uhh i dont understand? .... i never said the currency would be items to NPC/merchants, it would still be gold of course.
but between player to player it should be items.
example: why would i trade my Bonesnap to someone for 200,000 gold when that will just allow me to buy a potion, lame weapon, or portal from a merch.
I see what you are saying, and we agree, there's just some confusion in communication.
I think if someone wants to trade gold for items (player to player), they can. In fact, I think it should be common, because gold would serve a function. Just that function wouldn't be buying items from NPC's.
And look back on the last page and see who posted that shit about NPC's offering services.
nzkobc could you just elaborate and what system you find would adequately fit the game?
because at first i thought you supported my arguement that just eliminating dupes entirely, adding many many more items, eliminating mules, and making gold serve more of a purpose.
but now i dont exactly comprehend what your stance is.
I see what you are saying, and we agree, there's just some confusion in communication.
I think if someone wants to trade gold for items (player to player), they can. In fact, I think it should be common, because gold would serve a function. Just that function wouldn't be buying items from NPC's.
And look back on the last page and see who posted that shit about NPC's offering services.
yes but doing what you just suggested brings up questions:
1) how does one put an exact price in gold on an item (especially with the influx of new items that diablo3 will introduce)
2) and how do you honestly believe that everyone will consider merchant/npc services equal to that of the Item you traded (especially when that item will be Harder to come by, given, again, that there is an influx of new items introduced)
magefist for ------> "x"amount of gold -----> poses a problem to land on a specific amount, given the fact that Services from npcs might not be needed by the one trading the magefist, or doesnt agree that the services are worth that of the item.
getting an entire community to apply by these methods into a global consesus is impossible. flat out impossible.
having an open trade system where the 2 individuals trading can compromise cooperatively IS possible. because it relies on only 2 people, not an entire communities consensus on what the price of magefists should be in "x" amount of gold.
nzkobc could you just elaborate and what system you find would adequately fit the game?
because at first i thought you supported my arguement that just eliminating dupes entirely, adding many many more items, eliminating mules, and making gold serve more of a purpose.
but now i dont exactly comprehend what your stance is.
We agree, almost completely. At least on what needs to be done. I think we just see it working out differently.
Duping = Bad
More items = Good
Eliminating mules = Great
Making Gold Serve a purpose = AWESOME.
I think were we differ is :
- The side effects of gold being more valuable. -
I believe that if gold becomes more valuable, people could, and would use it in trades. And I also think there is nothing wrong with that.
yes but doing what you just suggested brings up questions:
1) how does one put an exact price in gold on an item (especially with the influx of new items that diablo3 will introduce)
magefist for ------> specific amount of gold (poses a problem to land on a specific amount given the fact that Services from npcs might not be needed by the one trading the magefist, or doesnt agree that the services are worth that of the item)
Ok, I think you are misunderstanding me.
The prices would be set between the people trading. If someone doesn't want to trade for gold, they don't have to. It would be a free market. The players decide the prices.
I believe that if gold becomes more valuable, people could, and would use it in trades. And I also think there is nothing wrong with that.
There is most certainly nothing wrong with that. and seems Legit in a perfect world.... but having 100% of diablo3 users agree on 1 specific amount of gold on every item is impossible.
and having a built-in system of pricing by blizzard (negating the fact of how annoying that long that would take for them to develop) would never have 100% agree either.
ill put it bluntly:
if i wanted a specific charm that someone had and had an soj (the only item the other guy wanted) i would trade it. Because its an agreement of two players.
i wouldnt care if according to others i could have gotten 3 hrs or whatnot for it...I got what i needed and so did the other player.
on the contrary: if i was told that my soj would get a set price of 40,000,000 gold i would not do it...because the chances of me finding that exact charm for the exact price of gold (even though every item could never be specifically priced as a global consesus) would be Very slim.
The prices would be set between the people trading. If someone doesn't want to trade for gold, they don't have to. It would be a free market. The players decide the prices.
than you ARE agreeing with everything im saying, because that implies exactly what ive been pushing and doesnt add any further concerns.
you CAN already trade for gold amounts determined by the 2 people trading in diablo2 ....you are calling for no further changes than my current proposal which is
- elimination of dupes - elimination of mules - addition of many many more items - make gold more useful for things; i.e. upgrading your stash size
than you ARE agreeing with everything im saying, because that implies exactly what ive been pushing and doesnt add any further concerns.
you CAN already trade for gold amounts determined by the 2 people trading in diablo2 ....you are calling for no further changes than my current proposal which is
- elimination of dupes - elimination of mules - addition of many many more items - make gold more useful for things; i.e. upgrading your stash size
Awesome, we solved the economic crisis that could have been in diablo III.
I liked when you could gamble uniques before LOD. If there was a fair chance to get really good items from gamble with a lot of money maybe people would start to trade items for money.
We can, but I'm a terrible writer. And from what i've seen, you aren't great either(taking into account that we had about a page worth of us under understanding each other).
I'm completely against BoP because D3 won't be like MMORPGs. We won't have every class in the party during boss kills so the item gets used. Hell, with the way drops sound like they're going, not a lottery, BoP would be even worse off.
I'm all for BoE, under one condition. D3 needs to have a respec system because imagine having all those awesome items bound to you, and then... a patch hits making a bunch of your old skills seemingly useless compared to other skills. In D2 a reroll wasn't so bad because items weren't bound.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The gaming public now has focus on Diablo again, and with it comes the modern-age of trolling and jackassery."
I like the BOE idea since it would keep the economy from going to shit as in D2 but it would need a counterbalance so all the nice items are forever impossible to trade for cause everyone is wearing it. A good balance i propose would be to use gold to unbind the equipment so it would place monetary and trade value on the item. That way gold wouldn't be pointless and it might actually become a real bargening chip for the overall game.
For instance: P1-" I want that mace of attrition," P2-"Ok it takes 20000G to unbind,"
You put the gold and the item in their respective trade slots, P2 gets the gold the item is unbound and traded to P1.
Just a thought.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Soon comes the day when all shall be free,
Even you, even me.
Soon comes the day all shall die,
Surely you but never I. We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
We ran to the sounds of thunder,
We dance among the lightening bolts
And tore the world asunder
I like the BOE idea since it would keep the economy from going to shit as in D2 but it would need a counterbalance so all the nice items are forever impossible to trade for cause everyone is wearing it. A good balance i propose would be to use gold to unbind the equipment so it would place monetary and trade value on the item. That way gold wouldn't be pointless and it might actually become a real bargening chip for the overall game.
For instance: P1-" I want that mace of attrition," P2-"Ok it takes 20000G to unbind,"
You put the gold and the item in their respective trade slots, P2 gets the gold the item is unbound and traded to P1.
Just a thought.
That is an interesting idea for using gold.
Respectively, do you think your example of 20k would be somewhat difficult to obtain that amount, or 20k like in D2 where it was the sell price of one rare?
Maybe they could even split BoE to be a system like you mentioned where some could be unbound for a price to say Charsi. Maybe other "priceless" items (I just read your post in another thread) would actually be bound to your soul (I know... WoW reference) and you couldn't pay to unbind them.
I suppose unbindable items at a cost doesn't warrant a need for respecs, but I'd still like to see them.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The gaming public now has focus on Diablo again, and with it comes the modern-age of trolling and jackassery."
Disclaimer : Please do not come into this thread to flame or make incessant claims that this will not be Diablo at all with these new systems. Do not claim it is a copy of World of Warcraft just because of this idea. Many games to this day borrow ideas from others. There are no "original" games anymore, only original concepts. Even Diablo 1 and 2 were worlds of difference when D2 added new things and even then, the "hardcore" fans would whine that it wasn't "Diablo."
If you really did play Diablo 2 over B.net at all then you know the economy sucked because of the myriad of uniques everyone had. Even I had four mules packed with high-end runes and gear and I had one mule carrying specifically Windforces, Eaglehorns, Stormshields, and Grandfathers.
When a game's item, like in Diablo 2, never had to be destroyed or sold because there was no reason to, then the economy will blow. If you can just keep muling or stashing or trading HIGH-END uniques over and over again, even after using them, then it becomes Diablo 2 in terms of trading / economy all over again.
Gold has no value in Diablo 2 whatsoever, only to repair your gear. When I used to frequent the trade channels and I hear, "40 SoJs for a .08 Windforce!! WHISPER ME NOW!!" it became quite clear that the economy went to crap.
Blizzard has to, and I strongly emphasize this because then it will be Diablo 2's economy again, implement some sort of way to stop the influx and retainment of high-end uniques to be able to be traded over and over again. And I believe a BoP (for certain universal items, like maybe a +20 attribute amulet ^_^) would help deter the economy from going to crap.
Now, with the Bind on Equip system, one would still be able to trade high-end uniques but once it is equipped, it becomes yours forever and cannot be traded. This will at least let a spellcaster who picks up a Mace +2 to sell to a warrior class without problems. I'm not saying that this will stop all items from becoming currency (hello, SoJs and runes) but it will at least stop the economy from going to crap.
Haha a minor note - this isn't Baldur's Gate. There are no "+" items. Anyway I think Diablo II's economy is just fine. Then again it is very easy to get uniques because you fight bosses over and over.
Respectively, do you think your example of 20k would be somewhat difficult to obtain that amount, or 20k like in D2 where it was the sell price of one rare?
Maybe they could even split BoE to be a system like you mentioned where some could be unbound for a price to say Charsi. Maybe other "priceless" items (I just read your post in another thread) would actually be bound to your soul (I know... WoW reference) and you couldn't pay to unbind them.
I suppose unbindable items at a cost doesn't warrant a need for respecs, but I'd still like to see them.
I imagine the 20K would be a little bit more difficult to obtain than in D2 but not to a point where its some ginormous amount as it would be in WoW. And yea I think that certain items shouldn't be unbindable since this it keep up an aspect of rarity amongst items, and a chance to have someone say "Thats a sick ass sword I've never seen or heard of it before how do you get it," as oppose to "How much you want for it?" by motivating another character to complete a specific event you kinda jumpstart someone elses desire to play the game by giving them a goal.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Soon comes the day when all shall be free,
Even you, even me.
Soon comes the day all shall die,
Surely you but never I. We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
We ran to the sounds of thunder,
We dance among the lightening bolts
And tore the world asunder
BoE and Bop should be the last failsafe switch if nothing else works (they are negative in every aspect except their purpose) and i am sure they can think of something that keeps the gold valuable, maybe a whole new system which could rock
What are some of the negatives, since you agree that it would accomplish its purpose.
Quote from "akse" »
I liked when you could gamble uniques before LOD. If there was a fair chance to get really good items from gamble with a lot of money maybe people would start to trade items for money.
I said that in an earlier post that when you had the ability to gamble rares/uniques pre LOD people did use gold. However I wouldn't want the ability to gamble every unique in the game.
I think Blizz could take the time to create more unique type items from time to time. Maybe they could make some rare drops that say were limited to 1000 or something and just make a new one every once and a while. Meaning that Bow A has 1000. After the 1000th is found its done. Blizz then generates a new weapon (design might not matter because that would add costs) Bow B that has its own set of stats etc.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The gaming public now has focus on Diablo again, and with it comes the modern-age of trolling and jackassery."
I think Blizz could take the time to create more unique type items from time to time. Maybe they could make some rare drops that say were limited to 1000 or something and just make a new one every once and a while. Meaning that Bow A has 1000. After the 1000th is found its done. Blizz then generates a new weapon (design might not matter because that would add costs) Bow B that has its own set of stats etc.
I like this at a certain cap of existing rare drops so there isn't a nigma like item on every character. However this still leaves the issue of worthless gold unanswered.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Soon comes the day when all shall be free,
Even you, even me.
Soon comes the day all shall die,
Surely you but never I. We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
We ran to the sounds of thunder,
We dance among the lightening bolts
And tore the world asunder
I think Blizz could take the time to create more unique type items from time to time. Maybe they could make some rare drops that say were limited to 1000 or something and just make a new one every once and a while. Meaning that Bow A has 1000. After the 1000th is found its done. Blizz then generates a new weapon (design might not matter because that would add costs) Bow B that has its own set of stats etc.
I like the idea of limited drops like an item so rare their are only 10K of them and once they are found they BoP, because the item will be numbered and you WILL want to keep it.
It gives the player something to play for, but to make every item change like you suggested I just don't see how that could work.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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I see what you are saying, and we agree, there's just some confusion in communication.
I think if someone wants to trade gold for items (player to player), they can. In fact, I think it should be common, because gold would serve a function. Just that function wouldn't be buying items from NPC's.
And look back on the last page and see who posted that shit about NPC's offering services.
because at first i thought you supported my arguement that just eliminating dupes entirely, adding many many more items, eliminating mules, and making gold serve more of a purpose.
but now i dont exactly comprehend what your stance is.
Sign for a Darker Art Direction in the dungeons/caves/etc.
www.myspace.com/mariocamillo
www.youtube.com/mariospeedwagon
yes but doing what you just suggested brings up questions:
1) how does one put an exact price in gold on an item (especially with the influx of new items that diablo3 will introduce)
2) and how do you honestly believe that everyone will consider merchant/npc services equal to that of the Item you traded (especially when that item will be Harder to come by, given, again, that there is an influx of new items introduced)
magefist for ------> "x"amount of gold -----> poses a problem to land on a specific amount, given the fact that Services from npcs might not be needed by the one trading the magefist, or doesnt agree that the services are worth that of the item.
getting an entire community to apply by these methods into a global consesus is impossible. flat out impossible.
having an open trade system where the 2 individuals trading can compromise cooperatively IS possible. because it relies on only 2 people, not an entire communities consensus on what the price of magefists should be in "x" amount of gold.
Sign for a Darker Art Direction in the dungeons/caves/etc.
www.myspace.com/mariocamillo
www.youtube.com/mariospeedwagon
We agree, almost completely. At least on what needs to be done. I think we just see it working out differently.
Duping = Bad
More items = Good
Eliminating mules = Great
Making Gold Serve a purpose = AWESOME.
I think were we differ is :
- The side effects of gold being more valuable. -
I believe that if gold becomes more valuable, people could, and would use it in trades. And I also think there is nothing wrong with that.
Ok, I think you are misunderstanding me.
The prices would be set between the people trading. If someone doesn't want to trade for gold, they don't have to. It would be a free market. The players decide the prices.
There is most certainly nothing wrong with that. and seems Legit in a perfect world.... but having 100% of diablo3 users agree on 1 specific amount of gold on every item is impossible.
and having a built-in system of pricing by blizzard (negating the fact of how annoying that long that would take for them to develop) would never have 100% agree either.
ill put it bluntly:
if i wanted a specific charm that someone had and had an soj (the only item the other guy wanted) i would trade it. Because its an agreement of two players.
i wouldnt care if according to others i could have gotten 3 hrs or whatnot for it...I got what i needed and so did the other player.
on the contrary: if i was told that my soj would get a set price of 40,000,000 gold i would not do it...because the chances of me finding that exact charm for the exact price of gold (even though every item could never be specifically priced as a global consesus) would be Very slim.
Sign for a Darker Art Direction in the dungeons/caves/etc.
www.myspace.com/mariocamillo
www.youtube.com/mariospeedwagon
than you ARE agreeing with everything im saying, because that implies exactly what ive been pushing and doesnt add any further concerns.
you CAN already trade for gold amounts determined by the 2 people trading in diablo2
....you are calling for no further changes than my current proposal which is
- elimination of dupes
- elimination of mules
- addition of many many more items
- make gold more useful for things; i.e. upgrading your stash size
Sign for a Darker Art Direction in the dungeons/caves/etc.
www.myspace.com/mariocamillo
www.youtube.com/mariospeedwagon
Awesome, we solved the economic crisis that could have been in diablo III.
lol....so now what?
wanna get a little freaky with each other?
or
write up a legitamate proposal to blizzard?
Sign for a Darker Art Direction in the dungeons/caves/etc.
www.myspace.com/mariocamillo
www.youtube.com/mariospeedwagon
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
We can, but I'm a terrible writer. And from what i've seen, you aren't great either(taking into account that we had about a page worth of us under understanding each other).
I'm all for BoE, under one condition. D3 needs to have a respec system because imagine having all those awesome items bound to you, and then... a patch hits making a bunch of your old skills seemingly useless compared to other skills. In D2 a reroll wasn't so bad because items weren't bound.
Bashiok - Blizzard Poster
For instance: P1-" I want that mace of attrition," P2-"Ok it takes 20000G to unbind,"
You put the gold and the item in their respective trade slots, P2 gets the gold the item is unbound and traded to P1.
Just a thought.
Even you, even me.
Soon comes the day all shall die,
Surely you but never I.
We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
We ran to the sounds of thunder,
We dance among the lightening bolts
And tore the world asunder
That is an interesting idea for using gold.
Respectively, do you think your example of 20k would be somewhat difficult to obtain that amount, or 20k like in D2 where it was the sell price of one rare?
Maybe they could even split BoE to be a system like you mentioned where some could be unbound for a price to say Charsi. Maybe other "priceless" items (I just read your post in another thread) would actually be bound to your soul (I know... WoW reference) and you couldn't pay to unbind them.
I suppose unbindable items at a cost doesn't warrant a need for respecs, but I'd still like to see them.
Bashiok - Blizzard Poster
Haha a minor note - this isn't Baldur's Gate. There are no "+" items. Anyway I think Diablo II's economy is just fine. Then again it is very easy to get uniques because you fight bosses over and over.
Even you, even me.
Soon comes the day all shall die,
Surely you but never I.
We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
We ran to the sounds of thunder,
We dance among the lightening bolts
And tore the world asunder
What are some of the negatives, since you agree that it would accomplish its purpose.
I said that in an earlier post that when you had the ability to gamble rares/uniques pre LOD people did use gold. However I wouldn't want the ability to gamble every unique in the game.
Bashiok - Blizzard Poster
Even you, even me.
Soon comes the day all shall die,
Surely you but never I.
We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
We ran to the sounds of thunder,
We dance among the lightening bolts
And tore the world asunder
It gives the player something to play for, but to make every item change like you suggested I just don't see how that could work.