Ok me and my friend were talking yesterday while I was at Blizzcon and I had to break the news to him that the stat points were allocated automatically for him. He was pissed. Now me and him have been fans of Blizzard since Diablo 1's release. We got to talking about ways that it is good and bad, and we came up with an idea to use a Morrowind / WoW way of customization.
This has probably been said before, and if it has give me the answer to what was said about it.
Here it goes:
Issue:
The Barbarian has no weapon masteries so far in the build beside dual wield and throw. This is saying the Barbarian is a master at all weapon types unless he decides to dual wield or throw. This will lead to every Barbarian in the end really being the same character aside from skill choices and runes.
Question:
Why limit your guy to only being customized by skills or a rune to change your skills which in the end everyone can copy and make the same Barbarian?
Theory:
Look at Morrowind or WoW, each type of weapon (EX: Short sword, Broad swords, Great swords) have a level of proficiency thus weapon mastery but with much greater depth and without wasting skills. Diablo would allow an ungodly amount of customization in it if you were allowed to level up your characters proficency with certain armors and weapon types. You would level them up just like any other game where you use the weapon or armor alot you become more knowledgable about it and thus become better at using it.
EX: A Barbarian using a light armor to increase his speed so he can chase people/monsters down. This is already in the game with armor grades but with each level in light armor you can make it so the Barbarian gets more defense wearing light armor, or an extra slight increase in speed.
EX2: A Barbarian wearing heavy armor can have it do the same, increase defense, maybe even increase life, or make it less cumbersome to wear.
This will allow you to essentially make your character how you want him, and will allow a far greater customization then skills or runes or stats which everyone will end up the same.
Now I figure start at level 1 with everything...max at level 100. Only 1 weapon type and armor type may hit 100 thus counting as a complete mastery. Once you hit that Master level you would gain special bonuses that would differ per item type. For example with the light armor you could gain +20% FRW or +30 dex. Now some may say well that just makes it so you have pure sword barbs or pure axe barbs, you can level every item up to atleast 50-99 and become efficient at using them but you wouldn't gain the mastery bonus unless you hit 100. So you are still open to killing or dueling with anything.
I know this is kinda what they are doing in WoW now, but believe it or not I can see no downfall to this.
Unlimited customization, really get to build your character how you want him, you are not going to run into the same type of character nearly as much as you do now or you might in the future with just a rune system being the customization.
Face it, people are going to crack the codes to the runes and figure out the top builds and thats it, unless Blizzard nerfs and patches the game hella lot you are just playing Diablo 2.5.
I would love for some feedback on this and hopefully even Bashioks view on this as to if they are planning on some system like this or if it has already been looked at and what flaws they found.
Ok me and my friend were talking yesterday while I was at Blizzcon and I had to break the news to him that the stat points were allocated automatically for him. He was pissed. Now me and him have been fans of Blizzard since Diablo 1's release. We got to talking about ways that it is good and bad, and we came up with an idea to use a Morrowind / WoW way of customization.
This has probably been said before, and if it has give me the answer to what was said about it.
Here it goes:
Issue:
The Barbarian has no weapon masteries so far in the build beside dual wield and throw. This is saying the Barbarian is a master at all weapon types unless he decides to dual wield or throw. This will lead to every Barbarian in the end really being the same character aside from skill choices and runes.
Question:
Why limit your guy to only being customized by skills or a rune to change your skills which in the end everyone can copy and make the same Barbarian?
Theory:
Look at Morrowind or WoW, each type of weapon (EX: Short sword, Broad swords, Great swords) have a level of proficiency thus weapon mastery but with much greater depth and without wasting skills. Diablo would allow an ungodly amount of customization in it if you were allowed to level up your characters proficency with certain armors and weapon types. You would level them up just like any other game where you use the weapon or armor alot you become more knowledgable about it and thus become better at using it.
EX: A Barbarian using a light armor to increase his speed so he can chase people/monsters down. This is already in the game with armor grades but with each level in light armor you can make it so the Barbarian gets more defense wearing light armor, or an extra slight increase in speed.
EX2: A Barbarian wearing heavy armor can have it do the same, increase defense, maybe even increase life, or make it less cumbersome to wear.
This will allow you to essentially make your character how you want him, and will allow a far greater customization then skills or runes or stats which everyone will end up the same.
Now I figure start at level 1 with everything...max at level 100. Only 1 weapon type and armor type may hit 100 thus counting as a complete mastery. Once you hit that Master level you would gain special bonuses that would differ per item type. For example with the light armor you could gain +20% FRW or +30 dex. Now some may say well that just makes it so you have pure sword barbs or pure axe barbs, you can level every item up to atleast 50-99 and become efficient at using them but you wouldn't gain the mastery bonus unless you hit 100. So you are still open to killing or dueling with anything.
I know this is kinda what they are doing in WoW now, but believe it or not I can see no downfall to this.
Unlimited customization, really get to build your character how you want him, you are not going to run into the same type of character nearly as much as you do now or you might in the future with just a rune system being the customization.
Face it, people are going to crack the codes to the runes and figure out the top builds and thats it, unless Blizzard nerfs and patches the game hella lot you are just playing Diablo 2.5.
I would love for some feedback on this and hopefully even Bashioks view on this as to if they are planning on some system like this or if it has already been looked at and what flaws they found.
They said that runes will allow a ton of flexibility in terms of customizing your character. In addition to that, they said they will itemize accordingly due to the automatic stat point system. Also, don't forget the skill system. And of course, don't discount the fact that they haven't shown us everything.
So my answer to anybody who is disappointed at the automatic skill system, is that they are taking this into consideration with itemization, runes, and any other system they have yet to reveal to still allow a very large diversification to your character so you still can be quite different which will allow for more builds than D2 even had.
Bad idea. Since blizzard limited your choice of weapons already why would you want more limitation.
And i should note he barb has a duel weild spec, two hand spec, and throwing spec, you could essentially use any two weapons you want, or any big sword mace hammer thing you want. Why on earth would you want to restrict yourself to what you used most till you were level 10? And what if I was a wizard, do I care if I can hit with a staff or not? No, I only care about the specs on the staff or wand or w/e. And if you want a crazy type build then your idea would only go against that more than it would help if you ask me.
This is Diablo, customization is key, limiting me to a certain weapon because thats what I used most is not cool in any way. I personally love the idea of auto skill points. I don't see how making them automatic would really remove any customization, in the end how far did 100 str go? It was only for equips and now there are no stat requirements. Too me it's just one less thing i have to worry about screwing up.
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Well you tried and props for that, but unforunately I find this an unsatisfactory idea. Mabey if you explained it better I would be able to accept it a little more.
First of all light armor to make you run faster to chase monsters? Why? Wouldn't the monsters be chaseing you?
Second you said a barb that wears heavy armor has more defense. Well yeah that already exists. Doesn't platemail already have more defense that leather?
I'm sorry I just don't understand your logic right now about these armor masteries.
Barb does not have a two hand spec at least he did not have it in the demo.
Lets look here:
Runes on skills...OK how many runes they say? 12 tops? OK how many useful skills are there? Lets take Witch Doctors fear skill for example...that's kinda useless. The runes are there to try and make useless skills seem useable, but will they top usefull skills with runes? Do you honestly think everyone will be different? You obviously did not play Diablo 2 before .9. Everyone was kinda different and it was great, but then people caught on and figured out builds that worked. Same thing will happen with D3 wether you want it to or not. The amount of runes they put in don't mean anything when only 2/12 are going to be used.
They limit your character to where you cant wield a staff on barb...who cares? You still have short swords, broad swords, great swords, 1 handed axes, 2 handed axes, ect ,ect. There are plenty and I mean plenty of options to pick from.
How would this system limit you? You choose what you want to do with your guy. You are saying you are going to carry a pole arm and a sword and an axe and use them all? You are honestly going to tell me while you are killing monsters and pvp you are going to be swapping your weapons in and out?
Is that the best you can come up with to down this idea? Cause it failed. This idea lets you make your guy how you want but also allows the freedom to use whatever you want. Sure you wont be as good at a sword as an axe if you master axe, but that doesn't mean your guy cant do anything with a sword, you just wont gain the bonuses.
Also I posted this in the suggestion area but apparently noone checks that, so great on getting feedback.
For donsro:
Thanks for actually replying. I will try and explain. I love PvP and if you like PvP you would understand chasing people is essential with a barbarian so the light armor example is really meant for pvp. I can make it PvM related tho, say you are dying, need to run...can you honestly run away with a giant heavy armor on? With a light armor you would be able to escape much quicker.
The heavy armor analogy I used for more defense is it would give you an extra boost of defense beside the fact it already gives you more. Like holy shield gave more defense for the paladin.
Light armor is used to agility, quickness, evading
Heavy armor is defense, life, power
I was just using speed and defense as an option, it could be anything they want. Could be extra health globes for heavy armor if they want, fact remains you chose your character to be a big heavy armor user and that will uniquely describe your character beside you just swapping armors around like your guy is a god of all classes.
Morrowind is my favorite game. I think the skill-based leveling system is superior to an experience-based levelling system.
However, I do not think this belongs in Diablo. If you're going to change the core mechanics of the game that vastly, you might as well just make a new game.
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Im not talking about using leveling up swords and your skills as a form of leveling up your character. Just his proficiency of using those items. A character with level 10 light armor will be better at using it then a character with level 1 light armor. You level up by getting experience, not by leveling up your sword.
Im not talking about using leveling up swords and your skills as a form of leveling up your character. Just his proficiency of using those items. A character with level 10 light armor will be better at using it then a character with level 1 light armor. You level up by getting experience, not by leveling up your sword.
Yeah, still, it's a huge change in the core principals of the gameplay. I like the way Diablo does things - that's why I've spent so many hours playing them.
Mount & Blade is a game that has weapon proficiencies that increase as you use them, as well as an experience-based levelling system, which I think is kind of like what you're talking about. And I think it really works well there. The idea your saying isn't bad, it has been put to use quite well in some cases, but I'd rather Diablo stay Diablo.
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Ok well can you explain how it would be bad for Diablo style playing?
I felt you know removing Diablo's stat points was kinda killing a huge principal of game play, or town portals, or health potions being main focus of health, or the way they change the inventory system multiple times.
I am glad you understand a little bit of what I am trying to say tho. I just would like to know why you feel it would be bad for Diablo. Diablo is about custimization and I feel this would really give you countless options for crafting your character to be just what you want them to be.
Look at Morrowind or WoW, each type of weapon (EX: Short sword, Broad swords, Great swords) have a level of proficiency thus weapon mastery but with much greater depth and without wasting skills. Diablo would allow an ungodly amount of customization in it if you were allowed to level up your characters proficency with certain armors and weapon types. You would level them up just like any other game where you use the weapon or armor alot you become more knowledgable about it and thus become better at using it.
It sounds like you really, really want an Elder Scrolls V. We aren't talking about Bethesda, we're talking about Blizzard.
Well, like you said I feel like the lack of stat-point customization and town portals are bad moves for Diablo too.
I'm just saying I like Diablo games for the mechanics that they have. I know every game in a series is going to change the mechanics a bit, but hopefully not too drastically. What you're proposing is a pretty huge change when you think about it, and there's no telling how it would effect the gameplay exactly. Since I have seen similar systems work out before, I'd say it would be fun, but it would differ too much from past Diablo games to truly fit in with the series.
Then again I'm from the crowd that believes Diablo and Diablo II are among the greatest games ever made, and even the slightest change in gameplay has a chance of ruining everuthing.
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imo it doesn't really matter what kind of system you implement, in the end you will always have people that put a label on one build and go: "this is the best build, it beats other builds by 4.53%". And then you will have the people that are interested in that sort of things go: "oh wow, 4.53% better? I'll go use that build". However there are also people that wouldn't care for such a thing and just play the builds they like. So no matter what system you come up with, there will always be one or a couple "best builds" (best being relative to each person).
Personally I think the runes are a good concept, and combined with the talent trees, it will give some form of customization. However I don't think it will be enough, unless it will be 40+ runes that are equally good. Im also quite confident Blizzard either has or will implement some other system that will add to the diversity.
As for your idea...hmm. I'm liking the mastery thing, where it would give you small bonusses, however this means that if I want to be an axe master for example, and whilest leveling I find a huge sword, that beats my current weapons damage by 300%, I would still be "restricted" to using my crappy axe, and tbh, I don't like restrictions =P. So it's a good idea, but it needs a bit of work.
stopped after
"Ok me and my friend were talking yesterday while I was at Blizzcon and I had to break the news to him that the stat points were allocated automatically for him. He was pissed. Now me and him have been fans of Blizzard since Diablo 1's release."
if he was a fan he would have known about auto-stats a year ago
stop trying to qq because blizzard if trying to balance a game
Barbarians will use different skills depending on what role they want to play.
Barbarians would equip these skills with runes to make them even more suitable for their role.
Barbarians will use different equipment to benefit the skills and the role they have chosen.
Barbarians will use different weapons depending on their skill choises to optimize the damage.
Barbarians that wants to be tanks would choose a shield.
what if i want a Barbarian that is fast and can dodge attacks instead of absorbing them?
in the past i'd have allocated stats differently so that he becomes a low HP but fast attack and high dodge character
what if i just want a pure tanker and want to have a super high HP barbarian with just enough strength to wear equipment but suck at attacking and killing mobs?
what if i want a Barbarian that is fast and can dodge attacks instead of absorbing them?
in the past i'd have allocated stats differently so that he becomes a low HP but fast attack and high dodge character
what if i just want a pure tanker and want to have a super high HP barbarian with just enough strength to wear equipment but suck at attacking and killing mobs?
This has probably been said before, and if it has give me the answer to what was said about it.
Here it goes:
Issue:
The Barbarian has no weapon masteries so far in the build beside dual wield and throw. This is saying the Barbarian is a master at all weapon types unless he decides to dual wield or throw. This will lead to every Barbarian in the end really being the same character aside from skill choices and runes.
Question:
Why limit your guy to only being customized by skills or a rune to change your skills which in the end everyone can copy and make the same Barbarian?
Theory:
Look at Morrowind or WoW, each type of weapon (EX: Short sword, Broad swords, Great swords) have a level of proficiency thus weapon mastery but with much greater depth and without wasting skills. Diablo would allow an ungodly amount of customization in it if you were allowed to level up your characters proficency with certain armors and weapon types. You would level them up just like any other game where you use the weapon or armor alot you become more knowledgable about it and thus become better at using it.
EX: A Barbarian using a light armor to increase his speed so he can chase people/monsters down. This is already in the game with armor grades but with each level in light armor you can make it so the Barbarian gets more defense wearing light armor, or an extra slight increase in speed.
EX2: A Barbarian wearing heavy armor can have it do the same, increase defense, maybe even increase life, or make it less cumbersome to wear.
This will allow you to essentially make your character how you want him, and will allow a far greater customization then skills or runes or stats which everyone will end up the same.
Now I figure start at level 1 with everything...max at level 100. Only 1 weapon type and armor type may hit 100 thus counting as a complete mastery. Once you hit that Master level you would gain special bonuses that would differ per item type. For example with the light armor you could gain +20% FRW or +30 dex. Now some may say well that just makes it so you have pure sword barbs or pure axe barbs, you can level every item up to atleast 50-99 and become efficient at using them but you wouldn't gain the mastery bonus unless you hit 100. So you are still open to killing or dueling with anything.
I know this is kinda what they are doing in WoW now, but believe it or not I can see no downfall to this.
Unlimited customization, really get to build your character how you want him, you are not going to run into the same type of character nearly as much as you do now or you might in the future with just a rune system being the customization.
Face it, people are going to crack the codes to the runes and figure out the top builds and thats it, unless Blizzard nerfs and patches the game hella lot you are just playing Diablo 2.5.
I would love for some feedback on this and hopefully even Bashioks view on this as to if they are planning on some system like this or if it has already been looked at and what flaws they found.
This has probably been said before, and if it has give me the answer to what was said about it.
Here it goes:
Issue:
The Barbarian has no weapon masteries so far in the build beside dual wield and throw. This is saying the Barbarian is a master at all weapon types unless he decides to dual wield or throw. This will lead to every Barbarian in the end really being the same character aside from skill choices and runes.
Question:
Why limit your guy to only being customized by skills or a rune to change your skills which in the end everyone can copy and make the same Barbarian?
Theory:
Look at Morrowind or WoW, each type of weapon (EX: Short sword, Broad swords, Great swords) have a level of proficiency thus weapon mastery but with much greater depth and without wasting skills. Diablo would allow an ungodly amount of customization in it if you were allowed to level up your characters proficency with certain armors and weapon types. You would level them up just like any other game where you use the weapon or armor alot you become more knowledgable about it and thus become better at using it.
EX: A Barbarian using a light armor to increase his speed so he can chase people/monsters down. This is already in the game with armor grades but with each level in light armor you can make it so the Barbarian gets more defense wearing light armor, or an extra slight increase in speed.
EX2: A Barbarian wearing heavy armor can have it do the same, increase defense, maybe even increase life, or make it less cumbersome to wear.
This will allow you to essentially make your character how you want him, and will allow a far greater customization then skills or runes or stats which everyone will end up the same.
Now I figure start at level 1 with everything...max at level 100. Only 1 weapon type and armor type may hit 100 thus counting as a complete mastery. Once you hit that Master level you would gain special bonuses that would differ per item type. For example with the light armor you could gain +20% FRW or +30 dex. Now some may say well that just makes it so you have pure sword barbs or pure axe barbs, you can level every item up to atleast 50-99 and become efficient at using them but you wouldn't gain the mastery bonus unless you hit 100. So you are still open to killing or dueling with anything.
I know this is kinda what they are doing in WoW now, but believe it or not I can see no downfall to this.
Unlimited customization, really get to build your character how you want him, you are not going to run into the same type of character nearly as much as you do now or you might in the future with just a rune system being the customization.
Face it, people are going to crack the codes to the runes and figure out the top builds and thats it, unless Blizzard nerfs and patches the game hella lot you are just playing Diablo 2.5.
I would love for some feedback on this and hopefully even Bashioks view on this as to if they are planning on some system like this or if it has already been looked at and what flaws they found.
So my answer to anybody who is disappointed at the automatic skill system, is that they are taking this into consideration with itemization, runes, and any other system they have yet to reveal to still allow a very large diversification to your character so you still can be quite different which will allow for more builds than D2 even had.
Also, this is entirely the wrong forum for this discussion.
And i should note he barb has a duel weild spec, two hand spec, and throwing spec, you could essentially use any two weapons you want, or any big sword mace hammer thing you want. Why on earth would you want to restrict yourself to what you used most till you were level 10? And what if I was a wizard, do I care if I can hit with a staff or not? No, I only care about the specs on the staff or wand or w/e. And if you want a crazy type build then your idea would only go against that more than it would help if you ask me.
This is Diablo, customization is key, limiting me to a certain weapon because thats what I used most is not cool in any way. I personally love the idea of auto skill points. I don't see how making them automatic would really remove any customization, in the end how far did 100 str go? It was only for equips and now there are no stat requirements. Too me it's just one less thing i have to worry about screwing up.
First of all light armor to make you run faster to chase monsters? Why? Wouldn't the monsters be chaseing you?
Second you said a barb that wears heavy armor has more defense. Well yeah that already exists. Doesn't platemail already have more defense that leather?
I'm sorry I just don't understand your logic right now about these armor masteries.
Lets look here:
Runes on skills...OK how many runes they say? 12 tops? OK how many useful skills are there? Lets take Witch Doctors fear skill for example...that's kinda useless. The runes are there to try and make useless skills seem useable, but will they top usefull skills with runes? Do you honestly think everyone will be different? You obviously did not play Diablo 2 before .9. Everyone was kinda different and it was great, but then people caught on and figured out builds that worked. Same thing will happen with D3 wether you want it to or not. The amount of runes they put in don't mean anything when only 2/12 are going to be used.
They limit your character to where you cant wield a staff on barb...who cares? You still have short swords, broad swords, great swords, 1 handed axes, 2 handed axes, ect ,ect. There are plenty and I mean plenty of options to pick from.
How would this system limit you? You choose what you want to do with your guy. You are saying you are going to carry a pole arm and a sword and an axe and use them all? You are honestly going to tell me while you are killing monsters and pvp you are going to be swapping your weapons in and out?
Is that the best you can come up with to down this idea? Cause it failed. This idea lets you make your guy how you want but also allows the freedom to use whatever you want. Sure you wont be as good at a sword as an axe if you master axe, but that doesn't mean your guy cant do anything with a sword, you just wont gain the bonuses.
Also I posted this in the suggestion area but apparently noone checks that, so great on getting feedback.
For donsro:
Thanks for actually replying. I will try and explain. I love PvP and if you like PvP you would understand chasing people is essential with a barbarian so the light armor example is really meant for pvp. I can make it PvM related tho, say you are dying, need to run...can you honestly run away with a giant heavy armor on? With a light armor you would be able to escape much quicker.
The heavy armor analogy I used for more defense is it would give you an extra boost of defense beside the fact it already gives you more. Like holy shield gave more defense for the paladin.
Light armor is used to agility, quickness, evading
Heavy armor is defense, life, power
I was just using speed and defense as an option, it could be anything they want. Could be extra health globes for heavy armor if they want, fact remains you chose your character to be a big heavy armor user and that will uniquely describe your character beside you just swapping armors around like your guy is a god of all classes.
However, I do not think this belongs in Diablo. If you're going to change the core mechanics of the game that vastly, you might as well just make a new game.
My typical train of thought: Everything -> Sex -> Diablo
Mount & Blade is a game that has weapon proficiencies that increase as you use them, as well as an experience-based levelling system, which I think is kind of like what you're talking about. And I think it really works well there. The idea your saying isn't bad, it has been put to use quite well in some cases, but I'd rather Diablo stay Diablo.
My typical train of thought: Everything -> Sex -> Diablo
I felt you know removing Diablo's stat points was kinda killing a huge principal of game play, or town portals, or health potions being main focus of health, or the way they change the inventory system multiple times.
I am glad you understand a little bit of what I am trying to say tho. I just would like to know why you feel it would be bad for Diablo. Diablo is about custimization and I feel this would really give you countless options for crafting your character to be just what you want them to be.
It sounds like you really, really want an Elder Scrolls V. We aren't talking about Bethesda, we're talking about Blizzard.
I'm just saying I like Diablo games for the mechanics that they have. I know every game in a series is going to change the mechanics a bit, but hopefully not too drastically. What you're proposing is a pretty huge change when you think about it, and there's no telling how it would effect the gameplay exactly. Since I have seen similar systems work out before, I'd say it would be fun, but it would differ too much from past Diablo games to truly fit in with the series.
Then again I'm from the crowd that believes Diablo and Diablo II are among the greatest games ever made, and even the slightest change in gameplay has a chance of ruining everuthing.
My typical train of thought: Everything -> Sex -> Diablo
Personally I think the runes are a good concept, and combined with the talent trees, it will give some form of customization. However I don't think it will be enough, unless it will be 40+ runes that are equally good. Im also quite confident Blizzard either has or will implement some other system that will add to the diversity.
As for your idea...hmm. I'm liking the mastery thing, where it would give you small bonusses, however this means that if I want to be an axe master for example, and whilest leveling I find a huge sword, that beats my current weapons damage by 300%, I would still be "restricted" to using my crappy axe, and tbh, I don't like restrictions =P. So it's a good idea, but it needs a bit of work.
"Ok me and my friend were talking yesterday while I was at Blizzcon and I had to break the news to him that the stat points were allocated automatically for him. He was pissed. Now me and him have been fans of Blizzard since Diablo 1's release."
if he was a fan he would have known about auto-stats a year ago
stop trying to qq because blizzard if trying to balance a game
actually what blizz can do is for example like d2 if u have a wwbarb/classic, u can choose the 2h mace for power or 2h spear for range
thats a perfect example of a good balance
lol what did you delete the other one because people disagreed?
in the past i'd have allocated stats differently so that he becomes a low HP but fast attack and high dodge character
what if i just want a pure tanker and want to have a super high HP barbarian with just enough strength to wear equipment but suck at attacking and killing mobs?
Play D2...
I posted here first and got 2 answers..well only 1.
I posted there after and got...2 pages so you choose which was better?