...I welcome pretty much any changes that Blizzard brings.
I'll admit, at first I was skeptical about several things, such as the removal of stats, and the art direction. The last set of gameplay videos that came out, which featured the monk in desert environments, showed me an awesome art direction that has been improved since the very first diablo 3 trailer. Sand blowing everywhere, a "dark" atmosphere even in the middle of the desert, it looked excellent.
They are staying true to the series and keeping the things that truly define Diablo as a series... Isometric view, tons of monsters on the screen getting destroyed, tons of loot, random generation of monsters and areas, etc.
It's been over a year since I played Diablo 2 in a serious way, and I've had a lot of time to read and think over the changes the devs are making for Diablo 3. I started up D2 again on Tuesday when the patch came out, almost 10 years after D2 came out, and you can see how deeply flawed the game is and has always been.
Respecs were introduced, and I am having a much more fun time building my characters. I no longer have to spend 2 hours doing math and trying to figure out the perfect stats before I even CREATE my character. This brought to light the fact that I absolutely hate spending stat points. It adds nothing to the game, all it does is stress you out over whether you're ruining your character or not. Along these same lines, there are so many skills in Diablo 2 that are absolutely useless beyond Nightmare difficulty. As far as I'm concerned, do away with skill trees altogether and give me that pool system that is being suggested.
Potions, Immunities. Nothing but gimmicks that were introduced to the series as a false sense of "difficulty". Give me some real, challenging monsters that aren't just blobs of health that I can't use any of my spells on because they are immune to fire. In Diablo 2, it almost feels like you're fighting the same things over and over, just with different skins.
Maybe it's because Diablo 2 is so old, and it's finally showing its age, but I am starting to really see the vision of the Diablo 3 developers. They want to keep the parts in Diablo 3 that make it a Diablo game, while reworking these old worn out systems in the game that limit it and prevent the Diablo series from reaching its maximum potential of fun.
Amen. I couldn't agree more. Not to sound like a tool, but I've had little trepidation over any of the new directions the devs are taking with D3. Some things just sound crazy at first perhaps, but I trust Blizz because they've never put out a bad game, and they've never announced a major mechanic change I didn't understand / agree with / look forward to.
I'm still unsure of whether I agree on the stats bit, but other points, yes!
Stats would be ok if they were tooled differently... but in a min/max world most of us live in, it would end up what it is now... People would figure out the formula and would be "Put X in this stat, and the rest in that stat", in which case, a computer might as well be doing it, anyway. Just like now with D2, it almost always ends up being: "Put enough in STR to wear what you need to wear, then put the rest in VIT" or whatever.
Exactly. The people that whine about 'losing customization' are the same ones to give you a blank stare when you ask them how much 'variation' there is among stats between any two Sorcs in D2.
The mechanic doesn't work. Blizzard said they realize this and are removing it and replacing it with a system that will not only offer actual customization, but customization that's more fun to play with.
Exactly. The people that whine about 'losing customization' are the same ones to give you a blank stare when you ask them how much 'variation' there is among stats between any two Sorcs in D2.
Kinda funny you mention sorcs, considering sorcs are actually the most variable. I've seen vitality sorcs, max es/energy sorcs, and everythig inbetween from 1 hard point in es to 1 point away from 95% with varying stat points into vitality and energy. I've also seen max block and 0 dex variations of each, so when you add them up theres actually quite a bit of variation amongst sorcs.
Otherwise though, as a general rule of thumb it boils down to max block or max vitality builds. Even if there were no variation/deviations from this rule, autostatting in d2 would have effectively removed 1/2 of the possible builds.
I'm not saying the d2 stat system was perfect, but I do think autostatting is just taking the lazy way out when so much more could be done just by balancing stats a little better. Energy, for example, was for the most part a waste of points. However, in d3, potions are gone, so that alone makes energy a boatload more useful. Even in a worst case scenario, if the stat system was identicle to d2, i'd still rather see max block, max vitality, a few specialty builds, and a few noobs whining over how they messed then character up(which they'd probably have respecs anyhow), rather then everyone actually being identicle.
The mechanic doesn't work. Blizzard said they realize this and are removing it and replacing it with a system that will not only offer actual customization, but customization that's more fun to play with.
How exactly is forcing everyone to be identicle increasing customization?
Why fix a mechanic that's inherently flawed, or perhaps one might say inherently limited, instead of replacing this avenue of customization with an even more customizable / complex / rich mechanic? There's just no reason.
Edit: RE: 'forcing everyone to be identical'
This is the rhetoric of the knee-jerking 'OMG leave my stat points aloooone!!!' crowd. How do you (and the rest) fail to read and comprehend the following words: 'We're doing away with the stat point mechanic as a means of customization because it's a flawed mechanic, and replacing it with a different mechanic of CUSTOMIZATION'.
They've literally said they're going to employ other means by which players can customize their characters, to an even greater extent than stat point allocation allows.
How does that force everyone to be identical? Identical in 'x' perhaps, but they're replacing 'x' with 'y', so that people are much more diverse in 'y'.
In the worst possible scenario, we'll get the same level of customization in this way that we already do (read: not that much, if any), just in a different name. You're throwing a fit because they're calling it 'y' now instead of 'x'. Do you understand how silly that is?
How exactly is forcing everyone to be identicle increasing customization?
Read what you just quoted. Stat points are being removed IN FAVOR OF OTHER customization systems.
That doesn't = same characters.
How do you customize characters in Diablo 2? 3 ways, Skills, Stats, Gear.
Skills and Stats in Diablo 2 are EXTREMELY flawed in every way imaginable. What if they did away with both systems and added 4 in their place? I wouldn't complain about that. Or at the very least, remove both systems and implement 2 better customization systems in their place. It's still an upgrade over what we currently have.
I mean when I see someone complaining about stat points being removed, I just don't understand it anymore. Increasing your stats did NOTHING to improve the diablo games. Sure, it gave you something to do when you leveled up, but the only reason people are upset is because they are ASSUMING that there will ONLY be 2 customization systems total in D2: gear and skills. This couldn't be farther from the truth, there will be more systems. Just be patient.
I agree - Diablo III is going in the right direction. I played it at Blizzcon 2008 when it was in very early stages, and at that time it was amazing - and I believe it is even more amazing now.
In the worst possible scenario, we'll get the same level of customization in this way that we already do (read: not that much, if any), just in a different name. You're throwing a fit because they're calling it 'y' now instead of 'x'. Do you understand how silly that is?
Lolz now I'm throwing a fit? Apparently describing to you why I liked the d2 stat system and would rather have seen it improved upon rather then removed is throwing a fit?
Let's face it, in any rpg your going to have your number crunching min/maxxers, so if that was your gripe with stats, its going to exist regardless of what system, if any, it is replaced with. Seeing as to how min maxxers still failed to come up with a single perfect distribution, as there were always variations better for other purposes(example, max block better vs melee max vit better vis casters) I don't think the system was nearly as bad as those who don't fully understand it think it is.
Btw what systems are you so confident are going to add extreme customization to the game? So far it seems like they just have gear and skills...
Skills and Stats in Diablo 2 are EXTREMELY flawed in every way imaginable.
Did you even read what I posted? At the very least stats doubled the amount of possible builds in D2. How is a feature that effectively doubles the amount of builds you see EXTREMELY flawed in every way imaginable? I'll admit it wasn't perfect, but its obvious to me why you hated the system so much if you fail to even recognize any of the benefits it offered even after I described them for you.
Yeah, skill runes are going to be huge for customization. There are also at least two more systems that they haven't revealed yet. The talisman and something else that has never been hinted upon.
As for the stats, yes they were broken in D2. Hmmm... max block or everything into vitality. Yes it gave the players a choice of two different variations. That to me is a broken system considering there were four stats which should have lead to 24 variations.
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Exactly! They've already revealed more customization mechanics than anyone expected, and have more in the pipe, not to even mention the different resource systems. What they're gearing up for us a sense of individuality in each class that I'd think anyone would welcome.
Did you even read what I posted? At the very least stats doubled the amount of possible builds in D2.
Ok congrats, it doubled the amount of possible builds in Diablo 2. There will be a better system in Diablo 3 that increases the amount of builds even further. What's your point?
Stats in diablo 2 had nothing to do with a build really. It's all about skills for the most part. I don't walk around or see anyone walking around asking: "ah... max block... nice build", no it's all about the skills. If max block was never an option in diablo 2, do you think people would care today? No because stats are boring. That is the most basic form of customization I have ever seen because Diablo 2 was balanced so poorly.
People must stop thinking in D3 as a D2 expansion.
The autostats D3 have nothing to do with D2 failure in this area. The mechanics will be completly different, the equations to calculate everything will be different, everything about D2 balance in irrelevant.
The very reason why D3 will have autostats is because in their opnion, the player shouldn't start the game subject to choices that requires a preview knowledge of the game. They think they can achieve a good level of customisation with other features like gear, skill runes, etc... Features that don't put player in a situation that he must make a choice without the experience to do so.
It's a matter of friendlyness.
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"In time the hissing of her sanity
Faded out her voice and soiled her name
And like marked pages in a diary
Everything seemed clean that is unstained
The incoherent talk of ordinary days
Why would we really need to live?
Decide what is clear and what's within a haze
What you should take and what to give" - Opeth
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I'll admit, at first I was skeptical about several things, such as the removal of stats, and the art direction. The last set of gameplay videos that came out, which featured the monk in desert environments, showed me an awesome art direction that has been improved since the very first diablo 3 trailer. Sand blowing everywhere, a "dark" atmosphere even in the middle of the desert, it looked excellent.
They are staying true to the series and keeping the things that truly define Diablo as a series... Isometric view, tons of monsters on the screen getting destroyed, tons of loot, random generation of monsters and areas, etc.
It's been over a year since I played Diablo 2 in a serious way, and I've had a lot of time to read and think over the changes the devs are making for Diablo 3. I started up D2 again on Tuesday when the patch came out, almost 10 years after D2 came out, and you can see how deeply flawed the game is and has always been.
Respecs were introduced, and I am having a much more fun time building my characters. I no longer have to spend 2 hours doing math and trying to figure out the perfect stats before I even CREATE my character. This brought to light the fact that I absolutely hate spending stat points. It adds nothing to the game, all it does is stress you out over whether you're ruining your character or not. Along these same lines, there are so many skills in Diablo 2 that are absolutely useless beyond Nightmare difficulty. As far as I'm concerned, do away with skill trees altogether and give me that pool system that is being suggested.
Potions, Immunities. Nothing but gimmicks that were introduced to the series as a false sense of "difficulty". Give me some real, challenging monsters that aren't just blobs of health that I can't use any of my spells on because they are immune to fire. In Diablo 2, it almost feels like you're fighting the same things over and over, just with different skins.
Maybe it's because Diablo 2 is so old, and it's finally showing its age, but I am starting to really see the vision of the Diablo 3 developers. They want to keep the parts in Diablo 3 that make it a Diablo game, while reworking these old worn out systems in the game that limit it and prevent the Diablo series from reaching its maximum potential of fun.
Stats would be ok if they were tooled differently... but in a min/max world most of us live in, it would end up what it is now... People would figure out the formula and would be "Put X in this stat, and the rest in that stat", in which case, a computer might as well be doing it, anyway. Just like now with D2, it almost always ends up being: "Put enough in STR to wear what you need to wear, then put the rest in VIT" or whatever.
The mechanic doesn't work. Blizzard said they realize this and are removing it and replacing it with a system that will not only offer actual customization, but customization that's more fun to play with.
Sold.
Kinda funny you mention sorcs, considering sorcs are actually the most variable. I've seen vitality sorcs, max es/energy sorcs, and everythig inbetween from 1 hard point in es to 1 point away from 95% with varying stat points into vitality and energy. I've also seen max block and 0 dex variations of each, so when you add them up theres actually quite a bit of variation amongst sorcs.
Otherwise though, as a general rule of thumb it boils down to max block or max vitality builds. Even if there were no variation/deviations from this rule, autostatting in d2 would have effectively removed 1/2 of the possible builds.
I'm not saying the d2 stat system was perfect, but I do think autostatting is just taking the lazy way out when so much more could be done just by balancing stats a little better. Energy, for example, was for the most part a waste of points. However, in d3, potions are gone, so that alone makes energy a boatload more useful. Even in a worst case scenario, if the stat system was identicle to d2, i'd still rather see max block, max vitality, a few specialty builds, and a few noobs whining over how they messed then character up(which they'd probably have respecs anyhow), rather then everyone actually being identicle.
How exactly is forcing everyone to be identicle increasing customization?
Why fix a mechanic that's inherently flawed, or perhaps one might say inherently limited, instead of replacing this avenue of customization with an even more customizable / complex / rich mechanic? There's just no reason.
Edit: RE: 'forcing everyone to be identical'
This is the rhetoric of the knee-jerking 'OMG leave my stat points aloooone!!!' crowd. How do you (and the rest) fail to read and comprehend the following words: 'We're doing away with the stat point mechanic as a means of customization because it's a flawed mechanic, and replacing it with a different mechanic of CUSTOMIZATION'.
They've literally said they're going to employ other means by which players can customize their characters, to an even greater extent than stat point allocation allows.
How does that force everyone to be identical? Identical in 'x' perhaps, but they're replacing 'x' with 'y', so that people are much more diverse in 'y'.
In the worst possible scenario, we'll get the same level of customization in this way that we already do (read: not that much, if any), just in a different name. You're throwing a fit because they're calling it 'y' now instead of 'x'. Do you understand how silly that is?
Read what you just quoted. Stat points are being removed IN FAVOR OF OTHER customization systems.
That doesn't = same characters.
How do you customize characters in Diablo 2? 3 ways, Skills, Stats, Gear.
Skills and Stats in Diablo 2 are EXTREMELY flawed in every way imaginable. What if they did away with both systems and added 4 in their place? I wouldn't complain about that. Or at the very least, remove both systems and implement 2 better customization systems in their place. It's still an upgrade over what we currently have.
I mean when I see someone complaining about stat points being removed, I just don't understand it anymore. Increasing your stats did NOTHING to improve the diablo games. Sure, it gave you something to do when you leveled up, but the only reason people are upset is because they are ASSUMING that there will ONLY be 2 customization systems total in D2: gear and skills. This couldn't be farther from the truth, there will be more systems. Just be patient.
Lolz now I'm throwing a fit? Apparently describing to you why I liked the d2 stat system and would rather have seen it improved upon rather then removed is throwing a fit?
Let's face it, in any rpg your going to have your number crunching min/maxxers, so if that was your gripe with stats, its going to exist regardless of what system, if any, it is replaced with. Seeing as to how min maxxers still failed to come up with a single perfect distribution, as there were always variations better for other purposes(example, max block better vs melee max vit better vis casters) I don't think the system was nearly as bad as those who don't fully understand it think it is.
Btw what systems are you so confident are going to add extreme customization to the game? So far it seems like they just have gear and skills...
Did you even read what I posted? At the very least stats doubled the amount of possible builds in D2. How is a feature that effectively doubles the amount of builds you see EXTREMELY flawed in every way imaginable? I'll admit it wasn't perfect, but its obvious to me why you hated the system so much if you fail to even recognize any of the benefits it offered even after I described them for you.
Runes, for one. I'm sure they have plenty more in store for us.
As for the stats, yes they were broken in D2. Hmmm... max block or everything into vitality. Yes it gave the players a choice of two different variations. That to me is a broken system considering there were four stats which should have lead to 24 variations.
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Ok congrats, it doubled the amount of possible builds in Diablo 2. There will be a better system in Diablo 3 that increases the amount of builds even further. What's your point?
Stats in diablo 2 had nothing to do with a build really. It's all about skills for the most part. I don't walk around or see anyone walking around asking: "ah... max block... nice build", no it's all about the skills. If max block was never an option in diablo 2, do you think people would care today? No because stats are boring. That is the most basic form of customization I have ever seen because Diablo 2 was balanced so poorly.
The autostats D3 have nothing to do with D2 failure in this area. The mechanics will be completly different, the equations to calculate everything will be different, everything about D2 balance in irrelevant.
The very reason why D3 will have autostats is because in their opnion, the player shouldn't start the game subject to choices that requires a preview knowledge of the game. They think they can achieve a good level of customisation with other features like gear, skill runes, etc... Features that don't put player in a situation that he must make a choice without the experience to do so.
It's a matter of friendlyness.