pick the best of those, and ignore the test. And the other 10 items you want to sell will have similar turnouts. You cannot filter that information. This is why gold is so crucial, because an AH system based on gold will automatically filter all bids for you and give you the most profitable one. And all you have to do is press one button.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
wow has everyone forgot about market 101 about supply and demand? you buy something that u need...so dose everyone else sooo the demand of something is high depending on supply determains the price of the item....thats why something that everyone has (example sigons set) really if u think about it...its really always in demand (even more for ladder characters) but yet the supply is so high that is why its considered "useless" its really not "useless i think prolly sigons sets is one of the most used sets besides like ik and tals. prices are always determained by the supply AND demand. soooo in this class today today we learned it dosnt matter really about the demand more than the supply the higher the supply the lower it will costs because people are trying to get rid of their supply. it just depends on the supply and demand on the item. if noone has the demand of what someone wants then the price rises if theres to much supply the price dropes got it? bahh
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question: Any info about how the trade system will work? Will there be a complete system where we won't rely on forums or set up trade games?
@diablo: Not yet, but it's something we're deeply involved in developing.
I wasn't aware that this was in the works.. that's awesome! Any ideas of what it would be? Similar to the auction house? That would definitely force gold to be a real currency.
And I agree that an auction house like system would be sweet
Possibly. Or they could implement it in a patch after the beta launches, since it's probably going to be a battle.net feature.
Too many assumptions, i know, but that's all we got for now. It's a good thing they're working on it, though.
"Except real money trading has always been present in Diablo 2. Except now it's going to be officially supported which will reduce scams, prevent the funding of the black market so your kids will no longer be exposed to dangerous life ruining drugs like the cancer causing marijuana."
"Except real money trading has always been present in Diablo 2. Except now it's going to be officially supported which will reduce scams, prevent the funding of the black market so your kids will no longer be exposed to dangerous life ruining drugs like the cancer causing marijuana."
Blizzard should definetly improve on the trading feature, and use a different approach compared to other rpg games.
On the side note, I hope there is some feature where we are able to trade without much hassle.
I personally cant any think of good idea to do this, but "Global Market" sounds just way too dumb and doesnt fit the style of Diablo 2 theme. D3 is not WoW...
You have to remember diablo 2 is a co-op game and you wont come across 100000000 fellow fighters all at once. [Which is what Global market entails]..
With an AH, we can see prices so we have a ground for saying, no, that price is outrageous. We can see our options. We can get trades done faster because people who want what you have will be able to search for it with ease.
If this could be accessed at any time, whether ingame or not, it would be that much better. That way if you're levelling, you won't be missing out on the trade action. A complimentary peer-to-peer trading function for ingame purposes would still have to go alongside it, though.
Wow, touche' sir. I'm convinced, here's hoping for a AH! :thumbsup:
Well said.
1) It makes items subject to deflation. In turn, that encourages the implementation of mechanics that combat inflation, such as decreasing drop rates and bind-on-equip. In a game like Diablo, inflation is inevitable since items are continuously being generated. Mechanics that combat inflation only delay the proliferation of the market and are punitive to players.
2) Acquiring items becomes a function of supply and demand. All other ways to acquire items (drops, crafting, shopping) are based on random generation - each item has a fixed probability to drop which remains constant. Therefore, to control item rarity, you have to manage drop probability, supply, and demand. Managing supply requires balancing drop rates according to the number of players per region (undesirable) and managing demand requires nerfing items or introducting better items to replace those that have saturated the market. Both of those conditions existed in Diablo 2 and are evidence of a poor system: impossible drop rates (high runes, elite uniques, and good rares/crafts) as well as the introduction of increasingly powerful items to absurdity.
Diablo 3 should have a unified trade system that uses fixed pricing that is based upon an item's drop probability and power. That ensures that, using an intermediate currency, players exchange items of equal value. It also means that players don't have to become familiar with a region-wide economy or playing e-bay on Diablo, allowing them to focus on what they should be - killing demons.
Sure it's just a "store"; you could call the Auction House the same thing (eBay is a store too).
You assume the the economics will "stabilize themselves" - how exactly?
A hypothetical market does not demonstrate anything. In other words, if you just make up scenarios of item A, B, and C, it reflects nothing about how a market will actually operate. If item A "vanishes out of the game", how is that stable? In a market with supply and demand, the price of item A is not a function of items B and C, therefore what you are describing ("you can now calculate it's raw value by determining the price of item A") is not a market based upon supply and demand.
Situation A: Game is brand new (or a new expansion, new patch), and you find the first "Sword of Tyrael". You realize it's a great item, but since you're a Demon Hunter, you opt to sell it. Now you can either go to the auction house and sell it for 100g, or you can try and sell it outside of the trade system for 200g. D2jsp is already there and ready to pick up D3 I'll wager, and if not, it won't be long before tons of other sites realize the potential that D3's faulty system presents.
You may argue that most people won't realize this at first. And you're right, right at launch people probably won't realize there are alternatives. But give it a few months and we'll see what happens.
Situation B: It's been two years, and people have suddenly realized that a "Tempered Sword" is great for a dual-wielding barbarian. Blizzard however thought it would suck, so they set the price in the "AH" at 10g, so everyone who finds one will try to sell it in other channels (like forums/public chat) for 100g. Ergo no one will use the trade system.
But wait you say, it's easy for Blizzard to fix that! Just adjust the price! Yes, that one item it's real easy. But whenever drop rates are adjusted, skills balanced, new item introduced etc, the system will be affected, and Blizzard will have to actively monitor what sells for what. This will have to be done manually by lots of employees circling trade forums outside of the game to keep track of what's going on. Much simpler is to simply let the market handle it.
The whole point is that point is that any economic system is subject to constant change, and only by letting the market handle it can you achieve any form of balance. Only then can you actually have supply meet demand, which is preferable.
Your suggestion still won't stop the inflation of items, because fixed prices in the AH does not in any way affect drop rates. Which is the real culprit here, and an unavoidable evil in a system that keeps generating items but never removes them.
You cannot escape that fact. No matter what trade system you propose, D3 is not an isolated economy. Had it been, your suggestion might have worked somewhat, but the fact is that every last player will have access to the internet. And they will be able to trade outside of the game if Blizzard does not provide a superior service. D2 stands testament to that.
Which I'm sure sounds great from a D2 perspective. But consider that there will be millions of players. If you put up an item, and get 500 bids with varying randomized items, how can you possible make a correct assessment in what is worth what? You'll go through the first 50, pick the best of those, and ignore the test. And the other 10 items you want to sell will have similar turnouts. You cannot filter that information. This is why gold is so crucial, because an AH system based on gold will automatically filter all bids for you and give you the most profitable one. And all you have to do is press one button.