Blizzard had claimed that the new skills in Diablo 3 were going to be much improved from what they were in D2, saying that they were going to be far more archetypal and visually stunning. Not to mention the uniqueness they would bring to not only each character, but the game as a whole.
Here is a direct quote from Jay Wilson from an interview back in June. The full article can be found here.
When moving from there to skill design, Wilson stresses the skill needs to have a unique kind of feel that meshes with the character class' personality and lore. Trying to design a character around more invisible statistical bonuses isn't a good idea. "We could have a skill where you do one extra percent of critical damage it's like, oh that's not very exciting…if that's what you're defining your character by, well that's not a really awesome character."
Seeing the new skills for the wizard and barbarian classes absolutely contradicts Jay Wilson's word in this interview. The majority of all the skills are in fact "invisible statistical bonuses."
I know nothing is set in stone yet, but I would imagine it's pretty safe to assume that the skills seen at blizzcon are not going to change drastically for the most part, and those will be the skills we see implemented into the final game. Being so disappointed, I took the time to do some of my own statistics, and came up with these figures. My calculations have been based solely off of the released skill trees for the barbarian and wizard. I define attack skills as any skill that can directly damage an enemy. Skills that act as buffs, such as Battle Cry, are only counted as active skills.
Wizard -Storm Talents: 12 out of 18 skills are statistic boosts. 33.3% is active skills. 6 out of 6 of the active skills are attack skills. (I included storm armor as an attack since it shoots bolts at attackers)
-Arcane: 12 out of 19 skills are statistic boosts. 36.8% is active skills. 5 out of 7 of the active skills are attack skills.
-Conjure: 11 out of 18 skills are statistic boosts. 38.9% is active skills. 5 out of 7 the active skills are attack skills.
Totaled up: 20 out of 55 skills are active skills, 16 of them being attacks.
36.3% make up active skills, 63.7% are statistic boosts.
Barbarian
-Juggernaut: 12 out of 18 skills are statistic boosts. 33.3 is active skills. 5 out of 6 of the active skills are attack skills.
-Battlemaster: 12 out of 17 skills are statistic boosts. 29.4% is active skills. 2 out of the 5 active skills are attack skills.
-Berserker: 13 out of 18 skills are statistic boosts. 27.8% is active skills. 3 out of the 5 active skills are attack skills.
Totaled up: 15 out of 53 skills are active skills, 10 of them being attacks.
28.3% make up active skills, 71.7% are statistic boosts.
Taking the total of both class' skills added together yields:
35 out of 108 skills are active skills, 26 of them being attacks.
32.4% are active skills, 67.6% are statistic boosts.
These are the numbers. Nothing has been skewed. I'll let the rest of you make your own judgements from these statistics. (pun intended)
Well, it's Blizzard. They can be the biggest hypocrites in the world, but no one can make them admit it and we all buy their games in the end anyway. Watcha gonna do?
I see what your saying in a way, but I think the skills look bad ass and personally, I love to upgrade skills and pump into these "boring" statistics...it makes you feel like you are mastering something, and you are strong.
Blizzard had claimed that the new skills in Diablo 3 were going to be much improved from what they were in D2, saying that they were going to be far more archetypal and visually stunning. Not to mention the uniqueness they would bring to not only each character, but the game as a whole.
Here is a direct quote from Jay Wilson from an interview back in June. The full article can be found here.
Seeing the new skills for the wizard and barbarian classes absolutely contradicts Jay Wilson's word in this interview. The majority of all the skills are in fact "invisible statistical bonuses."
I know nothing is set in stone yet, but I would imagine it's pretty safe to assume that the skills seen at blizzcon are not going to change drastically for the most part, and those will be the skills we see implemented into the final game. Being so disappointed, I took the time to do some of my own statistics, and came up with these figures. My calculations have been based solely off of the released skill trees for the barbarian and wizard. I define attack skills as any skill that can directly damage an enemy. Skills that act as buffs, such as Battle Cry, are only counted as active skills.
Wizard -Storm Talents: 12 out of 18 skills are statistic boosts. 33.3% is active skills. 6 out of 6 of the active skills are attack skills. (I included storm armor as an attack since it shoots bolts at attackers)
-Arcane: 12 out of 19 skills are statistic boosts. 36.8% is active skills. 5 out of 7 of the active skills are attack skills.
-Conjure: 11 out of 18 skills are statistic boosts. 38.9% is active skills. 5 out of 7 the active skills are attack skills.
Totaled up: 20 out of 55 skills are active skills, 16 of them being attacks.
36.3% make up active skills, 63.7% are statistic boosts.
Barbarian
-Juggernaut: 12 out of 18 skills are statistic boosts. 33.3 is active skills. 5 out of 6 of the active skills are attack skills.
-Battlemaster: 12 out of 17 skills are statistic boosts. 29.4% is active skills. 2 out of the 5 active skills are attack skills.
-Berserker: 13 out of 18 skills are statistic boosts. 27.8% is active skills. 3 out of the 5 active skills are attack skills.
Totaled up: 15 out of 53 skills are active skills, 10 of them being attacks.
28.3% make up active skills, 71.7% are statistic boosts.
Taking the total of both class' skills added together yields:
35 out of 108 skills are active skills, 26 of them being attacks.
32.4% are active skills, 67.6% are statistic boosts.
These are the numbers. Nothing has been skewed. I'll let the rest of you make your own judgements from these statistics. (pun intended)
I see your point.
However they done that for really good reasons:
1) They wnat the gameplay to be focused at fast combat. So they tryed to make you have around 6 active abilites in a build, different fromt eh recent MMORPG's that your character have about 20~40 skills, and thats make the gameplay really complicated and no-viceral.
2) Doing this they choose to make skills activable with a few points (1 in the demo, but a little more in the final verion - i believe). So to upgrade it's power you have to use passive abilities.
Just think this way:
In D2 you have the ice bolt skills. How you increase the power of this skill? Putting points into it or in one of the skills with synergies. So your option is increase it's damage.
In D3 how you increase the power of a Spell ? You just not put points into it, you will put point in different options of how upgrade it, like some to increase the damage, but some increase the critical rate, some increase more then one skill.
This system may sounds weird for D2 players but the ppl that plays wow, aoc or war thinks that the passive skills are nor but the D3's talents. Believe, you will like it more thne D2's whe you test it.
Still you got the point. JW's mad as think that they would not abuse of passive effects, wich was stupid imo. Passive effects is one pillar of rpg's costumisation -be it status point or a huge list of passive skills.
Blizzard had claimed that the new skills in Diablo 3 were going to be much improved from what they were in D2, saying that they were going to be far more archetypal and visually stunning. Not to mention the uniqueness they would bring to not only each character, but the game as a whole.
Here is a direct quote from Jay Wilson from an interview back in June. The full article can be found here.
Seeing the new skills for the wizard and barbarian classes absolutely contradicts Jay Wilson's word in this interview. The majority of all the skills are in fact "invisible statistical bonuses."
I know nothing is set in stone yet, but I would imagine it's pretty safe to assume that the skills seen at blizzcon are not going to change drastically for the most part, and those will be the skills we see implemented into the final game. Being so disappointed, I took the time to do some of my own statistics, and came up with these figures. My calculations have been based solely off of the released skill trees for the barbarian and wizard. I define attack skills as any skill that can directly damage an enemy. Skills that act as buffs, such as Battle Cry, are only counted as active skills.
Wizard -Storm Talents: 12 out of 18 skills are statistic boosts. 33.3% is active skills. 6 out of 6 of the active skills are attack skills. (I included storm armor as an attack since it shoots bolts at attackers)
-Arcane: 12 out of 19 skills are statistic boosts. 36.8% is active skills. 5 out of 7 of the active skills are attack skills.
-Conjure: 11 out of 18 skills are statistic boosts. 38.9% is active skills. 5 out of 7 the active skills are attack skills.
Totaled up: 20 out of 55 skills are active skills, 16 of them being attacks.
36.3% make up active skills, 63.7% are statistic boosts.
Barbarian
-Juggernaut: 12 out of 18 skills are statistic boosts. 33.3 is active skills. 5 out of 6 of the active skills are attack skills.
-Battlemaster: 12 out of 17 skills are statistic boosts. 29.4% is active skills. 2 out of the 5 active skills are attack skills.
-Berserker: 13 out of 18 skills are statistic boosts. 27.8% is active skills. 3 out of the 5 active skills are attack skills.
Totaled up: 15 out of 53 skills are active skills, 10 of them being attacks.
28.3% make up active skills, 71.7% are statistic boosts.
Taking the total of both class' skills added together yields:
35 out of 108 skills are active skills, 26 of them being attacks.
32.4% are active skills, 67.6% are statistic boosts.
These are the numbers. Nothing has been skewed. I'll let the rest of you make your own judgements from these statistics. (pun intended)
I see your point.
However they done that for really good reasons:
1) They wnat the gameplay to be focused at fast combat. So they tryed to make you have around 6 active abilites in a build, different fromt eh recent MMORPG's that your character have about 20~40 skills, and thats make the gameplay really complicated and no-viceral.
2) Doing this they choose to make skills activable with a few points (1 in the demo, but a little more in the final verion - i believe). So to upgrade it's power you have to use passive abilities.
Just think this way:
In D2 you have the ice bolt skills. How you increase the power of this skill? Putting points into it or in one of the skills with synergies. So your option is increase it's damage.
In D3 how you increase the power of a Spell ? You just not put points into it, you will put point in different options of how upgrade it, like some to increase the damage, but some increase the critical rate, some increase more then one skill.
This system may sounds weird for D2 players but the ppl that plays wow, aoc or war thinks that the passive skills are nor but the D3's talents. Believe, you will like it more thne D2's whe you test it.
Still you got the point. JW's maid as think that they would not abuse of passive effects, wich was stupid imo. Passive effects is one pillar of rpg's costumisation -be it status point or a huge list of passive skills.
imo they do this for a reason and its a really great system, simple fun gameplay, theres no need to hot key a million things, you can have a good amount of attacking skills 1 ~ 4 + 2 on RMB, the characters themselves are going to benefit huge from this. along with gear and quests that award skill points+, players will get a wide variety of things to add into and along with skill runes you get such diversity. and yes i like the fact that players dont ADD into str/dex/vit/int, because of the skill system if a sorc went pure int and just nuked everything in sight the game would play like shit, this keeps pvp fun and challenging and also gives you the best survivability for whatever you're doing ingame.
The whole idea behind the skill system, from what I gathered at Blizzcon as they pushed it in multiple panels, is to make spending points actually effectual--in game play, in style, in look, etc. IE if you dumped points in Magic Missile, they wanted magic missile to look different from that (not implemented, just discussed). Runes also effect the spells. So in a certain light, we already have 3 or 4 different magic missile spells just from runes, different visually, different in how you use them, and we could potentially see more than that if they do decide to implement a change in how the spell works from dumping points as they discussed in the panel. Even if they didn't, 4 times 35 (from the number you gave) is 140. That's 140 different abilities between 3 classes, which means you have more active choices in your gameplay than you do passive choices. And that's just with the 4 current runes (is it 3? I don't remember)--I think we can be fairly sure they will add more.
So I wouldn't be concerned. Do you get to use all 140 or so active abilities? No. Why would you want to? The gameplay should be and is focused around the style that most appeals to you and there are plenty of choices in doing that imo.
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"Beware! Beyond lies mortal danger for the likes of you"
There is no contradiction here, did you even see the effects some of those passives have? They don't give you 1% this and 1% that, they fucking work with multiple hundreds of percent at a time! Putting 15 in one passive skill will move entire worlds apart in terms of how much it will affect certain aspects of your build.
The original statement by JW was that they didn't want weak and insignificant skills and effects as you would see in pretty much any other RPG game, any MMO out there etc. And from what we can see, their promise came true.
I should hope so dime. I do so hate raiding for weeks to increase my damage by 2%. Always preferred the "trade for a new weapon/max a new skill" and TRIPLE your damage
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zsfh-maz of UsWest, 95 BvB king
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
There is no contradiction here, did you even see the effects some of those passives have? They don't give you 1% this and 1% that, they fucking work with multiple hundreds of percent at a time! Putting 15 in one passive skill will move entire worlds apart in terms of how much it will affect certain aspects of your build.
The original statement by JW was that they didn't want weak and insignificant skills and effects as you would see in pretty much any other RPG game, any MMO out there etc. And from what we can see, their promise came true.
I think you may be confused as to what my post meant. Here's some help.
Contradict
Con`tra*dict\, v. i. To oppose in words; to gainsay; to deny, or assert the contrary of, something.
Trapper, reply properly and actually think about what he's saying.
I don't believe there is a contradiction either. I think Jay was talking about active skills, not passives. And you have to admit that the passives ARE more impressive and visually stunning. Obviously the passives don't count because they don't have any visuals.
And yeah, like what Dimebog said, the passives do improve the actives a fair bit, especially when compared to other games.
Anyway, don't take Jay's words like gospel like that. He's only human, not a god.
And mahamoti, its the runes that give them lots of varieties of attacks.
Blizzard are a bunch of gangstas that do what they want. They could make a pong mmo and you would buy it and give them more money so stop complaining and go buy more games to please blizzard lol
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"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
I see what you're getting at, you have a point there.
I think that... looking at the trees, we'll be focusing on a few set skills (and like Jay Wilson says, we'll have around 6 active skills), and that's what we'll be raising up mainly.
The passive abilities act like synergies, which I believe I heard if not in an interview, at a panel. Also, glancing at some of these passive skills, they seem like really noticeable passive abilities... such as the Barbarian passive skill that increases damage by 25% with rank 2.
They could make a pong mmo and you would buy it and give them more money so stop complaining and go buy more games to please blizzard lol
Only if it had a great UI! ~
But seriously... I'd rather have 5-6 actual attack skills that are used often to semi-often vs like 20, 75% of which would never get used anyway.
And if you look at Diablo 2, there we're A LOT of passive skills to boost weapon damage, attack rating, armor and such. (Even some pet skills we're most likely considered attack skills) - Although as its looking now, at least in the barbs case, there are a lot more passives vs attack skills.
But seriously... I'd rather have 5-6 actual attack skills that are used often to semi-often vs like 20, 75% of which would never get used anyway.
And if you look at Diablo 2, there we're A LOT of passive skills to boost weapon damage, attack rating, armor and such. (Even some pet skills we're most likely considered attack skills) - Although as its looking now, at least in the barbs case, there are a lot more passives vs attack skills.
Look at the D2 barbarian. You have a Frenzy barb or a Whrilwind Barb. In Diablo 3 you see the barbarian using multiple attacks. I can recount at least 3 attacks off the top of my head. That's 300% more attacks off the top of my head that you actually use then in Diablo 2 where you spam the same attack over and over and over again.
I guess people are wanting the second coming of Jebus with Diablo 3 or something...
This game is honestly becoming as anti-climactic as Red Alert 3. Hell i'm excited about a few things in both games but they are not the dream they once were. I was blown back by the quantum leap that Diablo 2 was in retrospect of Diablo 1. My childish ideas of what Diablo 3 would be like are a far cry from the reality. It's just a diablo 2 clone. Regardless, it will be a good game, not a Warcraft 3 good game.
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Here is a direct quote from Jay Wilson from an interview back in June. The full article can be found here.
Seeing the new skills for the wizard and barbarian classes absolutely contradicts Jay Wilson's word in this interview. The majority of all the skills are in fact "invisible statistical bonuses."
I know nothing is set in stone yet, but I would imagine it's pretty safe to assume that the skills seen at blizzcon are not going to change drastically for the most part, and those will be the skills we see implemented into the final game. Being so disappointed, I took the time to do some of my own statistics, and came up with these figures. My calculations have been based solely off of the released skill trees for the barbarian and wizard. I define attack skills as any skill that can directly damage an enemy. Skills that act as buffs, such as Battle Cry, are only counted as active skills.
Wizard
-Storm Talents: 12 out of 18 skills are statistic boosts. 33.3% is active skills. 6 out of 6 of the active skills are attack skills. (I included storm armor as an attack since it shoots bolts at attackers)
-Arcane: 12 out of 19 skills are statistic boosts. 36.8% is active skills. 5 out of 7 of the active skills are attack skills.
-Conjure: 11 out of 18 skills are statistic boosts. 38.9% is active skills. 5 out of 7 the active skills are attack skills.
Totaled up: 20 out of 55 skills are active skills, 16 of them being attacks.
36.3% make up active skills, 63.7% are statistic boosts.
Barbarian
-Juggernaut: 12 out of 18 skills are statistic boosts. 33.3 is active skills. 5 out of 6 of the active skills are attack skills.
-Battlemaster: 12 out of 17 skills are statistic boosts. 29.4% is active skills. 2 out of the 5 active skills are attack skills.
-Berserker: 13 out of 18 skills are statistic boosts. 27.8% is active skills. 3 out of the 5 active skills are attack skills.
Totaled up: 15 out of 53 skills are active skills, 10 of them being attacks.
28.3% make up active skills, 71.7% are statistic boosts.
Taking the total of both class' skills added together yields:
35 out of 108 skills are active skills, 26 of them being attacks.
32.4% are active skills, 67.6% are statistic boosts.
These are the numbers. Nothing has been skewed. I'll let the rest of you make your own judgements from these statistics. (pun intended)
Make sure to read that one post about the 100-110 skills though, it helps relieve apprehension.
Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals... except the weasel.
- Homer Simpson
Fuck you, I'm a dragon.
I see your point.
However they done that for really good reasons:
1) They wnat the gameplay to be focused at fast combat. So they tryed to make you have around 6 active abilites in a build, different fromt eh recent MMORPG's that your character have about 20~40 skills, and thats make the gameplay really complicated and no-viceral.
2) Doing this they choose to make skills activable with a few points (1 in the demo, but a little more in the final verion - i believe). So to upgrade it's power you have to use passive abilities.
Just think this way:
In D2 you have the ice bolt skills. How you increase the power of this skill? Putting points into it or in one of the skills with synergies. So your option is increase it's damage.
In D3 how you increase the power of a Spell ? You just not put points into it, you will put point in different options of how upgrade it, like some to increase the damage, but some increase the critical rate, some increase more then one skill.
This system may sounds weird for D2 players but the ppl that plays wow, aoc or war thinks that the passive skills are nor but the D3's talents. Believe, you will like it more thne D2's whe you test it.
Still you got the point. JW's mad as think that they would not abuse of passive effects, wich was stupid imo. Passive effects is one pillar of rpg's costumisation -be it status point or a huge list of passive skills.
I see your point.
However they done that for really good reasons:
1) They wnat the gameplay to be focused at fast combat. So they tryed to make you have around 6 active abilites in a build, different fromt eh recent MMORPG's that your character have about 20~40 skills, and thats make the gameplay really complicated and no-viceral.
2) Doing this they choose to make skills activable with a few points (1 in the demo, but a little more in the final verion - i believe). So to upgrade it's power you have to use passive abilities.
Just think this way:
In D2 you have the ice bolt skills. How you increase the power of this skill? Putting points into it or in one of the skills with synergies. So your option is increase it's damage.
In D3 how you increase the power of a Spell ? You just not put points into it, you will put point in different options of how upgrade it, like some to increase the damage, but some increase the critical rate, some increase more then one skill.
This system may sounds weird for D2 players but the ppl that plays wow, aoc or war thinks that the passive skills are nor but the D3's talents. Believe, you will like it more thne D2's whe you test it.
Still you got the point. JW's maid as think that they would not abuse of passive effects, wich was stupid imo. Passive effects is one pillar of rpg's costumisation -be it status point or a huge list of passive skills.
So I wouldn't be concerned. Do you get to use all 140 or so active abilities? No. Why would you want to? The gameplay should be and is focused around the style that most appeals to you and there are plenty of choices in doing that imo.
The original statement by JW was that they didn't want weak and insignificant skills and effects as you would see in pretty much any other RPG game, any MMO out there etc. And from what we can see, their promise came true.
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
Idk, still seems like an improvement...
Come on man...who are you kidding? There are only about 5 or so attacks per character.
Contradict
Con`tra*dict\, v. i. To oppose in words; to gainsay; to deny, or assert the contrary of, something.
I don't believe there is a contradiction either. I think Jay was talking about active skills, not passives. And you have to admit that the passives ARE more impressive and visually stunning. Obviously the passives don't count because they don't have any visuals.
And yeah, like what Dimebog said, the passives do improve the actives a fair bit, especially when compared to other games.
Anyway, don't take Jay's words like gospel like that. He's only human, not a god.
And mahamoti, its the runes that give them lots of varieties of attacks.
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
I think that... looking at the trees, we'll be focusing on a few set skills (and like Jay Wilson says, we'll have around 6 active skills), and that's what we'll be raising up mainly.
The passive abilities act like synergies, which I believe I heard if not in an interview, at a panel. Also, glancing at some of these passive skills, they seem like really noticeable passive abilities... such as the Barbarian passive skill that increases damage by 25% with rank 2.
Only if it had a great UI! ~
But seriously... I'd rather have 5-6 actual attack skills that are used often to semi-often vs like 20, 75% of which would never get used anyway.
And if you look at Diablo 2, there we're A LOT of passive skills to boost weapon damage, attack rating, armor and such. (Even some pet skills we're most likely considered attack skills) - Although as its looking now, at least in the barbs case, there are a lot more passives vs attack skills.
Hungry? Why Wait? Grab a Barbarian!
Look at the D2 barbarian. You have a Frenzy barb or a Whrilwind Barb. In Diablo 3 you see the barbarian using multiple attacks. I can recount at least 3 attacks off the top of my head. That's 300% more attacks off the top of my head that you actually use then in Diablo 2 where you spam the same attack over and over and over again.
I guess people are wanting the second coming of Jebus with Diablo 3 or something...