You see theres the contradiction my friend. You feel that losing items due to connection speed is a big thrill.
In response to me saying:
Quote from "mahamoti" »
1) I am not a fan of losing loot due to internet reasons. For example, I could never play hard core mode because my connection would frequently hang and I'd be left standing in a crowd of monsters to die. This was not enjoyable..
Seriously? Did you ever think of reading before posting, or do you think that you can read my mind better than you can read my text?
Seriously? Did you ever think of reading before posting, or do you think that you can read my mind better than you can read my text?
Now I am not one to be hostile, nor am I a poster who enjoys bashing others, but you also said.
Quote from "mahamoti" »
I have lost gear due to internet reasons as well: drop it somewhere, get a new char, Bnet or connection goes down, and I can't retrieve it. I certainly did not enjoy doing this. However, I don't think that should be changed -- sharing gear between your own characters is basically the same as power leveling yourself, because its primary use is to give high level equip from one character to another needy character. This makes the game a lot easier. Now, I agree that it is necessary to have a mechanism of transfering, but I don't think it should be encouraged, and the very slight risk associated with dropping items in a town was just about perfect in my opinion.
Your thread title says "Balanced & Successful Gameplay and Economy". I am not trying to "own" you or anything, but here you clearly claimed a transfer mechanism should not be encouraged because the chance of you losing items due to internet speed/ whatever not in game reason is "perfect". This is flawed, very flawed.
I am not trying to read your mind, I'm telling you where your contradictions are. Now I certainly do not enjoy getting bashed because someone failed to read my post properly, but I hate it when they cannot read their own post properly.
Sorry if I offended you in anyway, but there are so many useless threads being created each day. I was expecting suggestions to repair flaws in D2, but instead there are encouragements to flawed systems. Our opinions differ, that is true, but some of your suggestions encourage the new game to move backwards, not forwards.
Your thread title says "Balanced & Successful Gameplay and Economy". I am not trying to "own" you or anything, but here you clearly claimed a transfer mechanism should not be encouraged because the chance of you losing items due to internet speed/ whatever not in game reason is "perfect". This is flawed, very flawed.
Like you, I mean not to demean your statement, however so, I believe you have misinterrpreted his meaning.
A Successful Gameplay model is an entertainment structurally built with well-balanced mechanics forging a pleasureable experience for all, whether one likes getting PKed or Lossing items.
Economy, in simple terms, is a system of bartering or currency in a society.
The two together can, indeed, create a mixture of a stable trading model, money or items, that promotes a favorful/successful gameplay (catering to the diverse needs clearly stated by reading everyone's input to this thread). Of course, given the balanced gameplay features, assisting in mitigating the over-abundance of items, consequently, lessening the effectiveness of the trading, can reversable cause devestating effects on the game content and/or balance.
With that said, his meaning was to, in my opinion, not encourage transfers from between two or more of your "toons" (via mailbox, etc.). Due to undermining the experiences that one would have during the loot obtainment per character. (Disregard his opinion of the reason but focus on what his message is.)
Now here is the twist. I disagree with this. Regardless of how many implementation of enforcement the developers cast on the game, players will always become loot whores and MF until they run out of hot pockets. (Funny really, my brother did nothing but MF and his gear was far superior to mine)
For a second disregard MF and turn your attention to transfers of equipment to your corresponding characters. What happens when you use "pass-me-downs"? You lose eagerness and motivation to strive for those "undropped" goods. No more PvE, only PvP remains. Now this might not happen to you but in my circle that was all that remained gameplay worthy (outside of my brother). Much like a two-sided coin, one side posed a devestating effect on loot based on the lack of urge to collect more, and the other side promotes a deterred course of action to reduce the loot asset (uncritically thought out trading based on the value of the item to you NOT by value deemed by others). Swindlers and liars (sorry to be so blunt) begin to emerge from these actions.
Point be known, transfering my loot to my characters not only protects me from wanna-be PKers (which I never lost to a PKer, due to my friends and well-equipped toons) but also reduces the effort of struggling through the lower levels, thrusting me in the end-game loot, which I earned myself.
This to me is a successful gameplay model, how each and everyone of us has those memerable moments and conjured our own ethics and morallity in the diablo universe.
Entrepreneurial ventures are defined as a one to risk time and money to sieze an opportunity.
If you have all forgotten, Diablo is a MORPG (Multiplayer Role-playing Game).
Now truely digest these points. . .
Done? Good. Now when you walk to a supermarket or to the toliet there are risks, regardless if you notice them or not (most likely you have grown adjusted to accepting the risks and they lie dormant in your unconscious mind). I've never been a victim of a successful Pker, so I do not know all of the emotions that flourish from that unfortunate event. However, I do know of the adrenaline rush. I do know the risks we take everyday and the risks of going head first into a boss that has you at a disadvantage. And again, I understand the opportunity of taking down that boss.
Interjecting the entrepreneurial mind set, PKers may see the other players as an opportunity, whether to build a reputation or boost one's self esteem.
On the victims side, instead of being caught up on the "oh woe is me" isolation, focus on the positive aspect. If I were a victim of PKin' it would flare a most dominant thrust of Alpha-male'ism. I would strive to hunt down that PKer. Example, walking among a crowd ignoring the beaurocracy of diablo with nothing but my redemption on my mind. In addition, I would prepare myself from such an event (Town Portals, potions, groups, etc.)
One post on this thread (Sorry I can't remember where - but credit is to you) stated we bring in our own beliefs and persona in the diablo universe via our characters.
Don't use your frustration as a catalyst to bash PKin' because the fact is you failed at accepting the fate and wage a war against an idea - forfeit. One's lack of ability to accept the situation and initiate an action locationing a remedy, lessens your own credibility and reputation.
Abraham Lincoln once said, "I claim not to have controlled events, but confess plainly that events have controlled me".
Operant Conditioning... Look it up
Sorry if this post rings with aggression but I look at uneducated or uncritically thoughtout processes resulting in a biased opinion shows ignorance, and that is, in very essence, what plagues America - weakness.
SDCBloodline, do you happen to be the same person as mahamoti. Lol maybe its just me :P, but the your join date so happen to be the same as my post :D. Nae its probably just me.
SDCBloodline, you said
Quote from "SDCBloodline" »
With that said, his meaning was to, in my opinion, not encourage transfers from between two or more of your "toons" (via mailbox, etc.). Due to undermining the experiences that one would have during the loot obtainment per character. (Disregard his opinion of the reason but focus on what his message is.)
As far as I know, and from what I and he said, he clearly does claim he discourages proper item transfer. You seem to think I believe he encourages it, which is false :D. mahamoti originally said:
Quote from "mahamoti" »
2) I have lost gear due to internet reasons as well: drop it somewhere, get a new char, Bnet or connection goes down, and I can't retrieve it. I certainly did not enjoy doing this. However, I don't think that should be changed -- sharing gear between your own characters is basically the same as power leveling yourself, because its primary use is to give high level equip from one character to another needy character. This makes the game a lot easier. Now, I agree that it is necessary to have a mechanism of transfering, but I don't think it should be encouraged, and the very slight risk associated with dropping items in a town was just about perfect in my opinion.
Lol seriously though, if for any reason you're both the same people, there is no need to multi account, although my name sounds like I'm a flamer, its merely a way for me to show that regular arguements can be achieved without curse words. But meh its probably just me :thumbsup:. But the contradictions are rising to a new level.;)
Flamingdts, to adress your first assumption. No, I don't know who Mahmoti is, nor would I stoop to the level of multi-accounting for arguemental reasons. Sorry, sir, that is not my bundle of oats.
To adress your second assumption, re-read my post and tell me where I stated my interpretation of Mahmoti's encouragement of a proper (built-in - thats the key) channel in which to trade amongst your characters. It is not present, either you cannot understand me or you are molding my writing in your own eyes, preceived glorification.
I do not agree with Mahmoti when it comes to transfers between your own characters. However, my post was disproving your contradiciton (in my eyes). Re-read it, I believe there is a misunderstanding. Technology (which in my interpretation "mechanism") is an intellegent notion, a technique, or a process. I believe Mahmoti was tring to say, utilizing unorthadox tactics, he transfered his equipment. However, not to encourage an in-game transfering output. Use friends or drop-N-return technique, instead of a mailbox oriented channel.
Your problem is you take too much of a literal approach to the words written.
Justify your own means in your mind, outside of that chasm you illuminate your despair and desperation.
Now when you walk to a supermarket or to the toliet there are risks, regardless if you notice them or not (most likely you have grown adjusted to accepting the risks and they lie dormant in your unconscious mind).
I seriously hope you didn't just compare PK with a random homicide when going to supermarkets. People online + anonymity = inflated e-peen. People offline + no anonymity = people don't randomly kill you for any reason. People are policed by rules and laws. Online, they aren't. There are no one you can run to for help if you're attacked unless you call your friends and cry you were PK'd by a higher level. There are no consequences online. That's why people PK, they can get away with it; it's easy.
On the victims side, instead of being caught up on the "oh woe is me" isolation, focus on the positive aspect. If I were a victim of PKin' it would flare a most dominant thrust of Alpha-male'ism. I would strive to hunt down that PKer. Example, walking among a crowd ignoring the beaurocracy of diablo with nothing but my redemption on my mind. In addition, I would prepare myself from such an event (Town Portals, potions, groups, etc.)
This leads to degenerative pvp. It's either you kill me, I'll bring back my higher level and kill you or I bring another friend. After you die, you'll switch to another high level and call two friends. I call three, you call four. Is that type of degenerate PvP what you want in an online game? No, it causes hostility and paranoia for people who want to party up and have fun without glancing at the party screen every time someone joins a game and hoping he isn't 20 plus levels above everyone. Forcing everyone to play in private games is one of the WORST reasons you could ever provide considering Blizzard's stance on D3: online multiplayer co-op.
One's lack of ability to accept the situation and initiate an action locationing a remedy, lessens your own credibility and reputation.
And this is what a lot of players have to do. They get hostiled, they leave the game. PKer joins another game to hope for another sucker. Rinse and repeat. Awesome design! Let's see you try and find a friend online amidst all this hostility online.
Wow...are we still talking about Diablo here?! Get a grip! Most PKers are people who play 90 hours a week and run around killing people half their level because they have no self-esteem or no friends in RL. That's not fun being killed by them - especially as there is no way to go about killing them.
Somehow they get the idea in their head it's fun for all. Getting PKd is exciting? Yeah let's make a petition to add random crashes into the game as well. Both will be the same end result, you log in dead. Sounds exciting to me.
If there is something in the GAME that keeps others from playing the GAME, that's not successful GAMEplay.
Bringing your persona into the game? How about we learn to act like the civilized human beings and find more creative ways to work things out instead of "BRAWR HULK ANGRY! HULK SMASH!".
If someone is being rude to you try to find a solution. If not then mute them. If they persist in being a nuisance then kick them from the game (I'm sure there will be a feature like that.)
In real life if someone came up and called you some names would you stab them in the heart? No. If you did you'd go to jail.
It's much more productive to work things out than to just have a endless cycle of killing eachother because someone called you a noob.
Sure there will always be players you don't get a long with. That's just the way games are.
We were given logic and reasoning for a specific function you know.
Wow...are we still talking about Diablo here?! Get a grip! Most PKers are people who play 90 hours a week and run around killing people half their level because they have no self-esteem or no friends in RL. That's not fun being killed by them - especially as there is no way to go about killing them.
Chezdon, don't input your biases of victimization of PKers. That is a state of opinion, and your not thinking clearly.
Virtual Interactive Entertainment is about stimulating the end-user and, utlimately, encouraging fun. Entertainment = Fun
Some many find it quite entertaining to PK a few here and there. In Diablo, PKin' was frowned upon, but don't we live our lives buying in the culture that works for us? In other words, we accept what we deem acceptable right, wrong based on our personal interpretation of the world.
Regardless, if Pkers are 90hour dedicators that makes no difference, they are just searching for that entertainment. Furthermore, your poor evaluations of "A look inside the Average Pker" is unjust and plainly ignorant.
Ever laugh at the expense of someone? Old lady falls down, significant other stubs their toe on the desk? Same principles apply here. At the expense of your feelings, Pkers thrive.
Here's a point I would like to make, I do not PK myslef. I believe it is barbaric and unnecessay, however, I accept the game for what it is and the value it adds to other end-users.
I seriously hope you didn't just compare PK with a random homicide when going to supermarkets. People online + anonymity = inflated e-peen. People offline + no anonymity = people don't randomly kill you for any reason. People are policed by rules and laws. Online, they aren't. There are no one you can run to for help if you're attacked unless you call your friends and cry you were PK'd by a higher level. There are no consequences online. That's why people PK, they can get away with it; it's easy.
Firstly, I would not compare a PKer with a real-life homicide, it was written to bring light on the aspect of risks. It is risky to go outside, drink a pepsi, fill up your car with gas, etc.
You are correct, maybe a law system should be presented for the PKers. That isn't a bad idea, unfortunately, in reality, states police people but not fully control them. Laws or no, PKing with never completely diminish. This post was ment to shed light on the acceptance of what it is in correspondence with embracing a "scape-goat" method to prevent PKers the gradification.
Quote from "synthaza" »
This leads to degenerative pvp. It's either you kill me, I'll bring back my higher level and kill you or I bring another friend. After you die, you'll switch to another high level and call two friends. I call three, you call four. Is that type of degenerate PvP what you want in an online game? No, it causes hostility and paranoia for people who want to party up and have fun without glancing at the party screen every time someone joins a game and hoping he isn't 20 plus levels above everyone. Forcing everyone to play in private games is one of the WORST reasons you could ever provide considering Blizzard's stance on D3: online multiplayer co-op.
Again, in reality this happens. Joe Blow gets beat up. Joe Blow contacts a few friends, so on and so on. THe point is we bring individuality to Diablo and for that reason each of our experiences vary. Turn the other cheek and leave, you are only hurt if you let Pkers hurt you. Don't involve yourself in the squabble for domination unless you have the guns to prove it. (I've made my best diablo companions this way. We slugged it out for hours then realized the value in each opponent.)
Quote from "synthaza" »
And this is what a lot of players have to do. They get hostiled, they leave the game. PKer joins another game to hope for another sucker. Rinse and repeat. Awesome design! Let's see you try and find a friend online amidst all this hostility online.
Life is hostility. If you don't believe me look out the window.
Any player, PKed or not, can avoid or embrace PKing'. Niether will affect you unless you allow it to.
This whole "Cooperative Gameplay" excuse for removing PK is BS. As long as there is a common objective for all players, cooperation will flourish in countless different forms. In D2, there are always groups leveling and questing together. PK can be cooperative also... people can band together to fend off a PKer and PKers can strategize their hunt together.
So it's not about cooperative gameplay, it's about what these new developers find fun in a game. And I personally think they have the wrong idea about what made D2 so fun. After all, they admitedly never were addicted to D2, so how would they know? I have been PK'd and I didn't find it fun at all. But I would never want to be forced to have to cooperate with players that I don't want to cooperate with. If someone in my group is being an asshole, I want to be able to kill them. Not just leave the game or get into a war of words with them. And if someone PK's me, I accept it and move on. It's part of the fun of a multiplayer game. It's a fair exhange for playing a realistic game (as far as player interaction goes).
WoW - you can't trade with other players, you have to consent to duels, you are split up into hundreds of little servers etc... The content of the game is tremendous and there are countless hours of fun lying within the quests and raids. But Diablo's multiplayer has always been largely about realistic player interaction. D3 is going to be roughly the same size as D2, so don't expect the questing to keep you entertained forever like in WoW. Many people who have played both WoW AND D2 say that D2 was more exciting only because of the player interaction. The animosity and competative fire fueled by a single NK is priceless. The room allowed for griefing in Diablo was not specifiaclly added so that people would grief, but rather the griefers were a result of the limitless player interaction.
When a human being is born, they are not taught to treat people with disrespect (well.. depending on what country you are born in). But imagine if at birth your mouth was removed so that you couldn't mouth off to people... is that a solution for achieving a cooperative population? In the context of Diablo, removing the unconsentual hostile button is much the same. We lose out on all the good things that the no-holds-bar PvP brought, just to keep people from using it in a way that some players don't like. Personally, without griefers I would have gotten bored with D2 many years ago. Not because I like people treating me like crap, but because a system in which people are free to interact however they want is what made the game so fun for me.
Removing the game mechanics that make the game realistic (and don't start giving me this "realism in a fantasy game WtF?? bullshit because I am referring to realism in terms of freedoms of interaction between players) just to please a crowd that wants a squeeky-clean, friendly(forced) multiplayer experience, is just plain STUPID.
Life is hostility. If you don't believe me look out the window.
I don't know where you live but when I look out my window I see a tree, a lake, some other houses, and my back yard. I don't see people running around stabbing one another.
Any player, PKed or not, can avoid or embrace PKing'. Niether will affect you unless you allow it to.
Yes they both affect you.
You leave the game, your gameplay has been interrupted on the whim of a PK.
You stay in the game, you end up being killed and your gameplay is interrupted on the whim of a PK.
I don't know where you live but when I look out my window I see a tree, a lake, some other houses, and my back yard. I don't see people running around stabbing one another.
You took that statement too literally. Corruption, greed, self-gradification, malice, and so on, are all part of this world. Virtual or Reality both displays the same primative fashion because both are involved with humans. This is getting to sound like a life lesson *sigh*. Bottom line, PK is a small part of humans undying determination to prove dominate over others less fortunate or strong. Accept PKing or mourn the death of virtual character and let those feelings consume you.
Quote from "Daemaro" »
You leave the game, your gameplay has been interrupted on the whim of a PK.
You stay in the game, you end up being killed and your gameplay is interrupted on the whim of a PK.
This is true, an unforseen event swayed your picture perfect path. Sound familar?
Again, I do not PK! I have maybe once or twice but never made a huge campaign on PKing. I just see the way the world works and how to adjust to it.
Bottom line, PK is a small part of humans undying determination to prove dominate over others less fortunate or strong. Accept PKing or mourn the death of virtual character and let those feelings consume you.
Proving dominance can only be achieved through equal warning and similar levels. AKA: PvP.
You can't prove dominance over someone a lower level and unsuspecting. What does that prove? Cowardice on the PKs part.
PvP is unfun because why? Because there is a chance you will die. When you're PKing there is little to no chance you will die if you have any brains at all.
Proving dominance can only be achieved through equal warning and similar levels. AKA: PvP.
You can't prove dominance over someone a lower level and unsuspecting. What does that prove? Cowardice on the PKs part.
PvP is unfun because why? Because there is a chance you will die. When you're PKing there is little to no chance you will die if you have any brains at all.
We can go around and around about this topic. I accept your opinion on the results of PKing and how they can affect one's gameplay.
I don't think anyone wants PK removed, but rather a total remake of the system. As it stands right now, it's like this. Griefers can control the situation, the players who do not want to be PK'd cannot. PKers can join a game with players questing and PK them. The players questing will not join a game marked for dueling because it's completely nonsensical as they do not want to be PK'd. Their only choice is to quit the game and remake a private. That completely limits one spectrum of Diablo players who want to quest. As for PKers, they are well equiped or else they would not even PK to start with. No one wants to be killed by someone who they can never hit or land a blow. If you're killed by a PKer, chances are you will be killed again by that PKer when retrieving your body, no exceptions.
WoW - you can't trade with other players, you have to consent to duels,
1) What do you mean you can't trade with other players?
2) Duels are for members of your alliance only, you can still PK members of the opposing faction.
Many people who have played both WoW AND D2 say that D2 was more exciting only because of the player interaction
Really? I think for player interaction, WoW beats D2 hands down, no objections.
The room allowed for griefing in Diablo was not specifiaclly added so that people would grief, but rather the griefers were a result of the limitless player interaction.
I think the completely opposite. The griefing was amplified because of the limited room in D2. With a max of 8 players per game, if you had 1 PKer with very good equip, chances are you will die if he finds you in the open. Compare this to any MMO with a persistent world, you can easily run away and lose your aggressor and ask for help. Not so in D2, there are only six more people in that room. Who can help you if you're being PK'd by an extremely well equiped PKer that can outrun you, outdamage you, evade and resist all your attacks? The remaining six people who probably have crap gear? Like I said before, it only degenerates online play.
I think you guys have valid points, but i trust blizzard to make it a good game. I had one thought about personalized drops though. If you and another person are in the same party, lets say he is in town doin stuff and the other guy is out fighting, the guy in town can go outside of town and have hundreds of items on the floor just waiting for him.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Not Even Death Can Save You From Me" ~ Diablo (II)
I think you guys have valid points, but i trust blizzard to make it a good game. I had one thought about personalized drops though. If you and another person are in the same party, lets say he is in town doin stuff and the other guy is out fighting, the guy in town can go outside of town and have hundreds of items on the floor just waiting for him.
Well hopefully they'll make it to where you only get the loot if you're close to what's being killed.
I don't know where you live but when I look out my window I see a tree, a lake, some other houses, and my back yard. I don't see people running around stabbing one another.
Trees are in a constant struggle for resources. They are the most heartless of creatures alive (pun intended). Shading eachother out, roots entangled stealing eachothers water...over the last five years I watched this sycamore totally PK an oak in my yard.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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In response to me saying:
Seriously? Did you ever think of reading before posting, or do you think that you can read my mind better than you can read my text?
Now I am not one to be hostile, nor am I a poster who enjoys bashing others, but you also said.
Your thread title says "Balanced & Successful Gameplay and Economy". I am not trying to "own" you or anything, but here you clearly claimed a transfer mechanism should not be encouraged because the chance of you losing items due to internet speed/ whatever not in game reason is "perfect". This is flawed, very flawed.
I am not trying to read your mind, I'm telling you where your contradictions are. Now I certainly do not enjoy getting bashed because someone failed to read my post properly, but I hate it when they cannot read their own post properly.
Sorry if I offended you in anyway, but there are so many useless threads being created each day. I was expecting suggestions to repair flaws in D2, but instead there are encouragements to flawed systems. Our opinions differ, that is true, but some of your suggestions encourage the new game to move backwards, not forwards.
Blizzard
Valve
:thumbsup:
Like you, I mean not to demean your statement, however so, I believe you have misinterrpreted his meaning.
A Successful Gameplay model is an entertainment structurally built with well-balanced mechanics forging a pleasureable experience for all, whether one likes getting PKed or Lossing items.
Economy, in simple terms, is a system of bartering or currency in a society.
The two together can, indeed, create a mixture of a stable trading model, money or items, that promotes a favorful/successful gameplay (catering to the diverse needs clearly stated by reading everyone's input to this thread). Of course, given the balanced gameplay features, assisting in mitigating the over-abundance of items, consequently, lessening the effectiveness of the trading, can reversable cause devestating effects on the game content and/or balance.
With that said, his meaning was to, in my opinion, not encourage transfers from between two or more of your "toons" (via mailbox, etc.). Due to undermining the experiences that one would have during the loot obtainment per character. (Disregard his opinion of the reason but focus on what his message is.)
Now here is the twist. I disagree with this. Regardless of how many implementation of enforcement the developers cast on the game, players will always become loot whores and MF until they run out of hot pockets. (Funny really, my brother did nothing but MF and his gear was far superior to mine)
For a second disregard MF and turn your attention to transfers of equipment to your corresponding characters. What happens when you use "pass-me-downs"? You lose eagerness and motivation to strive for those "undropped" goods. No more PvE, only PvP remains. Now this might not happen to you but in my circle that was all that remained gameplay worthy (outside of my brother). Much like a two-sided coin, one side posed a devestating effect on loot based on the lack of urge to collect more, and the other side promotes a deterred course of action to reduce the loot asset (uncritically thought out trading based on the value of the item to you NOT by value deemed by others). Swindlers and liars (sorry to be so blunt) begin to emerge from these actions.
Point be known, transfering my loot to my characters not only protects me from wanna-be PKers (which I never lost to a PKer, due to my friends and well-equipped toons) but also reduces the effort of struggling through the lower levels, thrusting me in the end-game loot, which I earned myself.
This to me is a successful gameplay model, how each and everyone of us has those memerable moments and conjured our own ethics and morallity in the diablo universe.
By the way, Good post!
Entrepreneurial ventures are defined as a one to risk time and money to sieze an opportunity.
If you have all forgotten, Diablo is a MORPG (Multiplayer Role-playing Game).
Now truely digest these points. . .
Done? Good. Now when you walk to a supermarket or to the toliet there are risks, regardless if you notice them or not (most likely you have grown adjusted to accepting the risks and they lie dormant in your unconscious mind). I've never been a victim of a successful Pker, so I do not know all of the emotions that flourish from that unfortunate event. However, I do know of the adrenaline rush. I do know the risks we take everyday and the risks of going head first into a boss that has you at a disadvantage. And again, I understand the opportunity of taking down that boss.
Interjecting the entrepreneurial mind set, PKers may see the other players as an opportunity, whether to build a reputation or boost one's self esteem.
On the victims side, instead of being caught up on the "oh woe is me" isolation, focus on the positive aspect. If I were a victim of PKin' it would flare a most dominant thrust of Alpha-male'ism. I would strive to hunt down that PKer. Example, walking among a crowd ignoring the beaurocracy of diablo with nothing but my redemption on my mind. In addition, I would prepare myself from such an event (Town Portals, potions, groups, etc.)
One post on this thread (Sorry I can't remember where - but credit is to you) stated we bring in our own beliefs and persona in the diablo universe via our characters.
Don't use your frustration as a catalyst to bash PKin' because the fact is you failed at accepting the fate and wage a war against an idea - forfeit. One's lack of ability to accept the situation and initiate an action locationing a remedy, lessens your own credibility and reputation.
Abraham Lincoln once said, "I claim not to have controlled events, but confess plainly that events have controlled me".
Operant Conditioning... Look it up
Sorry if this post rings with aggression but I look at uneducated or uncritically thoughtout processes resulting in a biased opinion shows ignorance, and that is, in very essence, what plagues America - weakness.
SDCBloodline, you said
As far as I know, and from what I and he said, he clearly does claim he discourages proper item transfer. You seem to think I believe he encourages it, which is false :D. mahamoti originally said:
Lol seriously though, if for any reason you're both the same people, there is no need to multi account, although my name sounds like I'm a flamer, its merely a way for me to show that regular arguements can be achieved without curse words. But meh its probably just me :thumbsup:. But the contradictions are rising to a new level.;)
Blizzard
Valve
:thumbsup:
To adress your second assumption, re-read my post and tell me where I stated my interpretation of Mahmoti's encouragement of a proper (built-in - thats the key) channel in which to trade amongst your characters. It is not present, either you cannot understand me or you are molding my writing in your own eyes, preceived glorification.
I do not agree with Mahmoti when it comes to transfers between your own characters. However, my post was disproving your contradiciton (in my eyes). Re-read it, I believe there is a misunderstanding. Technology (which in my interpretation "mechanism") is an intellegent notion, a technique, or a process. I believe Mahmoti was tring to say, utilizing unorthadox tactics, he transfered his equipment. However, not to encourage an in-game transfering output. Use friends or drop-N-return technique, instead of a mailbox oriented channel.
Your problem is you take too much of a literal approach to the words written.
Justify your own means in your mind, outside of that chasm you illuminate your despair and desperation.
I seriously hope you didn't just compare PK with a random homicide when going to supermarkets. People online + anonymity = inflated e-peen. People offline + no anonymity = people don't randomly kill you for any reason. People are policed by rules and laws. Online, they aren't. There are no one you can run to for help if you're attacked unless you call your friends and cry you were PK'd by a higher level. There are no consequences online. That's why people PK, they can get away with it; it's easy.
This leads to degenerative pvp. It's either you kill me, I'll bring back my higher level and kill you or I bring another friend. After you die, you'll switch to another high level and call two friends. I call three, you call four. Is that type of degenerate PvP what you want in an online game? No, it causes hostility and paranoia for people who want to party up and have fun without glancing at the party screen every time someone joins a game and hoping he isn't 20 plus levels above everyone. Forcing everyone to play in private games is one of the WORST reasons you could ever provide considering Blizzard's stance on D3: online multiplayer co-op.
And this is what a lot of players have to do. They get hostiled, they leave the game. PKer joins another game to hope for another sucker. Rinse and repeat. Awesome design! Let's see you try and find a friend online amidst all this hostility online.
Somehow they get the idea in their head it's fun for all. Getting PKd is exciting? Yeah let's make a petition to add random crashes into the game as well. Both will be the same end result, you log in dead. Sounds exciting to me.
If there is something in the GAME that keeps others from playing the GAME, that's not successful GAMEplay.
Bringing your persona into the game? How about we learn to act like the civilized human beings and find more creative ways to work things out instead of "BRAWR HULK ANGRY! HULK SMASH!".
If someone is being rude to you try to find a solution. If not then mute them. If they persist in being a nuisance then kick them from the game (I'm sure there will be a feature like that.)
In real life if someone came up and called you some names would you stab them in the heart? No. If you did you'd go to jail.
It's much more productive to work things out than to just have a endless cycle of killing eachother because someone called you a noob.
Sure there will always be players you don't get a long with. That's just the way games are.
We were given logic and reasoning for a specific function you know.
Chezdon, don't input your biases of victimization of PKers. That is a state of opinion, and your not thinking clearly.
Virtual Interactive Entertainment is about stimulating the end-user and, utlimately, encouraging fun. Entertainment = Fun
Some many find it quite entertaining to PK a few here and there. In Diablo, PKin' was frowned upon, but don't we live our lives buying in the culture that works for us? In other words, we accept what we deem acceptable right, wrong based on our personal interpretation of the world.
Regardless, if Pkers are 90hour dedicators that makes no difference, they are just searching for that entertainment. Furthermore, your poor evaluations of "A look inside the Average Pker" is unjust and plainly ignorant.
Ever laugh at the expense of someone? Old lady falls down, significant other stubs their toe on the desk? Same principles apply here. At the expense of your feelings, Pkers thrive.
Here's a point I would like to make, I do not PK myslef. I believe it is barbaric and unnecessay, however, I accept the game for what it is and the value it adds to other end-users.
Firstly, I would not compare a PKer with a real-life homicide, it was written to bring light on the aspect of risks. It is risky to go outside, drink a pepsi, fill up your car with gas, etc.
You are correct, maybe a law system should be presented for the PKers. That isn't a bad idea, unfortunately, in reality, states police people but not fully control them. Laws or no, PKing with never completely diminish. This post was ment to shed light on the acceptance of what it is in correspondence with embracing a "scape-goat" method to prevent PKers the gradification.
Again, in reality this happens. Joe Blow gets beat up. Joe Blow contacts a few friends, so on and so on. THe point is we bring individuality to Diablo and for that reason each of our experiences vary. Turn the other cheek and leave, you are only hurt if you let Pkers hurt you. Don't involve yourself in the squabble for domination unless you have the guns to prove it. (I've made my best diablo companions this way. We slugged it out for hours then realized the value in each opponent.)
Life is hostility. If you don't believe me look out the window.
Any player, PKed or not, can avoid or embrace PKing'. Niether will affect you unless you allow it to.
So it's not about cooperative gameplay, it's about what these new developers find fun in a game. And I personally think they have the wrong idea about what made D2 so fun. After all, they admitedly never were addicted to D2, so how would they know? I have been PK'd and I didn't find it fun at all. But I would never want to be forced to have to cooperate with players that I don't want to cooperate with. If someone in my group is being an asshole, I want to be able to kill them. Not just leave the game or get into a war of words with them. And if someone PK's me, I accept it and move on. It's part of the fun of a multiplayer game. It's a fair exhange for playing a realistic game (as far as player interaction goes).
WoW - you can't trade with other players, you have to consent to duels, you are split up into hundreds of little servers etc... The content of the game is tremendous and there are countless hours of fun lying within the quests and raids. But Diablo's multiplayer has always been largely about realistic player interaction. D3 is going to be roughly the same size as D2, so don't expect the questing to keep you entertained forever like in WoW. Many people who have played both WoW AND D2 say that D2 was more exciting only because of the player interaction. The animosity and competative fire fueled by a single NK is priceless. The room allowed for griefing in Diablo was not specifiaclly added so that people would grief, but rather the griefers were a result of the limitless player interaction.
When a human being is born, they are not taught to treat people with disrespect (well.. depending on what country you are born in). But imagine if at birth your mouth was removed so that you couldn't mouth off to people... is that a solution for achieving a cooperative population? In the context of Diablo, removing the unconsentual hostile button is much the same. We lose out on all the good things that the no-holds-bar PvP brought, just to keep people from using it in a way that some players don't like. Personally, without griefers I would have gotten bored with D2 many years ago. Not because I like people treating me like crap, but because a system in which people are free to interact however they want is what made the game so fun for me.
Removing the game mechanics that make the game realistic (and don't start giving me this "realism in a fantasy game WtF?? bullshit because I am referring to realism in terms of freedoms of interaction between players) just to please a crowd that wants a squeeky-clean, friendly(forced) multiplayer experience, is just plain STUPID.
Yes they both affect you.
You leave the game, your gameplay has been interrupted on the whim of a PK.
You stay in the game, you end up being killed and your gameplay is interrupted on the whim of a PK.
You took that statement too literally. Corruption, greed, self-gradification, malice, and so on, are all part of this world. Virtual or Reality both displays the same primative fashion because both are involved with humans. This is getting to sound like a life lesson *sigh*. Bottom line, PK is a small part of humans undying determination to prove dominate over others less fortunate or strong. Accept PKing or mourn the death of virtual character and let those feelings consume you.
This is true, an unforseen event swayed your picture perfect path. Sound familar?
Again, I do not PK! I have maybe once or twice but never made a huge campaign on PKing. I just see the way the world works and how to adjust to it.
Proving dominance can only be achieved through equal warning and similar levels. AKA: PvP.
You can't prove dominance over someone a lower level and unsuspecting. What does that prove? Cowardice on the PKs part.
PvP is unfun because why? Because there is a chance you will die. When you're PKing there is little to no chance you will die if you have any brains at all.
We can go around and around about this topic. I accept your opinion on the results of PKing and how they can affect one's gameplay.
However, I disagree with it.
Let us agree to disagree.
2) Duels are for members of your alliance only, you can still PK members of the opposing faction.
Really? I think for player interaction, WoW beats D2 hands down, no objections.
I think the completely opposite. The griefing was amplified because of the limited room in D2. With a max of 8 players per game, if you had 1 PKer with very good equip, chances are you will die if he finds you in the open. Compare this to any MMO with a persistent world, you can easily run away and lose your aggressor and ask for help. Not so in D2, there are only six more people in that room. Who can help you if you're being PK'd by an extremely well equiped PKer that can outrun you, outdamage you, evade and resist all your attacks? The remaining six people who probably have crap gear? Like I said before, it only degenerates online play.
Good. I'm glad this concept isn't too abstract to some people.
Usually when I ask for that they just say "LOL YOU JUST DONT WANT TO ARGUE ANYMORE BECAUSE YOU KNOW IM RITE!!1"
When it's quite the opposite. Both people feel they're right and a argument on the internet isn't going to change it.
Well hopefully they'll make it to where you only get the loot if you're close to what's being killed.
Within 4 screens for example.
Trees are in a constant struggle for resources. They are the most heartless of creatures alive (pun intended). Shading eachother out, roots entangled stealing eachothers water...over the last five years I watched this sycamore totally PK an oak in my yard.