Anyways, i'm not going to go over every single point you tried to make, seeing that i've (and with me hundreds of others, from whatever "side" they're on) have heard them being repeated a kazillion times before and none of them prove anything one way or another, much less debunk Blizzards (WoW's) influence over D3 (regardless whether you or me or him or her think its something good or bad).
The "facts" you have stated are merely vague speculations and hypotheses at best. "If WoW didn't exist then, a and b and c" aren't facts by any definition. "WoW borrowed from D2" doesn't factually disprove D3 borrowing from WoW by any definition. And i could go over each and every point you made the exact same way. (which i did, but apparently was mistaken as "trolling", which is hilarious)
Where was i? Ah yeah, the meaning of this thread, it doesn't have any apart from simply restating ones opinions about the matter, ad sickfinitum, even though it claimed to be different, refreshing, new, informative, intellectual, factual. I think its apparently obvious its none of those, by a long shot. And i don't think anyone (whether or not they agree with your opinions) is going to disagree with me when i say that. So yeah, it would be harsh to tell you this thread is a waste of space and time, so i'm not going to. (being harsh is trolling) But that's how i feel about it and to be frank its, apart from giving me a headache, not helping the community in any way, shape or form. Or do you have the delusion making the billionth "how D3 is, or isn't, like WoW" topic is going to help anybody? (editedit: I'm not saying you're delusional, just in case someone thinks i'm trolling, or flaming or anything which might be some sort of justified way to delete my post)
So yeah, call me heartless, but i want to see this thread die, once and for all.
edit: I almost forgot, i'm supposed to say "i'm not trolling", else people will for no reason whatsoever obviously assume i'm trolling, so here it goes "i'm not trolling".
Cheerios, or Froot Loops.
To be very honest, the only reason I really started this thread was because some other guy started a bitch rant thread about the QQers, and it got shut down real fast because it was absolutely poor from the beginning. I like to think most of my points are pretty valid, for if you listen to a lot of what Jay Wilson and others have stated about these decisions (whether it be their decision for it in WoW or Diablo 3), it really just seems they had a general direction in mind that would have continued over even if WoW never existed. Thus why I carefully used the term "probably would have happened if WoW never existed".
I really just wanted to show people how to make a thread adressing an issue instead of making a post complaining about other peoples' complaining.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
There are no stupid questions, just a bunch of inquisitive idiots.
I don't think there was anything wrong with what you posted Morden you are entitled to your opinion and to express it. I'm not sure why my posting of Fruity Cheerios and Fruity Loops as an example of an instance in consumer culture where one product influenced another needed to be removed. If you really think about it maybe Cheerios copied fruit loops, but fruit loops probably barrowed the idea of having rings of cereal from cheerios and the whole genre of cereal originated from people eating stale popcorn in milk. It's all interrelated.
WoW is a pretty bad game and I don't think people want Diablo to go in that direction: namely, the limitations and simplifications of a conveyor MMORPG. I personally am for auto-stats, but many people are not, and many of us do not like the weapon limitations, as well, because that sounds too much like Blizzard saying it knows what's best for us, the exact attitude they have in WoW. Maybe it worked for WoW. I don't want to see it in DIII at the moment. That's the one similarity I'm worried about.
You may think WoW is a bad game but the guys that are making D3 don't.
...
And who knows what people want ? I understand and agree that many changes have a "negative" nature (auto stats and weapon limitations as you exemplified). With "negative" i'm trying to say that those are changes that people can hate it or don't care, but people will never like then. It's easy to imagine someone getting pissed because he can't equipe a spear in the wizard but it's pretty hard to picture someone happy with the fact that he can't equipe that weapon in his character. Those are changes that add nothing to the game, only takes away.
I'm 100% sure that D3 team are the group of persons that more want D3 to be a good game. Then why would they cleary add somehing that makes the game worse to some and simply add nothing to others ?
Because some of those "negative" changes open space to improve the game in other areas or add something that compensates that.
For exemple, I take some game design classes just for fun and sometimes i have to design a gauntlet in a turn-based system. Using white wolf (wich is a *very* simple system compered to eletronic games systems) i have around 30 times more work to balance a gauntlet using custom stats (with a chararacter with a avarage number of points) then with a auto stats, because i have to take the win/try % to check out the difficult level of every single possibility. Then the result of choosing a custom stats system is that i have to make all the enemies the same or very similar or else i will have a endless work to do... The other option is leave everything imbalanced and have a titan quest-like gauntlet were some builds wipe out everything with any effort and other builds simple can't win the fight.
I kno blizz use proper softwares to calculate all that stuff but we can't really compare a D10 based system with 3 variables and Diablo.
By cutting out this part of the game i'm sure that they will be able to creat more elaborated and well-balanced gauntlets, as also alot more freedom to creat items and such.
I'm not saying blizz are a godlike company that never fails. I will just save my stones to the day I play the game and can understand it as a whole.
Every game you have ever played has barrowed and been inspired by what has come before, even the first video games were inspired most likely by board games such as dungeons and dragons. You realize I hope that Diablo I and II both barrowed heavily from mythology, popular culture and literary artworks (Such as Lord of the Rings) as well as previous games. Just because it was probably one of your first introductions to some of the concepts does not mean that the game existed in a vacuum impervious to outside influence. Everything ever created in a way is in a cause and effect pattern even games that try to be the exact opposite of what's come before are in fact just mirroring something that has already happened. At this point in time having such a rich history of culture and games to barrow from it would be absolutely foolhardy to think anything you make doesn't have a connection to something else. A good creator would look at what's come before and utilize that to the best degree to move the genre or craft forward no matter what the medium. Again like I said as a consumer you have a right to say that you don't like the colors, or you don't like a feature or choice for the game and NO ONE has to agree with you for you to have a valid opinion. It's just odd to me that you think everything in life is an original idea without precedent. While that is theoretically possible, I think it would be nearly impossible to realize considering the conditions. Many of the newer things that we see in games now are due to the fact that they weren't possible earlier on, but that doesn't mean that they weren't thought of in another medium. You need to remember that just because something has been done before, does not mean that you shouldn't try to make it better or can't. I think it's extremely disadvantageous to look at the situation and truly believe that the people working and Blizzard are anything, but hard working people trying to do their best. They may make a game you personally don't like, that's fine I'm sure they can live with that as you can never make everyone happy, but do you really think that they are sitting at the job thinking, "Hey I am going to purposefully set out to ruin someone's day!". Very little in life, if anything is perfect.
First off, lol@you not knowing how to spell "borrowed". Now that that's out of my system, I can move on to completely destroying your annoyingly long post.
You are all pissing me off by stressing on an exaggeration that I have made on purpose in order to more-so convey my point. I KNOW they borrowed some things from some things, don't patronize me by explaining it to me like I somehow did not know that. Men didn't start building skyscrapers last year, but that doesn't mean they should build one with various similarities to other ones. Stop making long posts explaining something so ridiculous, that it insults my intelligence and posts. I already know all the "stuff" (I said stuff because saying bullshit would insult you) that you crammed in your vague attempt at debunking my rebuttal; stop acting like you created water by saying what you said- it's all already known, but for some unbeknown reason, you presumed that I didn't based on something I said to better convey a rather simple post. Please..PLEASE, don't do that again; it's just..wrong.
Now, moving on to the next expert in astrophysics!
Quote from "Kiserai" »
If status effect icons in the L-L corner are causing this much irritation in you I think you have problems, and I'm not exaggerating.
One very small game mechanic that may or may not even make the final game, borrowed not (just) from WoW but from about a thousand other games, and they're 'undermining thousands of people' and 'hiding behind Bashiok' ?
I really just don't get people with these WoW comparisons. They are 2 completely different kinds of games -- different genres, different aesthetics, different themes and atmosphere, etc. etc. and a handful of very small mechanics or similarities pop up and some of you guys are on the verge of popping arteries just because you didn't dig WoW.
Meph you've always seemed cool to me and I like you man but you gotta take a step back and breathe, here...you're better than this.
I'm really kinda done arguing this particular topic (I know I know, I'm doing it right now) but honestly I just can't wait until D3 launches and everyone plays it and it's a blockbuster success (if you think it's going to flop with Blizzard's track record you're an absolute fool) and we all sit around laughing at the color controversy, the 'it's going to be like WoW' fear mongering, the lament of the missing necro, and basically all the other things that seem to attract knee-jerk, 'Blizzard-is-ruining-D3' reactions.
I get it, I really do -- some people here really, really hate WoW and really, really love Diablo, but like the other ridiculously overblown 'controversies' there's not much substance to this one at all, and the 'outrage' should probably be saved for when Blizzard really does to something screwy with D3 (if they do), because at this point they know there will be a portion of the fan-base that shits a flaming brick of rage at every turn no matter what they do, and if they really do mess something up and people get angry they're more likely not to listen now, thanks to bull like this.
I have problems? No shit, don't we all? Telling me I have problems over such a benign, ridiculous thing, just reflects your inadequacy in not only psychology, but in judging people in general. You sir, should get your cranium looked at, and I'm not exaggerating! (Lol, see what I did there? I mimiced your wording. God damn I'm slick!)
No, they're not "borrowing" from wow, and they're not undermining us all and hiding behind Bashiok based on that sole thing that you picked up from the entirety of my already small, real explanation and information lacking post. They fixed something that wasn't already broken, and they pulled something out of their ass that just gives people who say the game is turning mroe and more into WoW something to chew on. Please, I beg you, read and understand my post before trying to act smart; it can do you wonders, compadre.
Me not "digging" WoW is an entirely different matter. If you understood my post, you would have come to the AMAZING conclusion that I don't actually think the game is turning into WoW, rather than just knicking unnecessary things from it, and giving the supporters of such an argument more things to binge on.
You think I'm cool? Well, join the gang, but that doesn't have anything to do with anything. I should step back and breathe? I made a couple of small, opinion exposing posts, and you're riding this like you found the fucking holy grail. You sir, should breathe.
The rest of the stuff you said means nothing to me, and therefore, do not need a rebuttal. Join me next time in another episode of "Destroying the Argument of People Who Completely Raped the Point I Was Trying to Convey" !
Oh, wait, there's another astrophysician trying to make his debute!
Quote from "Goretrail" »
Is the whole series not just a rip off of Gauntlet?
No. Absolutely, no. Go study Video Game History..I think they have that class in your local school/university..or kindergarten, judging by the immense lolz that consumed after reading your post.
Thank you all for reading my brilliance. I know you laughed a lot, and agreed with me a lot, and for that I tell you.... THANK YOU!
Yeah, I'm going to have to assume that means no LAN for Diablo 3 either. Thats a crock of shit if you ask me, how hard is it to let you connect over your own network? Fuck, I'm doing it right now for Diablo 2 XD.
There is no way in hell that isn't just a scam to make us all buy more copies of the game, and fuck the people who can't afford internet.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
There are no stupid questions, just a bunch of inquisitive idiots.
Yeah, I'm going to have to assume that means no LAN for Diablo 3 either. Thats a crock of shit if you ask me, how hard is it to let you connect over your own network? Fuck, I'm doing it right now for Diablo 2 XD.
There is no way in hell that isn't just a scam to make us all buy more copies of the game, and fuck the people who can't afford internet.
Yeah, because everybody in the world gets 20 MB speed internet for 20 cents like Westerners do. People should stop making up shit out of their own asses (I know shit comes from asses, no need for the next genius to come along explaining that to me in a two paged essay). I want LAN, sure. I'll be getting a faster connection, sure. But millions of others, stuck in the same shoes as I am, won't be able to. No need to say "fuck them", you filthy mouthed mean teen !
This thread is now locked on account of pervasive violations of the following rules:
Quote from Revised Rules - July 19, 2009 »
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It is now closed. This does not only apply to people with deleted threads.
If you have any questions, please refer to the board rules, located here or at the top of every thread listing of every forum, and then please PM myself or another moderator or administrator and we will be happy to help you in any way that we can, so long as the PM is polite, respectful, coherent, and non-inflammatory.
-Seth
(P.S.: Sorry OP, you had a very good, organized, and civil opening post, but it seems some of our members are unable to have a grown-up discussion without insulting other members, ranting, et cetera.)
Is the whole series not just a rip off of Gauntlet?
Que?
>{Dynasty DiabloFans Thread}<
Artist Portfolio: http://www.JonathanSabella.com
What shall we discuss next folks?
To be very honest, the only reason I really started this thread was because some other guy started a bitch rant thread about the QQers, and it got shut down real fast because it was absolutely poor from the beginning. I like to think most of my points are pretty valid, for if you listen to a lot of what Jay Wilson and others have stated about these decisions (whether it be their decision for it in WoW or Diablo 3), it really just seems they had a general direction in mind that would have continued over even if WoW never existed. Thus why I carefully used the term "probably would have happened if WoW never existed".
I really just wanted to show people how to make a thread adressing an issue instead of making a post complaining about other peoples' complaining.
>{Dynasty DiabloFans Thread}<
Artist Portfolio: http://www.JonathanSabella.com
...
And who knows what people want ? I understand and agree that many changes have a "negative" nature (auto stats and weapon limitations as you exemplified). With "negative" i'm trying to say that those are changes that people can hate it or don't care, but people will never like then. It's easy to imagine someone getting pissed because he can't equipe a spear in the wizard but it's pretty hard to picture someone happy with the fact that he can't equipe that weapon in his character. Those are changes that add nothing to the game, only takes away.
I'm 100% sure that D3 team are the group of persons that more want D3 to be a good game. Then why would they cleary add somehing that makes the game worse to some and simply add nothing to others ?
Because some of those "negative" changes open space to improve the game in other areas or add something that compensates that.
For exemple, I take some game design classes just for fun and sometimes i have to design a gauntlet in a turn-based system. Using white wolf (wich is a *very* simple system compered to eletronic games systems) i have around 30 times more work to balance a gauntlet using custom stats (with a chararacter with a avarage number of points) then with a auto stats, because i have to take the win/try % to check out the difficult level of every single possibility. Then the result of choosing a custom stats system is that i have to make all the enemies the same or very similar or else i will have a endless work to do... The other option is leave everything imbalanced and have a titan quest-like gauntlet were some builds wipe out everything with any effort and other builds simple can't win the fight.
I kno blizz use proper softwares to calculate all that stuff but we can't really compare a D10 based system with 3 variables and Diablo.
By cutting out this part of the game i'm sure that they will be able to creat more elaborated and well-balanced gauntlets, as also alot more freedom to creat items and such.
I'm not saying blizz are a godlike company that never fails. I will just save my stones to the day I play the game and can understand it as a whole.
Side Note: WoW haters are not alone:
http://www.kontraband.com/videos/18822/Hitlers-LAN-Party/#show
First off, lol@you not knowing how to spell "borrowed". Now that that's out of my system, I can move on to completely destroying your annoyingly long post.
You are all pissing me off by stressing on an exaggeration that I have made on purpose in order to more-so convey my point. I KNOW they borrowed some things from some things, don't patronize me by explaining it to me like I somehow did not know that. Men didn't start building skyscrapers last year, but that doesn't mean they should build one with various similarities to other ones. Stop making long posts explaining something so ridiculous, that it insults my intelligence and posts. I already know all the "stuff" (I said stuff because saying bullshit would insult you) that you crammed in your vague attempt at debunking my rebuttal; stop acting like you created water by saying what you said- it's all already known, but for some unbeknown reason, you presumed that I didn't based on something I said to better convey a rather simple post. Please..PLEASE, don't do that again; it's just..wrong.
Now, moving on to the next expert in astrophysics!
I have problems? No shit, don't we all? Telling me I have problems over such a benign, ridiculous thing, just reflects your inadequacy in not only psychology, but in judging people in general. You sir, should get your cranium looked at, and I'm not exaggerating! (Lol, see what I did there? I mimiced your wording. God damn I'm slick!)
No, they're not "borrowing" from wow, and they're not undermining us all and hiding behind Bashiok based on that sole thing that you picked up from the entirety of my already small, real explanation and information lacking post. They fixed something that wasn't already broken, and they pulled something out of their ass that just gives people who say the game is turning mroe and more into WoW something to chew on. Please, I beg you, read and understand my post before trying to act smart; it can do you wonders, compadre.
Me not "digging" WoW is an entirely different matter. If you understood my post, you would have come to the AMAZING conclusion that I don't actually think the game is turning into WoW, rather than just knicking unnecessary things from it, and giving the supporters of such an argument more things to binge on.
You think I'm cool? Well, join the gang, but that doesn't have anything to do with anything. I should step back and breathe? I made a couple of small, opinion exposing posts, and you're riding this like you found the fucking holy grail. You sir, should breathe.
The rest of the stuff you said means nothing to me, and therefore, do not need a rebuttal. Join me next time in another episode of "Destroying the Argument of People Who Completely Raped the Point I Was Trying to Convey" !
Oh, wait, there's another astrophysician trying to make his debute!
No. Absolutely, no. Go study Video Game History..I think they have that class in your local school/university..or kindergarten, judging by the immense lolz that consumed after reading your post.
Thank you all for reading my brilliance. I know you laughed a lot, and agreed with me a lot, and for that I tell you.... THANK YOU!
Cheers, peasants.
Rise and rise again, until lambs become lions
Yeah, I'm going to have to assume that means no LAN for Diablo 3 either. Thats a crock of shit if you ask me, how hard is it to let you connect over your own network? Fuck, I'm doing it right now for Diablo 2 XD.
There is no way in hell that isn't just a scam to make us all buy more copies of the game, and fuck the people who can't afford internet.
Yeah, because everybody in the world gets 20 MB speed internet for 20 cents like Westerners do. People should stop making up shit out of their own asses (I know shit comes from asses, no need for the next genius to come along explaining that to me in a two paged essay). I want LAN, sure. I'll be getting a faster connection, sure. But millions of others, stuck in the same shoes as I am, won't be able to. No need to say "fuck them", you filthy mouthed mean teen !
Rise and rise again, until lambs become lions
It is now closed. This does not only apply to people with deleted threads.
If you have any questions, please refer to the board rules, located here or at the top of every thread listing of every forum, and then please PM myself or another moderator or administrator and we will be happy to help you in any way that we can, so long as the PM is polite, respectful, coherent, and non-inflammatory.
-Seth
(P.S.: Sorry OP, you had a very good, organized, and civil opening post, but it seems some of our members are unable to have a grown-up discussion without insulting other members, ranting, et cetera.)