Let me first apologize for the wall of text lol... But its just three main topics to keep it simple.
It is true that as people read so many comments from Diablo fans you sence the lust for Diablo to stay out of the MMO genre. Yet when you look closely at the actual complaints of the fans they actually tend to want alot of MMO features in the game...
There is a thread on here talking about the number of players in a game... most people were complaining about the max being caped at 4 players which to me seams more like a problem that would exist in an MMO... MMOs usually revolve around the player needing to party up with certain classes in order to progress in the storyline or else otherwise it would not happen. To remain true to diablo.... True Diablo, Original Diablo, was really a single player game. The entire story was a lone warrior desending into hell by himself with no aid, against all odds to defeat the lord of terror.
Alot of people want alot of story... These were the first kind of complaints about D3 even b4 they announced and specualtion started. Alot of people basicly said they would be happy if D3 remaind exactly like D2 just with like 20 or so acts... A very interesting suggestion coming from very hardcore diablo fans. So here we see players putting aside all need for improved graphics, better (more interesting) gameplay, and most importantly the GRIND! Its true that the game is beat very earily in your lvling. and after that the game becomes a Grind Fest... which is peculiar because most of the storyline that pertains to the main plot of an MMO begins at the last level. Take for example Blizzards MMO that gets beat up so much... WoW. In original WoW the main storyline dident really happen till lvl 60... the max lvl... in burning crusade the main plot dident get really unfolded untill lvl 70... max lvl and in Wrath of the Lich king... well in its current state... the plot hasent even ended and you will need to be lvl 80 (max lvl) to finish it and in the best gear... along with a well geared grp which goes back to the first point. Diablo has the most immersive storyline out of any game.... its not very hard to comprehend why characters want to keep playing in the storyline untill possibly max lvl. I always thought it was kind of odd doing the exact same story 3 x (d2; 2x original D) over and it just get really harder each step of they way. I rather it get just as hard through the lvls and have more story myself. but that would really take away from True Diablo. But i do belive they are trying to expand the lore of the Diablo universe in D3 so hopefully the main story will take you through more of your lvling.
The game is in the end an RPG and characters are unbalanced... how funny it is that the same problem exists in WoW; however, even more so in WoW. Original Diablo in pvp terms it would be stupid to be anything else than the sorcerer... why cuz they could do everything... they could attack just like a warrior and a rogue and in addition to that they could cast the best spells in the game from a distance! woooooo ima pick sorc... they have a instant kill button lol. But it wasent really a concern becuase the game is not soposed to be pvp oriented... its not even soposed to be multiplayer oriented.... it is soposed to be true to the Role Playing Part of the RPG lol... so a pally most say sucked when diablo 2 first came out... remember those days in d2 v1.0???? when pally had zeal and thats about it... so while barbs, zons, sorcs, and necros could kill mobs of cows in their grind to 99... palys most of the time would just leach exp cuz they would kill one cow in the time it took any other class to kill 15-20 lol. Many people complained about this... and blizz did infact balance the chars out in the 1.10 patch in a way lol... but truly broke it in the sence of remaining True to Diablo...
So thats just some food for thought... i know this is prob gonna get flamed becuase that seams to be the nature of these sites... but o well lol i tried to keep it simple for you flamers actually lol so you would not have to spend soooo much time disecting it... since thats what you guys like to do lol... so go head and leave a comment id like to hear what you think.
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"Always respect the purity of battle. For only in the heart of combat are all pretenses of nobility and quality stripped away, replaced by survival and death."
So.... what's your point again? You didn't seem to be very clear on that.
You for or against MMO-Diablo?
Personally, I'm against. MMO =/= Diablo. You can keep it that way and still have plently of awesome features. Just because it has alot of story doesn't make it an MMO. Having alot of grinding doesn't make it an MMO. Being capped at 4 characters is good, that keeps it out of the MMO genre
I dont want to say im for it or against it for a reason... just sheding light on the fact that there are quite a few MMO features that people want in the game that people are asking for without realizing that it takes away from the true essence of Diablo (at least in its original form). The main thing is that alot of people want these things that revolve around multiplayer mostly when Diablo isent really soposed to be a multiplayer game... The actual story always involves one hero not multiple heros... I mean its a nice option to play with friends and what not, but that is not what is going on in the storyline. So if you were to put what the story is saying and what is really going on in the gameplay you have two different things going on... and if you tried to make the story adapt to what is going on in the game play it turns more into an MMO than an RPG... that is the real problem lol. More Clear???
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"Always respect the purity of battle. For only in the heart of combat are all pretenses of nobility and quality stripped away, replaced by survival and death."
Im just saying when you play over multiplayer the gameplay and the story are not consistent... and not all mmos have to cost per month take Guild Wars for example. And the new KotOR MMO thats comming out
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"Always respect the purity of battle. For only in the heart of combat are all pretenses of nobility and quality stripped away, replaced by survival and death."
There is no such thing as a "MMO feature".
There is a very large difference between a singleplayer/multiplayer instanced game (which is sort of classical now) and a MMO.
Diablo III is growing up, not losing its face.
Transformation to a MMO also leads to the destruction of the grind. The MMO grind (which I hate) and the Diablo grind (which is quite enjoyable) cannot be compared or confused.
There is no such thing as a "MMO feature".
There is a very large difference between a singleplayer/multiplayer instanced game (which is sort of classical now) and a MMO.
Diablo III is growing up, not losing its face.
Transformation to a MMO also leads to the destruction of the grind. The MMO grind (which I hate) and the Diablo grind (which is quite enjoyable) cannot be compared or confused.
I gotta agree with the grind part. Playing both WoW and Diablo 2 extensively, the grind is much more fun when it's an Actiong-RPG. MMO = Massively Multiplayer Online. I think the cap for multiplayer is like 4 for Diablo III, that's not very massive... lol.
i agree with you all... i am not for the diablo MMO i really like the story behind diablo and thats why i play it... I hate grinding in any game or farming... i find it really old really really fast just to get to some godly lvl... Im more of a D&D fan i guess in that sence... I play to live or act out a storyline, i get criticized alot for this but thats just what i like in a game and thats how i have fun playing them. If i grind or farm in a game its usually to get an item that goes along with the Bio of my char or some very historical item. Thats kinda what i like about WoW is the whole fact that the story never really ends.
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"Always respect the purity of battle. For only in the heart of combat are all pretenses of nobility and quality stripped away, replaced by survival and death."
I kinda hope for at least 10 players/ game.. but party size should be limited to 5.
Too much action on screen isn't gonna make it fun.. its a zergfest. Those 8ppl run games in D2 are ridiculous atm, they should be penalized for being in such a huge party by dividing the exp so greatly that it wouldn't be beneficial.
I wonder what all the helpless people would do when they didn't get to leech any exp in 8ppl parties.
yeah your very right especially if they are all decked out lol with all those auras and cos coa items lol... there is alot going on the screen.
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"Always respect the purity of battle. For only in the heart of combat are all pretenses of nobility and quality stripped away, replaced by survival and death."
I think that was fair and honest. A good read. Maybe not grammatically or spelling-wise, but its meanings were. There's a lot of truth to that.
The thing people have to realize is that Diablo III is essentially becoming a new amalgamation of instant-action, better graphics, and various qualities of MMO's.
Now, what the age-old Diablo fan base is providing is a counterbalance to the overtly-MMO-favored new fan base and staff of the Diablo III team. Both sides of the argument here are important to the games design because they balance out how the game plays and create a new type of RPG- a mixutre of an MMORPG and a ARPG- something which will inevitably be even more expanded upon in the years to come because of Diablo III being one of the primary games to champion the way to change.
Yeah ive always seen the diablo series tend to introduce alot of new features to the gaming market... I truly belive that WoW did sooooo well mainly becuase Diablo 2 was such a sucsess. And I really dont think D2 is a perfect game... there are alot of cool features in many other games that i think would work well in D3. Another thing is that the PC market is tending to lean towards MMOs... the biggest names in PC games are tending to be more MMO oriented and alot more MMOs are comming out now than ever.. so if they add features that resemble MMOs then im not surprised.
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"Always respect the purity of battle. For only in the heart of combat are all pretenses of nobility and quality stripped away, replaced by survival and death."
Diablo III being one of teh primary games to champion the way to change.
Only if Diablo dies. Other games in the same genre always get disregarded because of the whole Diablo thing and people not wanting to play anything besides Diablo.
It doesn't push the genre, it overrides it, I'm afraid.
Best Role-Playing Game of the Year, Editors Choice Awards - PC Games
Ranked Second Best Role-Playing Game of All time - Gamecenter
1998 Best Role-Playing Game Software Publishers Association
Best Role-Playing Game of the year Runner up PC Gamer
Role-Playing game of the year - Game center
Role-Playing game of the year - Online Game Review
Role-Playing game of the year - Computer net player
Role Playing Game of the year - Computer Games Strategy Plus
Diablo II:
Roleplaying Game of the Year - Academy of Interactive Arts and Sciences
Roleplaying Game of the Year - PC Dome Magazine
Diablo II Lord of Destruction:
Best Roleplaying and Adventure Game of the Year (Gold Medal) - Wargamer
Role Playing and Adventure Game of the Year 2001 - Wargamer
This is for all of you that think that Diablo is not an RPG lol... but notice how many more awards Original Diablo got in the RPG section thats why i say Original Diablo is very RPG oriented and people tend to forget this major aspect of the Original game.
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"Always respect the purity of battle. For only in the heart of combat are all pretenses of nobility and quality stripped away, replaced by survival and death."
Transformation to a MMO also leads to the destruction of the grind. The MMO grind (which I hate) and the Diablo grind (which is quite enjoyable) cannot be compared or confused.
What the hell is MMO grind? You level in Diablo by constantly killing monsters that give you most EXP. In MMO's, the best source of EXP is doing quests, and quests constantly make you go to different places and kill different things.
Getting items in D2 means grinding the same boss 200 times a day. Getting items in WoW means being good enough to progress through a dungeon and kill some bosses once a week. I'm the most successful Warlock on the server I play at the moment, and I literally log into the game three times a week. And I never have to grind gold or whatever. By the time current content becomes boring, new patch will already be out, with new dungeons and bosses and challenges.
D2 is nothing but pure grind. WoW currently has zero grind content. Zero.
Depends how you view grinding. When you do as many quests as you do in an MMO, they all begin to repeat their missions over and over again. Go kill this monster, go kill this monster so many times, give this item to this person, find this thing. It got boring to me after a while. It became a grind for me. There is no long-standing game that can avoid this- it's a limit of computer programs since they can't run like real life.
However, like I said, with Diablo III, they're mixing this typical feature of MMO's with Diablo's ARPG structure. Random quests will in all honesty function the same way.- redundant quest basics being rehashed over and over again, like in an MMO. Of course, I don't believe they said specifically if a reward would be experience or not. If anyone knows any more about the reward front, feel free to correct me.
It is true that as people read so many comments from Diablo fans you sence the lust for Diablo to stay out of the MMO genre. Yet when you look closely at the actual complaints of the fans they actually tend to want alot of MMO features in the game...
There is a thread on here talking about the number of players in a game... most people were complaining about the max being caped at 4 players which to me seams more like a problem that would exist in an MMO... MMOs usually revolve around the player needing to party up with certain classes in order to progress in the storyline or else otherwise it would not happen. To remain true to diablo.... True Diablo, Original Diablo, was really a single player game. The entire story was a lone warrior desending into hell by himself with no aid, against all odds to defeat the lord of terror.
Alot of people want alot of story... These were the first kind of complaints about D3 even b4 they announced and specualtion started. Alot of people basicly said they would be happy if D3 remaind exactly like D2 just with like 20 or so acts... A very interesting suggestion coming from very hardcore diablo fans. So here we see players putting aside all need for improved graphics, better (more interesting) gameplay, and most importantly the GRIND! Its true that the game is beat very earily in your lvling. and after that the game becomes a Grind Fest... which is peculiar because most of the storyline that pertains to the main plot of an MMO begins at the last level. Take for example Blizzards MMO that gets beat up so much... WoW. In original WoW the main storyline dident really happen till lvl 60... the max lvl... in burning crusade the main plot dident get really unfolded untill lvl 70... max lvl and in Wrath of the Lich king... well in its current state... the plot hasent even ended and you will need to be lvl 80 (max lvl) to finish it and in the best gear... along with a well geared grp which goes back to the first point. Diablo has the most immersive storyline out of any game.... its not very hard to comprehend why characters want to keep playing in the storyline untill possibly max lvl. I always thought it was kind of odd doing the exact same story 3 x (d2; 2x original D) over and it just get really harder each step of they way. I rather it get just as hard through the lvls and have more story myself. but that would really take away from True Diablo. But i do belive they are trying to expand the lore of the Diablo universe in D3 so hopefully the main story will take you through more of your lvling.
The game is in the end an RPG and characters are unbalanced... how funny it is that the same problem exists in WoW; however, even more so in WoW. Original Diablo in pvp terms it would be stupid to be anything else than the sorcerer... why cuz they could do everything... they could attack just like a warrior and a rogue and in addition to that they could cast the best spells in the game from a distance! woooooo ima pick sorc... they have a instant kill button lol. But it wasent really a concern becuase the game is not soposed to be pvp oriented... its not even soposed to be multiplayer oriented.... it is soposed to be true to the Role Playing Part of the RPG lol... so a pally most say sucked when diablo 2 first came out... remember those days in d2 v1.0???? when pally had zeal and thats about it... so while barbs, zons, sorcs, and necros could kill mobs of cows in their grind to 99... palys most of the time would just leach exp cuz they would kill one cow in the time it took any other class to kill 15-20 lol. Many people complained about this... and blizz did infact balance the chars out in the 1.10 patch in a way lol... but truly broke it in the sence of remaining True to Diablo...
So thats just some food for thought... i know this is prob gonna get flamed becuase that seams to be the nature of these sites... but o well lol i tried to keep it simple for you flamers actually lol so you would not have to spend soooo much time disecting it... since thats what you guys like to do lol... so go head and leave a comment id like to hear what you think.
-Leoric of Khanduras, The Craft of War
You for or against MMO-Diablo?
Personally, I'm against. MMO =/= Diablo. You can keep it that way and still have plently of awesome features. Just because it has alot of story doesn't make it an MMO. Having alot of grinding doesn't make it an MMO. Being capped at 4 characters is good, that keeps it out of the MMO genre
-Leoric of Khanduras, The Craft of War
What would be the point of it? Besides having another 200 people on MP with you on the server and filling Blizzard's purse I mean.
EDIT: Diablo is NOT an rpg.
-Leoric of Khanduras, The Craft of War
There is a very large difference between a singleplayer/multiplayer instanced game (which is sort of classical now) and a MMO.
Diablo III is growing up, not losing its face.
Transformation to a MMO also leads to the destruction of the grind. The MMO grind (which I hate) and the Diablo grind (which is quite enjoyable) cannot be compared or confused.
I gotta agree with the grind part. Playing both WoW and Diablo 2 extensively, the grind is much more fun when it's an Actiong-RPG. MMO = Massively Multiplayer Online. I think the cap for multiplayer is like 4 for Diablo III, that's not very massive... lol.
-Leoric of Khanduras, The Craft of War
Too much action on screen isn't gonna make it fun.. its a zergfest. Those 8ppl run games in D2 are ridiculous atm, they should be penalized for being in such a huge party by dividing the exp so greatly that it wouldn't be beneficial.
I wonder what all the helpless people would do when they didn't get to leech any exp in 8ppl parties.
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
-Leoric of Khanduras, The Craft of War
Warhammer Online: Mystics - R40/RR41 Goblin Shaman
The thing people have to realize is that Diablo III is essentially becoming a new amalgamation of instant-action, better graphics, and various qualities of MMO's.
Now, what the age-old Diablo fan base is providing is a counterbalance to the overtly-MMO-favored new fan base and staff of the Diablo III team. Both sides of the argument here are important to the games design because they balance out how the game plays and create a new type of RPG- a mixutre of an MMORPG and a ARPG- something which will inevitably be even more expanded upon in the years to come because of Diablo III being one of the primary games to champion the way to change.
That's my personal opinion.
Yes it is.
CyberPunk RP Nexus
-Leoric of Khanduras, The Craft of War
It doesn't push the genre, it overrides it, I'm afraid.
I'd also like you to clarify your last sentence there, it doesn't really make sense to me and I don't know how to respond to it.
if you think Diablo is not an RPG...
Diablo:
Best Role-Playing Game of the Year, Editors Choice Awards - PC Games
Ranked Second Best Role-Playing Game of All time - Gamecenter
1998 Best Role-Playing Game Software Publishers Association
Best Role-Playing Game of the year Runner up PC Gamer
Role-Playing game of the year - Game center
Role-Playing game of the year - Online Game Review
Role-Playing game of the year - Computer net player
Role Playing Game of the year - Computer Games Strategy Plus
Diablo II:
Roleplaying Game of the Year - Academy of Interactive Arts and Sciences
Roleplaying Game of the Year - PC Dome Magazine
Diablo II Lord of Destruction:
Best Roleplaying and Adventure Game of the Year (Gold Medal) - Wargamer
Role Playing and Adventure Game of the Year 2001 - Wargamer
This is for all of you that think that Diablo is not an RPG lol... but notice how many more awards Original Diablo got in the RPG section thats why i say Original Diablo is very RPG oriented and people tend to forget this major aspect of the Original game.
-Leoric of Khanduras, The Craft of War
Getting items in D2 means grinding the same boss 200 times a day. Getting items in WoW means being good enough to progress through a dungeon and kill some bosses once a week. I'm the most successful Warlock on the server I play at the moment, and I literally log into the game three times a week. And I never have to grind gold or whatever. By the time current content becomes boring, new patch will already be out, with new dungeons and bosses and challenges.
D2 is nothing but pure grind. WoW currently has zero grind content. Zero.
However, like I said, with Diablo III, they're mixing this typical feature of MMO's with Diablo's ARPG structure. Random quests will in all honesty function the same way.- redundant quest basics being rehashed over and over again, like in an MMO. Of course, I don't believe they said specifically if a reward would be experience or not. If anyone knows any more about the reward front, feel free to correct me.