Yeah but I always thought of this change to be an ordinary change from 2D to 3D.
Those melee skills from Diablo 2 are pre-programmed to always hit 1 person because the game is 2D and will run more smoothly that way. However Diablo 3 is in fact 3D and will have a more advanced 3D combat system. Meaning if the enemy is in close enough to get sliced, he will be sliced.
Standard meele attacks still seem to only hit one foe at a time though.
Its a total design choice. Look at Titanquest, their game is '3D' yet a majority of the melee skills are single target, there were single target skills and AoE skills just like Diablo, there was no collateral/adjacent damage a la Age of Conan. and alot of their melee skills were based off regular attacks.
On a side note, I REALLY hope Blizzard does Not implement that system (attacks based off autoattack), it was absolutely terrible. If you do not know what I am referring too here is an example:
They would have attacks where on the 4th swing something cool would happen, or the more you attack the more damage you do but it dies down if you dont kill fast enough. My least favorite were the ones where it had a XX% chance to proc off of autoattack. I think it would increase the fun factor if you made all offensive attacks activated and tolerable if only some of the defensive skills are passive.
I would like to feel I have control over the tactics of my character and not a hidden dice rolling in the background.
Its a total design choice. Look at Titanquest, their game is '3D' yet a majority of the melee skills are single target, there were single target skills and AoE skills just like Diablo, there was no collateral/adjacent damage a la Age of Conan. and alot of their melee skills were based off regular attacks.
On a side note, I REALLY hope Blizzard does Not implement that system (attacks based off autoattack), it was absolutely terrible.
Yeah....notice how Titan Quest wasn't even as good as Diablo 1. Titan quest had no point for 3D graphics other than looks. Age of Conan?
1.) Age of Conan is an mmo played from a "behind the back" camera view. Diablo is isometric and is not an mmo.
2.) Don't try to pin this onto Age of Conan. AoC is hardly the first game to use 3D combat physics. (Devil May Cry, God of War, Oblivion, Plus 1,000,000 others.)
Blizzard made no mention or showed no signs of this combat system you speak of.
*Edit
I think its really because a 3D world allows for a larger range of motions than a 2D one. A 3D character can swing his weapon in real time and hit multiple approaching opponents in real time, its more realisic and practical. That doesnt mean the move is meant to be an AoE skill. It just works like a real swing and with a real swing, anyone who is in the way will be hit.
The trailer is designed to show of all the bang your gonna get for your buck... We only saw 9 skills, I don't know exactly how many there are in diablo 2 but I'm pretty sure there's more than 9... PER TREE.... let alone in total
Why would you want to show off an auto attack that hits just a little bit harder...? It makes logical sense we haven't seen single attacks yet, it does NOT mean they aren't in game.
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"If we're actually making the game worse with no other reason than to be different from WoW, then it's a bad choice." - Jay Wilson (D3 lead designer)
Yeah....notice how Titan Quest wasn't even as good as Diablo 1. Titan quest had no point for 3D graphics other than looks. Age of Conan?
1.) Age of Conan is an mmo played from a "behind the back" camera view. Diablo is isometric and is not an mmo.
2.) Don't try to pin this onto Age of Conan. AoC is hardly the first game to use 3D combat physics. (Devil May Cry, God of War, Oblivion, Plus 1,000,000 others.)
Blizzard made no mention or showed no signs of this combat system you speak of.
I know they showed no signs, im saying i hope they do not do it. Also i know other games, AoC was the last piece of crap i played with a multi-hit system. I know its not the same game style.
My point was that its not an evolution of graphics change, but a design choice, specially when diablo 3 is still an isometric game at heart. Blizzard will choose whether or not to use single target attacks or use AoE attacks only.
It appears they are leaning towards majority AoE attacks. Will single target attacks be gone? Doubt it.All skills haven't been shown yet.
Do I wish they would? Yes, even if its simply just to reduce stress on my body, let alone add more mayhem to the game.
*Edit* just saw your edit...You kind of prove my point, if it was a '3D' only thing then their normal swings would hit multiple baddies, which they dont. Design choice.
*Edit* just saw your edit...You kind of prove my point, if it was a '3D' only thing then their normal swings would hit multiple baddies, which they dont. Design choice.
I didn't say it was a mandatory thing. What I said was its a natural progression made when developers move a game from 2D to 3D. Cleave has a realistic arching system to it, if you're in front of the arch, you get sliced. Melee attacks should naturally be able to hit adjacent opponents. Diablo 2 even tried to simulate this with the Zeal and Jab skills.
Good debate. Since we are both on the boards, let me ask you this question:
Do you feel as though the current AoE we saw hits too many monsters at once, or not enough?
Its hard to gauge how these shown skill scale but it appears that the aoe might be a little too large. I like the fact that its aoe but I also wouldn't mind it being very tactical. Kind of how like fire wall or that fire walk skill is more tactical than the final Ice orb spell that just murders an entire room.
I didn't say it was a mandatory thing. What I said was its a natural progression made when developers move a game from 2D to 3D. Cleave has a realistic arching system to it, if you're in front of the arch, you get sliced. Melee attacks should naturally be able to hit adjacent opponents. Diablo 2 even tried to simulate this with the Zeal and Jab skills.
But what about stabbing... You keep talking about just swinging a weapon, and how it should arch, but what if I wanted to run up to a single target and do more massive damage by stabbing them in the throat? I wouldn't hit any other targets except to push them away. Assassin's Creed would be a good example of this kind of mentality.
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"The certain prospect of death could sweeten every life with a precious and fragrant drop of levity, and now you
strange apothecary souls have turned it into an ill-tasting drop of poison that makes the whole of life repulsive." -Nietzsche
Good debate. Since we are both on the boards, let me ask you this question:
Do you feel as though the current AoE we saw hits too many monsters at once, or not enough?
Its hard to gauge how these shown skill scale but it appears that the aoe might be a little too large. I like the fact that its aoe but I also wouldn't mind it being very tactical. Kind of how like fire wall or that fire walk skill is more tactical than the final Ice orb spell that just murders an entire room.
Alot of that would depend on how big the mobs are in this game. They would have to proportion the skill sizes to combat whatever size mobs they intend to create, but from what I saw, im not too worried. The proportions looked right as he did fight at least 40 ghouls rushing him simultaneously, as soon as he walked through the dungeon door.
They would have attacks where on the 4th swing something cool would happen, or the more you attack the more damage you do but it dies down if you dont kill fast enough. My least favorite were the ones where it had a XX% chance to proc off of autoattack. I think it would increase the fun factor if you made all offensive attacks activated and tolerable if only some of the defensive skills are passive.
I would like to feel I have control over the tactics of my character and not a hidden dice rolling in the background.
Pfft. Those are interesting because they force you to calibrate when are you doing and what. Speaking of chance stuff, Diablo II had those. Evade, Stun, chance-to-block, w/e. I personally like them because there are only so many active skills that I can max, and I am more inclined to buff my char passively after that so I don't have to go with quickslotting. My current TQ char has like 25% dodge or something and it REALLY helps against some bad guys.
Also, AoE attacks vs singular attacks has nothing, NOTHING to do with 2D and 3D. In fact, 2D deals much better with large heaps of monsters.
But what about stabbing... You keep talking about just swinging a weapon, and how it should arch, but what if I wanted to run up to a single target and do more massive damage by stabbing them in the throat? I wouldn't hit any other targets except to push them away. Assassin's Creed would be a good example of this kind of mentality.
You can still do that. Well, you could never stab enemies in the throat, but I get your point. Hammer of the ancients for example. This skill is designed to do massive damage to one targeted opponent. Anyone in the immediate surroundings will be hurt from the shockwave, but only slightly. They won't recieve that massive damage done to the enemy you specifically targeted. (It has to be that way because this move would otherwise be pointless because of cleave or vice-versa.)
Charge as well, was used to single-out and attack specific targets to do massive damage, but the same physics apply. "you get in the way, you get hit too, even if I didn't target you." again its not real AoE. Its a 3D melee system that hits people who were in the position to get hit. The move wont phase-through or skip over opponents just because you didn't specifically target them, even though they were in the line of fire. That doesnt mean some moves wont be single-target only though.
*Edit
Go play Zelda:tp and lock-on to one goblin standing inside a group of goblins and use your jump attack (a skill meant to do massive damage to one person.) If the other goblins are too close they will get hit too. Even though you specifically targeted only one goblin, all were hit for being too close. 3-dimensional physics.
For mandatory single-target hits, they would have to program the move to negate these physics and to always do damage to 1 person, no matter what. This may be used for really big-hit skills that wouldn't be fair if they could hit adjacents at all.
um, im just pointing out that back in the good ol 1.09 days of D2, in the cow lvl, there were herders for the cattle, sometimes u could get atleast 3/4 of the lvl in 1 giant pack... i remember watching my maphack at the time, and see this big dense pack of cows... it was easily over 50 at times... so yea.. D2 could handle over 50 monsters on the screen at one time.
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Its a total design choice. Look at Titanquest, their game is '3D' yet a majority of the melee skills are single target, there were single target skills and AoE skills just like Diablo, there was no collateral/adjacent damage a la Age of Conan. and alot of their melee skills were based off regular attacks.
On a side note, I REALLY hope Blizzard does Not implement that system (attacks based off autoattack), it was absolutely terrible. If you do not know what I am referring too here is an example:
They would have attacks where on the 4th swing something cool would happen, or the more you attack the more damage you do but it dies down if you dont kill fast enough. My least favorite were the ones where it had a XX% chance to proc off of autoattack. I think it would increase the fun factor if you made all offensive attacks activated and tolerable if only some of the defensive skills are passive.
I would like to feel I have control over the tactics of my character and not a hidden dice rolling in the background.
Yeah....notice how Titan Quest wasn't even as good as Diablo 1. Titan quest had no point for 3D graphics other than looks. Age of Conan?
1.) Age of Conan is an mmo played from a "behind the back" camera view. Diablo is isometric and is not an mmo.
2.) Don't try to pin this onto Age of Conan. AoC is hardly the first game to use 3D combat physics. (Devil May Cry, God of War, Oblivion, Plus 1,000,000 others.)
Blizzard made no mention or showed no signs of this combat system you speak of.
*Edit
I think its really because a 3D world allows for a larger range of motions than a 2D one. A 3D character can swing his weapon in real time and hit multiple approaching opponents in real time, its more realisic and practical. That doesnt mean the move is meant to be an AoE skill. It just works like a real swing and with a real swing, anyone who is in the way will be hit.
Why would you want to show off an auto attack that hits just a little bit harder...? It makes logical sense we haven't seen single attacks yet, it does NOT mean they aren't in game.
I know they showed no signs, im saying i hope they do not do it. Also i know other games, AoC was the last piece of crap i played with a multi-hit system. I know its not the same game style.
My point was that its not an evolution of graphics change, but a design choice, specially when diablo 3 is still an isometric game at heart. Blizzard will choose whether or not to use single target attacks or use AoE attacks only.
It appears they are leaning towards majority AoE attacks. Will single target attacks be gone? Doubt it.All skills haven't been shown yet.
Do I wish they would? Yes, even if its simply just to reduce stress on my body, let alone add more mayhem to the game.
*Edit* just saw your edit...You kind of prove my point, if it was a '3D' only thing then their normal swings would hit multiple baddies, which they dont. Design choice.
Do you feel as though the current AoE we saw hits too many monsters at once, or not enough?
Its hard to gauge how these shown skill scale but it appears that the aoe might be a little too large. I like the fact that its aoe but I also wouldn't mind it being very tactical. Kind of how like fire wall or that fire walk skill is more tactical than the final Ice orb spell that just murders an entire room.
But what about stabbing... You keep talking about just swinging a weapon, and how it should arch, but what if I wanted to run up to a single target and do more massive damage by stabbing them in the throat? I wouldn't hit any other targets except to push them away. Assassin's Creed would be a good example of this kind of mentality.
strange apothecary souls have turned it into an ill-tasting drop of poison that makes the whole of life repulsive." -Nietzsche
Alot of that would depend on how big the mobs are in this game. They would have to proportion the skill sizes to combat whatever size mobs they intend to create, but from what I saw, im not too worried. The proportions looked right as he did fight at least 40 ghouls rushing him simultaneously, as soon as he walked through the dungeon door.
Also, AoE attacks vs singular attacks has nothing, NOTHING to do with 2D and 3D. In fact, 2D deals much better with large heaps of monsters.
You can still do that. Well, you could never stab enemies in the throat, but I get your point. Hammer of the ancients for example. This skill is designed to do massive damage to one targeted opponent. Anyone in the immediate surroundings will be hurt from the shockwave, but only slightly. They won't recieve that massive damage done to the enemy you specifically targeted. (It has to be that way because this move would otherwise be pointless because of cleave or vice-versa.)
Charge as well, was used to single-out and attack specific targets to do massive damage, but the same physics apply. "you get in the way, you get hit too, even if I didn't target you." again its not real AoE. Its a 3D melee system that hits people who were in the position to get hit. The move wont phase-through or skip over opponents just because you didn't specifically target them, even though they were in the line of fire. That doesnt mean some moves wont be single-target only though.
*Edit
Go play Zelda:tp and lock-on to one goblin standing inside a group of goblins and use your jump attack (a skill meant to do massive damage to one person.) If the other goblins are too close they will get hit too. Even though you specifically targeted only one goblin, all were hit for being too close. 3-dimensional physics.
For mandatory single-target hits, they would have to program the move to negate these physics and to always do damage to 1 person, no matter what. This may be used for really big-hit skills that wouldn't be fair if they could hit adjacents at all.