Which is alot of fun I might add, but I've noticed alot of things.(I never followed torchlights development.. I don't even know when it was started).. but did torchlight copy D3 or is D3 copying torchlight? There is alot of things, such as the screen shake when you attack monsters.(Which is pretty boss btw), the new hotbar/tab switching between 2 spells on your right click.. Auto pickup gold and hell, even some enviroment effects(If you hit a monster next to a cliff, they will get shot off the side and break things)
The levels also look familiar to the very first D3 video we saw of the barbarian, among many other things I probably never noticed.(Enchantments?)
Be logic, who was first? Diablo franchise and WoW? Or Torchlight.
There you will find your obvious answer.
Obviously diablo came before torchlight, however, all the features I listed will only appear in D3 as they weren't in D1 or D2(as far as I know).. So what came first, torchlight's development or D3's announcments? I dunno, that's why I'm asking.
Well two(? I believe.) of the creators of Diablo 1 and 2 made Torchlight. So it may have something to do with it. Maybe in torchlight there's alot of features that the Diablo-Makers wanted to put in D3.. well the first D3, before it got rebooted and they got fired or whatever happened, and maybe blizzard kept alot of the concept, if not all, of what they wanted to create at first. So yeah.. It would kinda make sense if both games are very similar and also if both beginning-dungeons seem like it's the same place almost.
man I wish all the old Diablo-makers would come back to Blizzard.. I'd be so much less worried about the development of D3 if it was in their hands.
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Second, it is really more based on "Fate", and has a bunch of people from that team, including the lead.
Third, the former Blizzard people on the project are the Schaefer brothers (founders and designers of Blizzard North), Peter Hu (mastermind of the last good D2 patch six years ago), and Matt Uelman, music and sound guy.
Torchlight is simply a D2 clone with added elements of other games (mainly WoW).
The way these features developed is:
Diablo 1 -> Diablo 2 -> WoW (D2+Wc3 in a giant blender) -> D3
Diablo 3 has elements of both WoW and Diablo 2. (Don't mistake my poor example and think that there is wc3 in d3, there is not.)
Torchlight has elements of both WoW and Diablo 2.
how the hell is wow a "d2+wc3 giant blender" when it's most important features never showed up in none of those games ?
WoW is a "western mmo giant blender" with tons of inovation in network and service areas. D2 has close to none relevance to WoW despite what blizzard tries to say to please the diablo crowd.
D2 has close to none relevance to WoW despite what blizzard tries to say to please the diablo crowd.
Ital, maybe you aren't old enough to remember the games scene circa '99, so some of the design innovations of that time are blurred. WoW, as of launch, took all of its core character progression design and item design from D2. D2 was just a good enough design that we don't remember how innovative it was in those regards. People who were around then will almost universally tell you that WoW was just D2 at 1/10 the speed in an MMO format.
If I'm not mistaken, before the split-up, there were still a lot of plans for Diablo III. Dunno how many of them carried over, but seeing as Torchlight was shown before (or about the same time as) the announcement of Diablo III (*I believe*), they would not have had time to develop the entire game from scratch based on a single announcement and a handful of demonstrations and one cinematic. So, I think it was just a case of some of the staff of Torchlight coming from the old Diablo team, just before the split-up, when they had some plans ready for Diablo III, and possibly a list of things that they never got to implement in I or II.
D2 has close to none relevance to WoW despite what blizzard tries to say to please the diablo crowd.
Ital, maybe you aren't old enough to remember the games scene circa '99, so some of the design innovations of that time are blurred. WoW, as of launch, took all of its core character progression design and item design from D2. D2 was just a good enough design that we don't remember how innovative it was in those regards. People who were around then will almost universally tell you that WoW was just D2 at 1/10 the speed in an MMO format.
Yes i'm old enough to tell you i disagree with you and all people who said such things.
I could list every single wow feature and tell you from where it came from, but I won't because it would be too off topic (i'm already off topic enough =/).
But the two possible diablo influences in wow are: items rarity (and it's not even diablo! older games already have the diablo cathegory of items. As far as i kno, DnD created item progression. So it's not a Diablo influence it's a DnD influence!).
A more expressive one is the skill system. D2 most inovating and important feature.
Now, you tell me "WoW is Diablo at 1/10 speed in an MMO format" because character have a skill tree ? The gameplay, the way players interect with monsters, the way players interact with each other, the role of items, the PvP, the economy, every IMPORTANT WoW feature is inspired in others mmos, not blizz previews games.
Some people say WoW is a mmo diablo because they enver played older MMOs.
Obviously, EQ was a huge influence. But I think you would agree that the things that made WoW a different, much better and more accessible game, in terms of game design (and not lore and art), came from D2.
from my experience with MMORPGs WoW was the most fast paced MMO out by the time of its release, only to be challenged by Warhammer Online (a couple of years now?) and Age of Conan.
Talent trees were taken from Diablo 2 by every developer that made RPGs (with the exception of Gothic i think)
faster paced combat (more instant abilities, multiple enemy fighting, even when questing solo etc) was inspired by their Diablo series. Of course the fact that it's MMO doesnt make it possible for it to be as fast paced as Diablo. i remember playing EQ2 and having to carefully pull one by one mobs, especially at lower levels (Age of Conan on the other hand was pure massacre from early on, was interesting).
anyway, it doesnt really matter which game got which feature from who but how they were implemented.
Torchlight is an interesting game, no doubt, but not even close to Diablo 3 in matters of graphics, story, playable characters and enemies (for all we know). Blizzard never tried to re-invent the wheel and they said so too.
Torchlight is simply a D2 clone with added elements of other games (mainly WoW).
The way these features developed is:
Diablo 1 -> Diablo 2 -> WoW (D2+Wc3 in a giant blender) -> D3
Diablo 3 has elements of both WoW and Diablo 2. (Don't mistake my poor example and think that there is wc3 in d3, there is not.)
Torchlight has elements of both WoW and Diablo 2.
how the hell is wow a "d2+wc3 giant blender" when it's most important features never showed up in none of those games ?
WoW is a "western mmo giant blender" with tons of inovation in network and service areas. D2 has close to none relevance to WoW despite what blizzard tries to say to please the diablo crowd.
That is false wow took alot of things from diablo and diablo 2 and implimented them into the game so really alot of blizzard games are ethier A. Star craft or B. diablo. almost every game they make they take something from thoses two games. plain and simple
Instead of saying "WoW has alot of Diablo element" people could start list those elements and use real arguments.
"You know, WoW is just a mmorpg version of super mario 64, there are alot of similar elements between those two games". See, it's easy !
And i'm not a WoW hardcore fan, i'm a fan of old schools MMOs (specially UO, Lineage and EQ), the games that really influenced WoW.
I've been playing Torchlight recently and all I can really say is that it brings back a little nostalgia of D2 for me. But that is about it. Its like a graphically updated version of D2 and D1 combined. If you go to town the music there is very(and I mean very) similar to Tristram from D1.
I do have to say I am enjoying running through the game though. I only play around 2 hours every other day, if that, and I tend to swap between the 3 classes a bunch trying to go through the game with all 3 at the same time. I have a really good feeling that once I run through the game 1 time I will not be playing it again. So I am getting as much out of it as possible.
If you got it on Steam for $5 like I did then it is well worth it. Just don't expect a game that will allow for replayability.
I'll be honest, if Torchlight had something akin to Battle.Net, ie some form of multiplayer, Torchlight would of done much better, and would give Diablo 3 a run for it's money. However, sense Runic Games cannot really afford a Battle.Net type system, you got what you have today.
I say this as honest as I can, Torchlight needs multiplayer if Runic Games (Or what I call, New Condor) wants the game to last more then a year or two. Hopefully they patch something into it.
*Gets his flame proof shield ready.* Alright, I'm ready.
You should try it. Then play single player Diablo 2. If you are not blinded by fanboyism, you will see they are very very similar, with Torchlight actually having more in town, and with the "never ending dungeon" in the south, something Diablo also didn't have.
D2 and Torchlight are very very similar, granted we can expect that as the guys who made Torchlight also worked on D2.
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The levels also look familiar to the very first D3 video we saw of the barbarian, among many other things I probably never noticed.(Enchantments?)
So, anyone know the story?
Obviously diablo came before torchlight, however, all the features I listed will only appear in D3 as they weren't in D1 or D2(as far as I know).. So what came first, torchlight's development or D3's announcments? I dunno, that's why I'm asking.
man I wish all the old Diablo-makers would come back to Blizzard.. I'd be so much less worried about the development of D3 if it was in their hands.
Embrace this moment. Remember...
We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion.
First, TL has its own directory on this site: http://www.diablofans.com/forum/56-torchlight-general-discussion/
Second, it is really more based on "Fate", and has a bunch of people from that team, including the lead.
Third, the former Blizzard people on the project are the Schaefer brothers (founders and designers of Blizzard North), Peter Hu (mastermind of the last good D2 patch six years ago), and Matt Uelman, music and sound guy.
how the hell is wow a "d2+wc3 giant blender" when it's most important features never showed up in none of those games ?
WoW is a "western mmo giant blender" with tons of inovation in network and service areas. D2 has close to none relevance to WoW despite what blizzard tries to say to please the diablo crowd.
Ital, maybe you aren't old enough to remember the games scene circa '99, so some of the design innovations of that time are blurred. WoW, as of launch, took all of its core character progression design and item design from D2. D2 was just a good enough design that we don't remember how innovative it was in those regards. People who were around then will almost universally tell you that WoW was just D2 at 1/10 the speed in an MMO format.
Yes i'm old enough to tell you i disagree with you and all people who said such things.
I could list every single wow feature and tell you from where it came from, but I won't because it would be too off topic (i'm already off topic enough =/).
But the two possible diablo influences in wow are: items rarity (and it's not even diablo! older games already have the diablo cathegory of items. As far as i kno, DnD created item progression. So it's not a Diablo influence it's a DnD influence!).
A more expressive one is the skill system. D2 most inovating and important feature.
Now, you tell me "WoW is Diablo at 1/10 speed in an MMO format" because character have a skill tree ? The gameplay, the way players interect with monsters, the way players interact with each other, the role of items, the PvP, the economy, every IMPORTANT WoW feature is inspired in others mmos, not blizz previews games.
Some people say WoW is a mmo diablo because they enver played older MMOs.
Talent trees were taken from Diablo 2 by every developer that made RPGs (with the exception of Gothic i think)
faster paced combat (more instant abilities, multiple enemy fighting, even when questing solo etc) was inspired by their Diablo series. Of course the fact that it's MMO doesnt make it possible for it to be as fast paced as Diablo. i remember playing EQ2 and having to carefully pull one by one mobs, especially at lower levels (Age of Conan on the other hand was pure massacre from early on, was interesting).
anyway, it doesnt really matter which game got which feature from who but how they were implemented.
Torchlight is an interesting game, no doubt, but not even close to Diablo 3 in matters of graphics, story, playable characters and enemies (for all we know). Blizzard never tried to re-invent the wheel and they said so too.
That is false wow took alot of things from diablo and diablo 2 and implimented them into the game so really alot of blizzard games are ethier A. Star craft or B. diablo. almost every game they make they take something from thoses two games. plain and simple
~Mike~
"You know, WoW is just a mmorpg version of super mario 64, there are alot of similar elements between those two games". See, it's easy !
And i'm not a WoW hardcore fan, i'm a fan of old schools MMOs (specially UO, Lineage and EQ), the games that really influenced WoW.
Also, WoW took alot of it's ideas from Pacman! It's really just a big Pacman mmo. (That WAS easy, wasn't it? )
Let us know when you and your friends can scrape together five bucks during a steam sale and can actually play it.
I do have to say I am enjoying running through the game though. I only play around 2 hours every other day, if that, and I tend to swap between the 3 classes a bunch trying to go through the game with all 3 at the same time. I have a really good feeling that once I run through the game 1 time I will not be playing it again. So I am getting as much out of it as possible.
If you got it on Steam for $5 like I did then it is well worth it. Just don't expect a game that will allow for replayability.
I say this as honest as I can, Torchlight needs multiplayer if Runic Games (Or what I call, New Condor) wants the game to last more then a year or two. Hopefully they patch something into it.
*Gets his flame proof shield ready.* Alright, I'm ready.
D2 and Torchlight are very very similar, granted we can expect that as the guys who made Torchlight also worked on D2.