Can someone please explain to me the reason why synergies won't be returning? I mean, I think they are completely necessary because they add the thought that if they study another skill somewhat related to their main skill, then in turn they will learn a little bit more about their main skill. Like ice bolt is a synergie to frozen orb. Makes since because frozen orb launches out a bunch of ice bolts. I do understand that some don't make ny sense (like vigor to holy hammer wtf??) but still. Do we really need to get rid of them altogether? Or could we just limit them down a little?
if you look in the wizard and barb (partial: just berserker) sklil trees you can see that the
the wizard "talent modifiers" and the barb "passive skills" are basically synergies.
Talent Modifiers
Lethal Energy
Rank 0/15
Increases the chance to score critical hits with melee and psell attacks by 5%.
Improved Charged Bolt
Rank 0/15
Increases the number of bolts released by your Charged Bolt spell by 1.
Static Charge
Rank 0/15
Converts 5% of all damage taken into mana.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
they'll never see me coming.. life is a sequence of tragedies, inconsistent only by fleeting, elusive moments of pleasure,
serving only to ensure absolute vulnerability to the pain of their inevitable absence.
In this case I think the talent tree system, further developed in WoW, would work perfect in place of synergies. Titan Quest did this as well. Have skills that improve another skill. It makes those minor skills useful as well as give you a reason to invest points in them.
I.E. Charged bolt by itself was a pretty useless skill for a sorc at higher levels, but what if you could invest points in another ability that allows your charge bolt a chance to stun. Now charged bolt will be useful again, if not for the damage than at least for the chance to stun.
Some people hate that D3 certainly does have a WoW influence along with past Diablo games, but there are systems that WoW built up that will work in mainstream RPG's. Also Titan Quest used this same system and it worked great.
Synergies were too late fix for the somewhat flawed D2 skill system. They were an ok idea but implemented wrong. I don't want to put points to ice bolt in order to do any decent damage with Frozen Orb because I won't be using ice bolt ever.
I rather use those points to a passive skills like we probably will in D3.
Also D2 synergies are really unfair. Some skills get huge amount of synergies while others don't making some skills too powerful compared to others. Before synergies the gap between skills wasn't so huge.
Also D2 synergies are really unfair. Some skills get huge amount of synergies while others don't making some skills too powerful compared to others. Before synergies the gap between skills wasn't so huge.
+1 to that. I mean, there was certain specs that were downright awful in D2. Perhaps with the elimination of synergies, every spec will have the potential to be powerful.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I've come for your children - Your first born
I'm the monsta - The boogieman
So mothers be warned - But you give them up gladly
and yes it pretty much is the wow system without actually using trees lol
the wow trees had a lot of passives that boosted skills
which is basically, as posted above, is all the D3 tree is
You've no idea what you are talking about, do you?
First of all. Diablo 2 had a lot of passives. Refresh your memory. The Barb in D2 had a tree that was entirely made out of passives. You couldn't even spec in it since it didn't have any abilities.
Second, Diablo 3 DOES have trees. Skill tress. Three of them. And each of them is mostly riddled with active skills (which can't be said for D2).
Third, WoW DOESN'T have skill trees. You learn the skills through a completely separate mechanic, and talent trees don't have 'a lot of passives' they are essentially entirely made of passives. A single talent tree gives you one to two active skills if you spec deep enough into them, which is enough to completely turn a class around in a different direction.
So the sentiment of D3 skill trees sharing anything in common with WoW talent trees is entirely made up and false.
You've no idea what you are talking about, do you?
First of all. Diablo 2 had a lot of passives. Refresh your memory. The Barb in D2 had a tree that was entirely made out of passives. You couldn't even spec in it since it didn't have any abilities.
Second, Diablo 3 DOES have trees. Skill tress. Three of them. And each of them is mostly riddled with active skills (which can't be said for D2).
Third, WoW DOESN'T have skill trees. You learn the skills through a completely separate mechanic, and talent trees don't have 'a lot of passives' they are essentially entirely made of passives. A single talent tree gives you one to two active skills if you spec deep enough into them, which is enough to completely turn a class around in a different direction.
So the sentiment of D3 skill trees sharing anything in common with WoW talent trees is entirely made up and false.
The WoW talent trees were copied from the D2 Skill system, and anyone who can't see that is just crazy. It's just that the WoW team took it in a different direction because their skill system was already implemented. Not to mention there were certain skills you had to put points into the talent tree to unlock I.E. Trueshot Aura.
Most of the talents in the WoW talent tree system were ment to increase the effectiveness of skills you already had, and it seems D3 is taking that from WoW. Like I had said in my previous post it's better to increase a skills effectiveness or its utility rather than just using the synergy system because under a WoW/TQ system you are more likely to use the earlier skills.
And like I had also said TQ used a similar system where as certain skills in their sill tree increase the effectiveness of the previous skill. It worked out great as the skill system is what set TQ a part from other D2 clones at the time.
The D3 team is obviously taking that idea from the WoW talent tree and morphing it to work with the Diablo game play, but to say they have nothing in common is just an asinine statement, in my opinion.
You are talking nonsense again. D2 has entire trees made up of passives. WoW didn't invent that. D3 is just going to have passives that also affect your abilities in a similar fashion synergies used to do, and not just affect things like mana cost, health, armour bonus, etc...
And the "WoW talent tree was copied from D2 skill system" is a biggest bull ever. Like 'trees' didn't already exist in other games. And once again, you don't learn skills from the talent trees. Only one or two skills (and you only gain Rank 1 of that ability and then continue to learn it from a trainer).
You've no idea what you are talking about, do you?
First of all. Diablo 2 had a lot of passives. Refresh your memory. The Barb in D2 had a tree that was entirely made out of passives. You couldn't even spec in it since it didn't have any abilities.
Second, Diablo 3 DOES have trees. Skill tress. Three of them. And each of them is mostly riddled with active skills (which can't be said for D2).
Third, WoW DOESN'T have skill trees. You learn the skills through a completely separate mechanic, and talent trees don't have 'a lot of passives' they are essentially entirely made of passives. A single talent tree gives you one to two active skills if you spec deep enough into them, which is enough to completely turn a class around in a different direction.
So the sentiment of D3 skill trees sharing anything in common with WoW talent trees is entirely made up and false.
lol
thats one character
they have at the moment skill tiers and like in wow it used the number ot skill points toward advancement. the difference is right now all the skills in D3 are in like combined, but that can change at any time lol
the structure is the same and all the trees did have a few abilities in it as well =3
but unlike in diablo you just bought the skills lol
i mean noone hates WoW more than me but when i see a similarity ill point it out ... sometimes xD also wow did have some really good systems implemented into it but i think it just screwed up on basic stuff lol
Can someone please explain to me the reason why synergies won't be returning? I mean, I think they are completely necessary because they add the thought that if they study another skill somewhat related to their main skill, then in turn they will learn a little bit more about their main skill. Like ice bolt is a synergie to frozen orb. Makes since because frozen orb launches out a bunch of ice bolts. I do understand that some don't make ny sense (like vigor to holy hammer wtf??) but still. Do we really need to get rid of them altogether? Or could we just limit them down a little?
Synergies suck and we all(I wish) know it. Well, that's my firm belief anyways, The way they were implemented in D2, really screwed things up. Took away soo much diversity of the game. I mean, sure, you can make a sorc that uses meteor, frozen orb, and lightning, but, now, it's really weak...as opposed to previous 1.10(d day of d2). Sure, you can make a wolf druid that has a mighty hurricane around him at all times, but now... Sure, you can make a paladin that can swap auras, and switch between zeal, and fist of the heavens, but now... Sure, you can make an assassin with fire, and lightning traps... Sure, you can make a necro with bone spear, and summons... Get what I'm saying? Synergies took away more(a lot more) than they gave(very little, and look at the poor zons and barbs...).
Synergies suck and we all(I wish) know it. Well, that's my firm belief anyways, The way they were implemented in D2, really screwed things up. Took away soo much diversity of the game. I mean, sure, you can make a sorc that uses meteor, frozen orb, and lightning, but, now, it's really weak...as opposed to previous 1.10(d day of d2). Sure, you can make a wolf druid that has a mighty hurricane around him at all times, but now... Sure, you can make a paladin that can swap auras, and switch between zeal, and fist of the heavens, but now... Sure, you can make an assassin with fire, and lightning traps... Sure, you can make a necro with bone spear, and summons... Get what I'm saying? Synergies took away more(a lot more) than they gave(very little, and look at the poor zons and barbs...).
synergies prob gave more than took actually
considering they improved the spellcasting abilities and just about 60% of the game is spellcasting xD
the problem with them was
A. you would only tend to use 2 or 3 skills for a char
B. the spellcasting actually got too strong
C. they balanced the game around the spellcasting
which made most melee useless unless you give your char mule items
the other problem was they added runewords and also balanced the game around those
which made hell pretty much unsoloable or at least incredibly hard to do so
(unless your a hammerdin the single most broken build in these times lol)
Don't know why people put some much hate on WoW.
WoW has some elements that would make diablo 3 fanatasic (respeccing/talent trees to name a few).
So many people just like to complain I reckon; or they want diablo 2 with a diablo 3 sticker on the box.
I.E. Charged bolt by itself was a pretty useless skill for a sorc at higher levels
What a crazy thing to say! Charged Bolt always has been and is viable.
At 20/20/20, it deals a potential 2561 damage. At long range, you can expect at least 1/3 to 1/2 of them to hit.
The most depressing feature of it, is it maxes out at a measly little 24 bolts. 24! How pitiful is that? It depresses me forever.
It's not a rockstar skill, but it's in the neighborhood of Bone Spear, for fewer points.
Now Magic Arrow... really wish they'd adjust the numbers on that one. I guess it's not that fun to use so they don't want to encourage its use. Even a tiny tiny bit...
I have no idea how they improved the spellcasting abilities from 1.09. They were really ok back then.
I remember having many nice builds back then that would now be useless or at least very slow in hell. Yea I guess they did some balancing for spell casting, but they were not any stronger than in 1.09. The monsters just got a lot stronger in Act5 because now you can't just run Bloody Foothills to 99 where there was same monsters every time that had really low resistances to fire for example. Same goes for Cow level where the cows practically didn't have any resistance at all.
But if you went to Act4 with your meteor or firewall sorc in 1.09 you were in trouble. Back then you were at least able to get 2 strong spells, now you generally go all out for 1 strong spell. (maybe fb/meteor + orb is only decent dual tree) And you could also go 3 different elements at once with really great results even in hell 8 players.
Instead of putting points into useless lowbie skills for absolutely no reason, you put some points in a passive skill that is located on a certain tier and which counts towards unlocking the next tier. Sounds really good to me and gives Blizzard great balancing options.
I especially like the part where you don't have to spend 20 skill points into it to somehow make use of it, and can instead put points into other things.
Instead of putting points into useless lowbie skills for absolutely no reason, you put some points in a passive skill that is located on a certain tier and which counts towards unlocking the next tier. Sounds really good to me and gives Blizzard great balancing options.
I especially like the part where you don't have to spend 20 skill points into it to somehow make use of it, and can instead put points into other things.
Instead of putting points into useless lowbie skills for absolutely no reason, you put some points in a passive skill that is located on a certain tier and which counts towards unlocking the next tier. Sounds really good to me and gives Blizzard great balancing options.
I especially like the part where you don't have to spend 20 skill points into it to somehow make use of it, and can instead put points into other things.
so what im understanding is
we all like the new D3 system yay! xD
the lowering of max skill points is probaly the best thing they could do
so now you dont gotta put points into curses just to do dumb stuff like increase the duration xD
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Be my Buddy =^.^=
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
the wizard "talent modifiers" and the barb "passive skills" are basically synergies.
they'll never see me coming..
life is a sequence of tragedies, inconsistent only by fleeting, elusive moments of pleasure,
serving only to ensure absolute vulnerability to the pain of their inevitable absence.
Edit: but you guys can see where I'm coming from tho right?
I.E. Charged bolt by itself was a pretty useless skill for a sorc at higher levels, but what if you could invest points in another ability that allows your charge bolt a chance to stun. Now charged bolt will be useful again, if not for the damage than at least for the chance to stun.
Some people hate that D3 certainly does have a WoW influence along with past Diablo games, but there are systems that WoW built up that will work in mainstream RPG's. Also Titan Quest used this same system and it worked great.
I rather use those points to a passive skills like we probably will in D3.
Also D2 synergies are really unfair. Some skills get huge amount of synergies while others don't making some skills too powerful compared to others. Before synergies the gap between skills wasn't so huge.
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
+1 to that. I mean, there was certain specs that were downright awful in D2. Perhaps with the elimination of synergies, every spec will have the potential to be powerful.
i certainly liked them a lot better than the original diablo 2
but the new system they have is a lot lot better
and yes it pretty much is the wow system without actually using trees lol
the wow trees had a lot of passives that boosted skills
which is basically, as posted above, is all the D3 tree is
simple yet effective lol
Be my Buddy =^.^=
First of all. Diablo 2 had a lot of passives. Refresh your memory. The Barb in D2 had a tree that was entirely made out of passives. You couldn't even spec in it since it didn't have any abilities.
Second, Diablo 3 DOES have trees. Skill tress. Three of them. And each of them is mostly riddled with active skills (which can't be said for D2).
Third, WoW DOESN'T have skill trees. You learn the skills through a completely separate mechanic, and talent trees don't have 'a lot of passives' they are essentially entirely made of passives. A single talent tree gives you one to two active skills if you spec deep enough into them, which is enough to completely turn a class around in a different direction.
So the sentiment of D3 skill trees sharing anything in common with WoW talent trees is entirely made up and false.
The WoW talent trees were copied from the D2 Skill system, and anyone who can't see that is just crazy. It's just that the WoW team took it in a different direction because their skill system was already implemented. Not to mention there were certain skills you had to put points into the talent tree to unlock I.E. Trueshot Aura.
Most of the talents in the WoW talent tree system were ment to increase the effectiveness of skills you already had, and it seems D3 is taking that from WoW. Like I had said in my previous post it's better to increase a skills effectiveness or its utility rather than just using the synergy system because under a WoW/TQ system you are more likely to use the earlier skills.
And like I had also said TQ used a similar system where as certain skills in their sill tree increase the effectiveness of the previous skill. It worked out great as the skill system is what set TQ a part from other D2 clones at the time.
The D3 team is obviously taking that idea from the WoW talent tree and morphing it to work with the Diablo game play, but to say they have nothing in common is just an asinine statement, in my opinion.
And the "WoW talent tree was copied from D2 skill system" is a biggest bull ever. Like 'trees' didn't already exist in other games. And once again, you don't learn skills from the talent trees. Only one or two skills (and you only gain Rank 1 of that ability and then continue to learn it from a trainer).
lol
thats one character
they have at the moment skill tiers and like in wow it used the number ot skill points toward advancement. the difference is right now all the skills in D3 are in like combined, but that can change at any time lol
the structure is the same and all the trees did have a few abilities in it as well =3
but unlike in diablo you just bought the skills lol
i mean noone hates WoW more than me but when i see a similarity ill point it out ... sometimes xD also wow did have some really good systems implemented into it but i think it just screwed up on basic stuff lol
no need to get personal =3
Be my Buddy =^.^=
Synergies suck and we all(I wish) know it. Well, that's my firm belief anyways, The way they were implemented in D2, really screwed things up. Took away soo much diversity of the game. I mean, sure, you can make a sorc that uses meteor, frozen orb, and lightning, but, now, it's really weak...as opposed to previous 1.10(d day of d2). Sure, you can make a wolf druid that has a mighty hurricane around him at all times, but now... Sure, you can make a paladin that can swap auras, and switch between zeal, and fist of the heavens, but now... Sure, you can make an assassin with fire, and lightning traps... Sure, you can make a necro with bone spear, and summons... Get what I'm saying? Synergies took away more(a lot more) than they gave(very little, and look at the poor zons and barbs...).
synergies prob gave more than took actually
considering they improved the spellcasting abilities and just about 60% of the game is spellcasting xD
the problem with them was
A. you would only tend to use 2 or 3 skills for a char
B. the spellcasting actually got too strong
C. they balanced the game around the spellcasting
which made most melee useless unless you give your char mule items
the other problem was they added runewords and also balanced the game around those
which made hell pretty much unsoloable or at least incredibly hard to do so
(unless your a hammerdin the single most broken build in these times lol)
Be my Buddy =^.^=
WoW has some elements that would make diablo 3 fanatasic (respeccing/talent trees to name a few).
So many people just like to complain I reckon; or they want diablo 2 with a diablo 3 sticker on the box.
At 20/20/20, it deals a potential 2561 damage. At long range, you can expect at least 1/3 to 1/2 of them to hit.
The most depressing feature of it, is it maxes out at a measly little 24 bolts. 24! How pitiful is that? It depresses me forever.
It's not a rockstar skill, but it's in the neighborhood of Bone Spear, for fewer points.
Now Magic Arrow... really wish they'd adjust the numbers on that one. I guess it's not that fun to use so they don't want to encourage its use. Even a tiny tiny bit...
I remember having many nice builds back then that would now be useless or at least very slow in hell. Yea I guess they did some balancing for spell casting, but they were not any stronger than in 1.09. The monsters just got a lot stronger in Act5 because now you can't just run Bloody Foothills to 99 where there was same monsters every time that had really low resistances to fire for example. Same goes for Cow level where the cows practically didn't have any resistance at all.
But if you went to Act4 with your meteor or firewall sorc in 1.09 you were in trouble. Back then you were at least able to get 2 strong spells, now you generally go all out for 1 strong spell. (maybe fb/meteor + orb is only decent dual tree) And you could also go 3 different elements at once with really great results even in hell 8 players.
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
I especially like the part where you don't have to spend 20 skill points into it to somehow make use of it, and can instead put points into other things.
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
so what im understanding is
we all like the new D3 system yay! xD
the lowering of max skill points is probaly the best thing they could do
so now you dont gotta put points into curses just to do dumb stuff like increase the duration xD
Be my Buddy =^.^=