No but I don't want to see this topic closed like the other one was, and if it devolves into arguing back and forth between PK and Anti-PK then it will certainly be closed.
Sorry if I sound rude, I just don't want this thread to get closed like the other.
Then quell your pretentious and condescending manner. My original post was not off-topic, and there was no problem unti you started playing moderator. If you have a problem with with my post, then feel free to send a private message to me, or report my post to a real moderator. Thank you.
Then quell your pretentious and condescending manner. My original post was not off-topic, and there was no problem unti you started playing moderator. If you have a problem with with my post, then feel free to send a private message to me, or report my post to a real moderator. Thank you.
<sigh> I didn't talk to you in a condescending manner, I was just asking nicely lets not get off topic. This topics main purpose is just to inform people of what Bashiok said, not to flame Bashiok or to start a PK vs Anti-PK argument. If you feel it's necessary then by all means go ahead, but I'm asking you humbly and nicely PLEASE don't, or the thread will get closed. It happened before.
<sigh> I didn't talk to you in a condescending manner, I was just asking nicely lets not get off topic.
Don't you see the irony in this?
I wasn't off-topic until you started playing pseudo-moderator.
This topics main purpose is just to inform people of what Bashiok said
If that were true, then the thread wouldn't be open for discussion; so, until the thread is closed by a real moderator, I'll continue to discuss the thread's topic.
not to flame Bashiok
I never flamed Bashiok. Carebear is slang for a player who exclusively prefers cooperative and/or PVE gameplay, and I don't have a problem with carebears per se.
or to start a PK vs Anti-PK argument.
*gasp* An argument!
"Discussion is encouraged - blatant arguing is not If you're going to get heated about an issue, be sure to remain polite and civil.If it turns into a bashing war or flame fest, the topic will be locked and those involved may be subject to punishment. Keep it clean and respectful of those involved, please."
So far, all I've done here is state my opinion. The person who is going to get this thread closed is you.
"Discussion is encouraged - blatant arguing is not If you're going to get heated about an issue, be sure to remain polite and civil.If it turns into a bashing war or flame fest, the topic will be locked and those involved may be subject to punishment. Keep it clean and respectful of those involved, please."
So far, all I've done here is state my opinion. The person who is going to get this thread closed is you.
/facepalm
I sighed because you were misunderstanding me.
I don't know what you want me to say. I said I was sorry if I sounded rude, I asked nicely and humbly. I give up.
When you express your opinion in such a hostile way by calling people carebears, it's going to make others mad and start a argument, that's how it started in the last thread.
I didn't mean for this to become me trying to play "pseudo-mod" I was just asking nicely that we don't let it erupt into another flame fest.
Anyway I'm done posting in this thread if you want to express your opinion however you wish, feel free to do so, you have the right. (Yes, I know I'm stating the obvious)
I dont know what it is... but every time I see one of these threads on PK being dropped I get all misty eyed because I think of how Blizzard is ruining the unique PvP style of an epic game which helped to make it so great. They are doing this all because they have been influenced way too much by the 9 year old - 15 year old majority that play WoW (their #1 game) and would rather see parts of that game implimented in a completely different and unique game.
All these threads are the same as well.... their are 3 camps basically.
Camp1: Anti PK people who just want to "play the game" which is a rather Ironic statement because in the first two installments of this game PK/PvP was such a large part and so thoroughly implimented in the game that to engage in PvP/PK was literally part of "playing the game". It was part of playing the game even in a PvE sense because you often had to battle for your right to PvE in a certain area and winner took all.
Camp 2: Pro PK people who truely understand that, hey man, PK is just part of THIS game. This game isn't WoW or any other RPG that impliments PvP/PK in some other way.. this is Diablo and this style of PvP/PK helps to define this games uniqueness.. and that should never be comprimised. Us pro PKs don't have to necissarily be good at PvP/PK (even though I like to think im good.. very good =) to LOVE it and what it did to set Diablo apart from other games.
Camp 3: Ambiguouse PK people who don't really care and/or don't really remember how the previouse diablos were or what the end result of D3 will be.. they just wanna play any game thats thrown at them.
I hope for the integrity of this game that BLizzard doesn't cave to the anti-pk side because no matter how annoyed some people are, or what the majority says.. this is diablo, always has been, always should be.
P.S.
This is all a moot point ebcause Blizzard has already stated that they are all of a sudden against the PvP/PK system that they themselves created and used to promote.
Hopefully with all the changes they are making with D3, the whiners crying about not being able to PK will find D3 not their game...GOOD. Go play something else (can't think of what else since most games actually require some skills, and we all know you losers can't handle FPS games).
Less morons and losers in D3, the better. I like how this game is shaping up. Bye, good riddance, cya, adios, enjoy playing D2 in 5 years lol
Hopefully with all the changes they are making with D3, the whiners crying about not being able to PK will find D3 not their game...GOOD. Go play something else (can't think of what else since most games actually require some skills, and we all know you losers can't handle FPS games).
Less morons and losers in D3, the better. I like how this game is shaping up. Bye, good riddance, cya, adios, enjoy playing D2 in 5 years lol
Thats right... lets make diablo like every other game out there because you could never handle the heat of PK.
The Diablo PvP system was never broken (before hacking, obviously hacking destroyed a good thing), so why fix it. Oh thats right, because while your saying the people who want to keep PK are crying.. its in fact the crying of people like you over multiple years of getting owned in game that forced Blizzards hand to change a good thing in the first place.
Gogo generic game pvp for the protection of weak players.
All they would need to do is since you make your own game, just toggle whether or not PvP is allowed in your game...
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The comet carries a dark omen in its fiery being and it calls the heroes of Sanctuary To defend the mortal world against the rising powers of the Burning Hells – And even the failing luminaries of the High Heavens itself."
Thats right... lets make diablo like every other game out there because you could never handle the heat of PK.
The Diablo PvP system was never broken (before hacking, obviously hacking destroyed a good thing), so why fix it. Oh thats right, because while your saying the people who want to keep PK are crying.. its in fact the crying of people like you over multiple years of getting owned in game that forced Blizzards hand to change a good thing in the first place.
Gogo generic game pvp for the protection of weak players.
It's not about being "weak" or my ability to "handle the heat", it's about whether or not a style of play that is inherently divisive, inappropriate, and inconsiderate of others should be promoted in a game. I wouldn't be surprised if most anti-PK players could rush through a cookie cutter PvP build and handle themselves in PvP. The point is, they don't want to and shouldn't HAVE to just to be able to play the game that Blizzard has provided.
In the other thread, I was told that all my arguments were invalid because of two things. 1) People's fun being ruined is invalid because to remove the PK system would ruin the fun of PKers. 2) PK should be in the game because the removal of PK would necessitate a radical overhaul of the PvP system. Although I have gone over these points before, I will attempt to tackle them again, and hopefully these relevant sentences will be included in any quotes people take from this post.
For number one, PKing is designed to ruin the fun of other players. You may not do it just to ruin their fun or "grief" them, but that is the result. That is what it is designed to do. Having fun by causing others misery is not a constructive style of play to promote. So when you say my argument is invalid because the PKers fun would be ruined if it's removed, that's kind of my point. I am saying that the fun they are having is destructive and harmful to the community, and should not be promoted.
For number two, that is once again my pont. The PvP system NEEDS a radical change to allow players of all types to have fun playing on the realms. There are ways that PKers can still have fun, like the suggestion that many people have come forward with of seperate realms for PvP-enabled and non-PvP. Unless your style of play requires killing people who don't even want to fight back, this should be no problem. As for how it would "split the community", I disagree. There are plenty of people who don't play D2 on the realms or at least in public games because they dislike the PvP system. If a system like this were implemented, these people would all have places to play in public. Thus, while the community would be split, the net size of the comunity would be larger than it would be otherwise, mitigating the effect.
I don't really have high hopes for this post, since most of my posts in the last thread were either ignored completely or selectively quoted to cut out the relevant parts of my post. I tried to keep it a little more brief than my multi-pager last time, so who knows? Oh yeah, and I was wondering if I could request that everyone could keep the insults and personal attacks to a minimum? It's what got the other thread closed, so if you really care about this discussion, it's not a constructive way to proceed. I'm not trying to backseat moderate here, I just feel strongly about this topic and would hate to see this thread end like so many other PK threads: locked.
Good. Grief ganking sucks and the guys that do it are tards. Go play the game and quick picking on people lower level than you.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Petitions are bogus and invalid, when anyone can sign up multiple times using fake names. The end result is that valid concerns fail to get heard, when drowned out like this.
I mean as long as the player finished you off then you don't lose XP so I don't see a problem with PK. TPPK should go though; thats just annoying, you don't even have the chance to fight back.
I mean as long as the player finished you off then you don't lose XP so I don't see a problem with PK.
The problem is that it's annoying, and disrupting other players should not be encouraged, period.
Let it be toggled on a game by game basis and be done with it. If no one turns it on, then that's proof that the PK crowd is a tiny minority anyway; even more reason not to cater to them at everyone else's expense.
The problem is that it's annoying, and disrupting other players should not be encouraged, period.
Let it be toggled on a game by game basis and be done with it. If no one turns it on, then that's proof that the PK crowd is a tiny minority anyway; even more reason not to cater to them at everyone else's expense.
Yea its somewhat annoying to be running around and have someone hostile you; but then isn't it fun to pwn their face when they were so bent on their victory? At least in a normal PK you have the ability to win. I'm not trying to start a war, I'm just saying there's good and bad to it.
Alright, Nef. I understant you feel that people are ignoring your posts, but I think you are ignoring mine, because I have adressed all these arguments already on other threads. By all means, continue to argue, but please rebutt the rebuttles rather than just restating the original argument, which is what you seem to be doing every single time. But I think we might be on the verge of making some progress here.
Quote from "Neferim" »
It's not about being "weak" or my ability to "handle the heat", it's about whether or not a style of play that is inherently divisive, inappropriate, and inconsiderate of others should be promoted in a game. I wouldn't be surprised if most anti-PK players could rush through a cookie cutter PvP build and handle themselves in PvP. The point is, they don't want to and shouldn't HAVE to just to be able to play the game that Blizzard has provided.
Actually, if they are playing online, they DO have to play the game that Blizzard has provided. By your logic, I could say that I should never have to face any monsters if I don't care about PvE. But guess what, I have always accepted the fact that I need to level my character against monsters before I can PvP. And nobody is forcing anyone to "rush through a cookie cutter PvP". This is not even the game that Blizzard made. When in D2 have you ever been forced to make a PvP build or rush through the game?
Quote from "Neferim" »
For number one, PKing is designed to ruin the fun of other players. You may not do it just to ruin their fun or "grief" them, but that is the result. That is what it is designed to do.
No, Blizzard would never add something to the game just to ruin people's fun. That would make no sense at all.
Quote from "Neferim" »
Having fun by causing others misery is not a constructive style of play to promote. So when you say my argument is invalid because the PKers fun would be ruined if it's removed, that's kind of my point. I am saying that the fun they are having is destructive and harmful to the community, and should not be promoted.
OK so once again, you are saying that because you don't like getting PK'd, it must be harmful to theg game. You are just wording it differently. I don't think that it is harmful and destrictive to the community... hell I was never even a PKer and I think it added a whole lot to the game. Saying that it causes you misery is not an argument, because anybody can say that any aspect of the game causes them misery.
Quote from "Neferim" »
For number two, that is once again my pont. The PvP system NEEDS a radical change to allow players of all types to have fun playing on the realms.
Where to begin where to begin...
- The game needs radical change? Because you didn't have fun playing on the realms? Well if that is the case, why did you play on the realms?
- radically changing a franchise because it is not suited for everyone's playing style is, is the biggest mistake any game maker can make. When you try to please everyone, you get a big pile of diluted shit of a game.
- The D2 team took the route of PvP... of having very few restrictions on player interaction. It is a game that delves into depths of PvP, not only in the form of killing eachother but all interaction. WoW takes the PvE route because that is their focus. Both games are so successful because they take their focus to the extreme. Meet in the middle and you get a game that cannot hold the interests of hardcore gamers of either orientation for very long.
Quote from "Neferim" »
There are ways that PKers can still have fun, like the suggestion that many people have come forward with of seperate realms for PvP-enabled and non-PvP. Unless your style of play requires killing people who don't even want to fight back, this should be no problem. As for how it would "split the community", I disagree. There are plenty of people who don't play D2 on the realms or at least in public games because they dislike the PvP system. If a system like this were implemented, these people would all have places to play in public. Thus, while the community would be split, the net size of the comunity would be larger than it would be otherwise, mitigating the effect.
Finally something that I agree with you on (for different reasons). I think this would be the only way of catering to the role-playing crowd without destroying PvP. If the PvE crowd must have their way and do away with PK, then they can have their own realm which is striktly PvE. However the PvP realm MUST include the deep PvP from D2. In this realm everyone should be fair game to everyone, having the same PvP system as D2.
This means that PvP can still be taken to the extreme, and anyone who doesn't want it can have their little role playing experience elsewhere. For those who are still unsatisfied and want the option to play a watered down, happy-go-lucky PvP, they will lose out and probably continue to protest until Blizzard caves (which they very well might, because Blizzard is getting soft). But as stated in my previous argument, if there is PvP it should be taken to the extreme. If you want something in between, you will lose out in this system. And that's the way a great game should be. Casual players should not be catered to unless it's a casual game.
It was pretty much HEATEDLY discussed here. It was locked afterwards because people were being basically called "idiots" or "carebears (soft/weak)" from either side PK issue. I stated my own opinions in there. I don't have to say any more. I posted the link for the sake of trying to prevent re-posting of topics that get flamed or trolled very easily.
Problem is, pvp won't ever happen besides the rare occasion of who has the bigger dick syndrom. So its pretty much over for D3 imo in terms of lasting. It will die out like WC3 did and Titan Quest very quickly.
As far as I'm concerned, the lasting power for D2 was based upon the search for loot, trying new character permutations, and co-op-ing/rushing.
Not PvP.
Personally, they could have gotten rid of PvP in D2 and I wouldn't have batted an eye.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It's time to welcome the other 80% of the color wheel to a Diablo game.
No but I don't want to see this topic closed like the other one was, and if it devolves into arguing back and forth between PK and Anti-PK then it will certainly be closed.
Sorry if I sound rude, I just don't want this thread to get closed like the other.
Then quell your pretentious and condescending manner. My original post was not off-topic, and there was no problem unti you started playing moderator. If you have a problem with with my post, then feel free to send a private message to me, or report my post to a real moderator. Thank you.
<sigh> I didn't talk to you in a condescending manner, I was just asking nicely lets not get off topic. This topics main purpose is just to inform people of what Bashiok said, not to flame Bashiok or to start a PK vs Anti-PK argument. If you feel it's necessary then by all means go ahead, but I'm asking you humbly and nicely PLEASE don't, or the thread will get closed. It happened before.
Don't you see the irony in this?
I wasn't off-topic until you started playing pseudo-moderator.
If that were true, then the thread wouldn't be open for discussion; so, until the thread is closed by a real moderator, I'll continue to discuss the thread's topic.
I never flamed Bashiok. Carebear is slang for a player who exclusively prefers cooperative and/or PVE gameplay, and I don't have a problem with carebears per se.
*gasp* An argument!
"Discussion is encouraged - blatant arguing is not
If you're going to get heated about an issue, be sure to remain polite and civil. If it turns into a bashing war or flame fest, the topic will be locked and those involved may be subject to punishment. Keep it clean and respectful of those involved, please."
So far, all I've done here is state my opinion. The person who is going to get this thread closed is you.
/facepalm
I sighed because you were misunderstanding me.
I don't know what you want me to say. I said I was sorry if I sounded rude, I asked nicely and humbly. I give up.
When you express your opinion in such a hostile way by calling people carebears, it's going to make others mad and start a argument, that's how it started in the last thread.
I didn't mean for this to become me trying to play "pseudo-mod" I was just asking nicely that we don't let it erupt into another flame fest.
Anyway I'm done posting in this thread if you want to express your opinion however you wish, feel free to do so, you have the right. (Yes, I know I'm stating the obvious)
There are laws against that in place for a reason, too.
You've said some pretty stupid, dishonest things, but this sure does shine as your pivotal moment.
Cheers,
SmashBoy (was labelled a PKer on MUDs before you were born)
All these threads are the same as well.... their are 3 camps basically.
Camp1: Anti PK people who just want to "play the game" which is a rather Ironic statement because in the first two installments of this game PK/PvP was such a large part and so thoroughly implimented in the game that to engage in PvP/PK was literally part of "playing the game". It was part of playing the game even in a PvE sense because you often had to battle for your right to PvE in a certain area and winner took all.
Camp 2: Pro PK people who truely understand that, hey man, PK is just part of THIS game. This game isn't WoW or any other RPG that impliments PvP/PK in some other way.. this is Diablo and this style of PvP/PK helps to define this games uniqueness.. and that should never be comprimised. Us pro PKs don't have to necissarily be good at PvP/PK (even though I like to think im good.. very good =) to LOVE it and what it did to set Diablo apart from other games.
Camp 3: Ambiguouse PK people who don't really care and/or don't really remember how the previouse diablos were or what the end result of D3 will be.. they just wanna play any game thats thrown at them.
I hope for the integrity of this game that BLizzard doesn't cave to the anti-pk side because no matter how annoyed some people are, or what the majority says.. this is diablo, always has been, always should be.
P.S.
This is all a moot point ebcause Blizzard has already stated that they are all of a sudden against the PvP/PK system that they themselves created and used to promote.
http://www.bingegamer.net/index.php/2008/an-open-letter-to-diablo-iii-fanboys
So true...
Less morons and losers in D3, the better. I like how this game is shaping up. Bye, good riddance, cya, adios, enjoy playing D2 in 5 years lol
Thats right... lets make diablo like every other game out there because you could never handle the heat of PK.
The Diablo PvP system was never broken (before hacking, obviously hacking destroyed a good thing), so why fix it. Oh thats right, because while your saying the people who want to keep PK are crying.. its in fact the crying of people like you over multiple years of getting owned in game that forced Blizzards hand to change a good thing in the first place.
Gogo generic game pvp for the protection of weak players.
http://www.bingegamer.net/index.php/2008/an-open-letter-to-diablo-iii-fanboys
So true...
To defend the mortal world against the rising powers of the Burning Hells –
And even the failing luminaries of the High Heavens itself."
- Excerpt from the Prophecies of the Final Day
It's not about being "weak" or my ability to "handle the heat", it's about whether or not a style of play that is inherently divisive, inappropriate, and inconsiderate of others should be promoted in a game. I wouldn't be surprised if most anti-PK players could rush through a cookie cutter PvP build and handle themselves in PvP. The point is, they don't want to and shouldn't HAVE to just to be able to play the game that Blizzard has provided.
In the other thread, I was told that all my arguments were invalid because of two things. 1) People's fun being ruined is invalid because to remove the PK system would ruin the fun of PKers. 2) PK should be in the game because the removal of PK would necessitate a radical overhaul of the PvP system. Although I have gone over these points before, I will attempt to tackle them again, and hopefully these relevant sentences will be included in any quotes people take from this post.
For number one, PKing is designed to ruin the fun of other players. You may not do it just to ruin their fun or "grief" them, but that is the result. That is what it is designed to do. Having fun by causing others misery is not a constructive style of play to promote. So when you say my argument is invalid because the PKers fun would be ruined if it's removed, that's kind of my point. I am saying that the fun they are having is destructive and harmful to the community, and should not be promoted.
For number two, that is once again my pont. The PvP system NEEDS a radical change to allow players of all types to have fun playing on the realms. There are ways that PKers can still have fun, like the suggestion that many people have come forward with of seperate realms for PvP-enabled and non-PvP. Unless your style of play requires killing people who don't even want to fight back, this should be no problem. As for how it would "split the community", I disagree. There are plenty of people who don't play D2 on the realms or at least in public games because they dislike the PvP system. If a system like this were implemented, these people would all have places to play in public. Thus, while the community would be split, the net size of the comunity would be larger than it would be otherwise, mitigating the effect.
I don't really have high hopes for this post, since most of my posts in the last thread were either ignored completely or selectively quoted to cut out the relevant parts of my post. I tried to keep it a little more brief than my multi-pager last time, so who knows? Oh yeah, and I was wondering if I could request that everyone could keep the insults and personal attacks to a minimum? It's what got the other thread closed, so if you really care about this discussion, it's not a constructive way to proceed. I'm not trying to backseat moderate here, I just feel strongly about this topic and would hate to see this thread end like so many other PK threads: locked.
Good. Grief ganking sucks and the guys that do it are tards. Go play the game and quick picking on people lower level than you.
The problem is that it's annoying, and disrupting other players should not be encouraged, period.
Let it be toggled on a game by game basis and be done with it. If no one turns it on, then that's proof that the PK crowd is a tiny minority anyway; even more reason not to cater to them at everyone else's expense.
Actually, if they are playing online, they DO have to play the game that Blizzard has provided. By your logic, I could say that I should never have to face any monsters if I don't care about PvE. But guess what, I have always accepted the fact that I need to level my character against monsters before I can PvP. And nobody is forcing anyone to "rush through a cookie cutter PvP". This is not even the game that Blizzard made. When in D2 have you ever been forced to make a PvP build or rush through the game?
No, Blizzard would never add something to the game just to ruin people's fun. That would make no sense at all.
OK so once again, you are saying that because you don't like getting PK'd, it must be harmful to theg game. You are just wording it differently. I don't think that it is harmful and destrictive to the community... hell I was never even a PKer and I think it added a whole lot to the game. Saying that it causes you misery is not an argument, because anybody can say that any aspect of the game causes them misery.
Where to begin where to begin...
- The game needs radical change? Because you didn't have fun playing on the realms? Well if that is the case, why did you play on the realms?
- radically changing a franchise because it is not suited for everyone's playing style is, is the biggest mistake any game maker can make. When you try to please everyone, you get a big pile of diluted shit of a game.
- The D2 team took the route of PvP... of having very few restrictions on player interaction. It is a game that delves into depths of PvP, not only in the form of killing eachother but all interaction. WoW takes the PvE route because that is their focus. Both games are so successful because they take their focus to the extreme. Meet in the middle and you get a game that cannot hold the interests of hardcore gamers of either orientation for very long.
Finally something that I agree with you on (for different reasons). I think this would be the only way of catering to the role-playing crowd without destroying PvP. If the PvE crowd must have their way and do away with PK, then they can have their own realm which is striktly PvE. However the PvP realm MUST include the deep PvP from D2. In this realm everyone should be fair game to everyone, having the same PvP system as D2.
This means that PvP can still be taken to the extreme, and anyone who doesn't want it can have their little role playing experience elsewhere. For those who are still unsatisfied and want the option to play a watered down, happy-go-lucky PvP, they will lose out and probably continue to protest until Blizzard caves (which they very well might, because Blizzard is getting soft). But as stated in my previous argument, if there is PvP it should be taken to the extreme. If you want something in between, you will lose out in this system. And that's the way a great game should be. Casual players should not be catered to unless it's a casual game.
It was pretty much HEATEDLY discussed here. It was locked afterwards because people were being basically called "idiots" or "carebears (soft/weak)" from either side PK issue. I stated my own opinions in there. I don't have to say any more. I posted the link for the sake of trying to prevent re-posting of topics that get flamed or trolled very easily.
As far as I'm concerned, the lasting power for D2 was based upon the search for loot, trying new character permutations, and co-op-ing/rushing.
Not PvP.
Personally, they could have gotten rid of PvP in D2 and I wouldn't have batted an eye.
It's time to welcome the other 80% of the color wheel to a Diablo game.
Its a known fact that the MAIN reason people farmed for loot so damn much in D2 was to make their char better for PVP.
http://www.bingegamer.net/index.php/2008/an-open-letter-to-diablo-iii-fanboys
So true...
Known fact?
By whom?
What records do you have of this?
Unless you can provide charts/graphs or actual data, your argument is purely speculative.
The fact remains is that the community is split. Some people love playing against others, and some people simply detest the idea.
It's time to welcome the other 80% of the color wheel to a Diablo game.