1.20 attacks per second means twelve attacks per ten seconds, not that you are waiting 0.2 of every second after the attack...... What are you talking about? Besides, who says that attacks need to strictly occur every one or two seconds. Jeez, I'll never understand some people. Is there ANYTHING in this game you can't complain about?
i wasnt saying your waiting for the .20 seconds. im saying i only need to know how much damage per attack im doing. i dont need to know how much DPS im doing. yes i understand it says it under "damage xx-xx".
all i was saying was i prefer the old system of damage and attack speed, instead of the PS based system
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
(this build was before D3 launched... looking back on it now - i had no idea what i was doing)
1.20 attacks per second means twelve attacks per ten seconds, not that you are waiting 0.2 of every second after the attack...... What are you talking about? Besides, who says that attacks need to strictly occur every one or two seconds. Jeez, I'll never understand some people. Is there ANYTHING in this game you can't complain about?
actually the numbers like attack speed: 1.20 is the time between attacks. so where 1.20 its the seconds from one attack to the next which makes the item very fast, while the other, bigger weapons with say 3.50 attack speed are slow and usually with very high maximum damage.
at least thats how things are in WoW, thats what made me think the dps calculator isnt workinig flawlessly in the demonstration video. Blizzard mentioned that the demo was full of bugs, even the bunny didnt die
actually the numbers like attack speed: 1.20 is the time between attacks. so where 1.20 its the seconds from one attack to the next which makes the item very fast, while the other, bigger weapons with say 3.50 attack speed are slow and usually with very high maximum damage.
at least thats how things are in WoW, thats what made me think the dps calculator isnt workinig flawlessly in the demonstration video. Blizzard mentioned that the demo was full of bugs, even the bunny didnt die
Actually no. Attack per sec. ATTACKS PER SECOND, not Delay per attack.
instead of aps they should just have attack speed, but not like it was in d2. In d2 if you had a very fast 2 handed sword and a very fast dagger, the dagger was usually faster. what they need to show for attack speed is the acutal time it takes to execute an attack, ie attack speed .8s would mean you swing that weapon once every .8s, or 10 swings every 8s. the veryslow/slow/normal/fast/veryfast system just didnt say enough.
Well DPS statistic is just dumb anyway, as for years n years, ever since "Runequest" and "Rolemaster" challenged "D & D" the whole gaming community has prefered armour to reduce the severity of attacks rather than to make you elusive like Floyd Mayweather Jr.
D3 had better not follow D2 in this regard, as "Elusive AC" is a lousy way to go.
If Armour subtracts from damage per hit, like it should, then the DPS stat is largely useless.
Armour subtracting points (not a set percentage) of damage from each physical hit is better.
Having armour reduce the chance of getting hit is NOT logical for combat resolution. If you are dressed in steel chainmail and a goblin hits you with a electric enchanted mace, and the game mechanics believe metals are conductive then your "AC" would in this case tend to protect you from the shock damage by making the mace miss you and miraculously hit thin air when in fact what should be happening is the goblin should be landing flush on your chest and shocking you repeatedly.
There is a bunch of weapon effects like knockback or arrows that might explode into a cloud of gas/flame that would, again miraculously miss your character heavily laden in armour when in fact what should happen is a "connect'.
Heavy armour should REDUCE your "evasion" or effective dex making you actually take more hits. Only the strongest of characters can simply hop around in heavy platemail like it wasn't there.
Ixia, the solution for armour locations "all adding up" and somehow combining, like a stack of newspaper to block one hit is simple.
Physical hits land on one body location only.
Only the armour on that location applies against the damage.
Snakes and other "low down" critters have a higher probability of landing on your feet and less chance to land on your head.
Giants and other "high up" critters tend to land higher and less on your boots.
Spears, arrows and attacks that tend to "go straight in a line" have a higher probability to land on your torso than on your head/hands/boots.
Melee attacks that don't "go in a straight line" like swords, clubs use the "standard" table.
Shields should also have a maximum amount of damage reduction, modified by strength. Even a giant sized adamantium tower shield can be penetrated with a big enough crossbow. It was quite dumb in diablo 2 that a 30 strength sorceress with a buckler could totally "block" a giant sized opponent swinging, well, anything, even a treeclub.
DPS is an unworthy obsession
Look this is not a mmorpg. Diablo 1 didn't need it, neither did 2, neither does 3. If armour works as evasion, and the DPS is clearly displayed on the weapon stat page, it will be too easy for players to just choose the "best weapon for all occassions". This is bad. Decisions should be ambigious and weapons, which are just tools should be situational. No single weapons should be best in all acts against all foes. If damage subtraction is chosen of evasive armour, then certain weapons (the big two handers) will effectively have the best DPS against high armour opponents, while they may be outperformed by faster, lighter weapons against unarmoured targets.
Make sense?
A game system that recognizes armour as subtracting damage from each hit rather than making you elusive also opens up more interesting weapons rules and affixes.
For example, a warhammer (which looks similar to a pick, for those of you who don't know) is great for punching thru armour but doesn't really do any more damage against a naked target could be coded, game mechanic wise in 2 ways.
Firstly, you could just code the warhammer as being a high damage weapon, and therefore say it tends to hurt armoured targets.
Secondly, you could code a new value "armour penetration", which is value all weapons have, but is mostly zero, and only a few weapons, like warhammers, picks and crossbow bolts have a positive value. This "armour penetration", is subtracted from the armour value of a target but if it results in a negative, the armour of the target is taken as zero.
So, the warhammer tends to hurt armoured foes but doesn't do anything extra against non armoured foes.
Don't you think this sort of mechanic is much better for the game?
A game system that uses armour rules that subtract damage from each hit rather that making you elusive also opens up more interesting special attacks for the players and monster to use in situations.
For example, a barbarian might have a special attack called "Whack", that is slow to execute but does extra damage (or just have an "armour penetration" value). Against the really heavily armoured "End Bosses", this is a useful ability, but against unarmoured targets, the player would tend to kill more quickly using other attack forms like, "frenzy", which might be exactly the opposite (hits twice, but only 66% of standard damage each time).
Simple "elusive armour class" mechanics are just less interesting, and it is more fun to hear a "ting" or a dull thud when the monsters connect but fail to draw blood.
If Diablo 3 is going to keep item durability, they should make it so only big, penetrating hits do any wear n tear on armour.
I wish my Barb's Concentrate skill showed me the DPS value. It would have helped Assassins and Amazons as well. Some spells in D2 were literally based around DPS, like Meteor (it even says 'Fire Damage Per Second'), and I see no one complaining. It's an essential part of a good action RPG game.
If you don't like it - ignore it. As for the armour mechanic, that discussion is completely out of place. DPS value should show you how powerful a weapon is over time with maximum efficiency. Your chance to hit and your target's armour is something entirely different and has nothing to do with usefulness of the DPS reading. Monsters also have elemental resistances, that doesn't mean your spells shouldn't tell you how much damage they do just because that doesn't apply in pretty much most cases.
And for the record, D2 armour did both - mitigate the damage and make you parry based on the level difference (evade is something entirely different, you're misusing the word).
Well I am against crass displays of "DPS" on weapons (not spells like firewall).
Such crude number displays unnecessarily destroy game mystique, and encourage the same old weapons to be chosen by the masses.
However, many times, in games, I have wondered, "my character would be able to test this a bit somehow and find out which weapon does more damage in a round, on average". You know, this occurred in games which refuse to say how much damage you just did, that always annoyed me, I want to know.
So, somewhere in the game, is a guardhouse, or a wizards tower.
Inside the basement is a "dummy", could be a statue or a man, or a figure built like a scarecrow.
This enchanted "dummy" you can hit to your hearts content. It won't break.
Each time it gets hit, he (you could justify by saying some evil spirit of a temple defiler got imprisoned inside by a sorcerer), he says how much damage he took.
These tiny damage numbers appear above his head and drift upwards.
You can put armour on him to see how armour affects damage.
Perhaps, if the blizzard team is more daring, this statuette is female in form, and it's in an old castle, which was once dwelt by a lord/mage and his overly promiscous wife who is now soulbound to that statue. She enjoys a beating and asks for more!:O
When you walk out the room, she says "come back soon"
Or perhaps rather than his wife, it is a succubus demoness that is imprisoned within, who once stole something from him. Hey this Idea is really going places!
Imaginative answers are better than crass displays of "DPS".
With DPS they can still force you to change weapons. What if your usual weapon is a gigantic hammer that does massive damage, but only swings every 5 seconds and you have to face a whole bunch of tiny scarabs or maybe a pack of zombies, then you would have to switch to a faster weapon with less damage and more hits per second.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Looks like our well meaning heros have woken up something nasttyy
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
i wasnt saying your waiting for the .20 seconds. im saying i only need to know how much damage per attack im doing. i dont need to know how much DPS im doing. yes i understand it says it under "damage xx-xx".
all i was saying was i prefer the old system of damage and attack speed, instead of the PS based system
actually the numbers like attack speed: 1.20 is the time between attacks. so where 1.20 its the seconds from one attack to the next which makes the item very fast, while the other, bigger weapons with say 3.50 attack speed are slow and usually with very high maximum damage.
at least thats how things are in WoW, thats what made me think the dps calculator isnt workinig flawlessly in the demonstration video. Blizzard mentioned that the demo was full of bugs, even the bunny didnt die
Actually no. Attack per sec. ATTACKS PER SECOND, not Delay per attack.
as i mentioned, what i said is how it works in WoW. i assumed it was just like that in Diablo 3 too, that way it would also make sense.
D3 had better not follow D2 in this regard, as "Elusive AC" is a lousy way to go.
If Armour subtracts from damage per hit, like it should, then the DPS stat is largely useless.
DOWN WITH DPS! :mad:
Armour subtracting points (not a set percentage) of damage from each physical hit is better.
Having armour reduce the chance of getting hit is NOT logical for combat resolution. If you are dressed in steel chainmail and a goblin hits you with a electric enchanted mace, and the game mechanics believe metals are conductive then your "AC" would in this case tend to protect you from the shock damage by making the mace miss you and miraculously hit thin air when in fact what should be happening is the goblin should be landing flush on your chest and shocking you repeatedly.
There is a bunch of weapon effects like knockback or arrows that might explode into a cloud of gas/flame that would, again miraculously miss your character heavily laden in armour when in fact what should happen is a "connect'.
Heavy armour should REDUCE your "evasion" or effective dex making you actually take more hits. Only the strongest of characters can simply hop around in heavy platemail like it wasn't there.
Ixia, the solution for armour locations "all adding up" and somehow combining, like a stack of newspaper to block one hit is simple.
Physical hits land on one body location only.
Only the armour on that location applies against the damage.
Snakes and other "low down" critters have a higher probability of landing on your feet and less chance to land on your head.
Giants and other "high up" critters tend to land higher and less on your boots.
Spears, arrows and attacks that tend to "go straight in a line" have a higher probability to land on your torso than on your head/hands/boots.
Melee attacks that don't "go in a straight line" like swords, clubs use the "standard" table.
Shields should also have a maximum amount of damage reduction, modified by strength. Even a giant sized adamantium tower shield can be penetrated with a big enough crossbow. It was quite dumb in diablo 2 that a 30 strength sorceress with a buckler could totally "block" a giant sized opponent swinging, well, anything, even a treeclub.
DPS is an unworthy obsession
Look this is not a mmorpg. Diablo 1 didn't need it, neither did 2, neither does 3. If armour works as evasion, and the DPS is clearly displayed on the weapon stat page, it will be too easy for players to just choose the "best weapon for all occassions". This is bad. Decisions should be ambigious and weapons, which are just tools should be situational. No single weapons should be best in all acts against all foes. If damage subtraction is chosen of evasive armour, then certain weapons (the big two handers) will effectively have the best DPS against high armour opponents, while they may be outperformed by faster, lighter weapons against unarmoured targets.
Make sense?
For example, a warhammer (which looks similar to a pick, for those of you who don't know) is great for punching thru armour but doesn't really do any more damage against a naked target could be coded, game mechanic wise in 2 ways.
Firstly, you could just code the warhammer as being a high damage weapon, and therefore say it tends to hurt armoured targets.
Secondly, you could code a new value "armour penetration", which is value all weapons have, but is mostly zero, and only a few weapons, like warhammers, picks and crossbow bolts have a positive value. This "armour penetration", is subtracted from the armour value of a target but if it results in a negative, the armour of the target is taken as zero.
So, the warhammer tends to hurt armoured foes but doesn't do anything extra against non armoured foes.
Don't you think this sort of mechanic is much better for the game?
A game system that uses armour rules that subtract damage from each hit rather that making you elusive also opens up more interesting special attacks for the players and monster to use in situations.
For example, a barbarian might have a special attack called "Whack", that is slow to execute but does extra damage (or just have an "armour penetration" value). Against the really heavily armoured "End Bosses", this is a useful ability, but against unarmoured targets, the player would tend to kill more quickly using other attack forms like, "frenzy", which might be exactly the opposite (hits twice, but only 66% of standard damage each time).
Simple "elusive armour class" mechanics are just less interesting, and it is more fun to hear a "ting" or a dull thud when the monsters connect but fail to draw blood.
If Diablo 3 is going to keep item durability, they should make it so only big, penetrating hits do any wear n tear on armour.
Do you now get why this system is better?
If you don't like it - ignore it. As for the armour mechanic, that discussion is completely out of place. DPS value should show you how powerful a weapon is over time with maximum efficiency. Your chance to hit and your target's armour is something entirely different and has nothing to do with usefulness of the DPS reading. Monsters also have elemental resistances, that doesn't mean your spells shouldn't tell you how much damage they do just because that doesn't apply in pretty much most cases.
And for the record, D2 armour did both - mitigate the damage and make you parry based on the level difference (evade is something entirely different, you're misusing the word).
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Well I am against crass displays of "DPS" on weapons (not spells like firewall).
Such crude number displays unnecessarily destroy game mystique, and encourage the same old weapons to be chosen by the masses.
However, many times, in games, I have wondered, "my character would be able to test this a bit somehow and find out which weapon does more damage in a round, on average". You know, this occurred in games which refuse to say how much damage you just did, that always annoyed me, I want to know.
So, somewhere in the game, is a guardhouse, or a wizards tower.
Inside the basement is a "dummy", could be a statue or a man, or a figure built like a scarecrow.
This enchanted "dummy" you can hit to your hearts content. It won't break.
Each time it gets hit, he (you could justify by saying some evil spirit of a temple defiler got imprisoned inside by a sorcerer), he says how much damage he took.
These tiny damage numbers appear above his head and drift upwards.
You can put armour on him to see how armour affects damage.
Perhaps, if the blizzard team is more daring, this statuette is female in form, and it's in an old castle, which was once dwelt by a lord/mage and his overly promiscous wife who is now soulbound to that statue. She enjoys a beating and asks for more!:O
When you walk out the room, she says "come back soon"
Or perhaps rather than his wife, it is a succubus demoness that is imprisoned within, who once stole something from him. Hey this Idea is really going places!
Imaginative answers are better than crass displays of "DPS".
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]