I wanted to know if everyone thinks it would be cool if certain weapons would actually be viable options in the game. I am thinking of things such as spears, halberds, etc. Maybe I just never played the right build to use these, but it seemed to me no one played with them. It would be cool to have an awesome spear one could kill monsters with.
As I understand it, amazons used spears alot. Me personally, a WW barb with a halbard type weapon was pretty effective.
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The thing that sepatates the spears and halberds from te swords and axes is the range. In D2 this wasn;t emphasised enough in my opinion, and people simply found swords with better stats. To truly make these weapons effective for something like the barbarian, they need to have a good range and area of effect radius which would puch back monsters. To compensate for this and balance out the weapons a lower damage and a slower hit rate than swords and axes is needed. However, Diablo 3 is such a fast paced game I really don't think anyone will bother with that and everyone will go with swords anyway. Characters have so many skills and powers that they just need any weapon at the end of their arms and would still deal good damage. If the game was a bit slower and people had to take more time over killing monsters, then the tactics of keeping your enemy at a distance and saving your health would work, but the game isn't like that. Perhaps it could work, but in my opinion they will be treated like swords, and the weapons with teh better stats always win.
If they did add the larger attack area, and perhaps longer distance with spears, I could see this balancing out. I doubt they would need to do less damage as special abilities seems to be used more often then before, the slower speeds should be enough. Also it'd also be nice if certain abilities used this extra radius. That could help add weapon diversity by making certain builds better use different weapons.
slowing down long range weapons is entirely the wrong approach. Most 2 handed axes are already too slow in D2 to by viable weapons compared to their 1handed counterparts.
the solution to this is more along these lines, taken from a post on another thread that I made on a different website many moons ago:
There should be these tradeoffs in all weapons. The smaller the weapon, the faster the weapon speed but also the lower the damage. IE weapon speed should be inversely proportionate to damage. A dagger would have fastest weapon speed but lowest damage, whereas one of those huge 2handed thundermaul's would have highest damage and slowest speed. Also, the damage relationship between one handed and 2 handed weapons is totally out of wack. similar quality 2 handed weapons should do 2.5 times the damage of their 1 handed counterparts. This is because dual wielding 2 1 handed weapons would not enable you to equal the damage of a 2 handed weapon. The advantage to the 1 handers would be speed, and for that you would have to sacrifice damage. Also, another relationship of 1 handers vs. two handers, is that for the most part-not including pole weapons, a 1 handed weapon would have a longer range then a 2 hander, but would not be as accurate. So while 1 handers have longer range, 2 handers would have an inherit AR bonus. So it would work like this:
Weapon Type Attack Speed Range Damage AR bonus
Dagger VVF 1 12-14
1h mace VF 3 20-30
1h sword F 4 18-25
1h axe A 3 28-36
1h Hammer S 3 34-44
2h sword S 3 45-62 10%
2h mace S 2 50-75 10%
2h Axe VS 2 70-90 10%
2h Hammer VVS 2 85-110 8%
This is just an example. The disparity in damage between 2h swords and 2h hammers is probably a bit much. I decreased the 2h hammer AR bonus, as a 2h hammer will not be as balanced as the other 2h weapons.
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I would like to see a more complex weapon system in Diablo. Daggers need to find their place, and people shouldn't just haul the weapon with the highest damage all the time (there really was no difference between swords scepters and axes, honestly).
If a weapon is useless, it shouldn't be in the game at all. But if there is a weapon enhancing spell that adds fixed magical damage to any attack, this is where you'd need the fastest weapon possible.
Another issue is + attack speed modifiers. With daggers, they really got nowhere to go... they need to go further or the modifier needs to go.
the other idea I had had previously is linking weapon type to damage type modifiers:
Such as crushing blow for blunt weapons or 2 handers only and such. I still don't know how much difference that would make.
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Such as crushing blow for blunt weapons or 2 handers only and such.
Sort of what S2 did. Swords cause open wounds etc.
Quote from "Chemedeiros"" »
using a dagger you had a more fast attack speef, but you cause less damage...
Problem was that you could get a regular sword to this state with more damage.
Quote from "Chemedeiros;415620 »
that is complicating the hack&slash type... what can prejudicate the gameplay. and we dont want that lol
Well, that can be good or bad. I like complicated games.
Quote from Airandius" »
They could make certain skill require a certain weapon like the person above me said.
A witch doctor could for example add poison to any dagger, making it far more better. But it can't be done on other weapons.
Well, like Necro's poison dagger, I guess.
Something like that. I'd prefer less limitations, more along the lines of "blunt weapon" rather than "2h mace".
I really like the idea of creating the spears in such a way they have a clear range advantage. If they could make it work, I would love to be able to use a spear an do well.
well, the issue was that the really slow weapons didn't do enough damage for how slow they were and the really fast weapons weren't a big enough difference to make up for the low damage.
Another thing I hope we have is an advantage to really loading up on Def. I hate hate hate the fact that you could get a really high def and some monster would ignore it......or that after a while it made no difference.
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]"Fool! You have just ensured the doom of this world. You cannot even begin to imagine what you've set in motion this day. Go to the Temple of Light, in the eastern ciry of Kurast. There you will find the gate to Hell opened before you. You must find the courage to step through that gate Marius. Take the stone you hold to the Hellforge, where it will be destroyed. Now run! Take the stone and run!"
Another thing I hope we have is an advantage to really loading up on Def. I hate hate hate the fact that you could get a really high def and some monster would ignore it......or that after a while it made no difference.
Yeah, many DII monsters were made specifically to overpower you, which made no sense in terms of building. And how about all the monsters immune to stun? What if you depend on that...
Yeah, I hope they stretch out a bit on the amount of viable weapons. It seemed to me like there were only a few types that were even worth building for. Even my javazon is super underpowered because I can't find a good enough jav for her :(.
So in going with the "every character is unique" theme that they are trying to do; I'd hope that they also take into consideration not pigeon holing us into 3 or 4 good types of weapons and the rest are more or less usless.
Yeah, I hope they stretch out a bit on the amount of viable weapons. It seemed to me like there were only a few types that were even worth building for. Even my javazon is super underpowered because I can't find a good enough jav for her :(.
So in going with the "every character is unique" theme that they are trying to do; I'd hope that they also take into consideration not pigeon holing us into 3 or 4 good types of weapons and the rest are more or less usless.
another way to address this would be to make it were you can reroll embues on an item until you get something worth using.
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yeah, but it totally makes a def oriented build impractical.
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Those things made the game harder. And that's making the game more fun in my opinion.
I disagree. They made the game harder only for those people who tried weird builds. For the hammerdin, they didn't do anything whatsoever.
You cannot completely block off a skill as DII did because that erases the viability of a given build while not erasing it for more cookie cutter builds. You cannot say Diablo is immune to stun if there is a spell that causes stun, you at least need to leave some sort of an effect on Diablo so that a person using that skill has some sort of a benefit. You can give him a small chance to get stun but please leave SOMETHING.
Who will invest in a spell that doesn't work against a very important monster, such as a boss? I'd say only people who are really into being unique about their builds.
I hope they put 1handed non-throwable spears into the game. I loved jabazons, but i didn't like that I had to use a throwable jav, since it's actuall melee damage was so low. Plus it couldn't get sockets, so runewords were out. Or still make it throwable, but the difference between throw damage and stab damage not so big so melee combat with it would still be more effective.
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I wanted to know if everyone thinks it would be cool if certain weapons would actually be viable options in the game. I am thinking of things such as spears, halberds, etc. Maybe I just never played the right build to use these, but it seemed to me no one played with them. It would be cool to have an awesome spear one could kill monsters with.
More variety would indeed be nice though.
the solution to this is more along these lines, taken from a post on another thread that I made on a different website many moons ago:
There should be these tradeoffs in all weapons. The smaller the weapon, the faster the weapon speed but also the lower the damage. IE weapon speed should be inversely proportionate to damage. A dagger would have fastest weapon speed but lowest damage, whereas one of those huge 2handed thundermaul's would have highest damage and slowest speed. Also, the damage relationship between one handed and 2 handed weapons is totally out of wack. similar quality 2 handed weapons should do 2.5 times the damage of their 1 handed counterparts. This is because dual wielding 2 1 handed weapons would not enable you to equal the damage of a 2 handed weapon. The advantage to the 1 handers would be speed, and for that you would have to sacrifice damage. Also, another relationship of 1 handers vs. two handers, is that for the most part-not including pole weapons, a 1 handed weapon would have a longer range then a 2 hander, but would not be as accurate. So while 1 handers have longer range, 2 handers would have an inherit AR bonus. So it would work like this:
Weapon Type Attack Speed Range Damage AR bonus
Dagger VVF 1 12-14
1h mace VF 3 20-30
1h sword F 4 18-25
1h axe A 3 28-36
1h Hammer S 3 34-44
2h sword S 3 45-62 10%
2h mace S 2 50-75 10%
2h Axe VS 2 70-90 10%
2h Hammer VVS 2 85-110 8%
This is just an example. The disparity in damage between 2h swords and 2h hammers is probably a bit much. I decreased the 2h hammer AR bonus, as a 2h hammer will not be as balanced as the other 2h weapons.
If a weapon is useless, it shouldn't be in the game at all. But if there is a weapon enhancing spell that adds fixed magical damage to any attack, this is where you'd need the fastest weapon possible.
Another issue is + attack speed modifiers. With daggers, they really got nowhere to go... they need to go further or the modifier needs to go.
Such as crushing blow for blunt weapons or 2 handers only and such. I still don't know how much difference that would make.
Well, that can be good or bad. I like complicated games. Well, like Necro's poison dagger, I guess.
Something like that. I'd prefer less limitations, more along the lines of "blunt weapon" rather than "2h mace".
Another thing I hope we have is an advantage to really loading up on Def. I hate hate hate the fact that you could get a really high def and some monster would ignore it......or that after a while it made no difference.
So in going with the "every character is unique" theme that they are trying to do; I'd hope that they also take into consideration not pigeon holing us into 3 or 4 good types of weapons and the rest are more or less usless.
Amen! Exactly the thoughts i'm having!
You cannot completely block off a skill as DII did because that erases the viability of a given build while not erasing it for more cookie cutter builds. You cannot say Diablo is immune to stun if there is a spell that causes stun, you at least need to leave some sort of an effect on Diablo so that a person using that skill has some sort of a benefit. You can give him a small chance to get stun but please leave SOMETHING.
Who will invest in a spell that doesn't work against a very important monster, such as a boss? I'd say only people who are really into being unique about their builds.
you don't take - Wayne Gretzky"
- Michael Scott