After watching the Debut Gameplay Trailer again with the battle between the Siegebreaker Assault Beast and four characters, the Siegebreaker seems attack the closest character in range. There isn’t a threat system which tells the enemy what to attack but what I do hope Diablo 3 will have is smarter AI e.g. attacking the character that has the lowest health or cornering a character so that they won’t be able to get out.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Ahem. There's SAND on my boots." Kefka, Final Fantasy VI
I feel a complex system with aggro is better suited with longer fights in MMO's. I do hope they have something other than just closest target though. Focusing on the character with the lowest HP would suck though. Mainly because they would then stay the person with the lowest since they are being targeted. At least have them randomize their target every once in awhile would be good. Along with this, I hope the AI of allies (mercs/pets) is better as well.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find any Diablo news? Contact me or anyone else on the News team
Nevermind bosses, a lot of random enemies could also pick target at times. I don't see whats the problem is some monster focusing on the sorcerer behind all of a sudden, unless he gets hit a few times by someone else and then he's back to attacking whomever is the closest
There could be a lot of slight AI variations that don't have anything to do with an actual threat table. A fast monster can decide to fall back, circle around and pick another target randomly.
-All- classes are designed for single player, therefore everyone in multiplayer should have to deal with monsters targeting them.
Yes, all classes are dps and designed to be able to solo enemies in single player. As long as the AI isn't overly clever. The AI actually doesn't have to be clever at all, only different to create unique battles. Flayers surrounds all enemies, Fallens (imps) attack as a wall, etc. Different AI creates different challenges. Bashiok mentioned the teleporting champion monster that was extremely difficult for certain melee builds to handle, but is no challenge for the nuking Wizard.
agreed, Also jay wilson said him self in video that the AI cant be to smart because then it dosent work right. He said thats one thing they figured out that the more simpiler the monster have alot of different ones but all doing something different (like diablo 2) thats why they want SOOO many types and different monsters they all do 1-2 maybe 3 things but there are 5 different monsters in one group and all doing something different (exp 5 different monsters with 3 different skills/attacks meaning 15 differnt skills/attacks just in one little group). But yes I do want them a little smarter to make things harder
Well i know this is just a game but if i was in a fight with 3 ppl the closest is going to get hit I dont find this unrealistic at all as for the cornered bit I agree if a Boss or a group of mobs can force u into a position to slay you that would be cool, mobs working together to corner you would be a real threat in Hardcore and another reason to think about battles before u jump in head 1st!
I like the idea, but there a couple problems in your hopes.
One, enemy AI is such a hard system to comebuy. You'll have to create all the possible scenarios and tell the computer how to react. It also creates a lot of bugs with enemies which you see a lot that enemies just stand there and don't do anything.
Another problem is the pack problem. If you have a pack of monsters, you have to chance the entire idea of the AI. Does it stay a as a pack or separate to kill individuals? And having skills like "confuse" won't help either. Plus the scale of Diablo 3 will over complicate things too.
People always underestimate what can be done with AI, like its some kind of non-sense mystery that cannot be handled properly and primitive AI is all we'll ever get.
I've seen wonderful AIs for a long time in more complex games. Sometimes, I'm sure you see too many variables when the AI doesn't have to care about all of them. Anyway, just saying that there is nothing unrealistic here.
I just hope strategy and tactics need to be used more than just PEW PEW BOOOM like in D1 and 2
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
www.myspace.com/mpotatoes for all your Trans Siberian Orchestra listening pleasure
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
I'm 100% noob in all this AI and programming stuff.
But i've saw games with really smart monsters... I don't think the AI ust be a genius, just some really basics like avoid attacks/spells, attack player based at a certain criteria, use the spells in the "right" time, etc.
The monster archetypes defined in last blizz was something that gave me high hopes about the monster design in D3. Simple stuff like the "temporary invulnerability" of the whirlwind devil and the "enrage timer" of the cultists can potentially bring more startegy to the series.
You can't heal up mid-boss-fight, so they'll need to send lots of crap at you so you a) don't die, or disregard the fodder and still attack the boss and die quicker.
Pretty lame, the first thing I ever heard about D3 was how the AI is going to be so magnificent,
a boss ALWAYS targeting the closest attacker? pretty lame
I JUST WANT TO GET TOTALLY PWNZORED WHEN I PLAY DIABLO3!!!!!! I WANT THE ZOMBIES TO 1 SHOT ME TO DEATH AND I WANT IT TO BE SUPER HARD THAT I THROW MY COMPUTER OUT THE WINDOW IN FRUSTRATION!!! Thats me idk about you.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
www.myspace.com/mpotatoes for all your Trans Siberian Orchestra listening pleasure
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
I JUST WANT TO GET TOTALLY PWNZORED WHEN I PLAY DIABLO3!!!!!! I WANT THE ZOMBIES TO 1 SHOT ME TO DEATH AND I WANT IT TO BE SUPER HARD THAT I THROW MY COMPUTER OUT THE WINDOW IN FRUSTRATION!!! Thats me idk about you.
I agree, I want a challenge. I want smarter enemies that also have different weapons/abilities when they attack. I want to use my brain when I'm playing a action/adventure rpg, rather than just rush in and click you know? I want to come up with my own tactics to take my enemies down. And yes, bring on the surrounding, flanking, cornering, etc. Anything to make the game better
Can't wait!!! AHHHHHH! I'm going nuts! One more year!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"So you have come here for information? I have some for you..."
I agree Im hoping the enemys will be smarter and tougher. I'm keeping my fingers crossed lol
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
www.myspace.com/mpotatoes for all your Trans Siberian Orchestra listening pleasure
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
It's very likely that the AI will be vary intelligent.
I say this in comparison with the videos I have seen lately.
All the gameplay footage at last years blizzcon and the gameplay given out by Blizzard have
shown me that the AI are VERY intelligent...
Watch the videos closely, you'll see that the smart AI stay back and away from danger while sending in
the grunts (stupid AI aka cannon fodder) to their deaths.
The smarter AI vary from place to place, some are smarter than others in ways of attacking.
When all the grunts are dead, the smart AI make thier rush at you, and end up getting killed.
Rather dramatic eh? This is a very cool little thing to point out.
Watch for it next time you watch the vids.
The cultists try hard to stay away OR transform into a Demonic entity. (Stronger)
Its a very strategic game, a very challenging game, unique in what skills are needed to get the job done.
I love it, I cannot wait much longer.
Im in need of some INFO SOOOON.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
<--Click the Egg!
Or else!!! ̿ ̿̿’̿’\̵͇̿̿\з==(•̪●)==ε/̵͇̿̿/’̿’̿ ̿ ̿̿
I would like to see some very hard fights especially whit bosses, i mean in order to kill the boss you have to find out what is his week spot - spell skill combo in the right moment.
I like this thought. It reminds me of House of the Dead where the bosses flash a spot on their body and you have a limited time to shoot it and do damage to them. I think if Blizzard can implement a boss that is invulnerable but has a 3-4 second phase where it is vulnerable, this would be a boss I would love to tangle.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Ahem. There's SAND on my boots." Kefka, Final Fantasy VI
Well, I don't want them to all be intelligent, that would just be obnoxious. I'm going to make an imaginary level tree for enemies: with skeletons and fallen being on the lowest end of he tree. These guys should be total idiots and just attack you on contact if they are there alone. But! if there is some sort of shaman that is guiding them, then maybe they would attack in hordes and do their best to weaken you or lead you into more danger and traps.
The way I imagine it, is that each monster (going up the tree of strength and rank) should have a more complex AI that allows him to attack someone in a smart way. For instance, if there is a goatman (forgot their names :o) and he is alone, and he spots you in his range, he'll sound a horn or something and a stampede of many goatman will charge at you.
But if there is a leader monster like a shaman or champion, then the minions should do their best to protect him. We all know that the first one to die should be a shaman. To make it harder, the minions will get in your way to protect their master.
It might also be interesting if we'd see a rogue monster here and there, and when you approach him, he's realize that he's outmatched and run back to his group. Each monster should have a "personality". Strong opponents might try to take you on alone, while weaker ones fear you unless they're in packs.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Not Even Death Can Save You From Me" ~ Diablo (II)
I want them to be intelligent, but not so intelligent that tactics won't work against them. I
I like the overall observations in your post. It's my opinion that computer intelligence is directly proportional to the necessity of tactics. Take the extreme cases: If the enemies have no AI, they never adapt to their enemies (you), and every single mob is killed with only one method: the easiest (and thus most boring). But if the enemies adapt to your tactics, you then have to "think deeper" into the fight. That's where things like positioning, feigns, specific targeting, and tanking techniques apply.. your initial tactic triggers an adaptive counter from the AI, which you must counter with a tactical adaptation, which the AI could counter, and so on..
Ok I just explained your point to myself.. If the AI is TOO adaptive, the player/group tactics will ultimately break down. I know this well from being main-tank in a large WoW guild. The AI has to be smart but still be predictable, otherwise chaos will reign and luck will be too much of a determining factor in large-scale and/or important fights. And I have NO interest in having 15-minute strategy discussions before boss fights, I spent enough of my youth doing that in WoW.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions."
-Thomas Jefferson
Ah so lower enemies get lower intelligence and therefore not as likely to sway from their usual 'run up and hit you' tactic... Unless they have a shaman or cultist or whatever guiding them. Hmm... that could work quite well. Be a nice mix.
Hopefully all the enemies physically attack differently than others; the depth that would be easily created
I agree Dolalim, no one wants to talk that long about how to take down a boss, just basics, and keeping the game fun, full of enemies and fast paced. Hopefully that's target. But as long as the enemies just don't fight on one side of you all the time. Like DI and DII. One of two could slip behind or take their time rushing you or flank you etc. Just not the whole pack at once
DarkMagicc is right on with his first post.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"So you have come here for information? I have some for you..."
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Kefka, Final Fantasy VI
Find any Diablo news? Contact me or anyone else on the News team
There could be a lot of slight AI variations that don't have anything to do with an actual threat table. A fast monster can decide to fall back, circle around and pick another target randomly.
-All- classes are designed for single player, therefore everyone in multiplayer should have to deal with monsters targeting them.
One, enemy AI is such a hard system to comebuy. You'll have to create all the possible scenarios and tell the computer how to react. It also creates a lot of bugs with enemies which you see a lot that enemies just stand there and don't do anything.
Another problem is the pack problem. If you have a pack of monsters, you have to chance the entire idea of the AI. Does it stay a as a pack or separate to kill individuals? And having skills like "confuse" won't help either. Plus the scale of Diablo 3 will over complicate things too.
All in all, expect what you see in Diablo 2.
I've seen wonderful AIs for a long time in more complex games. Sometimes, I'm sure you see too many variables when the AI doesn't have to care about all of them. Anyway, just saying that there is nothing unrealistic here.
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
But i've saw games with really smart monsters... I don't think the AI ust be a genius, just some really basics like avoid attacks/spells, attack player based at a certain criteria, use the spells in the "right" time, etc.
The monster archetypes defined in last blizz was something that gave me high hopes about the monster design in D3. Simple stuff like the "temporary invulnerability" of the whirlwind devil and the "enrage timer" of the cultists can potentially bring more startegy to the series.
b ) is a smiley with shades? ... alright
a boss ALWAYS targeting the closest attacker? pretty lame
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
I agree, I want a challenge. I want smarter enemies that also have different weapons/abilities when they attack. I want to use my brain when I'm playing a action/adventure rpg, rather than just rush in and click you know? I want to come up with my own tactics to take my enemies down. And yes, bring on the surrounding, flanking, cornering, etc. Anything to make the game better
Can't wait!!! AHHHHHH! I'm going nuts! One more year!
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
I say this in comparison with the videos I have seen lately.
All the gameplay footage at last years blizzcon and the gameplay given out by Blizzard have
shown me that the AI are VERY intelligent...
Watch the videos closely, you'll see that the smart AI stay back and away from danger while sending in
the grunts (stupid AI aka cannon fodder) to their deaths.
The smarter AI vary from place to place, some are smarter than others in ways of attacking.
When all the grunts are dead, the smart AI make thier rush at you, and end up getting killed.
Rather dramatic eh? This is a very cool little thing to point out.
Watch for it next time you watch the vids.
The cultists try hard to stay away OR transform into a Demonic entity. (Stronger)
Its a very strategic game, a very challenging game, unique in what skills are needed to get the job done.
I love it, I cannot wait much longer.
Im in need of some INFO SOOOON.
Or else!!! ̿ ̿̿’̿’\̵͇̿̿\з==(•̪●)==ε/̵͇̿̿/’̿’̿ ̿ ̿̿
I like this thought. It reminds me of House of the Dead where the bosses flash a spot on their body and you have a limited time to shoot it and do damage to them. I think if Blizzard can implement a boss that is invulnerable but has a 3-4 second phase where it is vulnerable, this would be a boss I would love to tangle.
Kefka, Final Fantasy VI
Well, I don't want them to all be intelligent, that would just be obnoxious. I'm going to make an imaginary level tree for enemies: with skeletons and fallen being on the lowest end of he tree. These guys should be total idiots and just attack you on contact if they are there alone. But! if there is some sort of shaman that is guiding them, then maybe they would attack in hordes and do their best to weaken you or lead you into more danger and traps.
The way I imagine it, is that each monster (going up the tree of strength and rank) should have a more complex AI that allows him to attack someone in a smart way. For instance, if there is a goatman (forgot their names :o) and he is alone, and he spots you in his range, he'll sound a horn or something and a stampede of many goatman will charge at you.
But if there is a leader monster like a shaman or champion, then the minions should do their best to protect him. We all know that the first one to die should be a shaman. To make it harder, the minions will get in your way to protect their master.
It might also be interesting if we'd see a rogue monster here and there, and when you approach him, he's realize that he's outmatched and run back to his group. Each monster should have a "personality". Strong opponents might try to take you on alone, while weaker ones fear you unless they're in packs.
Well, it was pretty fun in nazi zombies in Cod
I like the overall observations in your post. It's my opinion that computer intelligence is directly proportional to the necessity of tactics. Take the extreme cases: If the enemies have no AI, they never adapt to their enemies (you), and every single mob is killed with only one method: the easiest (and thus most boring). But if the enemies adapt to your tactics, you then have to "think deeper" into the fight. That's where things like positioning, feigns, specific targeting, and tanking techniques apply.. your initial tactic triggers an adaptive counter from the AI, which you must counter with a tactical adaptation, which the AI could counter, and so on..
Ok I just explained your point to myself.. If the AI is TOO adaptive, the player/group tactics will ultimately break down. I know this well from being main-tank in a large WoW guild. The AI has to be smart but still be predictable, otherwise chaos will reign and luck will be too much of a determining factor in large-scale and/or important fights. And I have NO interest in having 15-minute strategy discussions before boss fights, I spent enough of my youth doing that in WoW.
-Thomas Jefferson
Hopefully all the enemies physically attack differently than others; the depth that would be easily created
I agree Dolalim, no one wants to talk that long about how to take down a boss, just basics, and keeping the game fun, full of enemies and fast paced. Hopefully that's target. But as long as the enemies just don't fight on one side of you all the time. Like DI and DII. One of two could slip behind or take their time rushing you or flank you etc. Just not the whole pack at once
DarkMagicc is right on with his first post.