You should make yourself a little more productive. I was skeptical when the forum claims many of the petitioners had little to no arguement at all. However, that is becoming more and more believable...... :O.
To the green wall thing though. Thousands of games have green walls in caves and dungeons, even the most violent and mature games. If someone could give me a better color to brighten up dungeons without making it too bright or too dark. I'd say no to all green walls. But so far, I've yet to see better colors than green that would not destroy the quiet and creepy atmosphere.
There were plenty of good debates on both sides when the announcement was first made, but now it just turns into some sort of flamefest, and it's both sides to blame and neither one has a damn point to make anyways because all the good points have been made and due to the massive amount of keyboard sewage spewed out by the trolls it isn't worth it to repeat them.
There were plenty of good debates on both sides when the announcement was first made, but now it just turns into some sort of flamefest, and it's both sides to blame and neither one has a damn point to make anyways because all the good points have been made and due to the massive amount of keyboard sewage spewed out by the trolls it isn't worth it to repeat them.
That was a really long sentence.
Yea, basically everything that could be said... has been said. Now it turns into a bunch of repetitious arguments and flaming. Both sides have gone overboard. Personally I think it hit the ceiling when Hello Kitty made it in there, and then to the otherside when they were trying to explain the green light.
I am in the gray area. I am neither for the changes, nor really against them. Basically I don't give a damn. What I don't like is people taking each side to the extreme. We can't really discuss anything new related to the graphical design until more information is revealed now.
Yea, basically everything that could be said... has been said. Now it turns into a bunch of repetitious arguments and flaming. Both sides have gone overboard. Personally I think it hit the ceiling when Hello Kitty made it in there, and then to the otherside when they were trying to explain the green light.
I am in the gray area. I am neither for the changes, nor really against them. Basically I don't give a damn. What I don't like is people taking each side to the extreme. We can't really discuss anything new related to the graphical design until more information is revealed now.
But that won't stop people
I tried to stay out of the whole thing as much as possible, while I want grittier I don't want graphics overhaul. I'd prefer they choose different ambient lighting that fit. Some people will say that it's light reflecting off of blue stone, but I have a brick walled basement, and if I light a candle down there it doesn't make the whole room glow red.
No shit, its darker then WoW. :rolleyes:
A little change? Don't come crawling back with "it did change" now just cause Blizz came clean, by the by, "change" isn't evolution, and that fact is damn clear.
-People note that art design changed, they obviously don't like it cause they are fans of the original art design.
-Other people try to discredit their arguments and refuse to accept the fact anything changed, let alone was influenced by WoW.
-Blizzard says it indeed changed and it indeed is not what fans would've expected and it indeed got influenced by WoW, oh, and fuck the fans, too late now.
What else is their to say? Accept it as fact and stop justifying Blizzard, you either like the change or you dislike it. Nuff said.
Like I have said in the other forum about this topic, ppl where begging for this game to come and now they have it they are still complaining about nonsense.
Fans were screaming for a sequel and blizzard delivered, thumbs up for Blizzard for sticking with what they presented! :rolleyes:
They changed it twice, twice going further away from Diablo and closer to WoW, it is a fact! Please don't tell me you're so set on not being wrong on the interwebs you start to deny what Blizz stated. For fucks sake, i already accepted the change and i hope the rest of Diablo won't go under the same "anti fan treatment", why can't you? I'm sick with the denial, it was already crystal clear from the first time they showed D3 and instead of arguing it you guys did nothing more then denying it for whatever childish reason, and you still can't stop denying the obvious and the factual, its like some sort of decease.
Nobody is denying, at least not me. D3 art has changed for the better, and has changed to tag along with technology, yet not going overboard so that D3 is available to as many people as possible.
However, its not the fact that people are denying it, its just a natural way of arguing. If someone calls you an idiot, you say you're not an idiot. If someone tells you your hair is bad, you say its not. On occasions, you get "I don't care", but human nature makes you deny what is accused.
Those that don't enjoy the new art style insult those who do, and bring on the most pathetic ways of arguing. Those who don't care/or do enjoy the new art style tells the petitioners to screw off.
As long as someone says Blizzard has disappointed us, it will bring on flame war. One only speaks for oneself, and no other. If posters speak for themselves and themselves only, there will be less arguement and flamiing.
Like I have said in the other forum about this topic, ppl where begging for this game to come and now they have it they are still complaining about nonsense.
Fans were screaming for a sequel and blizzard delivered, thumbs up for Blizzard for sticking with what they presented! :rolleyes:
I think the problem here was the extremely long gap between the 2 games.
People had 8 years to think about Diablo III and obviously started fantasizing about the game and how it would be. and when blizzard came out and said here's the game 8 years later, it didnt match people's fantasies of the game.
sorta like fantasizing about jessica alba then getting jessica biel. They're both good looking, they're both Jessicas but they are both different peopel.
and while some people prefer Biel, alot of others like Alba better.
k I think I'm going off topic here.:confused:
what I wanna say is, if you stop comparing the game to what you expected it to be, you will start to appreciate it and like it for what it is so far.
i can see how a light radius wouldn't work in 3D... and after finding out that they replaced the original game artists with new/world of warcraft. plus the fact that the lead artist is from WoW explains the similarities to WoW.
Diablo really made its trade mark from being dark and gloomy and changing that is is changing the essence of diablo. now i do feel that the change from 2D to 3D had influenced a lot of the changes and i must say there are a lot of very cool intriguing aspects to diablo 3. but graphics and game play are the main things looked at. and if you screw them up you screw up the game. and as of now were can't determine the game play. so the only thing we can determine is the graphics which we really don't have enough info on.
but the info we do have on it is that the made it a relevant to the area, which is a forest. the "cave" looks like a ruin. so it should be called correctly. and ruins don't have green walls (i promise).
now i personally signed the petition because the information in there follows closely to what i believe should happen.
now weather blizzard changes the graphics i don't know but just because they announced that the aren't going to doesn't mean they won't, just means they don't feel that the gamers have enough information to change it which is correct but by the time they give enough information they will have screw them selves over.
(no what is after this isn't really relevant)
the people that made diablo 2 were fired(or quit not really sure on that part) but they were part of blizzard north which was shut down around 2 years after diablo 2 came out. (->now this is complete speculation->) but that is plenty of time for diablo 3 to have had content made, mostly graphics.
after they left the created flagship studios. which made hellgate London this game was a team effort between pingo and flagship studios. now they are creating a game called mythos. or were they said that it was going into hiatus(a pause). now this is because the people who were providing the servers for hellgate tried to claim hellgate the got into a large fight and now flagship studios is laying off workers.
(->Speculation->) now many people beleive that Blizzard had something to do with this.(you may wonder why) well this is because mythos was to be a free MMO and to be extremely close to diablo.
many sites including eurogamer have said that it could be bigger then WoW which because its free it would attract WoW players and blizzard would risk losing diablo fans to a game that stays dark in dungeons but has a light peaceful feeling to it in over world but is similar to diablo. now mythos was only in closed beta but was supposed to start open beta some time between august and September.
ok so i will probably be banned for this even though it is just my opinion(and im trying to get something that wasn't mentioned before that has evidence to back it up out there for people to make a decision off of)
~im gonna check back in a few days to see if im banned and to see what posts/comments were made on this~
i can see how a light radius wouldn't work in 3D... and after finding out that they replaced the original game artists with new/world of warcraft. plus the fact that the lead artist is from WoW explains the similarities to WoW.
Diablo really made its trade mark from being dark and gloomy and changing that is is changing the essence of diablo. now i do feel that the change from 2D to 3D had influenced a lot of the changes and i must say there are a lot of very cool intriguing aspects to diablo 3. but graphics and game play are the main things looked at. and if you screw them up you screw up the game. and as of now were can't determine the game play. so the only thing we can determine is the graphics which we really don't have enough info on.
but the info we do have on it is that the made it a relevant to the area, which is a forest. the "cave" looks like a ruin. so it should be called correctly. and ruins don't have green walls (i promise).
now i personally signed the petition because the information in there follows closely to what i believe should happen.
now weather blizzard changes the graphics i don't know but just because they announced that the aren't going to doesn't mean they won't, just means they don't feel that the gamers have enough information to change it which is correct but by the time they give enough information they will have screw them selves over.
(no what is after this isn't really relevant)
the people that made diablo 2 were fired(or quit not really sure on that part) but they were part of blizzard north which was shut down around 2 years after diablo 2 came out. (->now this is complete speculation->) but that is plenty of time for diablo 3 to have had content made, mostly graphics.
after they left the created flagship studios. which made hellgate London this game was a team effort between pingo and flagship studios. now they are creating a game called mythos. or were they said that it was going into hiatus(a pause). now this is because the people who were providing the servers for hellgate tried to claim hellgate the got into a large fight and now flagship studios is laying off workers.
(->Speculation->) now many people beleive that Blizzard had something to do with this.(you may wonder why) well this is because mythos was to be a free MMO and to be extremely close to diablo.
many sites including eurogamer have said that it could be bigger then WoW which because its free it would attract WoW players and blizzard would risk losing diablo fans to a game that stays dark in dungeons but has a light peaceful feeling to it in over world but is similar to diablo. now mythos was only in closed beta but was supposed to start open beta some time between august and September.
ok so i will probably be banned for this even though it is just my opinion(and im trying to get something that wasn't mentioned before that has evidence to back it up out there for people to make a decision off of)
~im gonna check back in a few days to see if im banned and to see what posts/comments were made on this~
I thought Diablo made its trademark from being an awesome Action RPG. I must have missed the part where "Dark and Gloomy" became a game genre. Sure the atmosphere of Diablo 1 and 2 made the game a little funner to play, but I doubt it added to it's overall gameplay. If Blizzard wanted to attract WoW fans to any game they would release another WoW Expansion (OMG?), or simply make Warcraft 4. Granted they are 2 different styles, but then so are WoW and D3.
I don't believe Blizzard has anything to do with Flagship studios. Why would they bother wasting any resources to take down a company that poses absolutely no threat to them? Mythos and Diablo are vastly different games and, judging even from the 20 min gameplay video and Blizzard past track record, Mythos was boring while Diablo 3 looks extremely fun (all pure specualtion for D3 of course).
Gamers have enough information? I hope to god that no game developer ever creates a game for the fans. It happens in anime all the time and you know what they call that? Fan service. The vast majority of the time fan service stuff is garbage simply because a developer tries to please everyone when its not possible. Blizzard, or Blizzard North, said that they create games that they would love to play and if other people want to play it... great! Game creation is an art and is subjective. What one person thinks is good another person might think it's garbage. The best thing the developers can ever do is create the game in their own image instead of the image of people who think they know how things should be.
I dunno if they game should be the way it is now, and I don't know if it should be the way the petitioners want it. All I know is I am probably going to end up playing it regardless, and it's not my decision to choose how one person creates their own peice of art. If I go to an art exhibit and I don't like a painting that was done by an artist. I don't tell him how I think it should look... I simply go on to the next painting.
I think the colour debate has run it's course. No new information AGAINST Blizzard has come out the past few days. If anything, it is just more information justifying the new style.
About time we laid down our swords and headed to Atma's tavern for a cool drink and had a constructive look at D3.
Let's not all be sore losers.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
So we've got over the problem of colour in D3. Great. Now let's argue about everything else not yet set in stone and help make this game simply great! Game on.
I dunno if they game should be the way it is now, and I don't know if it should be the way the petitioners want it. All I know is I am probably going to end up playing it regardless, and it's not my decision to choose how one person creates their own peice of art. If I go to an art exhibit and I don't like a painting that was done by an artist. I don't tell him how I think it should look... I simply go on to the next painting.
Yes, but in that case you weren't emotionally attached to that collection of paintings. If you were, and you didn't say something, you wouldn't be true to yourself. An intelligent person who has emotional attachment expresses himself, which is the very nature of the painter who painted the piece that you are looking at. Believe it or not, but the better painters have underlying meaning hidden in their work which is a response to pertinent issues surrounding that artists' life. Perhaps this shortsightedness is due to the fact that you're not much an artist or art enthusiast. By no means should your tendencies mentioned above be norm in the world of art, or there would no longer be a reason for art.
I'm getting awful tired of all of these lightweight posters trying to throw their weight around and whine that they're ruining Diablo 3, Blizzard is doomed to failure, they're not coming back and they'll never buy D3.
I wish people would either
a) REALLY not come back.
or
Never SIGN UP in the first place.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It's time to welcome the other 80% of the color wheel to a Diablo game.
http://ve3d.ign.com/images/30864/PC/Diablo-III
Again, the skeletons look like a natural part of the environment. You could say thats just my opinion, but they could easily make them stay out more, would be a lot better, for everyone.
http://ve3d.ign.com/images/30883/PC/Diablo-III
Goatmen may be less demonic and creepy than undead or demons, but those are a little too un-creepy. The place is damn too bright and looks so happy.
In the following pic the gore is nice but unfortunately all the stains disappear after the fight, so concentrate on the environment to get what i mean: http://ve3d.ign.com/images/30875/PC/Diablo-III
If they add blood and some gore to the place, and make it a little less bright, it would look 10x more kickass. Even if you like how it currently is, im sure you would be even more happy if they do something like what im trying to say.
agreed. +2
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you get personally attacked by letters through the internet its a good thing to always have a box of tissues and a band-aid around.
http://ve3d.ign.com/images/30864/PC/Diablo-III
Again, the skeletons look like a natural part of the environment. You could say thats just my opinion, but they could easily make them stay out more, would be a lot better, for everyone.
http://ve3d.ign.com/images/30883/PC/Diablo-III
Goatmen may be less demonic and creepy than undead or demons, but those are a little too un-creepy. The place is damn too bright and looks so happy.
In the following pic the gore is nice but unfortunately all the stains disappear after the fight, so concentrate on the environment to get what i mean: http://ve3d.ign.com/images/30875/PC/Diablo-III
If they add blood and some gore to the place, and make it a little less bright, it would look 10x more kickass. Even if you like how it currently is, im sure you would be even more happy if they do something like what im trying to say.
This has been discussed.
It's 20 years after the events of D2. Of course the landscape is going to regrow and come back to it's former beauty. That's the contrast. The beauty of the land with the grisly undead.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It's time to welcome the other 80% of the color wheel to a Diablo game.
If it changed for the better or the worst is opinion, it did change however, and technology having anything to do with it is plain bullshit.
Don't give me that "natural way of arguing" BS either, people noted the change, other people flamed them for noting the change and denied anything changed at all, let alone the heavy influence of WoW.
Come on, we've all seen it, the "trust Blizzard"s, the "how dare you question them"s, the "stop whining"s, the endless "complain about complainer"s treads and so on so forth. Fuck, it was the complete interwebs, from something aweful's ugly hyperbols, to Gamespot's outragious lies. For some strange reason only possible in an upsidedown world, everyone was shellshocked some people actually DARED to express their dislike over a pretty heavy art change in a gamefranchise they are fan of, and the petition, BLASPHEMY to make a petition and signing it asking a huge company to please consider the fans that actually liked the previous art design, HOW DARE THEY, everyone jumping on the "they DEMAND something something" bandwagon. "WoW, some people actually are never satisfied" while not having the slightest clue to what Diablo was. I don't know if you participated in them, but don't deny their existance.
I can call you and the petitioners Hypocrites as well (I'm not saying the anti petitioners are not hypocrites though). I'm on a neutral spot, , so maybe I didn't make things clear enough, so its my fault. However, you honestly don't think that 100% of the forum posters here would give you the type of arguement you want right? Come on. If you said D3 is too cartoony, 10 guys are gonna jump at you and say its not. It may just be denying for some, but for starters, denying a statement is your first counter-arguement.
I'm gonna admit it like before. D3 does have WoW elements. But you know why you don't see me in flame wars? I don't jump to conclusions. Blizzard IS a trustable and very respectable company. This company is known for minimal to no screwups at all. They completely trashed SC: Ghost because they respected the community (a very very large percentage of the community dislike SC: Ghost being available to consoles only).
The fact is, many petitioners jump to conclusion and trashed Blizzard for a gameplay video that showed a very small section of an area of the Act. They deny the fact that Blizzard has yet to screw up any products they released. So when it comes to hypocrites, it goes both ways.
There is nothing here that will satisfy the petitioners nor the constant complaints. The forum is now literally trashed with flames and insults. Nothing is going to stop the complaints until the game itself is released. So why drop the bomb now?
As far as I know, the petitioners are not exactly the good boys around here (and neither are those against it). They have compared D3 to the likes of Barney and Hello Kitty. That is insulting even to me. I like to stay neutral, but what I really want to do is discuss something useful instead of having to post through bombs and flames just to answer a topic. And even if I managed to post, my post would probably be covered up by even more bombs and flames.
Flamingdts - I admire you trying to reason with Doppel, but he is a simple, angry kid who consistently misunderstands what people say, and constantly misuses basic terms like "spin" and "straw man argument".
It's probably not worth your time, though I'm sure some forum viewers are getting something out of your points. Just don't let him turn the discussion into you personally so that you have to spend paragraphs talking about yourself. He likes to do that because he can't actually argue the topic - at all.
How are we hypocrits? Sure, some are, some always are nomatter what stance they take, but to say people disliking something obvious and making a petition about it to express many of the reasons for their dislike. Its not even an argument, it is fact, yet people liked to do nothing more then make conclusions out of straw man arguments, the endless "they want it 2d"s, the endless "up contrast, down gamma"s, the endless posts wich focus on bright colors in Diablo 1 & 2, even Blizzard participates by stating garbage as "conviniently they ignore the desert areas in D2".
What if i say D3 is more cartoony then the previous Diablo iterations? Its hard to deny that isn't it? Yet people actually manage trying to deny it. You can conclude and you can conclude. What people concluded in the petition was dead on, Blizzard didn't deny anything of it, the conclusion that "it will get darker", or "Blizzard knows what its doing" and so on, are based on nothing the presumtions.
I never heard anyone disliking what they saw say that this is what D3 will be like, without a doubt, but it is impossible to not conclude it does look the way it does as of now and some people prefer to tell Blizzard their concerns before it is too late. (wich according to Blizzes last statements, it already is too late so now we can do nothing more then hope for the best and arguably according to what we saw, it is very uncertain).
I am sad to say that this is a conclusion, you conclude that just because Blizzard was a trustable and respectable company (wich already can be argued about) it still is, i am sad to say, that even from a neutral standpoint, there is not a shred of evidence pointing towards Blizzard being trustable and respectable now and in the future. And this is the difference, i conclude the uncertainty, you conclude the certainty. Another difference is that the uncertainty (questioning Blizzards choices) is flamed on, while the certainty (like D3 is gonna be the best game ever, Blizzard ROXORZ) is applauded. Thats what i call the definition of hypocritical.
There is a difference between having a severe concern and complaining, the difference is that some people have a severe concern about where the game is headed, while others complain about people having a severe concern about where the game is headed. See the difference? Obviously after enough people complained, the ones that get complained about get sick of it and start complaining about the complainers that have severe concern about where the game is headed. Its a nonending circle of demise and it didn't start with people expressing their concerns.
If people have a concern about something, and that something stays unchanged, then why would the concern not stay unchanged? Blizzard didn't intelligebly adressed any of the concerns, they only conceided with them being right followed by a "we're not changing", well give us a fucking reason why not.
Comparing it to hello kitty or Barney, its to make a point, the point isn't that it looks like hello kitty or Barney, the point is that it undeniably shifted into that direction while every sensible person would expect them to be able to even more perfectly portray the elements that make it Diablo (with the help of new technologies and such). In that sense comparing it to Diablo is even more insulting cause as Blizzard stated "it changed into something fans would not expect from this franchise" and indeed, some people were actually honest and addressed this, while others seemed to fell from the sky how its possible to question this style to be that of Diablo. If you're truly nuetral, then you ignore the trolls (look above me and you know what i mean), regardless of what stance they take. And try to see it from the point of view of people that actually are a fan of Diablo (and not just a fan of one "elitists" element like "gameplay above graphics" or dumb shit like that), instead of "give the fuck all"s.
Lastly, Blizzard telling fans they don't know what they want, now thats insulting, whatever sort of Blizzard told that, fuck you. The biggest respect you can give someone is not being a loyalist to them. In that sense that sort of Blizzard likes to crap on those that actually respect it. The irony.
See what I mean? Let's analyze what he just wrote, shall we? And I'm not going to exaggerate - I'm going to really show you what he said Cliff's Notes version (Creep's Notes lol):
- He doesn't know that he doesn't use the term "straw man" correctly.
- He doesn't talk about the topic as much as he talks about how much he hates the way people argue with him.
- Even Blizzard has no argument and makes garbage statements.
- He doesn't know what "Cartoony" means.
- Suddenly YOU aren't allowed to make "conclusions" in your posts.
- You can't trust Blizzard! There is NO evidence!
- Anyone who disagrees with him is a hypocrite. Anyone who likes Blizzard or the Art Direction is a hypocrite.
- If you complain about a game and make a lot of noise other people aren't allowed to say anything to disagree with your complaints.
- He still doesn't realize Blizzard gave multiple reasons for staying with the current art direction.
- Using hyperbole to make a point, even though it actually makes your point moot in the end because it is beyond exaggerated, is OK to do...
- You are not truly neutral.
- Diablo changed and I don't like it.
- Blizzard pooed on us.
- Misuse of the term "irony".
Why do people even try to argue with this kid?
I have one question pertaining to the topic: What if,...no hear me out - what if D3 is taking the look of D1 and D2 and taking it to the next level? What if D3 is the next natural evolution of the franchise? Think about it.
Because the fact that they said it isn't changing doesn't change the fact people (dis)agree about the subject. Seriously, why am i even explaining this?
Because these people are retarded?
___________________________________________
When did this guy actually say these things? When the petition was only around 12,000?
The other fact is that what this guy has said enrages people even further than before. If you honestly dont think they wont change ANYTHING then I firmly still believe you are mistaken. That petition addresses not only colors, but numerous things. Perhaps he should have actually read it before speaking so blatantly and ignorantly that I almost puked several times while reading that garbage.
Until blizzard actually makes a real response addressing the petition or the colors/graphics/health orbs, ect, ect on there MAIN site. Then anything is still up in the air for debate.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you get personally attacked by letters through the internet its a good thing to always have a box of tissues and a band-aid around.
How are we hypocrits? Sure, some are, some always are nomatter what stance they take, but to say people disliking something obvious and making a petition about it to express many of the reasons for their dislike. Its not even an argument, it is fact, yet people liked to do nothing more then make conclusions out of straw man arguments, the endless "they want it 2d"s, the endless "up contrast, down gamma"s, the endless posts wich focus on bright colors in Diablo 1 & 2, even Blizzard participates by stating garbage as "conviniently they ignore the desert areas in D2".
What if i say D3 is more cartoony then the previous Diablo iterations? Its hard to deny that isn't it? Yet people actually manage trying to deny it. You can conclude and you can conclude. What people concluded in the petition was dead on, Blizzard didn't deny anything of it, the conclusion that "it will get darker", or "Blizzard knows what its doing" and so on, are based on nothing but presumtions.
I never heard anyone disliking what they saw say that this is what D3 will be like, without a doubt, but it is impossible to not conclude it does look the way it does as of now and some people prefer to tell Blizzard their concerns before it is too late. (wich according to Blizzes last statements, it already is too late so now we can do nothing more then hope for the best and arguably according to what we saw, it is very uncertain).
I am sad to say that this is a conclusion, you conclude that just because Blizzard was a trustable and respectable company (wich already can be argued about) it still is, i am sad to say, that even from a neutral standpoint, there is not a shred of evidence pointing towards Blizzard being trustable and respectable now and in the future. And this is the difference, i conclude the uncertainty, you conclude the certainty. Another difference is that the uncertainty (questioning Blizzards choices) is flamed on, while the certainty (like D3 is gonna be the best game ever, Blizzard ROXORZ) is applauded. Thats what i call the definition of hypocritical.
There is a difference between having a severe concern and complaining, the difference is that some people have a severe concern about where the game is headed, while others complain about people having a severe concern about where the game is headed. See the difference? Obviously after enough people complained, the ones that get complained about get sick of it and start complaining about the complainers that have severe concern about where the game is headed. Its a nonending circle of demise and it didn't start with people expressing their concerns.
If people have a concern about something, and that something stays unchanged, then why would the concern not stay unchanged? Blizzard didn't intelligebly adressed any of the concerns, they only conceided with them being right followed by a "we're not changing", well give us a fucking reason why not.
Comparing it to hello kitty or Barney, its to make a point, the point isn't that it looks like hello kitty or Barney, the point is that it undeniably shifted into that direction while every sensible person would expect them to be able to even more perfectly portray the elements that make it Diablo (with the help of new technologies and such). In that sense comparing it to Diablo is even more insulting cause as Blizzard stated "it changed into something fans would not expect from this franchise" and indeed, some people were actually honest and addressed this, while others seemed to fell from the sky how its possible to question this style to be that of Diablo. If you're truly nuetral, then you ignore the trolls (look above me and you know what i mean), regardless of what stance they take. And try to see it from the point of view of people that actually are a fan of Diablo (and not just a fan of one "elitists" element like "gameplay above graphics" or dumb shit like that), instead of "give the fuck all"s.
Lastly, Blizzard telling fans they don't know what they want, now thats insulting, whatever sort of Blizzard told that, fuck you. The biggest respect you can give someone is not being a loyalist to them. In that sense that sort of Blizzard likes to crap on those that actually respect it. The irony.
Well. That was a pretty throughout breakdown of my post. Nicely done. :thumbsup:
Now I'm gonna keep this short, so here goes.
Obviously, it would seem like we have a misuse and misunderstanding of words. You say that D3 is more cartoony, I say it is more clear and detailed.
Yes I may be a hypocrite for concluding the unconcludable, but I base my conclusions on at least 10 years of Blizzard's success. Not 20 minutes. If Blizzard failed to deliver a great game, I will speak up against it. However, they have not failed the audience for over 10 years. Each one of their products are yearly winners, they deliver each time. I would never conclude anything about D3 if the producers were EA, but luckily (for us), the producers are a long time respected company that has never failed to deliver. Although I try to stay neutral at times, I hate it when my favourite game company is trashed by their own fans, and that is based on something less than 20 minutes, not 10 years.
On to the Barney and Hello Kitty. It is nothing more than a Hyperbole and a desperate comparison IMO. I do stand a neutral point of view, although I object a few statements there and then, in no way would I ever take sides just for the sake of doing so. So far, both sides have gone from mature arguement to desperate arguement.
Now, from a Biased point of view that was for the petitioners. Yes, I would hate Blizzard if they gave me D3 with that sorta art design. And that is only if I'm bias. I don't think Blizzard knows what the fans want, and surely that can't read our minds.
However, I do not go for or against the petition, and have full confidence that Blizzard will deliver. Sure, maybe some of you feel that you're being flipped off by Blizzard, really how can Blizzard tell the fans what they want? Amazing thing is, whatever Blizzard is doing to their games, it has worked for over 10 years. Whatever decision Blizzard has made, it has worked for 10 years. How many middle fingers they've given to their fans, the fans took it in the end, for over 10 years. So maybe I should not be concluding so much if I stand in a neutral point of view. However, all neutral point of views look at facts, not fiction.
You can say I'm more like a judge in court. If the defendant and prosecutor (people for and against the petition) both offered good points, I listen. However, if one of these 2 offered more reliable and supported evidence. Then I will vote for that party.
Meh, so much for keeping things short :cool:
EDIT:
I have one question pertaining to the topic: What if,...no hear me out - what if D3 is taking the look of D1 and D2 and taking it to the next level? What if D3 is the next natural evolution of the franchise? Think about it.
Well that is what I've been saying and believing, glad you pointed that out. When things change, it changes, for the better and the worse. Now hopefully that doesn't mean I'm any less neutral.
PS: So much for making things even shorter....
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Yep, you're still going to buy the game.
There were plenty of good debates on both sides when the announcement was first made, but now it just turns into some sort of flamefest, and it's both sides to blame and neither one has a damn point to make anyways because all the good points have been made and due to the massive amount of keyboard sewage spewed out by the trolls it isn't worth it to repeat them.
That was a really long sentence.
Words I hate in Gaming Culture:
Epic
Hardcore
E-Sports
Yea, basically everything that could be said... has been said. Now it turns into a bunch of repetitious arguments and flaming. Both sides have gone overboard. Personally I think it hit the ceiling when Hello Kitty made it in there, and then to the otherside when they were trying to explain the green light.
I am in the gray area. I am neither for the changes, nor really against them. Basically I don't give a damn. What I don't like is people taking each side to the extreme. We can't really discuss anything new related to the graphical design until more information is revealed now.
But that won't stop people
I tried to stay out of the whole thing as much as possible, while I want grittier I don't want graphics overhaul. I'd prefer they choose different ambient lighting that fit. Some people will say that it's light reflecting off of blue stone, but I have a brick walled basement, and if I light a candle down there it doesn't make the whole room glow red.
Words I hate in Gaming Culture:
Epic
Hardcore
E-Sports
Like I have said in the other forum about this topic, ppl where begging for this game to come and now they have it they are still complaining about nonsense.
Fans were screaming for a sequel and blizzard delivered, thumbs up for Blizzard for sticking with what they presented! :rolleyes:
Nobody is denying, at least not me. D3 art has changed for the better, and has changed to tag along with technology, yet not going overboard so that D3 is available to as many people as possible.
However, its not the fact that people are denying it, its just a natural way of arguing. If someone calls you an idiot, you say you're not an idiot. If someone tells you your hair is bad, you say its not. On occasions, you get "I don't care", but human nature makes you deny what is accused.
Those that don't enjoy the new art style insult those who do, and bring on the most pathetic ways of arguing. Those who don't care/or do enjoy the new art style tells the petitioners to screw off.
As long as someone says Blizzard has disappointed us, it will bring on flame war. One only speaks for oneself, and no other. If posters speak for themselves and themselves only, there will be less arguement and flamiing.
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People had 8 years to think about Diablo III and obviously started fantasizing about the game and how it would be. and when blizzard came out and said here's the game 8 years later, it didnt match people's fantasies of the game.
sorta like fantasizing about jessica alba then getting jessica biel. They're both good looking, they're both Jessicas but they are both different peopel.
and while some people prefer Biel, alot of others like Alba better.
k I think I'm going off topic here.:confused:
what I wanna say is, if you stop comparing the game to what you expected it to be, you will start to appreciate it and like it for what it is so far.
Diablo really made its trade mark from being dark and gloomy and changing that is is changing the essence of diablo. now i do feel that the change from 2D to 3D had influenced a lot of the changes and i must say there are a lot of very cool intriguing aspects to diablo 3. but graphics and game play are the main things looked at. and if you screw them up you screw up the game. and as of now were can't determine the game play. so the only thing we can determine is the graphics which we really don't have enough info on.
but the info we do have on it is that the made it a relevant to the area, which is a forest. the "cave" looks like a ruin. so it should be called correctly. and ruins don't have green walls (i promise).
now i personally signed the petition because the information in there follows closely to what i believe should happen.
now weather blizzard changes the graphics i don't know but just because they announced that the aren't going to doesn't mean they won't, just means they don't feel that the gamers have enough information to change it which is correct but by the time they give enough information they will have screw them selves over.
(no what is after this isn't really relevant)
the people that made diablo 2 were fired(or quit not really sure on that part) but they were part of blizzard north which was shut down around 2 years after diablo 2 came out. (->now this is complete speculation->) but that is plenty of time for diablo 3 to have had content made, mostly graphics.
after they left the created flagship studios. which made hellgate London this game was a team effort between pingo and flagship studios. now they are creating a game called mythos. or were they said that it was going into hiatus(a pause). now this is because the people who were providing the servers for hellgate tried to claim hellgate the got into a large fight and now flagship studios is laying off workers.
(->Speculation->) now many people beleive that Blizzard had something to do with this.(you may wonder why) well this is because mythos was to be a free MMO and to be extremely close to diablo.
many sites including eurogamer have said that it could be bigger then WoW which because its free it would attract WoW players and blizzard would risk losing diablo fans to a game that stays dark in dungeons but has a light peaceful feeling to it in over world but is similar to diablo. now mythos was only in closed beta but was supposed to start open beta some time between august and September.
ok so i will probably be banned for this even though it is just my opinion(and im trying to get something that wasn't mentioned before that has evidence to back it up out there for people to make a decision off of)
~im gonna check back in a few days to see if im banned and to see what posts/comments were made on this~
I thought Diablo made its trademark from being an awesome Action RPG. I must have missed the part where "Dark and Gloomy" became a game genre. Sure the atmosphere of Diablo 1 and 2 made the game a little funner to play, but I doubt it added to it's overall gameplay. If Blizzard wanted to attract WoW fans to any game they would release another WoW Expansion (OMG?), or simply make Warcraft 4. Granted they are 2 different styles, but then so are WoW and D3.
I don't believe Blizzard has anything to do with Flagship studios. Why would they bother wasting any resources to take down a company that poses absolutely no threat to them? Mythos and Diablo are vastly different games and, judging even from the 20 min gameplay video and Blizzard past track record, Mythos was boring while Diablo 3 looks extremely fun (all pure specualtion for D3 of course).
Gamers have enough information? I hope to god that no game developer ever creates a game for the fans. It happens in anime all the time and you know what they call that? Fan service. The vast majority of the time fan service stuff is garbage simply because a developer tries to please everyone when its not possible. Blizzard, or Blizzard North, said that they create games that they would love to play and if other people want to play it... great! Game creation is an art and is subjective. What one person thinks is good another person might think it's garbage. The best thing the developers can ever do is create the game in their own image instead of the image of people who think they know how things should be.
I dunno if they game should be the way it is now, and I don't know if it should be the way the petitioners want it. All I know is I am probably going to end up playing it regardless, and it's not my decision to choose how one person creates their own peice of art. If I go to an art exhibit and I don't like a painting that was done by an artist. I don't tell him how I think it should look... I simply go on to the next painting.
About time we laid down our swords and headed to Atma's tavern for a cool drink and had a constructive look at D3.
Let's not all be sore losers.
Yes, but in that case you weren't emotionally attached to that collection of paintings. If you were, and you didn't say something, you wouldn't be true to yourself. An intelligent person who has emotional attachment expresses himself, which is the very nature of the painter who painted the piece that you are looking at. Believe it or not, but the better painters have underlying meaning hidden in their work which is a response to pertinent issues surrounding that artists' life. Perhaps this shortsightedness is due to the fact that you're not much an artist or art enthusiast. By no means should your tendencies mentioned above be norm in the world of art, or there would no longer be a reason for art.
plus i just said the art style is similar not exactly the same... which it would be because the lead artist is from World of Warcraft
I wish people would either
a) REALLY not come back.
or
Never SIGN UP in the first place.
It's time to welcome the other 80% of the color wheel to a Diablo game.
agreed. +2
This has been discussed.
It's 20 years after the events of D2. Of course the landscape is going to regrow and come back to it's former beauty. That's the contrast. The beauty of the land with the grisly undead.
It's time to welcome the other 80% of the color wheel to a Diablo game.
I can call you and the petitioners Hypocrites as well (I'm not saying the anti petitioners are not hypocrites though). I'm on a neutral spot, , so maybe I didn't make things clear enough, so its my fault. However, you honestly don't think that 100% of the forum posters here would give you the type of arguement you want right? Come on. If you said D3 is too cartoony, 10 guys are gonna jump at you and say its not. It may just be denying for some, but for starters, denying a statement is your first counter-arguement.
I'm gonna admit it like before. D3 does have WoW elements. But you know why you don't see me in flame wars? I don't jump to conclusions. Blizzard IS a trustable and very respectable company. This company is known for minimal to no screwups at all. They completely trashed SC: Ghost because they respected the community (a very very large percentage of the community dislike SC: Ghost being available to consoles only).
The fact is, many petitioners jump to conclusion and trashed Blizzard for a gameplay video that showed a very small section of an area of the Act. They deny the fact that Blizzard has yet to screw up any products they released. So when it comes to hypocrites, it goes both ways.
There is nothing here that will satisfy the petitioners nor the constant complaints. The forum is now literally trashed with flames and insults. Nothing is going to stop the complaints until the game itself is released. So why drop the bomb now?
As far as I know, the petitioners are not exactly the good boys around here (and neither are those against it). They have compared D3 to the likes of Barney and Hello Kitty. That is insulting even to me. I like to stay neutral, but what I really want to do is discuss something useful instead of having to post through bombs and flames just to answer a topic. And even if I managed to post, my post would probably be covered up by even more bombs and flames.
Blizzard
Valve
:thumbsup:
It's probably not worth your time, though I'm sure some forum viewers are getting something out of your points. Just don't let him turn the discussion into you personally so that you have to spend paragraphs talking about yourself. He likes to do that because he can't actually argue the topic - at all.
See what I mean? Let's analyze what he just wrote, shall we? And I'm not going to exaggerate - I'm going to really show you what he said Cliff's Notes version (Creep's Notes lol):
- He doesn't know that he doesn't use the term "straw man" correctly.
- He doesn't talk about the topic as much as he talks about how much he hates the way people argue with him.
- Even Blizzard has no argument and makes garbage statements.
- He doesn't know what "Cartoony" means.
- Suddenly YOU aren't allowed to make "conclusions" in your posts.
- You can't trust Blizzard! There is NO evidence!
- Anyone who disagrees with him is a hypocrite. Anyone who likes Blizzard or the Art Direction is a hypocrite.
- If you complain about a game and make a lot of noise other people aren't allowed to say anything to disagree with your complaints.
- He still doesn't realize Blizzard gave multiple reasons for staying with the current art direction.
- Using hyperbole to make a point, even though it actually makes your point moot in the end because it is beyond exaggerated, is OK to do...
- You are not truly neutral.
- Diablo changed and I don't like it.
- Blizzard pooed on us.
- Misuse of the term "irony".
Why do people even try to argue with this kid?
I have one question pertaining to the topic: What if,...no hear me out - what if D3 is taking the look of D1 and D2 and taking it to the next level? What if D3 is the next natural evolution of the franchise? Think about it.
Because these people are retarded?
___________________________________________
When did this guy actually say these things? When the petition was only around 12,000?
The other fact is that what this guy has said enrages people even further than before. If you honestly dont think they wont change ANYTHING then I firmly still believe you are mistaken. That petition addresses not only colors, but numerous things. Perhaps he should have actually read it before speaking so blatantly and ignorantly that I almost puked several times while reading that garbage.
Until blizzard actually makes a real response addressing the petition or the colors/graphics/health orbs, ect, ect on there MAIN site. Then anything is still up in the air for debate.
Well. That was a pretty throughout breakdown of my post. Nicely done. :thumbsup:
Now I'm gonna keep this short, so here goes.
Obviously, it would seem like we have a misuse and misunderstanding of words. You say that D3 is more cartoony, I say it is more clear and detailed.
Yes I may be a hypocrite for concluding the unconcludable, but I base my conclusions on at least 10 years of Blizzard's success. Not 20 minutes. If Blizzard failed to deliver a great game, I will speak up against it. However, they have not failed the audience for over 10 years. Each one of their products are yearly winners, they deliver each time. I would never conclude anything about D3 if the producers were EA, but luckily (for us), the producers are a long time respected company that has never failed to deliver. Although I try to stay neutral at times, I hate it when my favourite game company is trashed by their own fans, and that is based on something less than 20 minutes, not 10 years.
On to the Barney and Hello Kitty. It is nothing more than a Hyperbole and a desperate comparison IMO. I do stand a neutral point of view, although I object a few statements there and then, in no way would I ever take sides just for the sake of doing so. So far, both sides have gone from mature arguement to desperate arguement.
Now, from a Biased point of view that was for the petitioners. Yes, I would hate Blizzard if they gave me D3 with that sorta art design. And that is only if I'm bias. I don't think Blizzard knows what the fans want, and surely that can't read our minds.
However, I do not go for or against the petition, and have full confidence that Blizzard will deliver. Sure, maybe some of you feel that you're being flipped off by Blizzard, really how can Blizzard tell the fans what they want? Amazing thing is, whatever Blizzard is doing to their games, it has worked for over 10 years. Whatever decision Blizzard has made, it has worked for 10 years. How many middle fingers they've given to their fans, the fans took it in the end, for over 10 years. So maybe I should not be concluding so much if I stand in a neutral point of view. However, all neutral point of views look at facts, not fiction.
You can say I'm more like a judge in court. If the defendant and prosecutor (people for and against the petition) both offered good points, I listen. However, if one of these 2 offered more reliable and supported evidence. Then I will vote for that party.
Meh, so much for keeping things short :cool:
EDIT:
Well that is what I've been saying and believing, glad you pointed that out. When things change, it changes, for the better and the worse. Now hopefully that doesn't mean I'm any less neutral.
PS: So much for making things even shorter....
Blizzard
Valve
:thumbsup: