No one's talking about being equal. But there's a threshold. If you absolutely require special gear in order to get other special gear, then that is completely unnecessary. All of a sudden the bulk of Blizzard's player-base is off the radar, because they only play Diablo (in addition to other games they own) for less than an hour a day (Google gaming statistics, and by the way, over 2 hours a day is considered addiction in many studies). Sooner or later the average player either has to play more and get involved in the magic find cycle or they can't compete. You don't want equality and your hard work to amount to nothing, but you want balance. And a repetitive cycle that forces others to have certain builds is not balance. Like a previous poster said, Blizzard can find more creative and 'healthier' ways to make the game challenging in this sense.
I *think* you just contradicted yourself. If you don't need anything special to find stuff, then you're the same as everyone else and everyone is equal. And if everyone is equal in that respect, the only builds people are going to care about online are PvP builds since there would be no need for others.
Unless you're just not saying something or I'm missing your message here.
Edit-
Also, again, I'm not saying Magic Find is the end-all be-all for finding items, but there needs to be distinction here, and so far, no one has suggested one that's fair to all parties involved.
You've got X% to find magic items. You play Y amount of time and/or you fight Z number of monsters. Those variables affect your chances. On top of that you have different drop rates for different monsters and encounters. That in no way entails homogenous gameplay. How is that everyone getting the same? I'm not talking about curtailing gamers' efforts and giving a handicap to others. That's like... socialism in the game world. I'm talking about putting the focus back on the gameplay. Sure, loot's great, but it's not the game. Magic Find steals away from that gameplay.
Having hours and hours devoted to a modifier to X% was and still is a terrible idea for game play, and was pointless in and of itself when you couldn't use any of what you found. In short and infrequent instances, in the form of a buff or special encounter (akin to an EXP shrine), great incentive. But as a way of gaming, terrible cycle that negatively affects the gameplay for most players.
How boring do you guys think the game would be with an EXP mod on armor? Oh wait, I shouldn't ask.
Sorry but I like depth and challenge in my game play, and don't care for crappy elements that make me have to play in excess and in a boring repetitious state just to keep up. If I wanted to farm or do something tedious, I would plant a big veggie garden out back. (hmmm not a bad idea.)
I kind of agree with Kapang, but it's kind of hard to predict what blizzard wants D3 to be.
They want to make a glorious movie-like singleplayer game (like MGS)?
They want to make a addictive arcade game ?
They want to make a e-sport competitive game ?
They want to make a cooperative game ?
They want to make a "clan fight" based game (like pvp mmrpgs) ?
I really don't know, the only thing I know is that they will not make a grind based game like D2 because this is 100% against new blizzard's gaming standarts. Every single new feature in wow and every single word of the dev's about D3 is against farming, grinding and repetitive gameplay.
My guess is D3 will be heavy focused on the cooperative and with good and fun PvP (but not a competitive one. Competitive = e-sport and in e-sports everyone have to have the same basic chances noo matter the dedication one put in the game. Only skill may make any difference. Yeah, 'im talking about equality and "game socialism", thats why wow's pvp gear are so damn easy to get and why dota, a wc3 map, is more competitive then D2 ever dreamed to be).
Will D3 have the MF mod? Problably.
Will people keep farming stuff like crazy mfers ? Surely not.
It's just plain retarted that you need a gear to find gear or even worse you create a whole other character to do the MF job. Why can't you just find gear with your main character who is wearing your top gear setup(PVM wise) and not nerf your char down with MF gear. Also repeatable runs shouldn't be rewarding in D3.
Playing hours would still determine the amount of good items you find so not everyone would be equal.
How can someone be lazy when we're talking about a game that must be allways about have fun ?
If the asks you to not be lazy to play it, it surely a terrible game.
People that invest time to get better items should show more profit than the person that does not. If they are smart they can even maximize their time with MF. Magic Find helped you invest less time for better items and you are against it? Levels of productivity can also be measured in a game. Time + effort should equal reward.
Also, if you believe all times are fun filled ( even in a game ) then you should reevaluate reality.
People that invest time to get better items should show more profit than the person that does not. If they are smart they can even maximize their time with MF. Magic Find helped you invest less time for better items and you are against it? Levels of productivity can also be measured in a game. Time + effort should equal reward.
Also, if you believe all times are fun filled ( even in a game ) then you should reevaluate reality.
I lol'ed. If all times are not fun filled in a GAME then the game failed to deliver. Game were created for the sole purpose of entertainment. And thats still their ultimate goal. Its not saying that every elements in a game is always fun, but putting things in on purpose that are not supposed to be fun is probably the most stupid thing developers could do considering what games are for.
Did you even play pre 1.10? Finding items like storm and eaglehorn were very rewarding to the gamer as they were worth something in the economy. This made MF profitable and "fun".The problem really rests in Blizzards ability to make the game fair for everyone by removing cheats/bots. So try again one more time for me kthx.
Does this mean to say you never MF'ed in D2?
Working in real life isn't always fun, but the reward of cash keeps us coming back Same goes for MF.
Well I really didn't.. it sucks ass.
I just level up my characters and if I happen to have some magic find in my main gear then thats the MF I have. And yeah I do find good gear when leveling I don't have to create another character to do some stupid runs to boss x and y.
I don't have to create another character to do some stupid runs to boss x and y.
Sure thats all fine, but once you hit hell Baal you find that to level is just running those over and over again. So basically there are levelling runs, and just to shake off the repetitive boredom of that, many of us would go do MF runs.
Now I know that is very repetitive too, but really because it is for another cause (items rather than levels), it puts us in another mind-set and gives us a bit of a breather.
For the weaker characters that still have dungeons to explore, acts to progress through etc. it would be ridiculous to consider MF running. The usual - use the good items that you happen to accidentally find along the way - routine is perfectly accepetable.
When playing classic I don't have to do baal runs(you don't really need to do those in LOD either except maybe after 95lvl).. I'm mainly just clearing whole act4 except cs(ww barb don't like that place).
In classic after 90 you maybe want to go CS only if river don't have Urdars. But I haven't yet leveled over 90 in classic hc.. when my main is around 88-90 I generally try some other classes cause my mules are filled with items for other classes
I just don't understand some people doesn't really do anything in the game but MF.. They have MF char and they collect items which they don't really use for anything but maybe trading. I guess thats mostly in LOD since in classic people do much more just leveling and they find items in the meantime.
People that invest time to get better items should show more profit than the person that does not. If they are smart they can even maximize their time with MF. Magic Find helped you invest less time for better items and you are against it? Levels of productivity can also be measured in a game. Time + effort should equal reward.
Also, if you believe all times are fun filled ( even in a game ) then you should reevaluate reality.
Levels of productivity ? Time + effort ? Games ?
When 'im gaming i'm not a worker, i'm a boss.
And i never ever said all times are fun filled. And why did you "even" in a game ??? Games shoudl be one of the only things in world fun filled lol.
I gotta a pretty heavy job, i toke my studies very seriously.. Those are the non fun filled parts of my life, but rewarding ones.
When i wanna play something I want to distress a little. So I work 6hrs/day, study other 6 hours/day, if my couple hours I have to gaming i got work again in some grind based game, damnit i'll just quit playing.
For those reasons i love the e-sports. If you want to be a elite professional you surely can pratice 8 hours/day but if just wanna "play" a little you can just call your friends and have fun, like playing soccer or football.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"In time the hissing of her sanity
Faded out her voice and soiled her name
And like marked pages in a diary
Everything seemed clean that is unstained
The incoherent talk of ordinary days
Why would we really need to live?
Decide what is clear and what's within a haze
What you should take and what to give" - Opeth
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Unless you're just not saying something or I'm missing your message here.
Edit-
Also, again, I'm not saying Magic Find is the end-all be-all for finding items, but there needs to be distinction here, and so far, no one has suggested one that's fair to all parties involved.
Having hours and hours devoted to a modifier to X% was and still is a terrible idea for game play, and was pointless in and of itself when you couldn't use any of what you found. In short and infrequent instances, in the form of a buff or special encounter (akin to an EXP shrine), great incentive. But as a way of gaming, terrible cycle that negatively affects the gameplay for most players.
How boring do you guys think the game would be with an EXP mod on armor? Oh wait, I shouldn't ask.
Sorry but I like depth and challenge in my game play, and don't care for crappy elements that make me have to play in excess and in a boring repetitious state just to keep up. If I wanted to farm or do something tedious, I would plant a big veggie garden out back. (hmmm not a bad idea.)
They want to make a glorious movie-like singleplayer game (like MGS)?
They want to make a addictive arcade game ?
They want to make a e-sport competitive game ?
They want to make a cooperative game ?
They want to make a "clan fight" based game (like pvp mmrpgs) ?
I really don't know, the only thing I know is that they will not make a grind based game like D2 because this is 100% against new blizzard's gaming standarts. Every single new feature in wow and every single word of the dev's about D3 is against farming, grinding and repetitive gameplay.
My guess is D3 will be heavy focused on the cooperative and with good and fun PvP (but not a competitive one. Competitive = e-sport and in e-sports everyone have to have the same basic chances noo matter the dedication one put in the game. Only skill may make any difference. Yeah, 'im talking about equality and "game socialism", thats why wow's pvp gear are so damn easy to get and why dota, a wc3 map, is more competitive then D2 ever dreamed to be).
Will D3 have the MF mod? Problably.
Will people keep farming stuff like crazy mfers ? Surely not.
its not supposed to be a nice game
autostats are rediclous
lack of pots is not welcome
if it aint broke dont fix it! (diablo2)
You're right. Except for the fact that "work hard" does not means grind. Not for me.
Playing hours would still determine the amount of good items you find so not everyone would be equal.
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
you can find items with your top gear on, you just have a better chance w/ mf gear.
as i said before repeatable runs = terrible compared to clearing out a whole game, its simple logic
its not supposed to be a nice game
autostats are rediclous
lack of pots is not welcome
if it aint broke dont fix it! (diablo2)
If the asks you to not be lazy to play it, it surely a terrible game.
Also, if you believe all times are fun filled ( even in a game ) then you should reevaluate reality.
I lol'ed. If all times are not fun filled in a GAME then the game failed to deliver. Game were created for the sole purpose of entertainment. And thats still their ultimate goal. Its not saying that every elements in a game is always fun, but putting things in on purpose that are not supposed to be fun is probably the most stupid thing developers could do considering what games are for.
Working in real life isn't always fun, but the reward of cash keeps us coming back Same goes for MF.
I just level up my characters and if I happen to have some magic find in my main gear then thats the MF I have. And yeah I do find good gear when leveling I don't have to create another character to do some stupid runs to boss x and y.
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
Now I know that is very repetitive too, but really because it is for another cause (items rather than levels), it puts us in another mind-set and gives us a bit of a breather.
For the weaker characters that still have dungeons to explore, acts to progress through etc. it would be ridiculous to consider MF running. The usual - use the good items that you happen to accidentally find along the way - routine is perfectly accepetable.
In classic after 90 you maybe want to go CS only if river don't have Urdars. But I haven't yet leveled over 90 in classic hc.. when my main is around 88-90 I generally try some other classes cause my mules are filled with items for other classes
I just don't understand some people doesn't really do anything in the game but MF.. They have MF char and they collect items which they don't really use for anything but maybe trading. I guess thats mostly in LOD since in classic people do much more just leveling and they find items in the meantime.
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
Seriously, us MFers just love to perfect our characters, which yes, are barely ever used lol.
Levels of productivity ? Time + effort ? Games ?
When 'im gaming i'm not a worker, i'm a boss.
And i never ever said all times are fun filled. And why did you "even" in a game ??? Games shoudl be one of the only things in world fun filled lol.
I gotta a pretty heavy job, i toke my studies very seriously.. Those are the non fun filled parts of my life, but rewarding ones.
When i wanna play something I want to distress a little. So I work 6hrs/day, study other 6 hours/day, if my couple hours I have to gaming i got work again in some grind based game, damnit i'll just quit playing.
For those reasons i love the e-sports. If you want to be a elite professional you surely can pratice 8 hours/day but if just wanna "play" a little you can just call your friends and have fun, like playing soccer or football.