Now you remind about how much hate goes in Diablo, there is 2 things I wish to see:
- A marketplace system for buying/selling stuff
- A bounty board where several people can put a bounty on someone but only people around the same level or less can hunt down that person. So if you hate someone level 50, you could drop a bounty on his head, and every level 55 or less can see which game he is playing, hunt him down and get the reward once he is dead. That would be "fun" in hardcore mode...
1. I always thought it'd be cool to see a more efficient in game way to barter, rather then sitting in games hoping someone joins. The easiest way to trade now is jsp, and its pretty much becuase you don't have to sit in games for hours hoping someone joins with what you want and wants what you have. It'd be awesome to be able to set up searchable have/want lists so its easier to find people you might be able to work a deal with, and a way to send trade offers to people in other games and offline to make things easier.
2. Something like this would be 83279287359 times superior to just removing pk. No matter how much you patch or tweak a game people are going to find new and creative ways to be jerks. One thing I could currently do to be a jerk is to join a baal run, not join the party, tele to throne, and steal kills from the group. With no pk allowed they cant do anything to me, I could ruin every baal run I join. At least with pk they can kill me so I don't screw them up. Having to deal with a pk'er on occasion is a lot more fun then being at the mercy of everyone who finds some lame way to be annoying.
I'm a bit paradoxal in this question.
Basically i'm liberal because I want too see all the D2 flaws vanish. Actually i'm not a very fan of D2 so it's natural that i want alot of stuff to be changed and i'm happy with the changes announced so far.
At the same time i'm a bit ultra-conservative because i kno they are making D3 to be a D2 evolution but i wish they make D3 as a D1 evolution (since D2 aren't a D1 evolution, it's a drastical change of genres).
Emilemil, i hadnt thought of that kinda need 3d for physics lol. i gues another reason i wanna be able to move the screen is cuz i think in every game at one point in time, i like to check out the graphics job done by the company. On the other hand, there is no other reason to put it in. doesnt do anything, and as i think bash... (forgot name lol) stated in a blue post, it holds to d2 and gives to advantages.
I don't care if they have a pk and a non-pk server, I'd just hate a game where I have my pk neutered, or I'm forced to play with people I can't pk, since the annoyance factor of dealing with griefers tends to increase exponentially in games where you can't do anything to prevent it within the limits of the game.
With Pk I can stop you from doing anything in my game I don't want you to do by killing you. Without it I have to stop playing the game, log into some forums, and complain endlessly until the game is patched. Pk gets my vote any day of the week.
ay I ask you, wouldn't wanting to remove PK becuase you don't like it also be self centered? Considering you could potentially do anything within the confines of the game I can, theres no argument that its not fair.-nickm83
im sure im not the only one in a way, what is being selfish? one person of the debate is always selfish so ya...
and, reading this last post, i will pull my previous statement back. i took it as, you just join a game to fuck with someone who didnt do any grievences to do you b4. like, hey, im bored, imma pk some pple. i see your point. I do have a big hate for pple who do that. i like ur idea of pk and non pk server.
Oh I didn't mean to be misleading, I do screw with people plenty just for the sake of screwing with people. My point was, your going to get screwed with regardless of whether or not pk is allowed, but wouldn't you rather have a fair way in game to deal with it rather then have to take it to complaining on forums hoping enough people complain to get Blizzard to implement changes, at which point people who want to screw with you just find other ways to screw with you?
I do have to admit, even if there are seperate servers, I'm gonna play on both. I'll be on the pk server when I feel like being a "jerk" by trying to pk some runs or jumping in on some good old fashioned, unstructured pub duels. Meanwhile when I just feel like being an annoying griefer I'll be on the non-pk server knowing nobody can do anything to stop me.
I think it would just be simple to let the host/creator of the match have the ability to edit more settings before they create the game. Level restrictions, player restrictions, PKing allowed or not, etc... Also the ability to kick/ban ppl. A lot more efficient that way i think. I would imagine filters would be used to find certain games with settings to your liking so i think it'd be a good idea.
I am independent conservative. I want to have that Diablo feel, but with every new sequal (D3) there needs to be improvement.
I like the fact that they're getting rid of skill tree's and making more/all skills usefull than just wasting points into useless skills to get the ones for fitting the cookie cutter mold . I want solutions to ongoing issues...ie Duping, advertising bots.
I think alot of people are more concerned for an improved active live ingame support than mass bandaid's called patches v1.1?.
Okay so i was in history today and i got an idea of are you mroe for change or for keeping more things the same. Now I know sme thigns have changed aka skill trees inventory hotbar the classes the 3d the colors. So I'm wondering are you Conservative or liberal about diablo.
This paragraph is just... epic.
For a second there I thought my English reading skills had flown right out the window...
Anyway I'm more conservative when it comes to Diablo, only because many things in the previous game worked so well! As for other games in general, I'm usually more of the "scrap everything, back to the drawing board" kind of believer since there are just too many flaws that make the game unbearable.
This paragraph is just... epic.
For a second there I thought my English reading skills had flown right out the window...
.
Thank you i take pride in the fact of my lack of english skills, For somereason when i try to type an idea quickly down on these forums it just always comes out with so many spelling errors that someone comments on it. I learned not to care, i suggest we all do the same and just move on. If you seriouslly can't understand my point i am trying to get across please don't hesitate to ask again what i'm trying to say.
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Thank you i take pride in the fact of my lack of english skills, For somereason when i try to type an idea quickly down on these forums it just always comes out with so many spelling errors that someone comments on it. I learned not to care, i suggest we all do the same and just move on. If you seriouslly can't understand my point i am trying to get across please don't hesitate to ask again what i'm trying to say.
Dude! You live in Brooklyn, you have nothing to apologize for!:cool:
As for the topic:
I think I fall somewhere in between, leaning more towards liberal. But I have to say that when DIII was announced, I was much more conservative.
Now that we've seen so much of the game, I am convinced that nearly every change Blizz makes will be a good one. There's around maybe 5% that I don't trust, and that's why we are here! Everyone remembers the whole Gargoyle thing right?
Thank you i take pride in the fact of my lack of english skills, For somereason when i try to type an idea quickly down on these forums it just always comes out with so many spelling errors that someone comments on it. I learned not to care, i suggest we all do the same and just move on. If you seriouslly can't understand my point i am trying to get across please don't hesitate to ask again what i'm trying to say.
Judging by where you came from, I just assumed you were being very sloppy with your sentences
Gold based economy is going to suffer from inflation far more then bartering.
A chat filter on a game thats hopefully 18+ would deny me of my freedom of speech.
Limiting pk is going to conflict with my freedom of expression.
I could see how this liberal philosophy could work out with a gold based economy. We're going to end up with a tax on wealthy players thats funneled to casual players and noobs. Clearly those people who want to waste 12 hours a day playing a game don't deserve to be rich on it.
I am all for change. As long as I still get to spam skills and kill Diablo, I'm good. I think change is always good on a game that is over 10yrs old. There are plenty of new things developers can do now compared to '99. I don't get people who just want to play a graphic improved D2. Yes it was an awesome game but I think that with some change, D3 will be even better.
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Gold based economy is going to suffer from inflation far more then bartering.
A chat filter on a game thats hopefully 18+ would deny me of my freedom of speech.
Limiting pk is going to conflict with my freedom of expression.
I could see how this liberal philosophy could work out with a gold based economy. We're going to end up with a tax on wealthy players thats funneled to casual players and noobs. Clearly those people who want to waste 12 hours a day playing a game don't deserve to be rich on it.
Everything you don't choose in a game conflicts with your individuality. And a game were users choose everything will surely have a horrible mechanic.
Biding gear is mechanism to prevent inflaction and produce a healthier free market.
I don't really have to argue about the superiority of a current based economy.
If your expression depends uppon inflict others welfare it shall be limited. Like in any half civilized place.
And we will not end up with taxes since it's not needed in a game. What is needed is a better gaming experience compered to the outdated D2. Joy must be optimized.
Auto-stats make no difference. Smart people had the same stats always. Stupid people were only ones suffering from last one. I'm certain you belonged to the smart group, right? Or did you feel "better-than-thou" because of knowing some newbie will always have bad stats?
Not really, most builds at least had max block and max vit variants, plus some that just went totally against the norm, like glass cannons and any type of es sorc. In my opinion more balanced stats > everyone being clones.
Binding gear is the only salvation the pseudo-free market has. It's not a real free market. Supply is not dynamic. If it was, no binding would be OK. With the planned economy Diablo is, deflation would be rampant. Deflation is bad, m'kay?
If it wasn't for dupers/botters there'd have been so ridiculously little deflation in D2 it would have been irrelevant. It would have only even been noticeable on non-ladder with anything good with less then perfect mods. Why not fix duping rather then implement some lame change thats gonna pork over casual players even more?
This crap is like the government making it illegal for anyone to sell a car other then a new car dealer. Wouldn't that suck if you couldn't trade in or sell an old car when you want to buy a different/better vehicle? Imagine all the used car dealers that would go out of business over night, or in D2 terms, all the bartering that should happen but won't. Its not adding anything at all to the economy, its just hurting it.
Bartering never suffered from inflation. Instead deflation. Gold based economy is easier to fix. Inflation is caused by more cold entering the market than leaving. Can be fixed rather easily by having them almost equal.
The only thing in D2 that mainly suffered from deflation was HR's, and that was from duping, not bartering. As far as player to player transactions go, the cost of top end gear is going to constantly rise the longer the game/ladder is running, and theres no way around it.
I'd rather be a new player starting a ladder season halfway through if deflation was the problem vs inflation being the problem. At least with deflation you have a chance to catch up to others.
The thing a gold based economy, and in game methods of removing it, is they all just amount to play time being wasted grinding gold. Every in game gold synch is just a time dump. I'd rather have fun dueling people, pk'ing people, doing some pub runs, trading, or pretty much any other activity you can think of over grinding gold. At least in D2 if your going mf'ing for an hour, the randomness keeps it exciting. Some days you get nothing worth keeping, sometimes you mf for 15 minutes and make a bundle. Grinding golds just the same lame old you can grind 1000 an hour if your quick type crap....boooooring.
Freedom of speech does not include the freedom to cuss. Besides, it's most likely on/off.
Also, there's no freedoms when playing on battle.net. To play there, you accept their rules, if you don't accept them, don't play there. Simple.
The day I pledged an oath to never buy another ncsoft game again was the same day I found out you could get banned on a game for typing a three letter variation of butt that starts with A. You can spell it in plain english, with no attempt at all to get around the chat filter, yet, some idiot with their chat filter turned off complains and you get a ban. Not to mention theres an ignore feature on top of the chat filter.
Limiting PK will make the game more enjoyable for all those who enjoy the PvM aspect.
Any idea to limit pk is going to be awful. Examples...toggle it at game creation. This effectively kills pk, since all the games youd want to join to pk unsuspecting people will toggle no pk.(baal runs, chaos runs, random quests, mf runs etc...) Or another idea, toggle pk at character creation...everyones gonna have a no pk mfer, and farm gear for their pk alts with no risk of pk. Any idea you can conjure up is going to have some lame way around it.
The only limit to pk thats not a total screwing to people who enjoy pk, is just to make seperate servers. Just my personal bias, but games that involve competitive aspects vs other people tend to have much more replay value then games that you just do the same vs cpu stuff over and over and over. How'd blizzard make mobs hard in d2, look at the ubers, they just gave them uber resists and uber damage, and a ton of hp, yet they still have limited strategy and do the same crap over and over. You do them once, you can do them a million times. Meanwhile look at vs a player. They are only capable of stats that your capable of, but the randomness factor and not knowing exactly what a characters build is until youve dueled them for a while makes dueling a player far more exciting and random then any cpu challenge.
This bit makes no sense.
Sorry I was confusing liberalism with socialism again:(
Everything you don't choose in a game conflicts with your individuality. And a game were users choose everything will surely have a horrible mechanic.
Just curious, have you ever complained about cookie cutter builds in d2?
Biding gear is mechanism to prevent inflaction and produce a healthier free market.
Promote a healthy free market by telling me some of my items are untradable...
I don't really have to argue about the superiority of a current based economy.
Uh, do you mean you don't have to argue about the superiority the current economy set up in d2?
If not, I'll just ask you to please explain how the inflation effect of fg on d2jsp for diablo 2, which is essentially an out of game gold currency, will be any different then a game with an in gold economy? Even if you add a ton of gold synchs into the game, your just increasing grind time, your not going to make it so people don't end up with piles of gold horded away.
If your expression depends uppon inflict others welfare it shall be limited. Like in any half civilized place.
The name of the game is DIABLO. I don't want to hold your hand and sing the barney song with you, I want to spit a fireball in your face and laugh at your death cry, and then get to laugh when you e-rage that I stole your gold:P Is it that awful to think some people might just like to play a bad guy on occasion while playing a game that amounts to a brief escape from reality? Maybe I spend all day at work going from account to account and kissing up to customers, and its nice to be able to do the opposite in my unwind time. I can't blast a customer with a fireball so I just have to settle for some pixels on my computer...
Exactly, you either went max vita, or max block, then there was glass cannon and ES sorceresses. In the end, you were just either a copy of the same max vita/max block variant of your build, or just wasting your stats.
So allocating stat points allows for more build variants, is anything that lessens the builds people use going to add variety to the game? I don't think so...
Like I said with balanced stats, stats that aren't like OMG YOU PUT 100 POINTS IN ENERGY ON SOMETHING NOT AN ES SORC YOUR AN IDIOT would be a lot more fun then...every barb being exactly the same. I'd rather see a system where you have a ton of str, you have certain disadvantages and advantages over putting those points in vit or dex, or you could make a jack of all trades and split them up more evenly. You wouldnt end up with that omg this character is screwed up feeling, but you'd probably still have that oh man, I wanna tweak this a little more feeling, which is good. If theres something that makes you want to play an experiment more, thats a good thing.
What if instead of stats the same was reached through items, you could either go for a max block shield and armor, or go all out on vitality stats.
So every situation suddenly becomes a matter of optimizing your gear rather then just having strengths and weaknesses to your build, and rather then do something to encourage more character variation, heres a change that effictively makes each character even more similar...genius.
This problem was handled by ladder resets post 1.10.
This solution was perfect.
All the variation your describing in item value is entirely based on duping and jsp. Like your shako example, do you think anyone would really get multiple ist runes if duping and jsp didnt exist before they'd just find a shako or any other unique with enough value to trade for a shako? I doubt it.
Rather then go tit for tat on everything economy, here's my perspective on it...
Fg was the main currency for most people. Every ladder, as people accumulated more and more fg, the price of a truly top end gg item increased. What it cost for a gg rare axe last ladder for example, was more fg then anyone had the first year jsp existed. This type of currency build up seems like a pretty crappy system for a noob to get into. Meanwhile your gg coa never really changed much in relative value to a gg griffons, and your godly rare axe never changed much in relation to a godly rare claw. Barter stayed more stable over time then fg did.
If you didnt jsp and hr's were your main currency, the only reason hr's were ever even common enough to be used as a currency was becuase of duping. If they were actually as rare as originally intended I doubt anyone on bnet would have a mule full of hr's...
Bottum line on the economy thing is any type of inflation/deflation is only accentuated by currencies. With no currency, a perfect shako for example is just as hard to mf day 1 as day 100, and non currency type items are all worth the same in relation to a perfect shako day 1 as day 100. The only variation you'd get with bartering is lower versions of the item would be easier to acquire via trading over time simply becuase more spawn and get muled, and it gets to a point where people with 6 mules full of random crap they dont need will give you a sweet deal if you happen to have something they need. Ladders the perfect way to reset this occasionally, but in between resets it allows for new players, people starting ladder late, and casual players to do more then get pushed further and further out of the economy by people who put more time into playing.
Instead you can MF some and sell the items you find for gold.
Fantastic, so instead of the most time efficient way to play be learning whats valuable, and only bothering to pick up items of value, I'll be wasting all my time picking up everything to sell so I can add more gold to my horde. I'd rather be rewarded for thinking and differentiating between garbage and valuable then rewarded for mindlessly grinding away selling everything I can get my hands on to make money.
You won't get banned for cursing, but it's an on/off option for the people who don't like seeing fuck this, shit that. Quite civilized an option, I'd add.
That works for me. I can accept getting in trouble for spamming some dude with @$$HOLE over and over to get around the filters, but getting in trouble because someone turns off a chat filter thats defaulted to on when you install the game, and then complains about what they see is enough make me make sure that company never gets another dime from me again.
PK is not competitive. It's when someone enjoys harassing other people who are lower level, less geared and in some cases "less skillful".
People who don't like it, will just enjoy it more when it's taken out, than the minority that like it. There's gonna still be PvP. Just not "RandomJerk666 kills the "Hell Ancients" participiants."
The thing with pk is the pk'er is a hunter, and you can only hunt if you have prey. If theres a ton of corny toggles that can easily make you not prey at will, it effectively removes my ability to be a hunter. From what I've seen of pk on softcore, its so uncommon I'm still trying to figure out why it even bothers people so much. Realistically what, maybe 1 in 20 of your runs even get attacked by a pk'er? Chances are its gonna be 7 on 1 and if you, your runner, or any of the other people in the game are decent they'll take the pk'er out. Even if you do get pk'd half the time, who cares, 1 in 40 runs being denied is worth it just for the bit of randomness it adds to the monotony of baal/chaos runs.
I really don't see what harm there would be in seperate servers. If you hate it and dont want anything to do with it, I can respect that. At the same time if you want to participate in a pk environment, you need to be vulnerable at times, the hunter needs prey. I'd hate to have the thrill of the hunt, or even the thrill of being the hunted be removed from the game because someone else doesn't care for the pk aspect thats been a staple to the series.
I'm fairly certain there will be an auto-party in Diablo 3, it's the only thing that makes sense. Perhaps it's an optional anti-grief check-box when creating a game, but it'll be there. PvP games are planned to be separate. Probably with a higher than 4 limit, as well.
So with everyone in the same party, everyone having their own loot and characters most likely not "clipping" (i.e. you can walk through other characters), how do you plan on griefing, nickm83?
I'll just join your game and sit afk in town while I'm eating dinner or something. Enjoy your 4 man game effictively being made a 3 man game. Maybe I'll leave town and just run in circles herding monsters to make the game harder for you. Or I'd be a witchdoctor and do that zombie wall crap all around you constantly just to annoy you while your moving. Of course I'd also spam chat until you squelched me. I could do the old GODLY SWORD OF AWESOMENESS FOR TRADE FOR 10 PGEMS, SEND TELLS TO *YOURACCOUNTNAMEHERE in a different channel every 3 minutes so you get spammed constantly. I suppose I could always join games doing quests I already have done, waypoint ahead of everyone, and screw you out of the quest. Just wait til it comes out, you'll get griefed, and you'll be saying damn I wish I could pk this jerk right now, nickm83 was right.
Just curious, have you ever complained about cookie cutter builds in d2?
Yes. And autostats have almost nothing to do with customisation. I kno their excuse for autostats is lame. "If it doesn't work in D2 so what? It's another game anyway, they will not just ctrl c +ctrl v D2's mechanic". I understand this point of view.
However, if you have designed or saw someone doing the math of a game once in your life, you will kno that give the player the power to choose stuff like his HP, dmg, etc.. is dangerous when you are aiming for a ACTION oriented game. The design team must have some fixed numbers to creat a well balanced gauntlet. In other case the game will be too easy to a good build and if they balance the gauntlet to good build the game becomes impossible to be played outside cookie cutters.
This is why auto stats RPGs is allways more challenging.
Promote a healthy free market by telling me some of my items are untradable...
Execly. In a game people does not optimize their joy by doing perfect free trades. The theory behind the free market thesis is that human happyness is acquired with material prosperity. And the best way to people achieve that is by trading what others need for stuff you need. If this theory worked in a game economy the best way to run it would give everything for everyone for free.
The problem is that people does not have fun by having stuff, but struggling to achieve this stuff. The BoE system is made to prevent a overflow of high end items in the future, making the strugle to find then allways fresh and fun.
If not, I'll just ask you to please explain how the inflation effect of fg on d2jsp for diablo 2, which is essentially an out of game gold currency, will be any different then a game with an in gold economy? Even if you add a ton of gold synchs into the game, your just increasing grind time, your not going to make it so people don't end up with piles of gold horded away.
The problem of fg is that it have no/low synchs. And how gold synchs would increase grinding time ? This makes no sense.
Add synchs in the game only gives another option to the player spend their gold. Some will choose to spend it in a way that the gold is destroyed, preventing to high inflactions.
The name of the game is DIABLO. I don't want to hold your hand and sing the barney song with you, I want to spit a fireball in your face and laugh at your death cry, and then get to laugh when you e-rage that I stole your gold:P Is it that awful to think some people might just like to play a bad guy on occasion while playing a game that amounts to a brief escape from reality? Maybe I spend all day at work going from account to account and kissing up to customers, and its nice to be able to do the opposite in my unwind time. I can't blast a customer with a fireball so I just have to settle for some pixels on my computer...
The name of the game i Diablo because you fight a demon, not because you're one.
And you spit your fireballs on PvP dude. And you can laught at their death cry. Just accept the fact that this person also want to do that with you and take the risk like a man.
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"In time the hissing of her sanity
Faded out her voice and soiled her name
And like marked pages in a diary
Everything seemed clean that is unstained
The incoherent talk of ordinary days
Why would we really need to live?
Decide what is clear and what's within a haze
What you should take and what to give" - Opeth
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1. I always thought it'd be cool to see a more efficient in game way to barter, rather then sitting in games hoping someone joins. The easiest way to trade now is jsp, and its pretty much becuase you don't have to sit in games for hours hoping someone joins with what you want and wants what you have. It'd be awesome to be able to set up searchable have/want lists so its easier to find people you might be able to work a deal with, and a way to send trade offers to people in other games and offline to make things easier.
2. Something like this would be 83279287359 times superior to just removing pk. No matter how much you patch or tweak a game people are going to find new and creative ways to be jerks. One thing I could currently do to be a jerk is to join a baal run, not join the party, tele to throne, and steal kills from the group. With no pk allowed they cant do anything to me, I could ruin every baal run I join. At least with pk they can kill me so I don't screw them up. Having to deal with a pk'er on occasion is a lot more fun then being at the mercy of everyone who finds some lame way to be annoying.
Basically i'm liberal because I want too see all the D2 flaws vanish. Actually i'm not a very fan of D2 so it's natural that i want alot of stuff to be changed and i'm happy with the changes announced so far.
At the same time i'm a bit ultra-conservative because i kno they are making D3 to be a D2 evolution but i wish they make D3 as a D1 evolution (since D2 aren't a D1 evolution, it's a drastical change of genres).
With Pk I can stop you from doing anything in my game I don't want you to do by killing you. Without it I have to stop playing the game, log into some forums, and complain endlessly until the game is patched. Pk gets my vote any day of the week.
im sure im not the only one in a way, what is being selfish? one person of the debate is always selfish so ya...
and, reading this last post, i will pull my previous statement back. i took it as, you just join a game to fuck with someone who didnt do any grievences to do you b4. like, hey, im bored, imma pk some pple. i see your point. I do have a big hate for pple who do that. i like ur idea of pk and non pk server.
I do have to admit, even if there are seperate servers, I'm gonna play on both. I'll be on the pk server when I feel like being a "jerk" by trying to pk some runs or jumping in on some good old fashioned, unstructured pub duels. Meanwhile when I just feel like being an annoying griefer I'll be on the non-pk server knowing nobody can do anything to stop me.
I like the fact that they're getting rid of skill tree's and making more/all skills usefull than just wasting points into useless skills to get the ones for fitting the cookie cutter mold . I want solutions to ongoing issues...ie Duping, advertising bots.
I think alot of people are more concerned for an improved active live ingame support than mass bandaid's called patches v1.1?.
This paragraph is just... epic.
For a second there I thought my English reading skills had flown right out the window...
Anyway I'm more conservative when it comes to Diablo, only because many things in the previous game worked so well! As for other games in general, I'm usually more of the "scrap everything, back to the drawing board" kind of believer since there are just too many flaws that make the game unbearable.
Thank you i take pride in the fact of my lack of english skills, For somereason when i try to type an idea quickly down on these forums it just always comes out with so many spelling errors that someone comments on it. I learned not to care, i suggest we all do the same and just move on. If you seriouslly can't understand my point i am trying to get across please don't hesitate to ask again what i'm trying to say.
Dude! You live in Brooklyn, you have nothing to apologize for!:cool:
As for the topic:
I think I fall somewhere in between, leaning more towards liberal. But I have to say that when DIII was announced, I was much more conservative.
Now that we've seen so much of the game, I am convinced that nearly every change Blizz makes will be a good one. There's around maybe 5% that I don't trust, and that's why we are here! Everyone remembers the whole Gargoyle thing right?
Judging by where you came from, I just assumed you were being very sloppy with your sentences
Auto stats conflict with my individuality.
Binding gear inhibits the free market.
Gold based economy is going to suffer from inflation far more then bartering.
A chat filter on a game thats hopefully 18+ would deny me of my freedom of speech.
Limiting pk is going to conflict with my freedom of expression.
I could see how this liberal philosophy could work out with a gold based economy. We're going to end up with a tax on wealthy players thats funneled to casual players and noobs. Clearly those people who want to waste 12 hours a day playing a game don't deserve to be rich on it.
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I don't mind them changing things that work; as long as they create something that works as good or even better I'm going to be happy with it.
I'm seeing D3 as a new game, with lore that continues on the D2 lore. That is all.
Join the chat!
Everything you don't choose in a game conflicts with your individuality. And a game were users choose everything will surely have a horrible mechanic.
Biding gear is mechanism to prevent inflaction and produce a healthier free market.
I don't really have to argue about the superiority of a current based economy.
If your expression depends uppon inflict others welfare it shall be limited. Like in any half civilized place.
And we will not end up with taxes since it's not needed in a game. What is needed is a better gaming experience compered to the outdated D2. Joy must be optimized.
Not really, most builds at least had max block and max vit variants, plus some that just went totally against the norm, like glass cannons and any type of es sorc. In my opinion more balanced stats > everyone being clones.
If it wasn't for dupers/botters there'd have been so ridiculously little deflation in D2 it would have been irrelevant. It would have only even been noticeable on non-ladder with anything good with less then perfect mods. Why not fix duping rather then implement some lame change thats gonna pork over casual players even more?
This crap is like the government making it illegal for anyone to sell a car other then a new car dealer. Wouldn't that suck if you couldn't trade in or sell an old car when you want to buy a different/better vehicle? Imagine all the used car dealers that would go out of business over night, or in D2 terms, all the bartering that should happen but won't. Its not adding anything at all to the economy, its just hurting it.
The only thing in D2 that mainly suffered from deflation was HR's, and that was from duping, not bartering. As far as player to player transactions go, the cost of top end gear is going to constantly rise the longer the game/ladder is running, and theres no way around it.
I'd rather be a new player starting a ladder season halfway through if deflation was the problem vs inflation being the problem. At least with deflation you have a chance to catch up to others.
The thing a gold based economy, and in game methods of removing it, is they all just amount to play time being wasted grinding gold. Every in game gold synch is just a time dump. I'd rather have fun dueling people, pk'ing people, doing some pub runs, trading, or pretty much any other activity you can think of over grinding gold. At least in D2 if your going mf'ing for an hour, the randomness keeps it exciting. Some days you get nothing worth keeping, sometimes you mf for 15 minutes and make a bundle. Grinding golds just the same lame old you can grind 1000 an hour if your quick type crap....boooooring.
The day I pledged an oath to never buy another ncsoft game again was the same day I found out you could get banned on a game for typing a three letter variation of butt that starts with A. You can spell it in plain english, with no attempt at all to get around the chat filter, yet, some idiot with their chat filter turned off complains and you get a ban. Not to mention theres an ignore feature on top of the chat filter.
Any idea to limit pk is going to be awful. Examples...toggle it at game creation. This effectively kills pk, since all the games youd want to join to pk unsuspecting people will toggle no pk.(baal runs, chaos runs, random quests, mf runs etc...) Or another idea, toggle pk at character creation...everyones gonna have a no pk mfer, and farm gear for their pk alts with no risk of pk. Any idea you can conjure up is going to have some lame way around it.
The only limit to pk thats not a total screwing to people who enjoy pk, is just to make seperate servers. Just my personal bias, but games that involve competitive aspects vs other people tend to have much more replay value then games that you just do the same vs cpu stuff over and over and over. How'd blizzard make mobs hard in d2, look at the ubers, they just gave them uber resists and uber damage, and a ton of hp, yet they still have limited strategy and do the same crap over and over. You do them once, you can do them a million times. Meanwhile look at vs a player. They are only capable of stats that your capable of, but the randomness factor and not knowing exactly what a characters build is until youve dueled them for a while makes dueling a player far more exciting and random then any cpu challenge.
Sorry I was confusing liberalism with socialism again:(
Just curious, have you ever complained about cookie cutter builds in d2?
Promote a healthy free market by telling me some of my items are untradable...
Uh, do you mean you don't have to argue about the superiority the current economy set up in d2?
If not, I'll just ask you to please explain how the inflation effect of fg on d2jsp for diablo 2, which is essentially an out of game gold currency, will be any different then a game with an in gold economy? Even if you add a ton of gold synchs into the game, your just increasing grind time, your not going to make it so people don't end up with piles of gold horded away.
The name of the game is DIABLO. I don't want to hold your hand and sing the barney song with you, I want to spit a fireball in your face and laugh at your death cry, and then get to laugh when you e-rage that I stole your gold:P Is it that awful to think some people might just like to play a bad guy on occasion while playing a game that amounts to a brief escape from reality? Maybe I spend all day at work going from account to account and kissing up to customers, and its nice to be able to do the opposite in my unwind time. I can't blast a customer with a fireball so I just have to settle for some pixels on my computer...
So allocating stat points allows for more build variants, is anything that lessens the builds people use going to add variety to the game? I don't think so...
Like I said with balanced stats, stats that aren't like OMG YOU PUT 100 POINTS IN ENERGY ON SOMETHING NOT AN ES SORC YOUR AN IDIOT would be a lot more fun then...every barb being exactly the same. I'd rather see a system where you have a ton of str, you have certain disadvantages and advantages over putting those points in vit or dex, or you could make a jack of all trades and split them up more evenly. You wouldnt end up with that omg this character is screwed up feeling, but you'd probably still have that oh man, I wanna tweak this a little more feeling, which is good. If theres something that makes you want to play an experiment more, thats a good thing.
So every situation suddenly becomes a matter of optimizing your gear rather then just having strengths and weaknesses to your build, and rather then do something to encourage more character variation, heres a change that effictively makes each character even more similar...genius.
This solution was perfect.
All the variation your describing in item value is entirely based on duping and jsp. Like your shako example, do you think anyone would really get multiple ist runes if duping and jsp didnt exist before they'd just find a shako or any other unique with enough value to trade for a shako? I doubt it.
Rather then go tit for tat on everything economy, here's my perspective on it...
Fg was the main currency for most people. Every ladder, as people accumulated more and more fg, the price of a truly top end gg item increased. What it cost for a gg rare axe last ladder for example, was more fg then anyone had the first year jsp existed. This type of currency build up seems like a pretty crappy system for a noob to get into. Meanwhile your gg coa never really changed much in relative value to a gg griffons, and your godly rare axe never changed much in relation to a godly rare claw. Barter stayed more stable over time then fg did.
If you didnt jsp and hr's were your main currency, the only reason hr's were ever even common enough to be used as a currency was becuase of duping. If they were actually as rare as originally intended I doubt anyone on bnet would have a mule full of hr's...
Bottum line on the economy thing is any type of inflation/deflation is only accentuated by currencies. With no currency, a perfect shako for example is just as hard to mf day 1 as day 100, and non currency type items are all worth the same in relation to a perfect shako day 1 as day 100. The only variation you'd get with bartering is lower versions of the item would be easier to acquire via trading over time simply becuase more spawn and get muled, and it gets to a point where people with 6 mules full of random crap they dont need will give you a sweet deal if you happen to have something they need. Ladders the perfect way to reset this occasionally, but in between resets it allows for new players, people starting ladder late, and casual players to do more then get pushed further and further out of the economy by people who put more time into playing.
Fantastic, so instead of the most time efficient way to play be learning whats valuable, and only bothering to pick up items of value, I'll be wasting all my time picking up everything to sell so I can add more gold to my horde. I'd rather be rewarded for thinking and differentiating between garbage and valuable then rewarded for mindlessly grinding away selling everything I can get my hands on to make money.
That works for me. I can accept getting in trouble for spamming some dude with @$$HOLE over and over to get around the filters, but getting in trouble because someone turns off a chat filter thats defaulted to on when you install the game, and then complains about what they see is enough make me make sure that company never gets another dime from me again.
The thing with pk is the pk'er is a hunter, and you can only hunt if you have prey. If theres a ton of corny toggles that can easily make you not prey at will, it effectively removes my ability to be a hunter. From what I've seen of pk on softcore, its so uncommon I'm still trying to figure out why it even bothers people so much. Realistically what, maybe 1 in 20 of your runs even get attacked by a pk'er? Chances are its gonna be 7 on 1 and if you, your runner, or any of the other people in the game are decent they'll take the pk'er out. Even if you do get pk'd half the time, who cares, 1 in 40 runs being denied is worth it just for the bit of randomness it adds to the monotony of baal/chaos runs.
I really don't see what harm there would be in seperate servers. If you hate it and dont want anything to do with it, I can respect that. At the same time if you want to participate in a pk environment, you need to be vulnerable at times, the hunter needs prey. I'd hate to have the thrill of the hunt, or even the thrill of being the hunted be removed from the game because someone else doesn't care for the pk aspect thats been a staple to the series.
I'll just join your game and sit afk in town while I'm eating dinner or something. Enjoy your 4 man game effictively being made a 3 man game. Maybe I'll leave town and just run in circles herding monsters to make the game harder for you. Or I'd be a witchdoctor and do that zombie wall crap all around you constantly just to annoy you while your moving. Of course I'd also spam chat until you squelched me. I could do the old GODLY SWORD OF AWESOMENESS FOR TRADE FOR 10 PGEMS, SEND TELLS TO *YOURACCOUNTNAMEHERE in a different channel every 3 minutes so you get spammed constantly. I suppose I could always join games doing quests I already have done, waypoint ahead of everyone, and screw you out of the quest. Just wait til it comes out, you'll get griefed, and you'll be saying damn I wish I could pk this jerk right now, nickm83 was right.
Yes. And autostats have almost nothing to do with customisation. I kno their excuse for autostats is lame. "If it doesn't work in D2 so what? It's another game anyway, they will not just ctrl c +ctrl v D2's mechanic". I understand this point of view.
However, if you have designed or saw someone doing the math of a game once in your life, you will kno that give the player the power to choose stuff like his HP, dmg, etc.. is dangerous when you are aiming for a ACTION oriented game. The design team must have some fixed numbers to creat a well balanced gauntlet. In other case the game will be too easy to a good build and if they balance the gauntlet to good build the game becomes impossible to be played outside cookie cutters.
This is why auto stats RPGs is allways more challenging.
Execly. In a game people does not optimize their joy by doing perfect free trades. The theory behind the free market thesis is that human happyness is acquired with material prosperity. And the best way to people achieve that is by trading what others need for stuff you need. If this theory worked in a game economy the best way to run it would give everything for everyone for free.
The problem is that people does not have fun by having stuff, but struggling to achieve this stuff. The BoE system is made to prevent a overflow of high end items in the future, making the strugle to find then allways fresh and fun.
The problem of fg is that it have no/low synchs. And how gold synchs would increase grinding time ? This makes no sense.
Add synchs in the game only gives another option to the player spend their gold. Some will choose to spend it in a way that the gold is destroyed, preventing to high inflactions.
The name of the game i Diablo because you fight a demon, not because you're one.
And you spit your fireballs on PvP dude. And you can laught at their death cry. Just accept the fact that this person also want to do that with you and take the risk like a man.