No one is saying you have to MF :)! You can do mindless hack and slash all you want to unwind but to remove Magic Find will not solve your "game grinding" issue. The fact is Diablo is an item driven game, which means people want the best items to make their character different and better than other players characters. Blizzard also wants to make a game that lasts so their needs to be a low chance of getting the good items. They have already said good runes will be super rare so people hoping to get their hands on some will need to spend time "grinding" mobs or bosses for a chance to have one.
As you see grinding is just a fact of low item drops, low exp to level ratio, etc...
Anyways, MF is a good thing because the grind isn't going anywhere. Plus my sister loved MFing while I did the pvp/trading thing. Different strokes for different folks but let their be something for everyone.
No one is saying you have to MF :)! You can do mindless hack and slash all you want to unwind but to remove Magic Find will not solve your "game grinding" issue. The fact is Diablo is an item driven game, which means people want the best items to make their character different and better than other players characters. Blizzard also wants to make a game that lasts so their needs to be a low chance of getting the good items. They have already said good runes will be super rare so people hoping to get their hands on some will need to spend time "grinding" mobs or bosses for a chance to have one.
As you see grinding is just a fact of low item drops, low exp to level ratio, etc...
Anyways, MF is a good thing because the grind isn't going anywhere. Plus my sister loved MFing while I did the pvp/trading thing. Different strokes for different folks but let their be something for everyone.
I kind of agree with you. Theres not a clear link between MF and grind. MF can exist without grinding and grindin can exist without MF. So I will try to put my points the clearer i can.
My problem with MF is:
- Decrease PvM customisation: With MF everyone will just make a MF Gear, so everyclass will basically use the same gear for pve and even every class will use the same gear because mf os mod that are good for all classes. Instead they should make items that cleary better for killing monsters, but worked different for every class and every build (this happens in every game except D2 and thats why D2 itemisation are pathetically lame).
-Not intuitive gameplay: When people start to play they will have to, before they look for gear that increase his character power, look for a MF gear. It's like a barrier, a very unecessary one.
In other words, try to imagine D2 without Mf but if a greater drop rate. Whats the difference? People would start the item hunting sooner (don't need that step of hunting mf gar) and would play pve with the gear that increase his class combat, not a gear that increase his power of get more gear that increase his combat power.
My problens with grind is alot more serious. Fortunaly many interviews and the simple evolution of the games showed that grinding is something unwished and will problably be replaced with something else (maybe quests).
I think ideally Blizzard should not tie MF to gear. It should be a statistic you can increase with skills, consumeables, shrines, etc. Maybe they could have it like that you could increase your MF by finding "magic find books" and reading them. Each book ups your magic find by a percentage, and there's a top percentage where you can never get any higher magic find. The books themselves would be valuable trading items, perhaps even alike SoJ's.
I like this idea. Then I won't have to wear this crappy mf gear and risk dying just for a chance at some decent drops.
I MF because it's effective, not because it's fun.
"I just level up my characters and if I happen to have some magic find in my main gear then thats the MF I have. And yeah I do find good gear when leveling I don't have to create another character to do some stupid runs to boss x and y."
why does everyone have to play like you?
you do your stuff and ill do mine, why get rid of something just because some people never took advantage of it
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DIABLO = DEVIL its not supposed to be a nice game autostats are rediclous lack of pots is not welcome if it aint broke dont fix it! (diablo2)
The problem is that ppl will allways tend to do what is more effective not what is more "fun". Then it's blizz job to make the most effective also the most fun. Then hwta is "most fun" ?
In the actual game direction fun = character customisation, quests, lore in game, non-grinding, content to level until the cap, etc... And MF contradicts the character customisation part, thats why i think MF will be gone.
If Blizz takes out MF, players will still be grinding bosses for their loot either way. Many love to perfect their characters even if it involves doing it in a boring manner. You can't take it away, but only encourage those that do, to increase their productivity through MF.
True Mfing does in some aspects suck the life out of diablo 2, but in another perspective it also brings a new time consuming aspect to the game.
In diablo 2 thers pvp'ers, pve'ers, Mf'ers, and other, i say play how you want to play.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Even if one takes every reefer madness allegation of the prohibitionists at face value, marijuana prohibition has done far more harm to far more people than marijuana ever could
Actually, after reading some responses in here, I've changed my views on MF.
If MF is to be removed, then there wont be any reason to wear pathetically weak armours and weapons. Hence, it is still possible to grind bosses with the ultimate goal of hopefully MFing, but at the same time, you would have proper gear and can take on the tougher creatures, and leveling more effectively in the end as well.
Also, since MF gear was always so weak that only the long-range characters, and preferably spell casters were used for MFing. i.e. the sorceress (not counting the MF chars with merc as primary killer). Without MF gear we wouldn't have this problem of a spammed server with sorc mfers.
I kind of agree with you. Theres not a clear link between MF and grind. MF can exist without grinding and grindin can exist without MF. So I will try to put my points the clearer i can.
My problem with MF is:
- Decrease PvM customisation: With MF everyone will just make a MF Gear, so everyclass will basically use the same gear for pve and even every class will use the same gear because mf os mod that are good for all classes. Instead they should make items that cleary better for killing monsters, but worked different for every class and every build (this happens in every game except D2 and thats why D2 itemisation are pathetically lame).
-Not intuitive gameplay: When people start to play they will have to, before they look for gear that increase his character power, look for a MF gear. It's like a barrier, a very unecessary one.
In other words, try to imagine D2 without Mf but if a greater drop rate. Whats the difference? People would start the item hunting sooner (don't need that step of hunting mf gar) and would play pve with the gear that increase his class combat, not a gear that increase his power of get more gear that increase his combat power.
My problens with grind is alot more serious. Fortunaly many interviews and the simple evolution of the games showed that grinding is something unwished and will problably be replaced with something else (maybe quests).
I can see your thought process and I can almost buy into it except what you suggest will take away from Diablo 3 rather than add to it. The solution is itemization. Gear can be made to fit a persons play style with more damage/less mf or Higher MF/less damage etc. I do not believe the difference between 300 MF and 500 MF makes that much of a difference (yes I know you can get much more).
I for one am a fan of dedicated characters. I love MFing on my sorc, gold farming on my GF barb, and pvping on my PvP charater. This just seems more ideal to me rather than one character can MF/PVP/GF etc. If I am going to be playing D3 it will be for a good while and achieving all of this will be a fun ride. Thats how I feel.
I never made an mf character because as I was looking at mf builds, I realized that it is a lifestyle. If I could just mf crowds of monsters and a few bosses each run, then I might try it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Just as the Scorpion hunts...
Silently Lurking...
"Nothing is True. Everything is Permitted." ~ Ezio Auditore de Firenze
do any of you realize this YOU DONT HAVE TO USE MF, if you want you can run bosses over and over without any mf.
magic find just adds another element to the game that unsophisticated players like all of you cant handle. the key is balance
you have to be able to find the balance where you can kill things efficently, and have a decent amout of mf. that is if you want to hunt for items.
i use the term hunt for items because for unnoobish people its not just running the same boss over and over as i explained before.
you cannot have too much mf, because 1 you find all set items and 2 you cant kill shit.
you cant have too little mf, because you will kill baal and probly only find a decent items 1 out of 29 times
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DIABLO = DEVIL its not supposed to be a nice game autostats are rediclous lack of pots is not welcome if it aint broke dont fix it! (diablo2)
do any of you realize this YOU DONT HAVE TO USE MF, if you want you can run bosses over and over without any mf.
Sure, you don't HAVE to use it, but then you're behind everyone else who does. It's a completely unbalanced mechanic, and it has a ripple effect.
I think we can all agree though that the looting system in D2 was flawed. Lots of worthless junk and super-low chances to find anything worthwhile. Some think that's perfect, but for a game with a lot of emphasis on looting, it sure doesn't allow much in the way of worthwhile playtime. With that said, throwing in a broken mechanic to fix that imperfection is just way more trouble. I hope they find a better balance in D3. Notice when I say balance, I'm talking about the base looting system. Not a mod that haphazardly patches it up.
Quote from "HARDCOREPOORE" »
magic find just adds another element to the game that unsophisticated players like all of you cant handle. the key is balance
Unsophisticated? Be sophisticated and go get a job with all the time spent working on Magic Find builds and looting. I mean - would you honestly rather find an elite unique or pick up a phat paycheck? Wait, don't answer that.
do any of you realize this YOU DONT HAVE TO USE MF, if you want you can run bosses over and over without any mf.
magic find just adds another element to the game that unsophisticated players like all of you cant handle. the key is balance
you have to be able to find the balance where you can kill things efficently, and have a decent amout of mf. that is if you want to hunt for items.
i use the term hunt for items because for unnoobish people its not just running the same boss over and over as i explained before.
you cannot have too much mf, because 1 you find all set items and 2 you cant kill shit.
you cant have too little mf, because you will kill baal and probly only find a decent items 1 out of 29 times
You kind of have really good arguments o_o'
Maybe the problem is not MF but it's balance... (I don't consider it very balanced in D2 because really, it is freaking overpower. And the reason i think ppl don't get full Mf is the dimish return in the bonus).
But the problem is not the Mf mod but the grind it envolves. Maybe keep a more balanced MF
and change the game structure to a non-grinding can be fun.
Off:
I wonder why you think that run different boss is better then run the same one. Mathetically it's unlogical, so theres a hiden modifier that changes the problem ?
think we can all agree though that the looting system in D2 was flawed.
FALSE
Unsophisticated? Be sophisticated and go get a job with all the time spent working on Magic Find builds and looting. I mean - would you honestly rather find an elite unique or pick up a phat paycheck? Wait, don't answer that.
I do have a job, im actully at entry level position at a well respected company. besides this attepmt at my livelyhood do you have anything else?
wonder why you think that run different boss is better then run the same one. Mathetically it's unlogical, so theres a hiden modifier that changes the problem
if you clear out a game, the chances of hell baal dropping a useful unique is prob 100x more likely. if andy, duriel, diablo, meph, and all superuniques drop their own item that you dont want. the chances of that item falling again are alot smaller, increasing the chance of better more high lvl items to fall.
listen turmoboil, it seems to me you never had a successful time in diablo. i mean people who were good at the game most likely didnt mf anyway. without getting into my style of play once again, all i really mfed was when i was sitting in my trade games waiting for somone to join, or while doing key runs.
to clear the air about this, any successful diablo player puts in at least 20 hrs a week. so the grind is normal, and if you really are going to complain about that consider yourself a casual gamer. then i will ask you why are you on this site, because your def not a hardcore gamer.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DIABLO = DEVIL its not supposed to be a nice game autostats are rediclous lack of pots is not welcome if it aint broke dont fix it! (diablo2)
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
As you see grinding is just a fact of low item drops, low exp to level ratio, etc...
Anyways, MF is a good thing because the grind isn't going anywhere. Plus my sister loved MFing while I did the pvp/trading thing. Different strokes for different folks but let their be something for everyone.
I kind of agree with you. Theres not a clear link between MF and grind. MF can exist without grinding and grindin can exist without MF. So I will try to put my points the clearer i can.
My problem with MF is:
- Decrease PvM customisation: With MF everyone will just make a MF Gear, so everyclass will basically use the same gear for pve and even every class will use the same gear because mf os mod that are good for all classes. Instead they should make items that cleary better for killing monsters, but worked different for every class and every build (this happens in every game except D2 and thats why D2 itemisation are pathetically lame).
-Not intuitive gameplay: When people start to play they will have to, before they look for gear that increase his character power, look for a MF gear. It's like a barrier, a very unecessary one.
In other words, try to imagine D2 without Mf but if a greater drop rate. Whats the difference? People would start the item hunting sooner (don't need that step of hunting mf gar) and would play pve with the gear that increase his class combat, not a gear that increase his power of get more gear that increase his combat power.
My problens with grind is alot more serious. Fortunaly many interviews and the simple evolution of the games showed that grinding is something unwished and will problably be replaced with something else (maybe quests).
I like this idea. Then I won't have to wear this crappy mf gear and risk dying just for a chance at some decent drops.
I MF because it's effective, not because it's fun.
why does everyone have to play like you?
you do your stuff and ill do mine, why get rid of something just because some people never took advantage of it
its not supposed to be a nice game
autostats are rediclous
lack of pots is not welcome
if it aint broke dont fix it! (diablo2)
Here's to hoping His Noodly Appendage touches you and may His Sauce rain down upon you,
-GM
RAmen
Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster website: www.venganza.org
In the actual game direction fun = character customisation, quests, lore in game, non-grinding, content to level until the cap, etc... And MF contradicts the character customisation part, thats why i think MF will be gone.
theyd just have to make it easier to find rares and uniques by a small margin =3
which would be such a great improvement over mf
changing luck on an equipment piece is just dumb
as said above they could have many more effects that would actually improve your char that would be more fun than changing luck
Be my Buddy =^.^=
The world may never know...
In diablo 2 thers pvp'ers, pve'ers, Mf'ers, and other, i say play how you want to play.
If MF is to be removed, then there wont be any reason to wear pathetically weak armours and weapons. Hence, it is still possible to grind bosses with the ultimate goal of hopefully MFing, but at the same time, you would have proper gear and can take on the tougher creatures, and leveling more effectively in the end as well.
Also, since MF gear was always so weak that only the long-range characters, and preferably spell casters were used for MFing. i.e. the sorceress (not counting the MF chars with merc as primary killer). Without MF gear we wouldn't have this problem of a spammed server with sorc mfers.
I can see your thought process and I can almost buy into it except what you suggest will take away from Diablo 3 rather than add to it. The solution is itemization. Gear can be made to fit a persons play style with more damage/less mf or Higher MF/less damage etc. I do not believe the difference between 300 MF and 500 MF makes that much of a difference (yes I know you can get much more).
I for one am a fan of dedicated characters. I love MFing on my sorc, gold farming on my GF barb, and pvping on my PvP charater. This just seems more ideal to me rather than one character can MF/PVP/GF etc. If I am going to be playing D3 it will be for a good while and achieving all of this will be a fun ride. Thats how I feel.
Whats wrong with having a hot chick grind you?
I never made an mf character because as I was looking at mf builds, I realized that it is a lifestyle. If I could just mf crowds of monsters and a few bosses each run, then I might try it.
magic find just adds another element to the game that unsophisticated players like all of you cant handle. the key is balance
you have to be able to find the balance where you can kill things efficently, and have a decent amout of mf. that is if you want to hunt for items.
i use the term hunt for items because for unnoobish people its not just running the same boss over and over as i explained before.
you cannot have too much mf, because 1 you find all set items and 2 you cant kill shit.
you cant have too little mf, because you will kill baal and probly only find a decent items 1 out of 29 times
its not supposed to be a nice game
autostats are rediclous
lack of pots is not welcome
if it aint broke dont fix it! (diablo2)
Sure, you don't HAVE to use it, but then you're behind everyone else who does. It's a completely unbalanced mechanic, and it has a ripple effect.
I think we can all agree though that the looting system in D2 was flawed. Lots of worthless junk and super-low chances to find anything worthwhile. Some think that's perfect, but for a game with a lot of emphasis on looting, it sure doesn't allow much in the way of worthwhile playtime. With that said, throwing in a broken mechanic to fix that imperfection is just way more trouble. I hope they find a better balance in D3. Notice when I say balance, I'm talking about the base looting system. Not a mod that haphazardly patches it up.
Unsophisticated? Be sophisticated and go get a job with all the time spent working on Magic Find builds and looting. I mean - would you honestly rather find an elite unique or pick up a phat paycheck? Wait, don't answer that.
You kind of have really good arguments o_o'
Maybe the problem is not MF but it's balance... (I don't consider it very balanced in D2 because really, it is freaking overpower. And the reason i think ppl don't get full Mf is the dimish return in the bonus).
But the problem is not the Mf mod but the grind it envolves. Maybe keep a more balanced MF
and change the game structure to a non-grinding can be fun.
Off:
I wonder why you think that run different boss is better then run the same one. Mathetically it's unlogical, so theres a hiden modifier that changes the problem ?
FALSE
Unsophisticated? Be sophisticated and go get a job with all the time spent working on Magic Find builds and looting. I mean - would you honestly rather find an elite unique or pick up a phat paycheck? Wait, don't answer that.
I do have a job, im actully at entry level position at a well respected company. besides this attepmt at my livelyhood do you have anything else?
wonder why you think that run different boss is better then run the same one. Mathetically it's unlogical, so theres a hiden modifier that changes the problem
if you clear out a game, the chances of hell baal dropping a useful unique is prob 100x more likely. if andy, duriel, diablo, meph, and all superuniques drop their own item that you dont want. the chances of that item falling again are alot smaller, increasing the chance of better more high lvl items to fall.
listen turmoboil, it seems to me you never had a successful time in diablo. i mean people who were good at the game most likely didnt mf anyway. without getting into my style of play once again, all i really mfed was when i was sitting in my trade games waiting for somone to join, or while doing key runs.
to clear the air about this, any successful diablo player puts in at least 20 hrs a week. so the grind is normal, and if you really are going to complain about that consider yourself a casual gamer. then i will ask you why are you on this site, because your def not a hardcore gamer.
its not supposed to be a nice game
autostats are rediclous
lack of pots is not welcome
if it aint broke dont fix it! (diablo2)