This thread is for discussing suggestions relating to the balanced and thriving economy of D3. My critical points are as follows.
1) Money should have a value > 0. In D1, money had a very small value -- because sometimes Griz would have a good item to buy. In D2, money had no value whatsoever. Gambling was a joke. I sunk all my money into gambling and never got a single thing worth keeping...while taking 4 characters to level 90 and acquiring all the godliest items in the game over years of work. Obviously gambling statistics were designed in a flawed an useless way. There is nothing of high value that can be purchased for a large sum of money making it useless as a currency. Also characters were limited to carrying a small amount. To fix this money problem I suggest 2 things. Firstly, make higher denominations of money that are inventory items. eg, 1000 A = 1 B. 10000 B = 1 C, etc. This is sort of like runes, except that runes do not fit this role because the bottom runes could not be converted all the way to the top runes. Secondly, there needs to be at least 1 purpose for money to a level 99 character. All that is needed is a single purpose. This gives it a trade value and makes it exchangable for any other item. A general purpose use would be to have some type of item buff which can be applied to ANY item (eg, unique, set, whatever) to give it some small permanent improvement.
2) There should be an in-game system for communicating trades. The trading chats were miserable...text flashing by so fast that you could barely read it. Very inefficient. It wastes Bnet server bandwidth to have that kind of unecessary spam. But if you dont have a built in system for hooking up traders, thats what you get. There were the trading forums, but those dont work too well -- you have to coordinate when and where to meet, there is a large time delay, you're constantly minimizing the game...not fun. The only other option is to join channels where lots of people show off their loot. Then its just a crapshoot.
To solve this problem I propose an integrated database system for user created "shops." Users could post their items, sale terms, etc. Other users could search the database to find matches, and filter by who's online and who's not. Similar to the contract system and market in Eve Online, although it doesn't have to be that complicated. Hell, anything will do...anything is better than sitting in front of the trade chat for hours skimming for a rare item to fly by.
3) This should go without saying, but I really hope that the PLETHORA of awesome uniques, sets, and rune words is respected and expanded upon in the fashion of D2. There have been SO many potentially good Diablo clones and all have failed miserably, in my opinion the prime reason is poor design of items. Nobody cares about finding randomly generated items. Theres something wonderfully pleasant about the cool sheen of a gold unique item with a list of stats filling the page. And I'm not talking about boring "+X" stats. The existence of unique items that did interesting things is what made them interesting...like Cleglaws, and that sort of thing. Just look at WoW, Guild Wars, or Hellgate London. All 3 are boring primarily because they have no items that are interesting enough to worth questing over...yet the entire game is based around questing. So, please, keep up the good trend that you started with D1 and really drove home in D2.
4) On Magic Finding: I hope we all understand how essential this is and I hope that it still exists. It is NECESSARY to the economy to have items that are insanely hard to find, but worth it. It is NECESSARY to motivate a person to keep looking for those items by providing a way to increase your chances, other than simply playing for a longer duration of time. MF did the trick. It also adds a very interesting balance...are you planning for the near future, or the end game? Are you going to tough it out, and make all your battles more difficult by wearing more MF? Hell, I found myself questing for the perfect MF gear even after I had all the good stuff that could be found with MF. Its just fun to increase your drop rate.
5) Diablo has always incorporated a bit of loss. This adds spice and makes the game feel more alive. A little more exciting. Remember drop-trading...great adrenaline rush there, sometimes. Even in D2, I got ripped off a few time by clever traders who managed to swap a ring at the last moment...or something like that. Or the very clever person who manages to spy on you exhcanging gear between chars. The fear that your session might close out and delete your gear...when you couldnt log back in fast enough. Blizzard obviously views this sort of thing as a problem that needs to be solved. Thats why they made all those safeties in the trading window. And Ive read that they will make it easy to transfer items between characters in D3, and also that drops are now individual for each monster. They also changed it so that you cant steel loot from PK-ing.
What you don't realize, Blizzard, is that Diablo thrives on PVP aspects and if you safety -pad everything, you KILL the game. Hardcore mode is not really an excuse either. ITs too hardcore for most people, too much riding on your internet connection, not too much fun for most people. I'm talking about general play.
In D1, there was a sense of exhileration meeting a new adventurer in the Monastery that D2 just didn't have. This knight looks friendly, he's helping you...but at any moment he could take a slash at you like a posessed demon! Then you call in more friends to help. Perhaps he kills you and you need to go back to get your corpse. Yeah, you can say, "that sucked," but the fact is...you can be more careful if you need to be, but the existence of potential threat makes the game exciting. It also means you can build trust between players that is more meaningful than in a game where PvP doesnt happen.
There was a little bit of trust-building in D2 as well. Everyone needed to find some people to help them transfer items across characters. This was mostly a trust building thing and it raises the blood pressure sometimes too. If you make transfering between chars a simple secure transaction, you RUIN that exhileration and that trust building. Now its a kiddie farm and people get bored.
In D2, you had to think fast to pick up the good items before other people. You often had to move away from the pack and put yourself in more dangerous situations in order to get those good drops yourself. This was fun. Seeing a cool item drop...missing it...saying OH DAMNIT...yeah it sucked, but it made the game INTERESTING and fun.
Now there are personal drops. This sucks. It takes away from this fun aspect. Not only that, its worse for the economy, because monsters either have to drop N times less (for N players in the game), or they flood the economy with N times more wealth. If they drop less, players feel gyped. If they drop more, economy is flooded. It's not a good situation.
Whatever you do, just dont BIND items to players. Its bad enough that there were class-bound items in D2. Now all items will be class-bound in D3. This is quite a shame because it reduces the creativity that players can have in designing their arsenals. Yes, it does. Because you can only design a finite number of unique items, and if you divide that among P classes, that means there are only 1/P as many items per class as there could be WITHOUT class binding...and lets say you get to wear 5 items, the difference between (N choose 5) and (N/P choose 5) is pretty big. If you bind items to players, that just ruins the trade economy...nobody wnats to wear the items they find, or they arent happy with them because they cant switch to different char...just dont to it. It was a terrible design choice by the games that did it. Diablo has always been about trading dont ruin that.
6) Please bring some aspects of PK-ing back. I'm not talking about "PKing by choice." PKing by choice is not much fun because only well prepared characters will both agree. PKing is only fun if you're kicking someone elses ass, or exhilirating and memorable if someone is kicking YOUR ass. Of course, you will never voluntarily let them. What you need to have is gaming areas that have better loot probability but where PKing is allowed. This allows bold adventurers to venture into the risky area....at the increased RISK of having their head chopped off and their body looted to smitherenes. Make it a difficicult area so you cant just go in there with newb armor and be risk-free. You should have to risk what you wear being stolen to go there. This would be so much fun.
Yea i dont like the personal drop shit. i liked it the old style, ppl are such wussies... i loved the old pk system. i didnt mind gettin randomly hostiled by some next dude...
Oh and i beleive they have to make the items that merchants sell not USELESS, in d2 the shit they sold was terrible...
I agreed until you wanted PKing and loot stealing.
If you can't battle someone on your own level that is equally prepared, that's just sad. You claim they're safety padding everything but isn't PKs only picking on low levels a way of them safety padding themselves?
PKing is only fun for one person. The PK.
Personal drops shouldn't effect you at all. Only greedy people will get mad over personal drops. You only see what's yours. If you want something that dropped for someone else, trade for it.
The main concern I have for D3 is fighting duplicate items. If they can be %100 prevented not only will d3 have an awesome trading environment - but actually having a non-item based currency system might be possible.
The main concern I have for D3 is fighting duplicate items. If they can be %100 prevented not only will d3 have an awesome trading environment - but actually having a non-item based currency system might be possible.
I agreed until you wanted PKing and loot stealing.
If you can't battle someone on your own level that is equally prepared, that's just sad. You claim they're safety padding everything but isn't PKs only picking on low levels a way of them safety padding themselves?
PKing is only fun for one person. The PK.
For the record, I awaited Diablo 1 for about 6 months before it came out. It was my favorite game until Diablo 2 was released. Diablo 2 is still my favorite game. I was never very good at PKing. However, my most memorable experiences are all experiences related to ME being PK'ed, or getting tricked/ripped off. I was incredibly PISSED off when it happened, but they made lasting memories...they caused me to learn my lesson, and respect the game more.
Secondly, I am NOT advocating PvP EVERYWHERE outside of town like in D1. As I said in my original post, I am only advocating that there be certain designated PVP areas that have some "lure" such as more difficult enemies, better loot, more quests, or secret/difficult to find areas (randomly generated).
By having certain designated PVP areas, anyone who does not want to take the risk does not have to take the risk. But it will lure people who are WILLING to take the risk into them. This gives the PK'ers some fun because they can try to catch unprepared people. It gives the hunted players some fun, too, and they cant complain because they voluntarily took the risk.
Structured PvP battles were never much fun in D2.
Personal drops shouldn't effect you at all. Only greedy people will get mad over personal drops. You only see what's yours. If you want something that dropped for someone else, trade for it.
I specifically stated 2 reasons why personal drops affect the game negatively.
1) They necessarily result in less amount of items being visibly dropped from bosses, making the players will not well rewarded; or, alternatively, each boss simply produces more shit for each player, causing the economy to become quickly flooded due to cooperative play, which makes it easier to acquire the ultimate items. You might say "thats good," but its not..its really the exact same effect that DUPING has on the economy.
2) It reduces the excitement and potential backstabbing that you have when doing coop which allows people to bring their personalities into the game. Life is interesting because some people are nice, some people are mean...this is the spice of life. Finding good people. If everyone is forced into being a good person, its not so exciting.
The main concern I have for D3 is fighting duplicate items. If they can be %100 prevented not only will d3 have an awesome trading environment - but actually having a non-item based currency system might be possible.
Indeed, this is important -- and it is possible to completely eliminate duping, for server stored characters. I trust that we will not have to worry about this in D3, as I think they resolved all the problems with the D2 system..and I know they are reworking it to cut down on cheating.
There is one thing I will say about D1... it really new how to get your heart pumping more than any game I've ever played - next to the golden days of ultima online
Everything just felt dangerous, trading, PKing, dying. It was awesome. That open feeling of game play and the real risk associated with going down into the dungeons was awesome. If D3 can even come close to that I'll be surprised.
That's what real gaming is about. There is way too many young, carebare type gamers over flowing the market these days unfortunately. They need to be baby sat and spoon feed at every turn.
I am 100% for personalized drops. I think it's bullocks that I should miss out on loot based on where I live.
I do hope they have some way to link your items, or inspect players... Make trading a lot easier.
You don't have to miss out on loot because of where you live.
If you fight next to other people, you're choosing to sacrifice that drop for the ease of someone else's help in defeating the monster. If you want the drop, kill him yourself. Or, charge ahead into the foray a little bit so you can get some distance and get our own drops over there. This is what I've always done and it worked for me.
Another negative effect of personal drops is that you will have tons of worthless players trying to get into your party, following you around, and picking up free drops from every monster you kill. You cant kill them, because there is no PvP, and you cant quit the game without losing your own progress.
By having certain designated PVP areas, anyone who does not want to take the risk does not have to take the risk. But it will lure people who are WILLING to take the risk into them. This gives the PK'ers some fun because they can try to catch unprepared people. It gives the hunted players some fun, too, and they cant complain because they voluntarily took the risk.
Structured PvP battles were never much fun in D2.
I don't see a problem with this ideabut I do NOT buy the "I enjoy getting PK'd" story. No one enjoys getting PK'd when they're trying to play the game. Sure it may be "memorable" but it just pisses people off that want to enjoy cooperative play. You don't log in battle.net to be PKed, you log in to play with other people.
I specifically stated 2 reasons why personal drops affect the game negatively.
1) They necessarily result in less amount of items being visibly dropped from bosses, making the players will not well rewarded; or, alternatively, each boss simply produces more shit for each player, causing the economy to become quickly flooded due to cooperative play, which makes it easier to acquire the ultimate items. You might say "thats good," but its not..its really the exact same effect that DUPING has on the economy.
2) It reduces the excitement and potential backstabbing that you have when doing coop which allows people to bring their personalities into the game. Life is interesting because some people are nice, some people are mean...this is the spice of life. Finding good people. If everyone is forced into being a good person, its not so exciting.
The same amount of things will drop for a solo or partied team, the only difference is half of it will go to the other player, much like it does already anyway except this way there won't be people using item pickup programs.
Again why in the hell would people want to be backstabbed, it's not exciting. It's infuriating. If you're trying to tell me you enjoy being backstabbed I don't believe you. People will still bring their personalities into the game by the way they talk and act. It happens in every game.
Backstabbing is only fun for the people who want the potential aspect of backstabbing someone. Please don't try to tell me you enjoy getting items stolen right from underneath your nose because it's "exciting".
Another negative effect of personal drops is that you will have tons of worthless players trying to get into your party, following you around, and picking up free drops from every monster you kill. You cant kill them, because there is no PvP, and you cant quit the game without losing your own progress.
Im certain Blizzard isn't going to do things like that, only party members will be able to take items, and you will most likely have a kick from party option.
You're pretty much trying to tell me you enjoy getting killed and your items taken... No one enjoys that... they enjoy the potential thought of being able to do it to others.
I care about randomly generated items, item system was better before lod when rares were the best items.
MF was also better before lod, it wasn't overkill. You found nice rares with 0 mf and even more of them with only just about 100-200 mf. You also didn't have to kill some specific monsters to get a lot of loot, just clearing areas would give as much items as killing 1 boss. Of course the late areas like hell a4 and especially CS and diablo gave one of the best items, and diablo being only that gave +2 amulets, but gambling was another way to get those +2's.
And yeah even gambling was better before LOD. You actually wanted a lot of money to gamble uniques, good rings and amulets. Also gloves and boots was a popular gambling area since it was possible to get some nice rares.
I don't see a problem with this ideabut I do NOT buy the "I enjoy getting PK'd" story. No one enjoys getting PK'd when they're trying to play the game. Sure it may be "memorable" but it just pisses people off that want to enjoy cooperative play. You don't log in battle.net to be PKed, you log in to play with other people.
The same amount of things will drop for a solo or partied team, the only difference is half of it will go to the other player, much like it does already anyway except this way there won't be people using item pickup programs.
Again why in the hell would people want to be backstabbed, it's not exciting. It's infuriating. If you're trying to tell me you enjoy being backstabbed I don't believe you. People will still bring their personalities into the game by the way they talk and act. It happens in every game.
Backstabbing is only fun for the people who want the potential aspect of backstabbing someone. Please don't try to tell me you enjoy getting items stolen right from underneath your nose because it's "exciting".
Im certain Blizzard isn't going to do things like that, only party members will be able to take items, and you will most likely have a kick from party option.
You're pretty much trying to tell me you enjoy getting killed and your items taken... No one enjoys that... they enjoy the potential thought of being able to do it to others.
It's fun when items have less significance. Like in D1. A lot of the better items you could simply buy. They were easily replaceable. What makes open game play fun is the constant real risk facing your character. For example:
You die. You drop your loot and gold.
So the game forces you to pay more attention. Don't die. Chose your friends wisely. Use items that you can risk losing while playing with people you don't know. Killing tons of monsters over and over and over is easy and gets old. There is no "edge" to the game play. Rinse repeat. Boring.
A PK attacks you? Fight back. You're on even ground. Items don't come into play.
That's what made D1 great and what was mostly missing from D2. I hope that "open" feeling makes somewhat of a resurface in D3. But that's wishful thinking at best. People now a days feel too entitled to their uber items and mindless monster bashing.
That's what made D1 great and what was mostly missing from D2. I hope that "open" feeling makes somewhat of a resurface in D3. But that's wish thinking at best. People now a days feel to entitled to their uber items and mindless monster bashing.
I played D1 quite a bit just not online. I played D2 online plenty and all I know from that is that the PKing was never on even ground it was just to cause grief.
I don't feel entitled to my "uber" items but yes if I want to mindlessly bash monsters with people in hopes of making new friends, I should be entitled to it. It isn't causing anyone else any annoyance.
I'm all for PvP, but PKing always gets taken out of hand and people end up getting killed by someone 50+ levels higher because the higher level thinks it's funny for some reason.
I loved when id be like lvl 70 and a lvl 90 wud hostile me, i would always end up win the first 2 duels, then theyd leave and come back with a new and even better character..:P
I played D1 quite a bit just not online. I played D2 online plenty and all I know from that is that the PKing was never on even ground it was just to cause grief.
I don't feel entitled to my "uber" items but yes if I want to mindlessly bash monsters with people in hopes of making new friends, I should be entitled to it. It isn't causing anyone else any annoyance.
I'm all for PvP, but PKing always gets taken out of hand and people end up getting killed by someone 50+ levels higher because the higher level thinks it's funny for some reason.
There has always been a level restriction feature. I don't buy the "PKing is a problem because people 50 levels higher come in and kill me" argument.
There has always been a level restriction feature. I don't buy the "PKing is a problem because people 50 levels higher come in and kill me" argument.
It's pretty damn flimsy.
Lol?
It's a cooperative game. That's why there is a cooperative play online. If I want people to play with I can't really restrict my limit to within 4 levels or I won't meet anyone.
On the other hand the PKing argument is "It's fun to kill people! LULZ NOOBZ!" Yeah that's much more solid.
It's a cooperative game. That's why there is a cooperative play online. If I want people to play with I can't really restrict my limit to within 4 levels or I won't meet anyone.
"I won't meet anyone."
I call bullshit. There are PLENTY of people your level who can see and join your game. You're more likely to hit it off with people who at your level doing the same quests.
If I am a higher level player why would I want to randomly join a lower level game anyways?
It's a cooperative game. That's why there is a cooperative play online. If I want people to play with I can't really restrict my limit to within 4 levels or I won't meet anyone.
On the other hand the PKing argument is "It's fun to kill people! LULZ NOOBZ!" Yeah that's much more solid.
I can't tell if that's sarcasm or not, but I agree it is a solid argument. Killing newbs really is fun. If only there was a "Secret Newb Level" filled with newbs...
Yea... I mean you're really not going to convince a person who thinks PKing is fun otherwise. It's FUN for them just like killing monsters is FUN for you. These elements are always going to clash and that's what makes it FUN for everyone who plays.
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1) Money should have a value > 0. In D1, money had a very small value -- because sometimes Griz would have a good item to buy. In D2, money had no value whatsoever. Gambling was a joke. I sunk all my money into gambling and never got a single thing worth keeping...while taking 4 characters to level 90 and acquiring all the godliest items in the game over years of work. Obviously gambling statistics were designed in a flawed an useless way. There is nothing of high value that can be purchased for a large sum of money making it useless as a currency. Also characters were limited to carrying a small amount. To fix this money problem I suggest 2 things. Firstly, make higher denominations of money that are inventory items. eg, 1000 A = 1 B. 10000 B = 1 C, etc. This is sort of like runes, except that runes do not fit this role because the bottom runes could not be converted all the way to the top runes. Secondly, there needs to be at least 1 purpose for money to a level 99 character. All that is needed is a single purpose. This gives it a trade value and makes it exchangable for any other item. A general purpose use would be to have some type of item buff which can be applied to ANY item (eg, unique, set, whatever) to give it some small permanent improvement.
2) There should be an in-game system for communicating trades. The trading chats were miserable...text flashing by so fast that you could barely read it. Very inefficient. It wastes Bnet server bandwidth to have that kind of unecessary spam. But if you dont have a built in system for hooking up traders, thats what you get. There were the trading forums, but those dont work too well -- you have to coordinate when and where to meet, there is a large time delay, you're constantly minimizing the game...not fun. The only other option is to join channels where lots of people show off their loot. Then its just a crapshoot.
To solve this problem I propose an integrated database system for user created "shops." Users could post their items, sale terms, etc. Other users could search the database to find matches, and filter by who's online and who's not. Similar to the contract system and market in Eve Online, although it doesn't have to be that complicated. Hell, anything will do...anything is better than sitting in front of the trade chat for hours skimming for a rare item to fly by.
3) This should go without saying, but I really hope that the PLETHORA of awesome uniques, sets, and rune words is respected and expanded upon in the fashion of D2. There have been SO many potentially good Diablo clones and all have failed miserably, in my opinion the prime reason is poor design of items. Nobody cares about finding randomly generated items. Theres something wonderfully pleasant about the cool sheen of a gold unique item with a list of stats filling the page. And I'm not talking about boring "+X" stats. The existence of unique items that did interesting things is what made them interesting...like Cleglaws, and that sort of thing. Just look at WoW, Guild Wars, or Hellgate London. All 3 are boring primarily because they have no items that are interesting enough to worth questing over...yet the entire game is based around questing. So, please, keep up the good trend that you started with D1 and really drove home in D2.
4) On Magic Finding: I hope we all understand how essential this is and I hope that it still exists. It is NECESSARY to the economy to have items that are insanely hard to find, but worth it. It is NECESSARY to motivate a person to keep looking for those items by providing a way to increase your chances, other than simply playing for a longer duration of time. MF did the trick. It also adds a very interesting balance...are you planning for the near future, or the end game? Are you going to tough it out, and make all your battles more difficult by wearing more MF? Hell, I found myself questing for the perfect MF gear even after I had all the good stuff that could be found with MF. Its just fun to increase your drop rate.
5) Diablo has always incorporated a bit of loss. This adds spice and makes the game feel more alive. A little more exciting. Remember drop-trading...great adrenaline rush there, sometimes. Even in D2, I got ripped off a few time by clever traders who managed to swap a ring at the last moment...or something like that. Or the very clever person who manages to spy on you exhcanging gear between chars. The fear that your session might close out and delete your gear...when you couldnt log back in fast enough. Blizzard obviously views this sort of thing as a problem that needs to be solved. Thats why they made all those safeties in the trading window. And Ive read that they will make it easy to transfer items between characters in D3, and also that drops are now individual for each monster. They also changed it so that you cant steel loot from PK-ing.
What you don't realize, Blizzard, is that Diablo thrives on PVP aspects and if you safety -pad everything, you KILL the game. Hardcore mode is not really an excuse either. ITs too hardcore for most people, too much riding on your internet connection, not too much fun for most people. I'm talking about general play.
In D1, there was a sense of exhileration meeting a new adventurer in the Monastery that D2 just didn't have. This knight looks friendly, he's helping you...but at any moment he could take a slash at you like a posessed demon! Then you call in more friends to help. Perhaps he kills you and you need to go back to get your corpse. Yeah, you can say, "that sucked," but the fact is...you can be more careful if you need to be, but the existence of potential threat makes the game exciting. It also means you can build trust between players that is more meaningful than in a game where PvP doesnt happen.
There was a little bit of trust-building in D2 as well. Everyone needed to find some people to help them transfer items across characters. This was mostly a trust building thing and it raises the blood pressure sometimes too. If you make transfering between chars a simple secure transaction, you RUIN that exhileration and that trust building. Now its a kiddie farm and people get bored.
In D2, you had to think fast to pick up the good items before other people. You often had to move away from the pack and put yourself in more dangerous situations in order to get those good drops yourself. This was fun. Seeing a cool item drop...missing it...saying OH DAMNIT...yeah it sucked, but it made the game INTERESTING and fun.
Now there are personal drops. This sucks. It takes away from this fun aspect. Not only that, its worse for the economy, because monsters either have to drop N times less (for N players in the game), or they flood the economy with N times more wealth. If they drop less, players feel gyped. If they drop more, economy is flooded. It's not a good situation.
Whatever you do, just dont BIND items to players. Its bad enough that there were class-bound items in D2. Now all items will be class-bound in D3. This is quite a shame because it reduces the creativity that players can have in designing their arsenals. Yes, it does. Because you can only design a finite number of unique items, and if you divide that among P classes, that means there are only 1/P as many items per class as there could be WITHOUT class binding...and lets say you get to wear 5 items, the difference between (N choose 5) and (N/P choose 5) is pretty big. If you bind items to players, that just ruins the trade economy...nobody wnats to wear the items they find, or they arent happy with them because they cant switch to different char...just dont to it. It was a terrible design choice by the games that did it. Diablo has always been about trading dont ruin that.
6) Please bring some aspects of PK-ing back. I'm not talking about "PKing by choice." PKing by choice is not much fun because only well prepared characters will both agree. PKing is only fun if you're kicking someone elses ass, or exhilirating and memorable if someone is kicking YOUR ass. Of course, you will never voluntarily let them. What you need to have is gaming areas that have better loot probability but where PKing is allowed. This allows bold adventurers to venture into the risky area....at the increased RISK of having their head chopped off and their body looted to smitherenes. Make it a difficicult area so you cant just go in there with newb armor and be risk-free. You should have to risk what you wear being stolen to go there. This would be so much fun.
Thanks for listening
Oh and i beleive they have to make the items that merchants sell not USELESS, in d2 the shit they sold was terrible...
If you can't battle someone on your own level that is equally prepared, that's just sad. You claim they're safety padding everything but isn't PKs only picking on low levels a way of them safety padding themselves?
PKing is only fun for one person. The PK.
Personal drops shouldn't effect you at all. Only greedy people will get mad over personal drops. You only see what's yours. If you want something that dropped for someone else, trade for it.
i agree with you.
For the record, I awaited Diablo 1 for about 6 months before it came out. It was my favorite game until Diablo 2 was released. Diablo 2 is still my favorite game. I was never very good at PKing. However, my most memorable experiences are all experiences related to ME being PK'ed, or getting tricked/ripped off. I was incredibly PISSED off when it happened, but they made lasting memories...they caused me to learn my lesson, and respect the game more.
Secondly, I am NOT advocating PvP EVERYWHERE outside of town like in D1. As I said in my original post, I am only advocating that there be certain designated PVP areas that have some "lure" such as more difficult enemies, better loot, more quests, or secret/difficult to find areas (randomly generated).
By having certain designated PVP areas, anyone who does not want to take the risk does not have to take the risk. But it will lure people who are WILLING to take the risk into them. This gives the PK'ers some fun because they can try to catch unprepared people. It gives the hunted players some fun, too, and they cant complain because they voluntarily took the risk.
Structured PvP battles were never much fun in D2.
I specifically stated 2 reasons why personal drops affect the game negatively.
1) They necessarily result in less amount of items being visibly dropped from bosses, making the players will not well rewarded; or, alternatively, each boss simply produces more shit for each player, causing the economy to become quickly flooded due to cooperative play, which makes it easier to acquire the ultimate items. You might say "thats good," but its not..its really the exact same effect that DUPING has on the economy.
2) It reduces the excitement and potential backstabbing that you have when doing coop which allows people to bring their personalities into the game. Life is interesting because some people are nice, some people are mean...this is the spice of life. Finding good people. If everyone is forced into being a good person, its not so exciting.
Indeed, this is important -- and it is possible to completely eliminate duping, for server stored characters. I trust that we will not have to worry about this in D3, as I think they resolved all the problems with the D2 system..and I know they are reworking it to cut down on cheating.
Everything just felt dangerous, trading, PKing, dying. It was awesome. That open feeling of game play and the real risk associated with going down into the dungeons was awesome. If D3 can even come close to that I'll be surprised.
That's what real gaming is about. There is way too many young, carebare type gamers over flowing the market these days unfortunately. They need to be baby sat and spoon feed at every turn.
I do hope they have some way to link your items, or inspect players... Make trading a lot easier.
You don't have to miss out on loot because of where you live.
If you fight next to other people, you're choosing to sacrifice that drop for the ease of someone else's help in defeating the monster. If you want the drop, kill him yourself. Or, charge ahead into the foray a little bit so you can get some distance and get our own drops over there. This is what I've always done and it worked for me.
Another negative effect of personal drops is that you will have tons of worthless players trying to get into your party, following you around, and picking up free drops from every monster you kill. You cant kill them, because there is no PvP, and you cant quit the game without losing your own progress.
I don't see a problem with this idea but I do NOT buy the "I enjoy getting PK'd" story. No one enjoys getting PK'd when they're trying to play the game. Sure it may be "memorable" but it just pisses people off that want to enjoy cooperative play. You don't log in battle.net to be PKed, you log in to play with other people.
The same amount of things will drop for a solo or partied team, the only difference is half of it will go to the other player, much like it does already anyway except this way there won't be people using item pickup programs.
Again why in the hell would people want to be backstabbed, it's not exciting. It's infuriating. If you're trying to tell me you enjoy being backstabbed I don't believe you. People will still bring their personalities into the game by the way they talk and act. It happens in every game.
Backstabbing is only fun for the people who want the potential aspect of backstabbing someone. Please don't try to tell me you enjoy getting items stolen right from underneath your nose because it's "exciting".
Im certain Blizzard isn't going to do things like that, only party members will be able to take items, and you will most likely have a kick from party option.
You're pretty much trying to tell me you enjoy getting killed and your items taken... No one enjoys that... they enjoy the potential thought of being able to do it to others.
MF was also better before lod, it wasn't overkill. You found nice rares with 0 mf and even more of them with only just about 100-200 mf. You also didn't have to kill some specific monsters to get a lot of loot, just clearing areas would give as much items as killing 1 boss. Of course the late areas like hell a4 and especially CS and diablo gave one of the best items, and diablo being only that gave +2 amulets, but gambling was another way to get those +2's.
And yeah even gambling was better before LOD. You actually wanted a lot of money to gamble uniques, good rings and amulets. Also gloves and boots was a popular gambling area since it was possible to get some nice rares.
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
It's fun when items have less significance. Like in D1. A lot of the better items you could simply buy. They were easily replaceable. What makes open game play fun is the constant real risk facing your character. For example:
You die. You drop your loot and gold.
So the game forces you to pay more attention. Don't die. Chose your friends wisely. Use items that you can risk losing while playing with people you don't know. Killing tons of monsters over and over and over is easy and gets old. There is no "edge" to the game play. Rinse repeat. Boring.
A PK attacks you? Fight back. You're on even ground. Items don't come into play.
That's what made D1 great and what was mostly missing from D2. I hope that "open" feeling makes somewhat of a resurface in D3. But that's wishful thinking at best. People now a days feel too entitled to their uber items and mindless monster bashing.
I played D1 quite a bit just not online. I played D2 online plenty and all I know from that is that the PKing was never on even ground it was just to cause grief.
I don't feel entitled to my "uber" items but yes if I want to mindlessly bash monsters with people in hopes of making new friends, I should be entitled to it. It isn't causing anyone else any annoyance.
I'm all for PvP, but PKing always gets taken out of hand and people end up getting killed by someone 50+ levels higher because the higher level thinks it's funny for some reason.
WOOOO 800th POST!
There has always been a level restriction feature. I don't buy the "PKing is a problem because people 50 levels higher come in and kill me" argument.
It's pretty damn flimsy.
Lol?
It's a cooperative game. That's why there is a cooperative play online. If I want people to play with I can't really restrict my limit to within 4 levels or I won't meet anyone.
On the other hand the PKing argument is "It's fun to kill people! LULZ NOOBZ!" Yeah that's much more solid.
"I won't meet anyone."
I call bullshit. There are PLENTY of people your level who can see and join your game. You're more likely to hit it off with people who at your level doing the same quests.
If I am a higher level player why would I want to randomly join a lower level game anyways?
I can't tell if that's sarcasm or not, but I agree it is a solid argument. Killing newbs really is fun. If only there was a "Secret Newb Level" filled with newbs...