Let me try and explain this clearly. Why would anyone, want their items to go down in value? You are proposing that items should go down in value because it can simply be sold. That is bad business.
"BoE is only used to make some items have a fake value because the developers want the item to drop on a regular rate, but still being rarer than an other item dropping at the same rate. Now, why would YOU want that."
By the way, this actually doesn't make sense, grammatically or intuitively. I have provided a link to the definition of rarity, something you clearly have no idea what it means.
I think you don't understand obviously. If an item dropping at a rate of 0.005% is better than another item dropping at the rate of 0.005%. Developer will most likely want to make the better item drop less often, doing so will most likely become unplayable for player as items get better because the items drop rate would be so low that nothing would drop. BoE was then introduced to add an artificial value to items because once the item is binded, it is out of the economy.
BoE is NOT necessary in a game where items drop more, ie: more monsters die faster, because the drop formula is rolled often so even if drop rates are low, it's still reasonable.
Now explain me how the idea of supply and demand doesn't apply without BoE, because it does apply. If you say it doesn't then you obviously never played ladder in Diablo 2. Supply and demand does greatly affect the economy and the cost of items.
Like I stated, BoE is only used by developers to add an artificial value to items because they can't just keep lowering the drop rate, it would become just unplayable because nothing would drop, so they keep the drop rate reasonable and add BoE. Since lots of items drop in Diablo 3, more than other games. then the developers can remove BoE and the game still works.
BoE only limit players. The economy supply/demand still apply without it. Looks like you never played a game without it so maybe you just don't know it does work.
In Diablo 2, with no BoE, the items were never destroyed and stayed in circulation forever. That is why items became currency (SoJs and runes).
If BoE was implemented, the items you equip cannot enter the circulation of the economy because it is untradable, thus the value of the item does not drop, but stays relatively the same even when more items are found.
By the way, how do you know Diablo 3 drops more items than other games? Is this another one of your outlandish claims with no evidence backing it up? I wonder if this question will be dismissed when you have no way of retorting, just like you did many other times.
There is a free game out called Corum Online. It implemented a system that had items that were bound to your account.
This allowed you to swap between all of your characters on your account via a shared stashing system. Now, this would require a very large stash based on how many items we actually get, but if not, you can always mule from one of your characters to the next.
I agree to the fact that I'd not like to have to get several of the same items just because I made new characters, but I'd also like to keep the economy from going to shit. I think this would be a good compromise for the situation.
I actually like this idea a lot.
Quote from "blizter" »
I think you don't understand obviously. If an item dropping at a rate of 0.005% is better than another item dropping at the rate of 0.005%. Developer will most likely want to make the better item drop less often, doing so will most likely become unplayable for player as items get better because the items drop rate would be so low that nothing would drop. BoE was then introduced to add an artificial value to items because once the item is binded, it is out of the economy.
BoE is NOT necessary in a game where items drop more, ie: more monsters die faster, because the drop formula is rolled often so even if drop rates are low, it's still reasonable.
I am not speaking about the rarity of items, dude. I am speaking about the circulation of items that never get destroyed, which lowers the value of the item. I don't care whether it.s a .0000000001% drop or not, not every item is like this as the Diablo series is primarily made for casual games who don't have to invest loads of time to obtaining items (MMORPGS).
You should really go play diablo 2, you will like it. Maybe you will learn stuff about the game, you know, it's a fun game.
Maybe you should, you know, enroll in a business or economics class, because then, you know, you could learn something intangible. Like, you know, not coming off as ignorant. You know.
By the way, I love how you deflect the question by attacking me, rofl. You didn't even answer my question and you transposed Diablo 3 with DIABLO 2? Sorry, you really are an idiot. I wonder if you will ever back up the claim that Diablo 3 drops more items than other games.
I am not speaking about the rarity of items, dude. I am speaking about the circulation of items that never get destroyed, which lowers the value of the item. I don't care whether it.s a .0000000001% drop or not, not every item is like this as the Diablo series is primarily made for casual games who don't have to invest loads of time to obtaining items (MMORPGS).
I don't know if you have problem regarding simple logic, but when it is removed of circulation, it does up the rarity of that item, because a potential trader is removed from the market.
Pfft... Imo BoE/BoP would ruin the game. Why work hard for anything before top level if it is not worth anythign because you decided to wear it? You can sell a car in real life after you use it. You can sell your house, your whatever. The D2 system was realistic.
I disagree with binding. If blizzard puts a stop to Muling they will save massive server space, which imo, should be used to host all of your items etc for you. Thus duping and hacking drops would not work and the system would work like real life.
Maybe in normal gameplay BoE/BoP works, but in HC (How i play), you do not need such a system because gear is destroyed naturally anyway.
There is a free game out called Corum Online. It implemented a system that had items that were bound to your account.
This allowed you to swap between all of your characters on your account via a shared stashing system. Now, this would require a very large stash based on how many items we actually get, but if not, you can always mule from one of your characters to the next.
I agree to the fact that I'd not like to have to get several of the same items just because I made new characters, but I'd also like to keep the economy from going to shit. I think this would be a good compromise for the situation.
I actually like this idea a lot.
I thought it was a good idea as well. The game was rather shawdy, but I was actually rather surprise that this had not been implemented anywhere else. It made it very nice to be able to have nice items unique to your account that others didn't have.
I don't know if you have problem regarding simple logic, but is removed of circulation, it does up the rarity of that item, because a potential trader is removed from the market.
No, as long as the item can still be tradable in the game, it is still in circulation. Where does your logic come that because an item is in use, it is not in circulation? Jesus, what a retard.
That's like saying because I have $5,000,000 in real life, the value of it goes down because I am not spending it.
I would like to hear your answer to this, please.
Rofl, since I am bored and have no life apparently, every time Blitzter the Dolt brings up an asinine claim, I will add it to a list and reply to every post of his until it gets answered.
Blizter the Dolt's idiocy--the bold and quoted are from Blizter's very own mouth. The regular font are my questions.
1.) Your solution is "If you don't like it, then don't play it"? Do you use this mantra in your everyday life as well?
2.) "BoE is only used to make some items have a fake value because the developers want the item to drop on a regular rate, but still being rarer than an other item dropping at the same rate. Now, why would YOU want that."
3.) Since lots of items drop in Diablo 3, more than other games. then the developers can remove BoE and the game still works.
4.) "I don't know if you have problem regarding simple logic, but is removed of circulation, it does up the rarity of that item, because a potential trader is removed from the market." 4a.) That's like saying because I have $5,000,000 in real life, the value of it goes down because I am not spending it.
No need for subtle insults now.
I heard the word BoP implemented a lot more than BoE. I assumed that both were suggested.
Anyways, even if it's BoE, I do not think that it will help much. Honestly? It will probably make the rich richer and the poor poorer. Say the rich have 100 good items and the poor have 5. So the poor lose 4 items to this and the rich lose 4. It went from the rich are 20x richer than the poor to the rich are 96x richer than the poor. Obviously, this is an exaggerated scenario, but the point remains. Items will be entering the economy whether this system is implemented or not, and it seems to obstruct the poor more than the rich.
Sorry, didn't mean it as an insult. It really just makes me wonder why people keep bringing up the same points over and over that don't make any sense, like how BoE would mess up the trading system.
On to what to you said in your 2nd paragraph. I understand what you're trying to say, but that person with those 100 rares worked his butt off for those items. It's not like he just magically came into the game filthy rich while some other person comes in and gets junk. You get what earn. Plain and simple. And really, having rares and not having them isn't the issue here.
And it's true, items will be entering the economy no matter what system is implemented. The main point of emphasis though is what happens TO those items once in the system. Without some form of item regulation, from the very beginning of D3's lifespan and everything afterwards, items will CONTINUALLY accumulate without ever exiting the economy. As the game progresses, a continuous trend of deflation will slowly but surely occur to EVERY item in the economy. Soon it will get to the point where people won't even pick up a certain rare given it's low value.
Just wondering, but have you ever played D2? If so, you should know the importance of having a better item system. Take my favorite D2 item of all time, Bonesnap. It's a low level maul weapon for Barbs. It wasn't overly powerful nor was it fancy or anything, but hey, it was a rare and I loved it. I still remember when D2 first came out how everyone wanted one of these. Now, fast forward to several months later and factor in the hundreds of Bonesnap drops that have occurred during that time, I find that the worth of the item has pretty much dropped to garbage status. EVERYONE has them stashed in their vaults, and no one can get rid of them. Hell, I remember going into games and just handing rares of this level to newbies for free.
Now, in a economy regulated by a system like BoE, items will definitely retain their value for the long run. People will think twice about using the item themselves, or keeping it for a future trade they might need to do. The proportion of items coming INTO and EXITING out of the market will remain fairly balanced, hence the lasting status quo in the market value of each item.
Aite, enough explaining from me. I'm tired of reiterating the same things.
No, as long as the item can still be tradable in the game, it is still in circulation. Where does your logic come that because an item is in use, it is not in circulation? Jesus, what a retard.
That's like saying because I have $5,000,000 in real life, the value of it goes down because I am not spending it.
I would like to hear your answer to this, please.
I was talking about BoE.... "Where does your logic come that because an item is in use, it is not in circulation"
Sorry, didn't mean it as an insult. It really just makes me wonder why people keep bringing up the same points over and over that don't make any sense, like how BoE would mess up the trading system.
On to what to you said in your 2nd paragraph. I understand what you're trying to say, but that person with those 100 rares worked his butt off for those items. It's not like he just magically came into the game filthy rich while some other person comes in and gets junk. You get what earn. Plain and simple. And really, having rares and not having them isn't the issue here.
And it's true, items will be entering the economy no matter what system is implemented. The main point of emphasis though is what happens TO those items once in the system. Without some form of item regulation, from the very beginning of D3's lifespan and everything afterwards, items will CONTINUALLY accumulate without ever exiting the economy. As the game progresses, a continuous trend of deflation will slowly but surely occur to EVERY item in the economy. Soon it will get to the point where people won't even pick up a certain rare given it's low value.
Just wondering, but have you ever played D2? If so, you should know the importance of having a better item system. Take my favorite D2 item of all time, Bonesnap. It's a low level maul weapon for Barbs. It wasn't overly powerful nor was it fancy or anything, but hey, it was a rare and I loved it. I still remember when D2 first came out how everyone wanted one of these. Now, fast forward to several months later and factor in the hundreds of Bonesnap drops that have occurred during that time, I find that the worth of the item has pretty much dropped to garbage status. EVERYONE has them stashed in their vaults, and no one can get rid of them. Hell, I remember going into games and just handing rares of this level to newbies for free.
Now, in a economy regulated by a system like BoE, items will definitely retain their value for the long run. People will think twice about using the item themselves, or keeping it for a future trade they might need to do. The proportion of items coming INTO and EXITING out of the market will remain fairly balanced, hence the lasting status quo in the market value of each item.
Aite, enough explaining from me. I'm tired of reiterating the same things.
By the way I am not saying it will mess up the system, I am saying it won't add anything. Oh and Bonesnap is not rare, it drops very often, making it useless for trade like you said, but it was meant like this, very high drop rate. The only reason it "looked" rare at first is because the game/ladder probably just started, making everything single item in the game rare.
I was talking about BoE.... "Where does your logic come that because an item is in use, it is not in circulation"
No, you weren't. Now, please back up or answer these claims before you make yourself look more stupid.
Blizter the Dolt's idiocy--the bold and quoted are from Blizter's very own mouth. The regular font are my questions.
1.) Your solution is "If you don't like it, then don't play it"? Do you use this mantra in your everyday life as well?
2.) "BoE is only used to make some items have a fake value because the developers want the item to drop on a regular rate, but still being rarer than an other item dropping at the same rate. Now, why would YOU want that."
3.) Since lots of items drop in Diablo 3, more than other games. then the developers can remove BoE and the game still works.
4.) "I don't know if you have problem regarding simple logic, but is removed of circulation, it does up the rarity of that item, because a potential trader is removed from the market." 4a.) That's like saying because I have $5,000,000 in real life, the value of it goes down because I am not spending it.
If you really did play Diablo 2 over B.net at all then you know the economy sucked because of the myriad of uniques everyone had. Even I had four mules packed with high-end runes and gear and I had one mule carrying specifically Windforces, Eaglehorns, Stormshields, and Grandfathers.
If you really played Diablo 2 over B.net then you know the economy sucked because of the myriad of duped items everyone had.
I'm not sure if he's understanding item rarity HuHu.
The rarity of an item stays the same. He isn't thinking of it like "supply and demand." If people demand a rare item more, obviously it will be worth a lot more. if the demand goes down, it will be less.
The more people that have a bound item, the less people that will demand it. It'll fluctuate, giving the economy longevity. I agree with you on your points HuHu. Don't let people that don't understand economics get you down.
My discussion with you is not ended. You are saying you know more what I said than myself. It looks like you don't have the abilities to argue with other persons. I already said all I had to say, if you can't still understand, then so be it.
By the way I am not saying it will mess up the system, I am saying it won't add anything. Oh and Bonesnap is not rare, it drops very often, making it useless for trade like you said, but it was meant like this, very high drop rate. The only reason it "looked" rare at first is because the game/ladder probably just started, making everything single item in the game rare.
Cmon bro, you're seriously missing the whole point........Oh and yes, Bonesnap is most definitely a "Rare" item in the game. Please don't argue that because it is. And just why do you think it became useless? Because it CONTINUALLY dropped for everyone, and it STAYED inside economy from that point on. Here's where the issue of supply and demand kicks in once again.
Supply = Bonesnap supply continually rising without EVER leaving the economy Demand = Drastically dropping due to the ease of obtaining a Bonesnap from the unending supply
Now, implement a system like BoE to this same situation, and here's what happens:
Supply = Bonesnaps continually balanced due to entering AND exiting from the economy. Issue of unending supply of Bonesnaps resolved. Demand = Again, continually balanced due to need from new characters and the limited supply of the Bonesnaps
Alright, please tell me this made things easier to understand.
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I think you don't understand obviously. If an item dropping at a rate of 0.005% is better than another item dropping at the rate of 0.005%. Developer will most likely want to make the better item drop less often, doing so will most likely become unplayable for player as items get better because the items drop rate would be so low that nothing would drop. BoE was then introduced to add an artificial value to items because once the item is binded, it is out of the economy.
BoE is NOT necessary in a game where items drop more, ie: more monsters die faster, because the drop formula is rolled often so even if drop rates are low, it's still reasonable.
In Diablo 2, with no BoE, the items were never destroyed and stayed in circulation forever. That is why items became currency (SoJs and runes).
If BoE was implemented, the items you equip cannot enter the circulation of the economy because it is untradable, thus the value of the item does not drop, but stays relatively the same even when more items are found.
By the way, how do you know Diablo 3 drops more items than other games? Is this another one of your outlandish claims with no evidence backing it up? I wonder if this question will be dismissed when you have no way of retorting, just like you did many other times.
I am assuming it drops as many items as in diablo 2.
You question is pointless, how do you know it won't drop as many as in diablo 2 ? you don't.
I actually like this idea a lot.
I am not speaking about the rarity of items, dude. I am speaking about the circulation of items that never get destroyed, which lowers the value of the item. I don't care whether it.s a .0000000001% drop or not, not every item is like this as the Diablo series is primarily made for casual games who don't have to invest loads of time to obtaining items (MMORPGS).
Maybe you should, you know, enroll in a business or economics class, because then, you know, you could learn something intangible. Like, you know, not coming off as ignorant. You know.
By the way, I love how you deflect the question by attacking me, rofl. You didn't even answer my question and you transposed Diablo 3 with DIABLO 2? Sorry, you really are an idiot. I wonder if you will ever back up the claim that Diablo 3 drops more items than other games.
I don't know if you have problem regarding simple logic, but when it is removed of circulation, it does up the rarity of that item, because a potential trader is removed from the market.
I disagree with binding. If blizzard puts a stop to Muling they will save massive server space, which imo, should be used to host all of your items etc for you. Thus duping and hacking drops would not work and the system would work like real life.
Maybe in normal gameplay BoE/BoP works, but in HC (How i play), you do not need such a system because gear is destroyed naturally anyway.
I thought it was a good idea as well. The game was rather shawdy, but I was actually rather surprise that this had not been implemented anywhere else. It made it very nice to be able to have nice items unique to your account that others didn't have.
No, as long as the item can still be tradable in the game, it is still in circulation. Where does your logic come that because an item is in use, it is not in circulation? Jesus, what a retard.
That's like saying because I have $5,000,000 in real life, the value of it goes down because I am not spending it.
I would like to hear your answer to this, please.
Rofl, since I am bored and have no life apparently, every time Blitzter the Dolt brings up an asinine claim, I will add it to a list and reply to every post of his until it gets answered.
Blizter the Dolt's idiocy--the bold and quoted are from Blizter's very own mouth. The regular font are my questions.
1.) Your solution is "If you don't like it, then don't play it"? Do you use this mantra in your everyday life as well?
2.) "BoE is only used to make some items have a fake value because the developers want the item to drop on a regular rate, but still being rarer than an other item dropping at the same rate. Now, why would YOU want that."
3.) Since lots of items drop in Diablo 3, more than other games. then the developers can remove BoE and the game still works.
4.) "I don't know if you have problem regarding simple logic, but is removed of circulation, it does up the rarity of that item, because a potential trader is removed from the market."
4a.) That's like saying because I have $5,000,000 in real life, the value of it goes down because I am not spending it.
Sorry, didn't mean it as an insult. It really just makes me wonder why people keep bringing up the same points over and over that don't make any sense, like how BoE would mess up the trading system.
On to what to you said in your 2nd paragraph. I understand what you're trying to say, but that person with those 100 rares worked his butt off for those items. It's not like he just magically came into the game filthy rich while some other person comes in and gets junk. You get what earn. Plain and simple. And really, having rares and not having them isn't the issue here.
And it's true, items will be entering the economy no matter what system is implemented. The main point of emphasis though is what happens TO those items once in the system. Without some form of item regulation, from the very beginning of D3's lifespan and everything afterwards, items will CONTINUALLY accumulate without ever exiting the economy. As the game progresses, a continuous trend of deflation will slowly but surely occur to EVERY item in the economy. Soon it will get to the point where people won't even pick up a certain rare given it's low value.
Just wondering, but have you ever played D2? If so, you should know the importance of having a better item system. Take my favorite D2 item of all time, Bonesnap. It's a low level maul weapon for Barbs. It wasn't overly powerful nor was it fancy or anything, but hey, it was a rare and I loved it. I still remember when D2 first came out how everyone wanted one of these. Now, fast forward to several months later and factor in the hundreds of Bonesnap drops that have occurred during that time, I find that the worth of the item has pretty much dropped to garbage status. EVERYONE has them stashed in their vaults, and no one can get rid of them. Hell, I remember going into games and just handing rares of this level to newbies for free.
Now, in a economy regulated by a system like BoE, items will definitely retain their value for the long run. People will think twice about using the item themselves, or keeping it for a future trade they might need to do. The proportion of items coming INTO and EXITING out of the market will remain fairly balanced, hence the lasting status quo in the market value of each item.
Aite, enough explaining from me. I'm tired of reiterating the same things.
I was talking about BoE.... "Where does your logic come that because an item is in use, it is not in circulation"
By the way I am not saying it will mess up the system, I am saying it won't add anything. Oh and Bonesnap is not rare, it drops very often, making it useless for trade like you said, but it was meant like this, very high drop rate. The only reason it "looked" rare at first is because the game/ladder probably just started, making everything single item in the game rare.
No, you weren't. Now, please back up or answer these claims before you make yourself look more stupid.
Blizter the Dolt's idiocy--the bold and quoted are from Blizter's very own mouth. The regular font are my questions.
1.) Your solution is "If you don't like it, then don't play it"? Do you use this mantra in your everyday life as well?
2.) "BoE is only used to make some items have a fake value because the developers want the item to drop on a regular rate, but still being rarer than an other item dropping at the same rate. Now, why would YOU want that."
3.) Since lots of items drop in Diablo 3, more than other games. then the developers can remove BoE and the game still works.
4.) "I don't know if you have problem regarding simple logic, but is removed of circulation, it does up the rarity of that item, because a potential trader is removed from the market."
4a.) That's like saying because I have $5,000,000 in real life, the value of it goes down because I am not spending it.
simplest decision.
although that doesnt mean im totally against BoE... i AM against BoP though
If you really played Diablo 2 over B.net then you know the economy sucked because of the myriad of duped items everyone had.
The rarity of an item stays the same. He isn't thinking of it like "supply and demand." If people demand a rare item more, obviously it will be worth a lot more. if the demand goes down, it will be less.
The more people that have a bound item, the less people that will demand it. It'll fluctuate, giving the economy longevity. I agree with you on your points HuHu. Don't let people that don't understand economics get you down.
Yes, but are you insinuating there still wasn't an influx of high-end uniques when duping was stopped?
My discussion with you is not ended. You are saying you know more what I said than myself. It looks like you don't have the abilities to argue with other persons. I already said all I had to say, if you can't still understand, then so be it.
Cmon bro, you're seriously missing the whole point........Oh and yes, Bonesnap is most definitely a "Rare" item in the game. Please don't argue that because it is. And just why do you think it became useless? Because it CONTINUALLY dropped for everyone, and it STAYED inside economy from that point on. Here's where the issue of supply and demand kicks in once again.
Supply = Bonesnap supply continually rising without EVER leaving the economy
Demand = Drastically dropping due to the ease of obtaining a Bonesnap from the unending supply
Now, implement a system like BoE to this same situation, and here's what happens:
Supply = Bonesnaps continually balanced due to entering AND exiting from the economy. Issue of unending supply of Bonesnaps resolved.
Demand = Again, continually balanced due to need from new characters and the limited supply of the Bonesnaps
Alright, please tell me this made things easier to understand.