In Diablo 3 will skills have synergies or not. I found that in D2, they were a nice additional bonus but really made the characters less versatile (I mean for example Paladin, if he were a hammerdin, he would only use magic hammers plus synergies and 1 aura). This would make the game pretty split into "subclasses". This also made characters less versatile instead of using a combo of skills to get rid of the denizens of evil which seems like what they are trying to do with D3.
Would you liek to see synergies or not? That's my question to you and if yes, how do you think they will differ or be similar to D2 and how they will mix in with the new D3 and it's fast paced action.
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This has been discussed before, but here is a run down of the basic pro and con as I see it.
Pro:
1) Characters spend points in 'lower' skills, which keeps them effective early-mid-late games. Before synergies characters would save all their skill points for the good skills to maximize their characters potential at the end of the game. They would be complete garbage until about level 50.
Con:
1) Pushes characters into specialization, making for less varied attack styles and for sorceresses extremely effective against some monsters and extremely ineffective at some.
It is important for characters to have skills released to them later, those skills should be more effective. This gives people something to look forward to, and spurs them on. However, characters also need to have a reason to train those early skills. Wow's talent system kind of does this...but at the same time that system actually encourages more specialization and less build variation than diablo 2. I'm not too sure of the right solution, but I know in general I like synergies.
Well, there would be the idea to; Keep synergies but span them accross theskill tree.
This ultimately means that synergies were once again an incredibly effective yet underdeveloped feature. By spanning them I mean this:
Instead of limiting the synergies to +damage/+defense they could add various different factors into it. Such ass the necro class had at one point for his summons. A diversification of bonuses.
Ex: if we take the sorc's frozen orb. They could of enhanced the number of spikes shooting out. The monster's frozen length, the damge, the radius, the size, the kind of spikes coming out , etc...... In this kind of situation you would find yourself wanting to level up various other skills for both "the usefulness factor/ and the synergies factor"
Just an idea, what do you guys think about it, and try to get this developed even further?
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----------Brought to you by Diablofans.com Forums -------- Originally Posted by mattheo_majik
I LOVE being a SEX TON!!!
They said synergies were added in a patch to fix errors in balance and that there is no reason to bring them back. So no, I don't think they will be back.
They said synergies were added in a patch to fix errors in balance and that there is no reason to bring them back. So no, I don't think they will be back.
Then how are they going to solve the 'saving skills' issue? I hope I dont have to ride coattails to high level with all the sorceresses I make...
Then how are they going to solve the 'saving skills' issue? I hope I dont have to ride coattails to high level with all the sorceresses I make...
In default of having a synergy system, they could try to tweak the leveling of skills/spells so as to gain more for each level. This way your spells would have great potential in their final levels even if they are of first tier. So no to create unbalance in char power, they could simply restrict the spell's next level to a specific char level.....
Although said and done I still prefer synergies..haha
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----------Brought to you by Diablofans.com Forums -------- Originally Posted by mattheo_majik
I LOVE being a SEX TON!!!
Diablo III already has synergies, such as Mongrel + Locust Swarm.
In that definition I guess Amplify Damage was a synergy to Raise Skeleton. By synergies in this thread we are specifically talking about diablo 2 where one skill being trained passively enhances the damage/duration of another skill. I do like the Mongel + Locust Swarm combo, but I'm not sure how feasible it is to make combos like that for every class to make synergies (by my definition) unnecessary. Like the barbarian had no combos like that, from what I could tell.
By synergies in this thread we are specifically talking about diablo 2 where one skill being trained passively enhances the damage/duration of another skill.
I do not see any real difference except for the fact that Diablo II synergies say, officially, that they are synergies. In reality, a synergy is any spell that enhances the effect of another spell.
Quote from "Mastertim"" »
I do like the Mongel + Locust Swarm combo, but I'm not sure how feasible it is to make combos like that for every class to make synergies (by my definition) unnecessary. Like the barbarian had no combos like that, from what I could tell.
I believe it's the only feasible way, if synergies are included. Otherwise, we will result with mirror skills, as well as skills trained purely for synergy purposes. Certain barbarian synergies felt very unreal, inflexible, and forced and could have easily been avoided through other methods.
Great topic.
In the last game I hated and loved synergies.
I loved the idea of making my attacks stronger.
But I hated them because all fire sorcs will only use fireball, meteor, fire bolt.
The only reason I would not want synergies would be so that you could see a character using a whole bunch of different attacks. Like a hammerdin that also uses smite. Or a sorc that uses fireball as a main attack, but uses some ice to slow down their enemies.
I'm not saying they should get rid of synergies and go all out hybrid. It just might be a good idea to try something new for a wider variety of attacks on a character.
Great topic. In the last game I hated and loved synergies. I loved the idea of making my attacks stronger. But I hated them because all fire sorcs will only use fireball, meteor, fire bolt. The only reason I would not want synergies would be so that you could see a character using a whole bunch of different attacks. Like a hammerdin that also uses smite. Or a sorc that uses fireball as a main attack, but uses some ice to slow down their enemies.
I'm not saying they should get rid of synergies and go all out hybrid. It just might be a good idea to try something new for a wider variety of attacks on a character.
Actually you are wrong in some points. You guys are just not giving any credit to people who wer comming up with effective yet unique builds in D2 LoD. You say its only fireball/bolt. No its not. There were Blizzard Sorcs/ Firewall and Orb Sorcs, named Frozenwall sorcs. There ewre transmuting sorcs into werebear for dueling with enchant as primary attack skill. there were charged lightning sorcs and normal lightning sorcs even lightning storm sorcs. I mean apart from this what else do you want? I sorc that attacks with static and punch?
My hammerding also used holy bolt to kick undead ass. I had a thrower barb, there were frenzy barbs /whirlwind barbs...Berserker barbs. You guys are totally biased when you say there were only cooky cutter builds. Look when you have a few million people plying a game, of course your going to see some repetition, when you dont have a million skills to choose from. it doesn't mean the game didn't have a good ammount of choice. I think you guys flaming D2 aren't making much sense really. D2 had an amazing array of things to build as chars, the only and real problem behind everything was you guys. The players who were either too scared to try something new or too unoriginal to think something by yourself and chose to copy others and follow trends. Now your here on these threads complaning about lack of originality in D2 when it gave players nearly 10 years of replayable fun. Totally unthankful and I find a little disrecpectful to Blizz who busted their asses for many years to give us players free patches and updates so we could keep playing our favorite games.
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----------Brought to you by Diablofans.com Forums -------- Originally Posted by mattheo_majik
I LOVE being a SEX TON!!!
In the last game I hated and loved synergies.
I loved the idea of making my attacks stronger
This view doesn't hold water when a game includes them from the start (as opposed to a game that adds them as a fix).
When they are added from the start, the monster durability will simply factor in the added punch in your attacks. In other words you will need 40 skill points just be competitive. 40 points in nearly half a career and means less variety in competitive builds.
I think they should definitely make a return and let the players choose between specializing or not but allow all the skills to be useful at later levels.
i think synergies are great but only if you can get them all, by quests or what have you. But putting a level cap on a character so they cant even get to a high level of synergie in more than like 4, that is stupid. You should be able ot max out all synergies for a skill.
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Mattew 18:18
"I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be lossed in heaven."
I'm quite sure they will have a whole different type of skill tree than D2. Something that doesn't need synergies and still we want to spend points on lower tier skills. They get to design the thing from scratch so they can do something amazing with the trees.
Synergies in D2 gave something new to the old game and as implemented on the already flawed skill system it got even worse in my opinion. Some skills were totally left without synergies.. like bow skills, whirlwind etc. making them less viable choice for end game compared almost any sorc build or hammerdin..
Would you liek to see synergies or not? That's my question to you and if yes, how do you think they will differ or be similar to D2 and how they will mix in with the new D3 and it's fast paced action.
Pro:
1) Characters spend points in 'lower' skills, which keeps them effective early-mid-late games. Before synergies characters would save all their skill points for the good skills to maximize their characters potential at the end of the game. They would be complete garbage until about level 50.
Con:
1) Pushes characters into specialization, making for less varied attack styles and for sorceresses extremely effective against some monsters and extremely ineffective at some.
It is important for characters to have skills released to them later, those skills should be more effective. This gives people something to look forward to, and spurs them on. However, characters also need to have a reason to train those early skills. Wow's talent system kind of does this...but at the same time that system actually encourages more specialization and less build variation than diablo 2. I'm not too sure of the right solution, but I know in general I like synergies.
This ultimately means that synergies were once again an incredibly effective yet underdeveloped feature. By spanning them I mean this:
Instead of limiting the synergies to +damage/+defense they could add various different factors into it. Such ass the necro class had at one point for his summons. A diversification of bonuses.
Ex: if we take the sorc's frozen orb. They could of enhanced the number of spikes shooting out. The monster's frozen length, the damge, the radius, the size, the kind of spikes coming out , etc...... In this kind of situation you would find yourself wanting to level up various other skills for both "the usefulness factor/ and the synergies factor"
Just an idea, what do you guys think about it, and try to get this developed even further?
--------~~Mattheo's Quote of the day~~---------
----------Brought to you by Diablofans.com Forums --------
Originally Posted by mattheo_majik
I LOVE being a SEX TON!!!
Then how are they going to solve the 'saving skills' issue? I hope I dont have to ride coattails to high level with all the sorceresses I make...
In default of having a synergy system, they could try to tweak the leveling of skills/spells so as to gain more for each level. This way your spells would have great potential in their final levels even if they are of first tier. So no to create unbalance in char power, they could simply restrict the spell's next level to a specific char level.....
Although said and done I still prefer synergies..haha
--------~~Mattheo's Quote of the day~~---------
----------Brought to you by Diablofans.com Forums --------
Originally Posted by mattheo_majik
I LOVE being a SEX TON!!!
In that definition I guess Amplify Damage was a synergy to Raise Skeleton. By synergies in this thread we are specifically talking about diablo 2 where one skill being trained passively enhances the damage/duration of another skill. I do like the Mongel + Locust Swarm combo, but I'm not sure how feasible it is to make combos like that for every class to make synergies (by my definition) unnecessary. Like the barbarian had no combos like that, from what I could tell.
I believe it's the only feasible way, if synergies are included. Otherwise, we will result with mirror skills, as well as skills trained purely for synergy purposes. Certain barbarian synergies felt very unreal, inflexible, and forced and could have easily been avoided through other methods.
In the last game I hated and loved synergies.
I loved the idea of making my attacks stronger.
But I hated them because all fire sorcs will only use fireball, meteor, fire bolt.
The only reason I would not want synergies would be so that you could see a character using a whole bunch of different attacks. Like a hammerdin that also uses smite. Or a sorc that uses fireball as a main attack, but uses some ice to slow down their enemies.
I'm not saying they should get rid of synergies and go all out hybrid. It just might be a good idea to try something new for a wider variety of attacks on a character.
Actually you are wrong in some points. You guys are just not giving any credit to people who wer comming up with effective yet unique builds in D2 LoD. You say its only fireball/bolt. No its not. There were Blizzard Sorcs/ Firewall and Orb Sorcs, named Frozenwall sorcs. There ewre transmuting sorcs into werebear for dueling with enchant as primary attack skill. there were charged lightning sorcs and normal lightning sorcs even lightning storm sorcs. I mean apart from this what else do you want? I sorc that attacks with static and punch?
My hammerding also used holy bolt to kick undead ass. I had a thrower barb, there were frenzy barbs /whirlwind barbs...Berserker barbs. You guys are totally biased when you say there were only cooky cutter builds. Look when you have a few million people plying a game, of course your going to see some repetition, when you dont have a million skills to choose from. it doesn't mean the game didn't have a good ammount of choice. I think you guys flaming D2 aren't making much sense really. D2 had an amazing array of things to build as chars, the only and real problem behind everything was you guys. The players who were either too scared to try something new or too unoriginal to think something by yourself and chose to copy others and follow trends. Now your here on these threads complaning about lack of originality in D2 when it gave players nearly 10 years of replayable fun. Totally unthankful and I find a little disrecpectful to Blizz who busted their asses for many years to give us players free patches and updates so we could keep playing our favorite games.
--------~~Mattheo's Quote of the day~~---------
----------Brought to you by Diablofans.com Forums --------
Originally Posted by mattheo_majik
I LOVE being a SEX TON!!!
This view doesn't hold water when a game includes them from the start (as opposed to a game that adds them as a fix).
When they are added from the start, the monster durability will simply factor in the added punch in your attacks. In other words you will need 40 skill points just be competitive. 40 points in nearly half a career and means less variety in competitive builds.
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Synergies in D2 gave something new to the old game and as implemented on the already flawed skill system it got even worse in my opinion. Some skills were totally left without synergies.. like bow skills, whirlwind etc. making them less viable choice for end game compared almost any sorc build or hammerdin..
I just want a totally new skill system..
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