So, I just saw the closed thread about people crying "Diablo 3 is becoming WoW". I personally don't share that shallow belief with anybody who has it. I personally do not like the approach the last post had, for all it did was complain about people's complaining. Instead of creating a post to mimic that tactic of QQ prevention, I have decided to create an informative list of facts and concepts to debunk the myth that "Diablo 3 is becoming WoW".
First thing is first, the high majority of WoW's mechanics were taken from Diablo 2, improved upon, and tweaked to work more for an MMO.
The only real things Diablo 3 and WoW have in common (that were not borrowed from Diablo 2 in the first place) are the Auto-stat system, respecs, dynamic combat UI, item tranfers (such as shared stash), and more use of color.
The Auto-stat system is not necessarily being stolen from WoW. WoW was actually going to let you choose your stats in the beginning (much like Diablo 2). However, the developers decided that for both Diablo 2 and WoW, the only real purpose of choosing stats was to break your character. Instead of implementing a stat respec as many games have in the past, they just decided on the auto-stat system. If WoW never existed, we would probably still have auto-stats.
WoW was not even close to the first game to have talent respecs. Many games came up with this system because they found that it was too easy to break your character. Many people also wanted to be able to play around with skills without having to reroll (which many people, including Blizzard, saw as a hassle and flaw in Diablo 2). Because of this, Blizzard implemented respecs into WoW. Even if WoW never existed, we would probably still have respecs.
WoW's UI style is probably one of the best things that will ever happen to Diablo. No longer will we be limited to our left/right mouse buttons; we now have the ability to make our combat significantly more dynamic without having to switch skills before using them. In no way or form is dynamic combat a WoW signature, everybody these days wants more dynamic combat for these kinds of games. Even if WoW never existed, we would probably still have this UI.
Diablo 2 always gave us the ability to share items between our own characters in multiplayer (thus allowing for twinking and muling), it was just a big hastle having to go through another player (or a second account) to do so. WoW, being an MMO with modern technology, easily fixed this issue via their mailing system which allowed for additional player-to-player item transfer as well. Blizzard plans to allow us to share items between characters not because it was was in WoW, but because it is more convenient and is less risky than trusting another player (as people would do anyway if the item sharing issue was not fixed). Making you go through another player just to share items with your other characters leaves a lot of room open for griefing, something Blizzard intends to cut down on in Diablo 3. The only way to truly prevent item sharing in Diablo 3 would be to make all items "soulbound", thus adding to Diablo 3's similarities to WoW and destroying the trading aspect of Diablo. If WoW never existed, we would still either be getting item sharing or doing it the old fashioned way.
Many people have taken one look at the signifigantly little amount of Diablo 3 content Blizzard has released, and immediatly state that the color scheme is becoming less "gothic" and more like WoW. The first thing you have to realize is that when going from 2D to 3D, that same classic Diablo 1 and 2 style no longer works as well as many would like it. WoW has nothing to do with that. The second thing one must realise is that all we have seen are the early parts of the game. Also, 99% of Diablo 1 took place in inside environments. The first three acts of Diablo 2 were absolutely full of color, especially the new outside environments. Diablo 3 needs color even more than Diablo 2, and so far they have did a pretty good job of it. None of this has anything to do with WoW. Lastly for color, that old and ugly "green hue" everybody sees in the WWI Gameplay Video (that many have comlained about specifically) is dead and gone. As of Blizzcon 2008, the Cathedral looks as it does in this video: very dark with warm lighting, using the green hue in 2 appropriate places linked to King Leodric to make it look spooky. As one can see, Diablo 3 now seems to really be stepping up on the "dark and scary" factor in comparison to what we have seen in the past.
As you can see, I have spent a lot of time thinking upon this subject. I hope this post has brought light to many of the issues that still (somehow) exist within the community in regards to Diablo 3 becoming too much like WoW. All facts about the developers and their decisions (such as WoW origionally having stat-choice) have all been confirmed via Q&As, Video Interviews, and other random WWI/Blizzcon Videos. Please pass this information to anybody who still believes that Diablo 3 is becoming too much like WoW so we can all move to a new era of intelligent belief. Thank you for your time.
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There are no stupid questions, just a bunch of inquisitive idiots.
Bravo, very well done. Great diablo 3 points that need to be cleared up. WoW never hurt anyone, yet people still continue to bash it(probably due to the monthly fee's)
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Even if one takes every reefer madness allegation of the prohibitionists at face value, marijuana prohibition has done far more harm to far more people than marijuana ever could
There is a lot more reasons than that.
-inventory layout
-bagging system
-pants/shoulders
-skill trees looking very similar to wow
-chat box or at least thats what people think it is
-barb using fury instead of mana
-quest icons
Im not saying these are bad things, but I think all the little wow like things get people worried. I could care less as long as it makes diablo 3 a better game.
There is a lot more reasons than that.
-inventory layout
-bagging system
-pants/shoulders
-skill trees looking very similar to wow
-chat box or at least thats what people think it is
-barb using fury instead of mana
-quest icons
Im not saying these are bad things, but I think all the little wow like things get people worried. I could care less as long as it makes diablo 3 a better game.
Rofl, all pretty much nit picky examples I could see a hardcore Diablo 2 fan coming up with (not that I am labeling you one, don't take that statement as me pointing fingers).
The new inventory system is much more efficient than the classic tetris style. Capability of increasing the size (be it bags, which I haven't heard of yet, or other means) as you progress through the game is convenient as well. Probably would have saw this change without WoW.
Pants/shoulders are just a technology upgrade. Its kinda hard to tell the difference between different shoulders and pants when your character is that small and 2D. It has little to do with WoW as well.
The WoW skill trees revamped the Diablo 2 concept by adding passive bonuses. It only seems natural that Blizzard would bring this great new idea back into the Diablo universe. Probably could have gotten this anyway.
Chat box? People really bitch about them making a chat box? Thats just a convenience upgrade, so you can scroll back through previous messages, even if it is from WoW.
That quest icon, which was used in Warcraft 3 and WoW, were both pretty much jacked from Diablo 2 as well. They changed the way it looked in War3 and WoW tho.
The only real thing in that list hard to justify is the Barbarian using Fury. That system is still a little iffy, but it is a little different that WoWs. That system has been used in quite a few other RPGs, I'm afraid. Not quite a WoW unique. I am actually curious to see what they can do with that system.
I too just want to see Diablo 3 become a better game, and if that means taking things from a somewhat similar game that they made, so be it. Its not like we are going to have raids and shit.
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There are no stupid questions, just a bunch of inquisitive idiots.
As well written and descriptive as it is, unfortunately people will always find ways to complain. Some people just have a natural urge to make a fuss about something, to rant and to release anger, for whatever reasons they have. You will never be able to list ALL the things in common with WoW, because people can draw the most abstract connections, trust me, some of them are ridiculous.
The reason this "similarity to WoW" issue is so bad is that, although there were a number of intelligent people arguing intellectually, they were reinforced by people who simply hated WoW and drew hate connections everywhere. I don't mind the people who create strong arguments that may actually significantly affect game-play, its those people who make pointless arguments, arguing for things that don't even matter much.
-inventory layout
-bagging system
-pants/shoulders
-skill trees looking very similar to wow
-chat box or at least thats what people think it is
-barb using fury instead of mana
-quest icons
I KNOW you just stated those, I know you agree to as long as Blizzard makes a good game. But other than a Barb using fury, all those are perfect examples of things that don't make or break a game. Most of them are just appearance...its almost as bad as, "I hate you, just because I think you are ugly".
Man, if only people would be this picky for crappy games...like Loki. I fear for their health...
Wow Doppelganger, a very harsh approach in evaluating his argument...
As intelligent as it might be to quote every point of discussion, you really only had one point to share, that is, that WoW had it and now Diablo does (or something similar), thus Diablo is turning into WoW. Next time, just state that one point.
The way I see this argument is that Morden chose to to look at the things that ARE common with WoW. If he had instead argued the things were different, you're argument wouldn't be as sound. Because of his approach in arguing his point, you have a major advantage, because all his points are obviously stating that WoW did have it and now Diablo does. Just repeating it with a negative connotation DOES NOT bring in any new information. Instead it would be great if you were to share WHY you think these similarities are bad.
You are just being plain negative here. Your arguments aren't constructive in developing the discussion. All it does, is make him feel bad, and that sucks for everyone.
Now before you counter my statement, saying, this select reply isn't being constructive either. My ORIGINAL topic is the one previously posted. I seriously don't mind if you dislike the idea of Diablo turning to WoW, opinions are great. We all love to discuss in a peaceful manner.
Not really, he was going to debunk something, well he didn't, sorry for pointing that out.
Pointing 10times the same thing, without giving any opinion or constructive comment isn't a way to argue, it's only telling him: 'Look, I don't like your arguments, come with more pls, kthx'
Quote from "Doppelganger" »
Its all that needed to be said, thats how poor his arguments are. Going point after point is just to make sure people "get it".
Pointing 10times the same thing, without giving any opinion or constructive comment isn't a way to argue, it's only telling him: 'Look, I don't like your arguments, come with more pls, kthx'
Quote from "Doppelganger" »
I'm sorry but, where did he bring in any "new information"? Where is his big revelation which would supposedly prove something we didn't know already? He just summed up some similarities between D3 and WoW, and argued how they might be good, and i might agree with some of them, but that wasn't the freaking point he tried to make in this thread was it?
Pointing 10times the same thing, without giving any opinion or constructive comment isn't a way to argue, it's only telling him: 'Look, I don't like your arguments, come with more pls, kthx'
Quote from "Doppelganger" »
Nope i'm not, if he didn't make false claims then i would gladly (dis)agree with his opinions, but he didn't. His post was supposedly to prevent QQing by proving something, he failed, massively. And i don't say that because i disagree with him on everything (because i don't), i say this because all he achieves to do is keep on polarizing the discussion with BS claims and between the line flames towards the people that don't agree with him.
Pointing 10times the same thing, without giving any opinion or constructive comment isn't a way to argue, it's only telling him: 'Look, I don't like your arguments, come with more pls, kthx'
Quote from "Doppelganger" »
See, you for no reason whatsoever simply jump to the conclusion i dislike each and anything which moves Diablo into WoW territory, while in reality the only thing i did was without opinion point out the obvious, namely he didn't debunk shit.
Pointing 10times the same thing, without giving any opinion or constructive comment isn't a way to argue, it's only telling him: 'Look, I don't like your arguments, come with more pls, kthx'
-
Personally, I don't mind if there are some similarities with WoW, as long as it makes the game a better experience.
If you want to see what a cheap copy of WoW looks like, go try Runes of Magic.
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If you can't amaze people with your intelligence, confuse them with your bullshit.
@Doppelganger : I'm sorry, I'm a troll only when I see the kind of arguments you posted in your first post.
Try to come up with some points yourself, instead of saying: "You failed to rebunk anything" at each points he wrote. He's explaining why it isn't that bad that some points are similar to WoW, he's not trying to argue how these poionts are inexistant...
One of his points is that there's an evolution in the game designing, and that even if WoW wasn't there, most improvements that was first in WoW would still have been in Diablo3. He KNOWS that some features of Diablo3 will be similar, but he's explaining how 'similar' doesnt mean 'the game is turning into WoW' and then you only come saying: 'It is like WoW, you fail.' when in fact, you simply refuse to hear what he's trying to explain. If you disagree with it, explain it in another way than writing that he fails to show Diablo3 isn't turning into WoW.
I can't understand, he's the one who started the thread, and you are telling him things like:
I don't believe we were going to discuss "what would be best for Diablo", because that is subjective.
What if he wants to discuss about it? What if thats the point of his thread?
And yes, my answer"ing to your post was some kind of trolling, but I also gave my opinion after. If you can't understand that your reply was simply rude and not contributing to the discussion in any point, you simply shouldn't take part in it.
I'm sorry I made you think I'm a troll, but I'm only using a similar posting approach than in your first post. Using your deduction methods, does that mean you're also a troll, since my way to post is similar to yours?
@Ivaron : I think you're making some important points here, that's probably one big reason why. I also played WoW, and of course some parts should'nt be brought in Diablo3, but I'm trusting Blizzard, they heard often enough that players dont want Diablo3 to be another WoW. I'm sure they'll make a very interresting new Diablo universe, with some important improvements NEW to Diablo3, and some coming from WoW too.
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If you can't amaze people with your intelligence, confuse them with your bullshit.
^ dud up there is a very serious and scary cat
^ dud ontop of this guy up there i mean, man lurked u always get in the way
First off whats up with the whole "ur a troll" thing i dont get it
Now for what i have to say is simple. I think what Morden was trying to say is that despite WoW they would likely be making these same changes to D3. Personally i think that as long as the gameplay stays in sync with D2 there is no way it can be turning into WoW. Why? first there two completely different genres they just cant become similar to each other. Second, being someone who has only played WoW for like 2-3 months 2 years ago i think i have a less biased point of view and the changes their making seem cool and not in any way negative. and last WoW is a more hack- and think about it or u'll die and Diablo is more a hack- and blast away everyone's mother who gets in ur way. What i think of the art style is basically that its the same is D2 with better graphics and more detailed colors.
P.S. anyone ready to criticize my comment, go ahead, ill just go cry in my bedroom.:(jk
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The one who makes it doesn't make it for himself. The one who buys it doesn't buy it for himself. The one who needs it doesn't know it when he needs it.
Yes I've read the intro, the post, and the outro, but I think we simply don't have the same way to read& interpret a post. I wont even bother to answer this since that thread is only turning into the 2 of us arguing.
I will simply remember that a forum is obviously NOT a place to post our opinions eh?
-
That being said, OP : I understand what you're trying to say, that Diablo3 HAVE to get some improvements, and that a few of these improvements are already there in WoW. So it's a logical choice to implement 'em in a similar way they did in WoW. Why should they do the same engineering work that they've already spent so many hours on, to get almost the same result?
I think it's better to take some of these good points, and adapt them to the Diablo universe.
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If you can't amaze people with your intelligence, confuse them with your bullshit.
Woah, stop... Just stop already... If I wanted to continue to care about your posts, I would've answer the one you posted just before. Like you said, this thread is not supposed to be about our opinions, you shouldn't post your opinions about how I fail to read...
A reply in a thread is supposed to contribute to the discussion, I don't want this thread to be locked because of us arguing on how to read... So simply let it go, or if you really dont want to, PM me, I'll answer.
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If you can't amaze people with your intelligence, confuse them with your bullshit.
I don't think they're turning Diablo 3 into WoW, but they ARE borrowing unnecessary things from WoW. Why the fuck list buffs as an icon in the bottom left corner? Why change the skill tree look? They could have kept the old look, but improved the graphics of it. Ad to that many many other things.
I'm having a LOT of trouble taking your posts seriously, since .. well.. they have horrible arguments. I have nothing against you, nor am I trolling or flaming you, your arguments are just extremely irrelevant and weak. You basically went "they would have done that even if it weren't for WoW" or "WoW borrowed this from D2, and now D3 is claiming it back!" or "so what if WoW has it, it's great!" which is atrocious. Sorry, but if I weren't already convinced, you wouldn't have been able to convince me at all; if anything, you just proved to me the exact opposite of what you actually wanted to prove. I'm not trying to be an ass, I'm just stating my opinion. I didn't even read any other posts other than yours (@OP).
If required, I will furthermore detail my argument with a point-to-point rebuttal post. Cheerios.
Well, I for one am looking forward to the game regardless of its relationship to any other game in history. If you think of the game industry as an equivalent to the music or art disciplines I think you will find that it is the artists and creators responsibility to evolve, reference, barrow from and re-imagine what has come before. If it's from WOW, Mario Bros or Pong if the alteration or addition to the game is beneficial to the game then it shouldn't matter where it was inspired from. If you don't like a choice that is another matter, but the constant back and forth about what it is and isn't as a whole is rather silly I think, in either direction.
Well, I for one am looking forward to the game regardless of its relationship to any other game in history. If you think of the game industry as an equivalent to the music or art disciplines I think you will find that it is the artists and creators responsibility to evolve, reference, barrow from and re-imagine what has come before. If it's from WOW, Mario Bros or Pong if the alteration or addition to the game is beneficial to the game then it shouldn't matter where it was inspired from. If you don't like a choice that is another matter, but the constant back and forth about what it is and isn't as a whole is rather silly I think, in either direction.
Then let's create a game that's an amalgam of 20 other games, and play it. Let's call it Diablo Kart: The Burning Mortal Kombat !
Seriously though, they shouldn't be borrowing shit. While I'd buy Diablo 3 in a heartbeat no matter what, a lot of things are annoying me right now, and destroying my expectations. There's still a long way to go, so it's not like I'm giving up or anything..but they're seriously undermining thousands of people, hiding behind Bashiok's annoying, condescending, stupid posts and acting like there's nothing wrong.
Then let's create a game that's an amalgam of 20 other games, and play it. Let's call it Diablo Kart: The Burning Mortal Kombat !
Seriously though, they shouldn't be borrowing shit. While I'd buy Diablo 3 in a heartbeat no matter what, a lot of things are annoying me right now, and destroying my expectations. There's still a long way to go, so it's not like I'm giving up or anything..but they're seriously undermining thousands of people, hiding behind Bashiok's annoying, condescending, stupid posts and acting like there's nothing wrong.
Every game you have ever played has barrowed and been inspired by what has come before, even the first video games were inspired most likely by board games such as dungeons and dragons. You realize I hope that Diablo I and II both barrowed heavily from mythology, popular culture and literary artworks (Such as Lord of the Rings) as well as previous games. Just because it was probably one of your first introductions to some of the concepts does not mean that the game existed in a vacuum impervious to outside influence. Everything ever created in a way is in a cause and effect pattern even games that try to be the exact opposite of what's come before are in fact just mirroring something that has already happened. At this point in time having such a rich history of culture and games to barrow from it would be absolutely foolhardy to think anything you make doesn't have a connection to something else. A good creator would look at what's come before and utilize that to the best degree to move the genre or craft forward no matter what the medium. Again like I said as a consumer you have a right to say that you don't like the colors, or you don't like a feature or choice for the game and NO ONE has to agree with you for you to have a valid opinion. It's just odd to me that you think everything in life is an original idea without precedent. While that is theoretically possible, I think it would be nearly impossible to realize considering the conditions. Many of the newer things that we see in games now are due to the fact that they weren't possible earlier on, but that doesn't mean that they weren't thought of in another medium. You need to remember that just because something has been done before, does not mean that you shouldn't try to make it better or can't. I think it's extremely disadvantageous to look at the situation and truly believe that the people working and Blizzard are anything, but hard working people trying to do their best. They may make a game you personally don't like, that's fine I'm sure they can live with that as you can never make everyone happy, but do you really think that they are sitting at the job thinking, "Hey I am going to purposefully set out to ruin someone's day!". Very little in life, if anything is perfect.
I think what people are getting wrong is the looks of the game and its gameplay. We ( people who are saying D3 looks like WoW ) are refering to the actual LOOK of the game, not its gameplay. D3 and WoW will play completly differently, at least i hope so, while having alot of resemblance to WoW, again in an artistic/esthetic way.
Then let's create a game that's an amalgam of 20 other games, and play it. Let's call it Diablo Kart: The Burning Mortal Kombat !
Seriously though, they shouldn't be borrowing shit. While I'd buy Diablo 3 in a heartbeat no matter what, a lot of things are annoying me right now, and destroying my expectations. There's still a long way to go, so it's not like I'm giving up or anything..but they're seriously undermining thousands of people, hiding behind Bashiok's annoying, condescending, stupid posts and acting like there's nothing wrong.
If status effect icons in the L-L corner are causing this much irritation in you I think you have problems, and I'm not exaggerating.
One very small game mechanic that may or may not even make the final game, borrowed not (just) from WoW but from about a thousand other games, and they're 'undermining thousands of people' and 'hiding behind Bashiok' ?
I really just don't get people with these WoW comparisons. They are 2 completely different kinds of games -- different genres, different aesthetics, different themes and atmosphere, etc. etc. and a handful of very small mechanics or similarities pop up and some of you guys are on the verge of popping arteries just because you didn't dig WoW.
Meph you've always seemed cool to me and I like you man but you gotta take a step back and breathe, here...you're better than this.
I'm really kinda done arguing this particular topic (I know I know, I'm doing it right now) but honestly I just can't wait until D3 launches and everyone plays it and it's a blockbuster success (if you think it's going to flop with Blizzard's track record you're an absolute fool) and we all sit around laughing at the color controversy, the 'it's going to be like WoW' fear mongering, the lament of the missing necro, and basically all the other things that seem to attract knee-jerk, 'Blizzard-is-ruining-D3' reactions.
I get it, I really do -- some people here really, really hate WoW and really, really love Diablo, but like the other ridiculously overblown 'controversies' there's not much substance to this one at all, and the 'outrage' should probably be saved for when Blizzard really does to something screwy with D3 (if they do), because at this point they know there will be a portion of the fanbase that shits a flaming brick of rage at every turn no matter what they do, and if they really do mess something up and people get angry they're more likely not to listen now, thanks to bull like this.
I think Diablo 3 are getting alot things from WoW but it's not nesserely bad. Actually it's a very natural process. You guys liking it or not (for then) WoW are they prodigal number 1 son and they are very satysfied with the game.
About unpleasing fan, it's also a natural process. When they created D2 they greatly unpleased some D1 fans (including me lol). When they created WC3 they also unpleased a sigficant amount of WC2 fans and SC fans who were in desperate need for another RTS.
Also, imo, the fan base are in no position to criticize the general lines of devopment. Really, put yourself in their place. If you give your game some direction (like been more RPG or been more action or been more like what D2 was) would you change your project because of the feedback of some old fans ?
For me it's not a matter of what is done. It's allways a matter of how it's done.
WoW is a pretty bad game and I don't think people want Diablo to go in that direction: namely, the limitations and simplifications of a conveyor MMORPG. I personally am for auto-stats, but many people are not, and many of us do not like the weapon limitations, as well, because that sounds too much like Blizzard saying it knows what's best for us, the exact attitude they have in WoW. Maybe it worked for WoW. I don't want to see it in DIII at the moment. That's the one similarity I'm worried about.
WC3 was a non-sequel sequel. It should have never carried the name WarCraft.
Kiserai said it as best as it could be said. There is no other way to put it. It's just plain stupidity that such a big part of the fan base keep on blowing their load at every little change that is happening. It really comes down to the fact that with the age of communication, we are getting info on things that used to be behind closed doors. (Such as game development) and with this knowledge came the wave of frustrated folks who think they can do it better than everyone else.
Remember (All you frustrated fear mongers) the only reason you even have anything to discuss about, is because these companies choose to let us in on part of the game creation. It's a privilege, not a right, so appreciate and be respectful.
If D3 was going in the wrong direction, they wouldn't be releasing it. Im betting everything I got that the most critics on D3 come from the people designing the game.
The only difference is they actually do it in a constructive manner, not to flame the folks who are making these decisions. D3 isn't even close to WoW, by a long stretch, even if it borrowed more than half of it's game mechanics.
Comments like Equinox's "
WoW is a pretty bad game
" Actually are very biased and not based on any concrete source but the writer's personal judgement.
I don't like WoW either, not even a little. But I do recognize that it's an amazing game that is more addictive than cocaine for millions of users around the world. I live in China and trust me, we have millions here alone playing it. The reason it's so addictive is mainly because of it's incredible game mechanics, therefor even if it did transcend from WoW to D3 I would be appreciative.
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Diablo 3, Hottest shit to happen to 21st Century Entertainment since Georges "Rush" St-Pierre.______________ --------~~Mattheo's Quote of the day~~---------
----------Brought to you by Diablofans.com Forums -------- Originally Posted by mattheo_majik
I LOVE being a SEX TON!!!
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- Many people have taken one look at the signifigantly little amount of Diablo 3 content Blizzard has released, and immediatly state that the color scheme is becoming less "gothic" and more like WoW. The first thing you have to realize is that when going from 2D to 3D, that same classic Diablo 1 and 2 style no longer works as well as many would like it. WoW has nothing to do with that. The second thing one must realise is that all we have seen are the early parts of the game. Also, 99% of Diablo 1 took place in inside environments. The first three acts of Diablo 2 were absolutely full of color, especially the new outside environments. Diablo 3 needs color even more than Diablo 2, and so far they have did a pretty good job of it. None of this has anything to do with WoW. Lastly for color, that old and ugly "green hue" everybody sees in the WWI Gameplay Video (that many have comlained about specifically) is dead and gone. As of Blizzcon 2008, the Cathedral looks as it does in this video: very dark with warm lighting, using the green hue in 2 appropriate places linked to King Leodric to make it look spooky. As one can see, Diablo 3 now seems to really be stepping up on the "dark and scary" factor in comparison to what we have seen in the past.
As you can see, I have spent a lot of time thinking upon this subject. I hope this post has brought light to many of the issues that still (somehow) exist within the community in regards to Diablo 3 becoming too much like WoW. All facts about the developers and their decisions (such as WoW origionally having stat-choice) have all been confirmed via Q&As, Video Interviews, and other random WWI/Blizzcon Videos. Please pass this information to anybody who still believes that Diablo 3 is becoming too much like WoW so we can all move to a new era of intelligent belief. Thank you for your time.-inventory layout
-bagging system
-pants/shoulders
-skill trees looking very similar to wow
-chat box or at least thats what people think it is
-barb using fury instead of mana
-quest icons
Im not saying these are bad things, but I think all the little wow like things get people worried. I could care less as long as it makes diablo 3 a better game.
Rofl, all pretty much nit picky examples I could see a hardcore Diablo 2 fan coming up with (not that I am labeling you one, don't take that statement as me pointing fingers).
The new inventory system is much more efficient than the classic tetris style. Capability of increasing the size (be it bags, which I haven't heard of yet, or other means) as you progress through the game is convenient as well. Probably would have saw this change without WoW.
Pants/shoulders are just a technology upgrade. Its kinda hard to tell the difference between different shoulders and pants when your character is that small and 2D. It has little to do with WoW as well.
The WoW skill trees revamped the Diablo 2 concept by adding passive bonuses. It only seems natural that Blizzard would bring this great new idea back into the Diablo universe. Probably could have gotten this anyway.
Chat box? People really bitch about them making a chat box? Thats just a convenience upgrade, so you can scroll back through previous messages, even if it is from WoW.
That quest icon, which was used in Warcraft 3 and WoW, were both pretty much jacked from Diablo 2 as well. They changed the way it looked in War3 and WoW tho.
The only real thing in that list hard to justify is the Barbarian using Fury. That system is still a little iffy, but it is a little different that WoWs. That system has been used in quite a few other RPGs, I'm afraid. Not quite a WoW unique. I am actually curious to see what they can do with that system.
I too just want to see Diablo 3 become a better game, and if that means taking things from a somewhat similar game that they made, so be it. Its not like we are going to have raids and shit.
As well written and descriptive as it is, unfortunately people will always find ways to complain. Some people just have a natural urge to make a fuss about something, to rant and to release anger, for whatever reasons they have. You will never be able to list ALL the things in common with WoW, because people can draw the most abstract connections, trust me, some of them are ridiculous.
The reason this "similarity to WoW" issue is so bad is that, although there were a number of intelligent people arguing intellectually, they were reinforced by people who simply hated WoW and drew hate connections everywhere. I don't mind the people who create strong arguments that may actually significantly affect game-play, its those people who make pointless arguments, arguing for things that don't even matter much.
I KNOW you just stated those, I know you agree to as long as Blizzard makes a good game. But other than a Barb using fury, all those are perfect examples of things that don't make or break a game. Most of them are just appearance...its almost as bad as, "I hate you, just because I think you are ugly".
Man, if only people would be this picky for crappy games...like Loki. I fear for their health...
As intelligent as it might be to quote every point of discussion, you really only had one point to share, that is, that WoW had it and now Diablo does (or something similar), thus Diablo is turning into WoW. Next time, just state that one point.
The way I see this argument is that Morden chose to to look at the things that ARE common with WoW. If he had instead argued the things were different, you're argument wouldn't be as sound. Because of his approach in arguing his point, you have a major advantage, because all his points are obviously stating that WoW did have it and now Diablo does. Just repeating it with a negative connotation DOES NOT bring in any new information. Instead it would be great if you were to share WHY you think these similarities are bad.
You are just being plain negative here. Your arguments aren't constructive in developing the discussion. All it does, is make him feel bad, and that sucks for everyone.
Now before you counter my statement, saying, this select reply isn't being constructive either. My ORIGINAL topic is the one previously posted. I seriously don't mind if you dislike the idea of Diablo turning to WoW, opinions are great. We all love to discuss in a peaceful manner.
Pointing 10times the same thing, without giving any opinion or constructive comment isn't a way to argue, it's only telling him: 'Look, I don't like your arguments, come with more pls, kthx'
Pointing 10times the same thing, without giving any opinion or constructive comment isn't a way to argue, it's only telling him: 'Look, I don't like your arguments, come with more pls, kthx'
Pointing 10times the same thing, without giving any opinion or constructive comment isn't a way to argue, it's only telling him: 'Look, I don't like your arguments, come with more pls, kthx'
Pointing 10times the same thing, without giving any opinion or constructive comment isn't a way to argue, it's only telling him: 'Look, I don't like your arguments, come with more pls, kthx'
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Personally, I don't mind if there are some similarities with WoW, as long as it makes the game a better experience.
If you want to see what a cheap copy of WoW looks like, go try Runes of Magic.
Try to come up with some points yourself, instead of saying: "You failed to rebunk anything" at each points he wrote. He's explaining why it isn't that bad that some points are similar to WoW, he's not trying to argue how these poionts are inexistant...
One of his points is that there's an evolution in the game designing, and that even if WoW wasn't there, most improvements that was first in WoW would still have been in Diablo3. He KNOWS that some features of Diablo3 will be similar, but he's explaining how 'similar' doesnt mean 'the game is turning into WoW' and then you only come saying: 'It is like WoW, you fail.' when in fact, you simply refuse to hear what he's trying to explain. If you disagree with it, explain it in another way than writing that he fails to show Diablo3 isn't turning into WoW.
I can't understand, he's the one who started the thread, and you are telling him things like:
What if he wants to discuss about it? What if thats the point of his thread?
And yes, my answer"ing to your post was some kind of trolling, but I also gave my opinion after. If you can't understand that your reply was simply rude and not contributing to the discussion in any point, you simply shouldn't take part in it.
I'm sorry I made you think I'm a troll, but I'm only using a similar posting approach than in your first post. Using your deduction methods, does that mean you're also a troll, since my way to post is similar to yours?
@Ivaron : I think you're making some important points here, that's probably one big reason why. I also played WoW, and of course some parts should'nt be brought in Diablo3, but I'm trusting Blizzard, they heard often enough that players dont want Diablo3 to be another WoW. I'm sure they'll make a very interresting new Diablo universe, with some important improvements NEW to Diablo3, and some coming from WoW too.
^ dud ontop of this guy up there i mean, man lurked u always get in the way
First off whats up with the whole "ur a troll" thing i dont get it
Now for what i have to say is simple. I think what Morden was trying to say is that despite WoW they would likely be making these same changes to D3. Personally i think that as long as the gameplay stays in sync with D2 there is no way it can be turning into WoW. Why? first there two completely different genres they just cant become similar to each other. Second, being someone who has only played WoW for like 2-3 months 2 years ago i think i have a less biased point of view and the changes their making seem cool and not in any way negative. and last WoW is a more hack- and think about it or u'll die and Diablo is more a hack- and blast away everyone's mother who gets in ur way. What i think of the art style is basically that its the same is D2 with better graphics and more detailed colors.
P.S. anyone ready to criticize my comment, go ahead, ill just go cry in my bedroom.:(jk
I will simply remember that a forum is obviously NOT a place to post our opinions eh?
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That being said, OP : I understand what you're trying to say, that Diablo3 HAVE to get some improvements, and that a few of these improvements are already there in WoW. So it's a logical choice to implement 'em in a similar way they did in WoW. Why should they do the same engineering work that they've already spent so many hours on, to get almost the same result?
I think it's better to take some of these good points, and adapt them to the Diablo universe.
A reply in a thread is supposed to contribute to the discussion, I don't want this thread to be locked because of us arguing on how to read... So simply let it go, or if you really dont want to, PM me, I'll answer.
I'm having a LOT of trouble taking your posts seriously, since .. well.. they have horrible arguments. I have nothing against you, nor am I trolling or flaming you, your arguments are just extremely irrelevant and weak. You basically went "they would have done that even if it weren't for WoW" or "WoW borrowed this from D2, and now D3 is claiming it back!" or "so what if WoW has it, it's great!" which is atrocious. Sorry, but if I weren't already convinced, you wouldn't have been able to convince me at all; if anything, you just proved to me the exact opposite of what you actually wanted to prove. I'm not trying to be an ass, I'm just stating my opinion. I didn't even read any other posts other than yours (@OP).
If required, I will furthermore detail my argument with a point-to-point rebuttal post. Cheerios.
Rise and rise again, until lambs become lions
>{Dynasty DiabloFans Thread}<
Artist Portfolio: http://www.JonathanSabella.com
Then let's create a game that's an amalgam of 20 other games, and play it. Let's call it Diablo Kart: The Burning Mortal Kombat !
Seriously though, they shouldn't be borrowing shit. While I'd buy Diablo 3 in a heartbeat no matter what, a lot of things are annoying me right now, and destroying my expectations. There's still a long way to go, so it's not like I'm giving up or anything..but they're seriously undermining thousands of people, hiding behind Bashiok's annoying, condescending, stupid posts and acting like there's nothing wrong.
Rise and rise again, until lambs become lions
Every game you have ever played has barrowed and been inspired by what has come before, even the first video games were inspired most likely by board games such as dungeons and dragons. You realize I hope that Diablo I and II both barrowed heavily from mythology, popular culture and literary artworks (Such as Lord of the Rings) as well as previous games. Just because it was probably one of your first introductions to some of the concepts does not mean that the game existed in a vacuum impervious to outside influence. Everything ever created in a way is in a cause and effect pattern even games that try to be the exact opposite of what's come before are in fact just mirroring something that has already happened. At this point in time having such a rich history of culture and games to barrow from it would be absolutely foolhardy to think anything you make doesn't have a connection to something else. A good creator would look at what's come before and utilize that to the best degree to move the genre or craft forward no matter what the medium. Again like I said as a consumer you have a right to say that you don't like the colors, or you don't like a feature or choice for the game and NO ONE has to agree with you for you to have a valid opinion. It's just odd to me that you think everything in life is an original idea without precedent. While that is theoretically possible, I think it would be nearly impossible to realize considering the conditions. Many of the newer things that we see in games now are due to the fact that they weren't possible earlier on, but that doesn't mean that they weren't thought of in another medium. You need to remember that just because something has been done before, does not mean that you shouldn't try to make it better or can't. I think it's extremely disadvantageous to look at the situation and truly believe that the people working and Blizzard are anything, but hard working people trying to do their best. They may make a game you personally don't like, that's fine I'm sure they can live with that as you can never make everyone happy, but do you really think that they are sitting at the job thinking, "Hey I am going to purposefully set out to ruin someone's day!". Very little in life, if anything is perfect.
>{Dynasty DiabloFans Thread}<
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If status effect icons in the L-L corner are causing this much irritation in you I think you have problems, and I'm not exaggerating.
One very small game mechanic that may or may not even make the final game, borrowed not (just) from WoW but from about a thousand other games, and they're 'undermining thousands of people' and 'hiding behind Bashiok' ?
I really just don't get people with these WoW comparisons. They are 2 completely different kinds of games -- different genres, different aesthetics, different themes and atmosphere, etc. etc. and a handful of very small mechanics or similarities pop up and some of you guys are on the verge of popping arteries just because you didn't dig WoW.
Meph you've always seemed cool to me and I like you man but you gotta take a step back and breathe, here...you're better than this.
I'm really kinda done arguing this particular topic (I know I know, I'm doing it right now) but honestly I just can't wait until D3 launches and everyone plays it and it's a blockbuster success (if you think it's going to flop with Blizzard's track record you're an absolute fool) and we all sit around laughing at the color controversy, the 'it's going to be like WoW' fear mongering, the lament of the missing necro, and basically all the other things that seem to attract knee-jerk, 'Blizzard-is-ruining-D3' reactions.
I get it, I really do -- some people here really, really hate WoW and really, really love Diablo, but like the other ridiculously overblown 'controversies' there's not much substance to this one at all, and the 'outrage' should probably be saved for when Blizzard really does to something screwy with D3 (if they do), because at this point they know there will be a portion of the fanbase that shits a flaming brick of rage at every turn no matter what they do, and if they really do mess something up and people get angry they're more likely not to listen now, thanks to bull like this.
About unpleasing fan, it's also a natural process. When they created D2 they greatly unpleased some D1 fans (including me lol). When they created WC3 they also unpleased a sigficant amount of WC2 fans and SC fans who were in desperate need for another RTS.
Also, imo, the fan base are in no position to criticize the general lines of devopment. Really, put yourself in their place. If you give your game some direction (like been more RPG or been more action or been more like what D2 was) would you change your project because of the feedback of some old fans ?
For me it's not a matter of what is done. It's allways a matter of how it's done.
WC3 was a non-sequel sequel. It should have never carried the name WarCraft.
Remember (All you frustrated fear mongers) the only reason you even have anything to discuss about, is because these companies choose to let us in on part of the game creation. It's a privilege, not a right, so appreciate and be respectful.
If D3 was going in the wrong direction, they wouldn't be releasing it. Im betting everything I got that the most critics on D3 come from the people designing the game.
The only difference is they actually do it in a constructive manner, not to flame the folks who are making these decisions. D3 isn't even close to WoW, by a long stretch, even if it borrowed more than half of it's game mechanics.
Comments like Equinox's "" Actually are very biased and not based on any concrete source but the writer's personal judgement.
I don't like WoW either, not even a little. But I do recognize that it's an amazing game that is more addictive than cocaine for millions of users around the world. I live in China and trust me, we have millions here alone playing it. The reason it's so addictive is mainly because of it's incredible game mechanics, therefor even if it did transcend from WoW to D3 I would be appreciative.
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Originally Posted by mattheo_majik
I LOVE being a SEX TON!!!