Yeah, I'm sure they sat down when making D2 thinking "boy, this class has too many powerful skills, we need to water them down with some useless crap..." It's highly likely there will be a few, but I don't think they PLAN to make useless skills.
Yeah, I'm sure they sat down when making D2 thinking "boy, this class has too many powerful skills, we need to water them down with some useless crap..." It's highly likely there will be a few, but I don't think they PLAN to make useless skills.
when you cant kill a monster with a specific skill when it's maxed out its useless and im sure they tested the game thoroughly and realized that this was the case so indeed i believe they do that just to piss you off. like iron maiden with melee characters. for instance if you maxed warcry max this plus all the synergies and youll have a hard time in the stony field.
When there are skill trees where you know that by the time you get to higher levels you will only be using the later skills, it can be a challenge and sometimes fun to figure out how you are going to survive placing as few skill points into those useless skill areas as possible. idk. its like there were times i liked it and times when i hated it. With that being said im still very much glad they are going to make every skill useful.
This is something that they can't know until after the game is launched. It's based entirely on large-scale player reaction and how common cookie-cutter builds that don't incorporate said skills are.
Take confusion for example, countless necros didn't even bother putting skill points into this one, but I loved it, and had included it with damn near every build.
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Exactly! How many poison dagger melee necros did you see out there? I was one of the few.
The masses will flock towards the easy builds, and the hardcore players will find a way to make the most of difficult builds and "useless" skills.
I agree with this. My fw/fo sorc was very fun. I guess im just thinkink of playing on hell. no skill is useless, if you build to play on norm or nm.
But I was not taking about pvp character skills because you can pretty much come up w/ anything. I mean pvm, before they made certain runewords even some great skills were useless from the get go, like any kind of fire on hell. and they made some skill that started out dope go obsolete like poison nova 1.08 that skill was the s*** but who uses pn pvm anymore? idk I we all have our own idea of "useless" to each his own.^_^
Exactly! How many poison dagger melee necros did you see out there? I was one of the few.
The masses will flock towards the easy builds, and the hardcore players will find a way to make the most of difficult builds and "useless" skills.
i had one... and it was damn near impossible to do anything unless it was one on one. howd you play it? id use lower resist>poison dagger>bone prison>iron maiden. was effective, but again, only against one.
I guess useless skills would be a rather subjective thing. While there are builds out there that can do mass killing and offer little challenge, there are also builds using those-said 'useless' skills to make things much more challenging. As long as you can kill monsters(however slow), it all depends on how much fun the player is having.
On a personal note I admit I don't have the patience to try out all the(less effective) skills, as meeting up with immunes provide more than enough challenge for me.:P
Yes, like Blessed Hammers, the worst skill in D2...
agreed, but i also think that the pally was to stacked a character period.:rolleyes:
example.
who do you use in uber trist, paladin. (I used my frenzy barb :cool:)
who do you use to kill diablo clone, paladin. (I Used my frenzy barb :cool:)
what did everyone run bots with, paladin.
who lead just about every run, paladin.
who did everyone hack out, paladin.
etc.
etc.
etc.
so on and so on and so on.
Don't forget the runes which can change skills....
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I am cheese. I am loved by all. I go great with everything. Other foods hate me because I take all the glory. Like Nachos..Their just jealous cause no one eats them unless Im there. Shit..I even ruined broccili's rep. Broccili kept talkin shit so I was like. " You know what?, I think I might melt myself on some Broccilli. See how those humans enjoy that green [sexual slur censored] now." Shit...Now,People dont even touch him, unless Im all over that shit! Ahhh..Its not easy, being cheesy.. Peace. Cheese Out.
agreed, but i also think that the pally was to stacked a character period.:rolleyes:
example.
who do you use in uber trist, paladin. (I used my frenzy barb :cool:)
who do you use to kill diablo clone, paladin. (I Used my frenzy barb :cool:)
what did everyone run bots with, paladin.
who lead just about every run, paladin.
who did everyone hack out, paladin.
etc.
etc.
etc.
so on and so on and so on.
when you cant kill a monster with a specific skill when it's maxed out its useless and im sure they tested the game thoroughly
When D2 was released, you need to keep in mind. They spent a total of 1-2 months on nightmare/hell difficulty. You invest 20 points into firebolt and you could pwn diablo just fine in normal mode. The whole skill tree and "planned obselence" made perfect sense in a game ending around level 25. It was only completely inane for high-level characters, which very little effort was put into balancing anyway.
Much further down the road they tried to address this flaw with synergies, but that didn't really do it.
That said, from what we've heard so far, I think the team is giving the higher difficulties some careful thought this time around. There will still be suboptimal skills, but hopefully few completely useless ones.
I rather like the idea of calling the so-called "useless" skills "difficult" skills instead. I actually wouldn't mind if Blizzard incorporated some skills that weren't quite as powerful and cookie-cutter friendly as other skills in the tree for a challenge and variety's sake. Sometimes, I wouldn't mind designing a character built around Sacrifice rather than Blessed Hammer.
It gives the game more replay value in my opinion and helps you in creating a unique character that sets you apart from the masses. And if you can make that character really work, then the satisfaction is even greater than it would be with a cookie-cutter build. I really hope we get some "difficult" skills in Diablo 3.
I rather like the idea of calling the so-called "useless" skills "difficult" skills instead. I actually wouldn't mind if Blizzard incorporated some skills that weren't quite as powerful and cookie-cutter friendly as other skills in the tree for a challenge and variety's sake. Sometimes, I wouldn't mind designing a character built around Sacrifice rather than Blessed Hammer.
It gives the game more replay value in my opinion and helps you in creating a unique character that sets you apart from the masses. And if you can make that character really work, then the satisfaction is even greater than it would be with a cookie-cutter build. I really hope we get some "difficult" skills in Diablo 3.
"Difficult" skills are different from useless skills... I already said this I believe.
There will be some skills that fall by the wayside once D3 hits the streets. You can't force a player to use all the skills they just do not want to use... or can you?
With the Wizard teleport, we have seen the most dreaded of gameplay mechanics introduced to D3: cooldowns. To what extent will cooldowns be a factor? If we have no choice but to cycle through most of our abilities (something noticeable in the gameplay videos thus far, but could be chalked up to skill exhibition) then no skill will be considered useless.
...on the other hand, the Monk gameplay couldn't possibly have cooldowns - and his gameplay looks delicious enough to eat.
From what I've read, during gameplay at BlizzCons the cooldown was reported at 9 seconds. It isn't an instant spell a la Sorceress teleport either more of a Jump-Shift-Land kind of thing.
Are cooldowns bad in Diablo?
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when you cant kill a monster with a specific skill when it's maxed out its useless and im sure they tested the game thoroughly and realized that this was the case so indeed i believe they do that just to piss you off. like iron maiden with melee characters. for instance if you maxed warcry max this plus all the synergies and youll have a hard time in the stony field.
Love your name, by the way
Rise and rise again, until lambs become lions
Thats how it went down in D2, pretty much.
Take confusion for example, countless necros didn't even bother putting skill points into this one, but I loved it, and had included it with damn near every build.
The masses will flock towards the easy builds, and the hardcore players will find a way to make the most of difficult builds and "useless" skills.
I agree with this. My fw/fo sorc was very fun. I guess im just thinkink of playing on hell. no skill is useless, if you build to play on norm or nm.
But I was not taking about pvp character skills because you can pretty much come up w/ anything. I mean pvm, before they made certain runewords even some great skills were useless from the get go, like any kind of fire on hell. and they made some skill that started out dope go obsolete like poison nova 1.08 that skill was the s*** but who uses pn pvm anymore? idk I we all have our own idea of "useless" to each his own.^_^
i had one... and it was damn near impossible to do anything unless it was one on one. howd you play it? id use lower resist>poison dagger>bone prison>iron maiden. was effective, but again, only against one.
On a personal note I admit I don't have the patience to try out all the(less effective) skills, as meeting up with immunes provide more than enough challenge for me.:P
example.
who do you use in uber trist, paladin. (I used my frenzy barb :cool:)
who do you use to kill diablo clone, paladin. (I Used my frenzy barb :cool:)
what did everyone run bots with, paladin.
who lead just about every run, paladin.
who did everyone hack out, paladin.
etc.
etc.
etc.
so on and so on and so on.
I used my lightning sorc to run my bot.
♣Strength and Honor♣
When D2 was released, you need to keep in mind. They spent a total of 1-2 months on nightmare/hell difficulty. You invest 20 points into firebolt and you could pwn diablo just fine in normal mode. The whole skill tree and "planned obselence" made perfect sense in a game ending around level 25. It was only completely inane for high-level characters, which very little effort was put into balancing anyway.
Much further down the road they tried to address this flaw with synergies, but that didn't really do it.
That said, from what we've heard so far, I think the team is giving the higher difficulties some careful thought this time around. There will still be suboptimal skills, but hopefully few completely useless ones.
It gives the game more replay value in my opinion and helps you in creating a unique character that sets you apart from the masses. And if you can make that character really work, then the satisfaction is even greater than it would be with a cookie-cutter build. I really hope we get some "difficult" skills in Diablo 3.
"Difficult" skills are different from useless skills... I already said this I believe.
With the Wizard teleport, we have seen the most dreaded of gameplay mechanics introduced to D3: cooldowns. To what extent will cooldowns be a factor? If we have no choice but to cycle through most of our abilities (something noticeable in the gameplay videos thus far, but could be chalked up to skill exhibition) then no skill will be considered useless.
...on the other hand, the Monk gameplay couldn't possibly have cooldowns - and his gameplay looks delicious enough to eat.
you don't take - Wayne Gretzky"
- Michael Scott
Are cooldowns bad in Diablo?