For some reason one of the moderators took offense to my post and deleted it without reason or notification along with all the feedback, so here we go again.
A world editor or some official modding tools please.
Let me start be saying this is a long post, but if your interested and have a good argument of why your for, or against a world editor or official modding tools for Diablo 3 then please read through this entirely and feel free to chip in.
I am a modder of Diablo 2 and created the multiplayer mod known as Hell Unleashed http://arimyth.planetdiablo.gamespy.com/hell.htm I am a strong support of the Diablo 2 modding community, most found at the Phrozen Keep http://phrozenkeep.planetdiablo.gamespy.com/ where many exciting D2 mods have been developed, such as Eastern Sun and Back to Hell Fire. I invested 2 years developing Hell Unleashed for D2, it was challenging and exciting, but greatly appreciated by the community that supported it.
I want to see this trend continue into Diablo 3. D2 was left very open ended and fairly user friendly to modding, but there were no official tools or support for it from Blizzard, so the modding fan base had to create many 3rd party tools on their own including a map editor. Although its been over 8 years since Diablo 2 was released, people are still creating plugins, modding tools and uncovering secrets within D2. As it stands now we are able to create monsters, maps, spells, skills, recipes, runewords, weapons, armor, items, import graphics, sounds and music, change text and dialogue, and re-invent the 7 existing classes. What we cannot do in Diablo 2 without great difficulty are add new classes, add or change quests mechanics and rewards, hirelings, add events or triggers and a few other hardcoded aspects of the game.
I have seen the arguments of why people are opposed to this.
1.) This isnt WC3, D2 doesnt need to be modded or have an editor
While D2 had no official tools, tools were developed and the D2 modding community is still growing today, so obviously a large fan base exists Lots of games have official editors or tools that arent RTS Titans Quest, Neverwinter Nights, most FPS games Even now the upcoming Sacred 2 hack n slash stated theyre developing a type of world/quest editor for the game that they plan to release sometime after the game hits the shelves.
2.) Mods and custom maps would be easily exploitable
Not true, Blizzard will simply not allow mods on battle.net for D3, just as they currently dont with D2 or if they did offer mods on battle.net, characters would obviously not be transferable from one mod to another, separate ladders. In my Hell Unleashed mod, HU characters were not even compatible with regular D2 or any other mods and vice versa due to so many changed mechanics and custom stuff. So it obviously would not be exploitable.
3.) Mods will divide the community and thin group play
I highly doubt D3 will ever suffer from a lack of players Besides, a lot of people move to mods or mod creation once they become bored of the game, thats my experience and at that point they either quit and move on to a different game or play or develop mods. If D2 modding would have not been possible , I would have quit a few months after LoD I enjoyed the original campaign, but eventually I found it very redundant, challenges and pointless. Finding loot by killing Baal for the 1000s time is not my idea of keeping things interesting. Modding helps to hold the community to a game longer where we can try out new characters, new maps, new bosses, new gear and new skills. Most people who grow bored of the game will go to mods or simply leave the game.
4.) Diablo maps are randomly generated, we dont need a map editor
Well its true the majority of maps in Diablo are randomly generated, there are many that are not. Memorable maps such as the cathedral, the throne room, the chaos sanctuary are not randomly generated and they are generally the more epic maps I enjoy both a mix of random dungeons and static dungeons. Hell Unleashed was prolly 75% random maps, 25% I designed fully be hand. Its a good balance, in static maps you can create more intelligent and strategic layout and have far more intelligent placement of traps, named enemies, champions, treasure, shrines, etc My static maps were always the most challenging and epic maps. Loot was still random, and trash mob placement was still always random. People who have played HU will easily remember my custom maps such as the Asylum of War, Castle of Destruction, Zakarum Fortress, Isolated Purgatory and the Vault of the Dead. Maps that would not have been possibly without a map editor that was release 4 years after D2 was released.
5.) Too many crappy mods will be produced, look at NWN
While its true there will be more crappy mods, there will also be more higher quality mods. A lot of people have a great vision but dont have the time and patience to root through layers of codes trying to unlock the more difficult areas of the game. People are busy with work, family, friends, school. Its hard to find the time to dedicate that much time to learning the complexity of modding a game and then creating the mod. I did both in D2 and Hell Unleashed took me countless hours with A LOT of learning and testing and troubleshooting to make things work properly. Some people might enjoy that but most dont have time for it so less mods will exsist in general and we will probably have less power and less capabilities that will take a long time to unlock.
So essentially, I want to see a world editor or atleast some kind of modding tools. Doesnt have to be at release, if Blizzard releases the game first and then maybe 6 months or a year or when an expansion pack comes out take time to develop tools or a world editor, this would allow us to play Diablo 3 as blizzard designed it and enjoy their creation and focus on the game before the modding community gets eager about their own projects.
Blizzard creates the highest quality of games, but after WC3 came out I realized they could also create the highest quality of editor as well. WC3 had an incredibly powerful editor with almost limitless possibilities and it was incredibly user friendly, far superior to any other editor I have ever used, so I know the quality of a Diablo 3 world editor or some kind of tools and map editor would be amazing. They can do it better than anyone. Sure the modding community might figure it out in a few years and develop their own tools and editor as they did for D2, but it will never be as good or powerful as officially released ones.
Bottom line, D3 is an advancement over D2 and I want to see the same advancements go into modding, I dont want the modding community to be forgotten or ignored in D3 because that would just suck and our excitement for the game will be diminished greatly. I want to see improvements in this area, more user friendly, more power. So whether its a world editor, some official modding tools or simply a continuation of D2 style modding with more custom features, user friendly and more powerful Then Ill be happy. I want to create my own maps or areas, random/static, monsters, items, weapons, armor, skills, spells, abilities, quests, triggers, events, hirelings, classes, recipes, runewords, add in custom music, graphics and sounds. Similar to D2 but a step beyond and more user friendly.
Anyway, thats my longpost, if you took the time to read it, please post some feedback. Thanks. I hope Blizzard will take the time to read and consider this.
You thread wasn't deleted. At least not to my knowledge. At best it would have been merged. Along with a whole host of others I would imagine. I really do wish people did a little searching before making accusations of deletion.
As there is already A thread on this subject, I shall now lock this thread.
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-Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only, truth.
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A world editor or some official modding tools please.
Let me start be saying this is a long post, but if your interested and have a good argument of why your for, or against a world editor or official modding tools for Diablo 3 then please read through this entirely and feel free to chip in.
I am a modder of Diablo 2 and created the multiplayer mod known as Hell Unleashed http://arimyth.planetdiablo.gamespy.com/hell.htm I am a strong support of the Diablo 2 modding community, most found at the Phrozen Keep http://phrozenkeep.planetdiablo.gamespy.com/ where many exciting D2 mods have been developed, such as Eastern Sun and Back to Hell Fire. I invested 2 years developing Hell Unleashed for D2, it was challenging and exciting, but greatly appreciated by the community that supported it.
I want to see this trend continue into Diablo 3. D2 was left very open ended and fairly user friendly to modding, but there were no official tools or support for it from Blizzard, so the modding fan base had to create many 3rd party tools on their own including a map editor. Although its been over 8 years since Diablo 2 was released, people are still creating plugins, modding tools and uncovering secrets within D2. As it stands now we are able to create monsters, maps, spells, skills, recipes, runewords, weapons, armor, items, import graphics, sounds and music, change text and dialogue, and re-invent the 7 existing classes. What we cannot do in Diablo 2 without great difficulty are add new classes, add or change quests mechanics and rewards, hirelings, add events or triggers and a few other hardcoded aspects of the game.
I have seen the arguments of why people are opposed to this.
1.) This isnt WC3, D2 doesnt need to be modded or have an editor
While D2 had no official tools, tools were developed and the D2 modding community is still growing today, so obviously a large fan base exists Lots of games have official editors or tools that arent RTS Titans Quest, Neverwinter Nights, most FPS games Even now the upcoming Sacred 2 hack n slash stated theyre developing a type of world/quest editor for the game that they plan to release sometime after the game hits the shelves.
2.) Mods and custom maps would be easily exploitable
Not true, Blizzard will simply not allow mods on battle.net for D3, just as they currently dont with D2 or if they did offer mods on battle.net, characters would obviously not be transferable from one mod to another, separate ladders. In my Hell Unleashed mod, HU characters were not even compatible with regular D2 or any other mods and vice versa due to so many changed mechanics and custom stuff. So it obviously would not be exploitable.
3.) Mods will divide the community and thin group play
I highly doubt D3 will ever suffer from a lack of players Besides, a lot of people move to mods or mod creation once they become bored of the game, thats my experience and at that point they either quit and move on to a different game or play or develop mods. If D2 modding would have not been possible , I would have quit a few months after LoD I enjoyed the original campaign, but eventually I found it very redundant, challenges and pointless. Finding loot by killing Baal for the 1000s time is not my idea of keeping things interesting. Modding helps to hold the community to a game longer where we can try out new characters, new maps, new bosses, new gear and new skills. Most people who grow bored of the game will go to mods or simply leave the game.
4.) Diablo maps are randomly generated, we dont need a map editor
Well its true the majority of maps in Diablo are randomly generated, there are many that are not. Memorable maps such as the cathedral, the throne room, the chaos sanctuary are not randomly generated and they are generally the more epic maps I enjoy both a mix of random dungeons and static dungeons. Hell Unleashed was prolly 75% random maps, 25% I designed fully be hand. Its a good balance, in static maps you can create more intelligent and strategic layout and have far more intelligent placement of traps, named enemies, champions, treasure, shrines, etc My static maps were always the most challenging and epic maps. Loot was still random, and trash mob placement was still always random. People who have played HU will easily remember my custom maps such as the Asylum of War, Castle of Destruction, Zakarum Fortress, Isolated Purgatory and the Vault of the Dead. Maps that would not have been possibly without a map editor that was release 4 years after D2 was released.
5.) Too many crappy mods will be produced, look at NWN
While its true there will be more crappy mods, there will also be more higher quality mods. A lot of people have a great vision but dont have the time and patience to root through layers of codes trying to unlock the more difficult areas of the game. People are busy with work, family, friends, school. Its hard to find the time to dedicate that much time to learning the complexity of modding a game and then creating the mod. I did both in D2 and Hell Unleashed took me countless hours with A LOT of learning and testing and troubleshooting to make things work properly. Some people might enjoy that but most dont have time for it so less mods will exsist in general and we will probably have less power and less capabilities that will take a long time to unlock.
So essentially, I want to see a world editor or atleast some kind of modding tools. Doesnt have to be at release, if Blizzard releases the game first and then maybe 6 months or a year or when an expansion pack comes out take time to develop tools or a world editor, this would allow us to play Diablo 3 as blizzard designed it and enjoy their creation and focus on the game before the modding community gets eager about their own projects.
Blizzard creates the highest quality of games, but after WC3 came out I realized they could also create the highest quality of editor as well. WC3 had an incredibly powerful editor with almost limitless possibilities and it was incredibly user friendly, far superior to any other editor I have ever used, so I know the quality of a Diablo 3 world editor or some kind of tools and map editor would be amazing. They can do it better than anyone. Sure the modding community might figure it out in a few years and develop their own tools and editor as they did for D2, but it will never be as good or powerful as officially released ones.
Bottom line, D3 is an advancement over D2 and I want to see the same advancements go into modding, I dont want the modding community to be forgotten or ignored in D3 because that would just suck and our excitement for the game will be diminished greatly. I want to see improvements in this area, more user friendly, more power. So whether its a world editor, some official modding tools or simply a continuation of D2 style modding with more custom features, user friendly and more powerful Then Ill be happy. I want to create my own maps or areas, random/static, monsters, items, weapons, armor, skills, spells, abilities, quests, triggers, events, hirelings, classes, recipes, runewords, add in custom music, graphics and sounds. Similar to D2 but a step beyond and more user friendly.
Anyway, thats my longpost, if you took the time to read it, please post some feedback. Thanks. I hope Blizzard will take the time to read and consider this.
Thank you.
Soulmancer, aka Terry: Creator of Diablo 2: Hell Unleashed
http://arimyth.planetdiablo.gamespy.com/hell.htm
"to the worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish."
1. I like modding, it would be great to create your own world, imagine the possibility.
2. Hell no, Diablo is not RTS or The Sims. Modding will ruined this awesome game.
3. I don't care about it, as long someone make a nude skin for all female characters, I am happy.
I believe they are part of this thread.
http://www.diablofans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=406
As there is already A thread on this subject, I shall now lock this thread.