Nope. He hits the hotkey, the arrow changes to a sword, several moments later he clicks mouse to execute. End of story.
Watch the video again... there are many instances of him hovering the mouse over mobs and using different skills without the mouse cursor turning into a sword, and it appears as though the skills he is using in many instances are not bound to a mouse button but instead a hot-key on his keyboard and are being cast without a mouse click.
Watch the video again... there are many instances of him hovering the mouse over mobs and using different skills without the mouse cursor turning into a sword, and it appears as though the skills he is using in many instances are not bound to a mouse button but instead a hot-key on his keyboard and are being cast without a mouse click.
No, that's just for the two skills mapped for the right mouse button. He cycles through them with the Tab key. The skills that are mapped on the hotbar turn the cursor to a sword (but only when the cursor is hovering over monsters). I watched the video countless times and I don't have 1% of a doubt that this is exactly how it works.
No, that's just for the two skills mapped for the right mouse button. He cycles through them with the Tab key. The skills that are mapped on the hotbar turn the cursor to a sword (but only when the cursor is hovering over monsters). I watched the video countless times and I don't have 1% of a doubt that this is exactly how it works.
Yeah, you have the skills mapped to the right mouse button like in D2 and you can change them with the tab key, scroll wheel etc... you also can have a skill that is mapped to your left mouse button like in D2, however from the video it also looks like you can just use the key-binds to use skills straight from the hot bar instantly without clicking the left mouse. Of course while using a skill that attacks an enemy the cursor will change to a sword if the cursor is over an enemy but that does not mean he's pressing the hotbar button which then selects that skill, then targets the enemy, and then left clicks on that enemy to cast.
It would make much more sense to be able to just use, in this case, the 1-4 keys on the keyboard to use the skills instantly based on where your mouse cursor is. If that skill attacks an enemy then the of course pressing that key while the cursor is over an enemy will turn it into a sword.
Blizzard has said that you can play the game only with the mouse and I believe that's true, however I'm sure that they recognize the potential of using skills directly from key-binds.
I understand exactly how you think the system works based on D2, but I think it makes much more sense to use the key-binds to instantly use skills instead of just assigning the spell to your left mouse button and then having to click on the enemy you have selected to use that skill.
My big reasoning behind this is simple. In D2 the hotbar allowed you to chug potions using just the keys. I believe that in D3 this hotbar will retain this functionality and allow you to use skills by simply pressing the button.
I don't care what makes sense to you - that's not how it works in the video. You can see that the sword cursor is there for a couple of seconds when he is making his mind in which direction to cast Leap. The sword cursor always appears after using a skill from the hotbar, lasts for variable amounts of time, and dissapears when the spell is casted. Button > Aim > Click. Same as how casting spell scrolls worked in D1. The idea you are suggesting is the system that is used in Nox, D3 uses the system that was used in D1. End of story.
It is an interesting theory, but I looked at the first few minutes of the trailer again and the first leap he performs to the north of the mob does not change the cursor. Also I can see the cursor changing to the sword while he is using one of the mouse skills (Cleave). It could be that certain skills do cause the change but Leap didn't do it and that is definitely a skill that would require you to target a location.
I don't understand why you keep referencing Diablo 1 as the reason it is this way. They aren't choosing to do things based off legacy games just because they did it. They are making decisions based on what is best for Gameplay.
In my opinion click+point+click skill usage was horrible in Titan Quest and I would loath its inclusion here.
Also you got owned earlier regarding the random outdoors. You can't go off old interviews as things are always changing, the one given was pretty recent. And random events outdoors does not make it random environments. They have already stated the complications that arise from trying to make the actual environment pieces lock together and look good.
It is an interesting theory, but I looked at the first few minutes of the trailer again and the first leap he performs to the north of the mob does not change the cursor. Also I can see the cursor changing to the sword while he is using one of the mouse skills (Cleave). It could be that certain skills do cause the change but Leap didn't do it and that is definitely a skill that would require you to target a location.
The sword appears while a spell is ready but not unless you're mousing over a monster. Watch more closely. The sword keeps appearing and disappearing as he moves his mouse unto and away of each monster, and sometimes it appears for just a moment while he is already targeting a monster.
Quote from "Hollownuke" »
Also you got owned earlier regarding the random outdoors. You can't go off old interviews as things are always changing, the one given was pretty recent. And random events outdoors does not make it random environments. They have already stated the complications that arise from trying to make the actual environment pieces lock together and look good.
I got owned? Oh please. Besides, everything I said about the outside randomization still holds true, hearing that Jay mentions cutting out parts of the terrain to replace them with something else again in the latest interview that was posted just two days ago. I still believe that this type of randomization will help replayability whereas D2 outside areas only annoyed the player and didn't help at all. The problem is that you blindly believed the title saying 'NO MORE RANDOMIZATION' without examining the actual interview and judge what was said for yourself.
The problem is that you blindly believed the title saying 'NO MORE RANDOMIZATION' without examining the actual interview and judge what was said for yourself.
I went back and reread your comments in this thread. And we are in a agreement for the most part. I hastily assumed that you meant the actual landscape would be random. According to two separate interviews they will randomize certain content on the landscape but the Layout will be pretty much the same each time. So we will know where temple entrance A is every time.
I personally like the way it sounds.
I also went back and watched the gameplay trailer and I have a pic to debunk your "proof" aka the cursor changing to the sword when using the hot bar skills to let you target an enemy.
This pic is of the first time he Whirlwinds the Shield Skeletons. Notice that right before he clicks the RIGHT MOUSE BUTTON to perform the skill the cursor is a sword(because he just had the mouse over the enemy skeleton)
What does that mean? Not much. Besides putting your argument to rest. I believe that the cursor will change to a sword whenever you mouse over a monster(as it did several times before the barb made a normal attack or right mouse skill). And the reason it does not seem to do it all the time is that they haven't polished up the UI yet. That and the fact that the very first leap he performs does not change the cursor it pretty much eliminates the extra click style as a possibility.
BTW if it were to work as you think it does the cursor would need to change to a sword no matter where you point on the screen to let the player know they just hit one of the skill buttons. If not you wouldn't know for sure if you pressed it.
I'd be glad to hear YOUR view on the whole pointer changing and all. So far, I'm only still 100% sure in what I saw. The first leap didn't change the cursor because he didn't target a monster. Instead of watching the first 20 seconds of the video, try the last few minutes of the dungeon maybe you will see for yourself.
I'd be glad to hear YOUR view on the whole pointer changing and all. So far, I'm only still 100% sure in what I saw. The first leap didn't change the cursor because he didn't target a monster. Instead of watching the first 20 seconds of the video, try the last few minutes of the dungeon maybe you will see for yourself.
Ok, I assumed you were more intelligent considering you previous posts but I can see you don't read. I did watch the entire gameplay trailer again, notice the screenshot that is half way through the first dungeon.
I can admit when I am wrong and would hope you would at least have a better response than that. I am done with this thread unless you can respond to these two arguments:
1. Rule number one regarding User Interfaces, make it user friendly. If the icon doesn't change when you press a hotbar skill how does the user know the game recognized you pressing it. If you theory is correct then every time you pressed a hotbar skill the cursor would need to change to let the player know it is in targeting mode not just when it is on a monster.
2. How do you explain the icon changing to the sword when the barb is using a mouse based skill such as in the pic in my previous post?
If you can adequately explain that then we will be getting somewhere with this thread.
4. Absolute focus on dungeons, since Diablo was a dungeon crawler after all, and D2 pooped on that by putting in tons of irrelevant outdoor areas which were tedious, unimaginative and lacked any vibrancy seen in the previous game, but above all, lacked any reason to exist since there was nothing relevant to do in them. D3 will make modular outdoor encounters something to look forward to in every new game you join. Instead of moving this bush there and a rock here, outdoor randomization takes on a whole new level, by shuffling parts of areas to create interesting environmental variations and obstacles which actually affect your gameplay experience, unlike the mere order of rocks and bushes.
Why don't you give examples of how to make outdoor areas more dynamics than.
Why don't you give examples of how to make outdoor areas more dynamics than.
Multiple paths to take to reach key areas, all of which have varying degrees of difficulty and are built with certain classes in mind or with different challenges - harder paths give better items and XP while easier paths get you through the game quickly. Random events and large open battlefields that are not scripted I.E. randomly generated areas that are in-betweens for the structured areas...
Randomness mainly. Don't make the game 100% structured and linear like TQ was and don't make everything a terrible random mess like Hellgate: London. A mix is best.
Creat a huge base of random quests. The outside world will change a little based at those random events.
Ex:
You get a quest that you need kill a boss inside a graveyard cathacombs. If you haven't the quest, you will not be able to enter the restricted cathacomb, but if you got the quest you got a key that let you get inside the extra dungeon.
The dungeon itself would be random, but with some critical parts pre inscripted. I walso would like puzzles. It would fix very nicely in the game.
Why don't you give examples of how to make outdoor areas more dynamics than.
Already did, like ten times. You can also learn that from hearing interviews for yourself. Instead of randomizing decoration, D3 is randomizing content, plain and short.
Quote from "Hollownuke" »
1. Rule number one regarding User Interfaces, make it user friendly. If the icon doesn't change when you press a hotbar skill how does the user know the game recognized you pressing it. If you theory is correct then every time you pressed a hotbar skill the cursor would need to change to let the player know it is in targeting mode not just when it is on a monster.
Actually it's more user friendly to let you know if you are going to leap on a monster or next to him. After all, can you really be in doubt that you hit a hotkey? One doesn't just hit his hotkeys by accident without knowing it.
Quote from "Hollownuke" »
2. How do you explain the icon changing to the sword when the barb is using a mouse based skill such as in the pic in my previous post?
I don't even see that he is using a mouse skill in from your screenshot, but if he has already executed WW, why wouldn't he be able to hit another hotkey already? Perhaps while he is holding his mouse button to continuously cast a spell, it is displayed as a sword. It might be something completely else entirely, but I still didn't hear you come up with an even remotely reasonable explanation for the entire phenomena and I am still waiting.
I will ask on B.Net forums shortly and ask for a clarification to end this discussion once and for all.
Actually it's more user friendly to let you know if you are going to leap on a monster or next to him. After all, can you really be in doubt that you hit a hotkey? One doesn't just hit his hotkeys by accident without knowing it.
Come on, I know you want to be right and all but that doesn't even make sense. What I am talking about is a visual cue on screen to show that you have selected from the hotbar. Your argument about not knowing where you will land is stupid because you will land where you are pointing the mouse. You would know if your mouse was on a monster or not.
Quote from "Dimebog" »
I don't even see that he is using a mouse skill in from your screenshot, but if he has already executed WW, why wouldn't he be able to hit another hotkey already? Perhaps while he is holding his mouse button to continuously cast a spell, it is displayed as a sword. It might be something completely else entirely, but I still didn't hear you come up with an even remotely reasonable explanation for the entire phenomena and I am still waiting.
Now who hasn't watched the video? lol, This is the point right when he is using whirlwind for the first time against the skeleton but it is one of many times this happens BEFORE/DURING/AFTER he uses a mouse button skill. (The whirlwind is mapped to the right mouse button at this point.). The more likely explaination is that cursor changes to the sword whenever you mouse over a creature that you can fight. The reason it doesn't do it consistently is because the User Interface hasn't been polished yet.
Quote from "Dimebog" »
I will ask on B.Net forums shortly and ask for a clarification to end this discussion once and for all.
I think that would be the only way to put this to rest (Getting a blue post) other than waiting till BlizzCon. Its fun to argue about things but we both know we won't change our minds unless there is irrefutable proof.
I think that would be the only way to put this to rest (Getting a blue post) other than waiting till BlizzCon. Its fun to argue about things but we both know we won't change our minds unless there is irrefutable proof.
Agreed. But I'll ask anyway. I just need to take time to formulate my question so that it doesn't seem retarded and not worth responding to.
I'm still sticking with the idea that the hotbar buttons can use skills immediately without the use of a mouse to do so. I have a feeling we'll find out soon enough.
On another note though there are a few things about the cursor I've been thinking about:
The cursor changes to a sword when over an enemy (maybe as well as a destructible environment item?) can someone check?
the cursor turns back to an arrow when not over an enemy (or destructible object)
the cursor turns to a sword when using a modifier key such as shift no matter where it is on the screen
the cursor, while a skill is being cast and during it's duration turns into a sword and stays that way until the duration of that skill has ended, or maybe this only happens during a skill like whirlwind where you are controling your character while in twirling death mode.
The cursor changes to a sword when over an enemy (maybe as well as a destructible environment item?) can someone check?
the cursor turns back to an arrow when not over an enemy (or destructible object)
No and no.
Quote from "Mr.Yoshida" »
the cursor turns to a sword when using a modifier key such as shift no matter where it is on the screen
That makes sense. Good thinking. Except that I see no reason why a modifier key would be used for anything that happened in that trailer.
Quote from "Mr.Yoshida" »
the cursor, while a skill is being cast and during it's duration turns into a sword and stays that way until the duration of that skill has ended, or maybe this only happens during a skill like whirlwind where you are controling your character while in twirling death mode.
Nope not that either. Watch the first mini-boss fight closely. How the arrow is locked on the boss while he stands still, and then suddenly changes to a sword a moment before the attack.
Hello everyone, this is my first post from what I hope will be a bigger number
I have to say that Dimebog is 99.9% right, at least regarding the trailer video. The skills are activated and then used by a mouseclick at a certain destination. I recommend watching the trailer in very slow-mo(VLC player is great btw ) At the begining, and esp. and the thousand pounder fight, everytime a skill is used, the cursor turns into a sword REGARDLESS of what is underneath it( that is easily visible at the TP fight )
I didn't see the change for the shouts(which seems logical)
As for the system itself, it will make the game harder to control and I think that will be esp. for long range fighters like someone with a bow or something. However, we should all trust Blizzard that if they decide to implement this, it will be balanced!
And for my last comment, all this is based on a trailer released maybe a year(or more)? before the game itself, anything can change
*** Any skill or ability should never be more than 1 press away ***
Players wouldn't tolerate potion usage that were 2 keypresses away, and yet, at times a sorceress will need 2 keypresses to teleport away.
Back in Diablo 2, a skill was one keypress away if you mapped it to the left mouseclick, or if it happened to be the most recent skill you have used. Otherwise, it was two keypresses away.
My vote is, regardless of what that youtube video shows, Diablo 3 should make it so skills are never more than a click or keypress away.
Dimebog, your liking to a two keypress sequence would be understandable if Diablo three were like Everquest, where a spell usually takes a few seconds to complete casting. However Diablo is quite fast and I just can't see why you think most people will tolerate a two press situation to teleport, firebolt or whatever.
Don't just think about yourself here, think "most players would prefer....":confused:
I hope Blizzard remember to make the hotbar vanish-able as when monsters appear southward, in the frenzy of battle, sometimes you click on an icon by mistake.
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Watch the video again... there are many instances of him hovering the mouse over mobs and using different skills without the mouse cursor turning into a sword, and it appears as though the skills he is using in many instances are not bound to a mouse button but instead a hot-key on his keyboard and are being cast without a mouse click.
Yeah, you have the skills mapped to the right mouse button like in D2 and you can change them with the tab key, scroll wheel etc... you also can have a skill that is mapped to your left mouse button like in D2, however from the video it also looks like you can just use the key-binds to use skills straight from the hot bar instantly without clicking the left mouse. Of course while using a skill that attacks an enemy the cursor will change to a sword if the cursor is over an enemy but that does not mean he's pressing the hotbar button which then selects that skill, then targets the enemy, and then left clicks on that enemy to cast.
It would make much more sense to be able to just use, in this case, the 1-4 keys on the keyboard to use the skills instantly based on where your mouse cursor is. If that skill attacks an enemy then the of course pressing that key while the cursor is over an enemy will turn it into a sword.
Blizzard has said that you can play the game only with the mouse and I believe that's true, however I'm sure that they recognize the potential of using skills directly from key-binds.
I understand exactly how you think the system works based on D2, but I think it makes much more sense to use the key-binds to instantly use skills instead of just assigning the spell to your left mouse button and then having to click on the enemy you have selected to use that skill.
My big reasoning behind this is simple. In D2 the hotbar allowed you to chug potions using just the keys. I believe that in D3 this hotbar will retain this functionality and allow you to use skills by simply pressing the button.
I hope not once PvP>All.
Dimebog, calm down bro ^^ We kno you're right.
I don't understand why you keep referencing Diablo 1 as the reason it is this way. They aren't choosing to do things based off legacy games just because they did it. They are making decisions based on what is best for Gameplay.
In my opinion click+point+click skill usage was horrible in Titan Quest and I would loath its inclusion here.
Also you got owned earlier regarding the random outdoors. You can't go off old interviews as things are always changing, the one given was pretty recent. And random events outdoors does not make it random environments. They have already stated the complications that arise from trying to make the actual environment pieces lock together and look good.
I got owned? Oh please. Besides, everything I said about the outside randomization still holds true, hearing that Jay mentions cutting out parts of the terrain to replace them with something else again in the latest interview that was posted just two days ago. I still believe that this type of randomization will help replayability whereas D2 outside areas only annoyed the player and didn't help at all. The problem is that you blindly believed the title saying 'NO MORE RANDOMIZATION' without examining the actual interview and judge what was said for yourself.
I went back and reread your comments in this thread. And we are in a agreement for the most part. I hastily assumed that you meant the actual landscape would be random. According to two separate interviews they will randomize certain content on the landscape but the Layout will be pretty much the same each time. So we will know where temple entrance A is every time.
I personally like the way it sounds.
I also went back and watched the gameplay trailer and I have a pic to debunk your "proof" aka the cursor changing to the sword when using the hot bar skills to let you target an enemy.
This pic is of the first time he Whirlwinds the Shield Skeletons. Notice that right before he clicks the RIGHT MOUSE BUTTON to perform the skill the cursor is a sword(because he just had the mouse over the enemy skeleton)
What does that mean? Not much. Besides putting your argument to rest. I believe that the cursor will change to a sword whenever you mouse over a monster(as it did several times before the barb made a normal attack or right mouse skill). And the reason it does not seem to do it all the time is that they haven't polished up the UI yet. That and the fact that the very first leap he performs does not change the cursor it pretty much eliminates the extra click style as a possibility.
BTW if it were to work as you think it does the cursor would need to change to a sword no matter where you point on the screen to let the player know they just hit one of the skill buttons. If not you wouldn't know for sure if you pressed it.
Ok, I assumed you were more intelligent considering you previous posts but I can see you don't read. I did watch the entire gameplay trailer again, notice the screenshot that is half way through the first dungeon.
I can admit when I am wrong and would hope you would at least have a better response than that. I am done with this thread unless you can respond to these two arguments:
1. Rule number one regarding User Interfaces, make it user friendly. If the icon doesn't change when you press a hotbar skill how does the user know the game recognized you pressing it. If you theory is correct then every time you pressed a hotbar skill the cursor would need to change to let the player know it is in targeting mode not just when it is on a monster.
2. How do you explain the icon changing to the sword when the barb is using a mouse based skill such as in the pic in my previous post?
If you can adequately explain that then we will be getting somewhere with this thread.
Why don't you give examples of how to make outdoor areas more dynamics than.
Multiple paths to take to reach key areas, all of which have varying degrees of difficulty and are built with certain classes in mind or with different challenges - harder paths give better items and XP while easier paths get you through the game quickly. Random events and large open battlefields that are not scripted I.E. randomly generated areas that are in-betweens for the structured areas...
Randomness mainly. Don't make the game 100% structured and linear like TQ was and don't make everything a terrible random mess like Hellgate: London. A mix is best.
Ex:
You get a quest that you need kill a boss inside a graveyard cathacombs. If you haven't the quest, you will not be able to enter the restricted cathacomb, but if you got the quest you got a key that let you get inside the extra dungeon.
The dungeon itself would be random, but with some critical parts pre inscripted. I walso would like puzzles. It would fix very nicely in the game.
Actually it's more user friendly to let you know if you are going to leap on a monster or next to him. After all, can you really be in doubt that you hit a hotkey? One doesn't just hit his hotkeys by accident without knowing it.
I don't even see that he is using a mouse skill in from your screenshot, but if he has already executed WW, why wouldn't he be able to hit another hotkey already? Perhaps while he is holding his mouse button to continuously cast a spell, it is displayed as a sword. It might be something completely else entirely, but I still didn't hear you come up with an even remotely reasonable explanation for the entire phenomena and I am still waiting.
I will ask on B.Net forums shortly and ask for a clarification to end this discussion once and for all.
Come on, I know you want to be right and all but that doesn't even make sense. What I am talking about is a visual cue on screen to show that you have selected from the hotbar. Your argument about not knowing where you will land is stupid because you will land where you are pointing the mouse. You would know if your mouse was on a monster or not.
Now who hasn't watched the video? lol, This is the point right when he is using whirlwind for the first time against the skeleton but it is one of many times this happens BEFORE/DURING/AFTER he uses a mouse button skill. (The whirlwind is mapped to the right mouse button at this point.). The more likely explaination is that cursor changes to the sword whenever you mouse over a creature that you can fight. The reason it doesn't do it consistently is because the User Interface hasn't been polished yet.
I think that would be the only way to put this to rest (Getting a blue post) other than waiting till BlizzCon. Its fun to argue about things but we both know we won't change our minds unless there is irrefutable proof.
On another note though there are a few things about the cursor I've been thinking about:
The cursor changes to a sword when over an enemy (maybe as well as a destructible environment item?) can someone check?
the cursor turns back to an arrow when not over an enemy (or destructible object)
the cursor turns to a sword when using a modifier key such as shift no matter where it is on the screen
the cursor, while a skill is being cast and during it's duration turns into a sword and stays that way until the duration of that skill has ended, or maybe this only happens during a skill like whirlwind where you are controling your character while in twirling death mode.
That makes sense. Good thinking. Except that I see no reason why a modifier key would be used for anything that happened in that trailer.
Nope not that either. Watch the first mini-boss fight closely. How the arrow is locked on the boss while he stands still, and then suddenly changes to a sword a moment before the attack.
I have to say that Dimebog is 99.9% right, at least regarding the trailer video. The skills are activated and then used by a mouseclick at a certain destination. I recommend watching the trailer in very slow-mo(VLC player is great btw ) At the begining, and esp. and the thousand pounder fight, everytime a skill is used, the cursor turns into a sword REGARDLESS of what is underneath it( that is easily visible at the TP fight )
I didn't see the change for the shouts(which seems logical)
As for the system itself, it will make the game harder to control and I think that will be esp. for long range fighters like someone with a bow or something. However, we should all trust Blizzard that if they decide to implement this, it will be balanced!
And for my last comment, all this is based on a trailer released maybe a year(or more)? before the game itself, anything can change
thanks for reading
Players wouldn't tolerate potion usage that were 2 keypresses away, and yet, at times a sorceress will need 2 keypresses to teleport away.
Back in Diablo 2, a skill was one keypress away if you mapped it to the left mouseclick, or if it happened to be the most recent skill you have used. Otherwise, it was two keypresses away.
My vote is, regardless of what that youtube video shows,
Diablo 3 should make it so skills are never more than a click or keypress away.
Dimebog, your liking to a two keypress sequence would be understandable if Diablo three were like Everquest, where a spell usually takes a few seconds to complete casting. However Diablo is quite fast and I just can't see why you think most people will tolerate a two press situation to teleport, firebolt or whatever.
Don't just think about yourself here, think "most players would prefer....":confused:
I hope Blizzard remember to make the hotbar vanish-able as when monsters appear southward, in the frenzy of battle, sometimes you click on an icon by mistake.