maybe at a high cost u can respec, but otherwise it does add more technicalities to the pvp scenario, which sounds heavenly, but the overuse and constant changing would get annoying.
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Remember the String of Ears
"to the worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish."
I think there should be some quest every now and then (every 30 level ups) that would allow u to go back to the npc for respec. So you would have maybe 3 respecs / character.
There should also be a confirmation box after skill placements so that if you missclicked something you could undo it.
Personally, i say no. It kills the fun, really. I have played D2 forever, i even got a Sacrifice din to level 80 (ditching it because it did horrible damage (6kish) for the cost). Very fun.
Perhaps having an event for respecs? Such as Uber Tristram?
Uber Tristram - I never even get that far. If you do want to make it a quest please consider that most people that would respec are not people that are so uber-super-amazing and knowledgeable about Diablo that they can get to "Uber Tristram". Whatever that is.
And that's who the game is for: casual players who want to relax. Not fanatics who will grind the game.
That is completely new interpretation of casual. There was NOTHING casual about the first diablo. it was hard as fuck. Diablo II was maybe casual up through ACT II on normal. ACT III was pretty damn hard the first time through. And I never thought it was relaxing. A relaxing game would be flow. Yeah, thats relaxing.
On the topic of Respecing : I'm not a fan, but I get its place in the game. LETS BE REALISTIC : YOU CAN'T REALLY SAY "YES" OR "NO" IF YOU DON'T KNOW HOW THE SKILLS ARE BALANCED.
I feel like everyone that says "no" does it under the assumption that the skill tree is going to function just like in diablo II. Now, functioning under that assumption, I would say it should be costly or limited.
One thing I read that made sense is that every time you level up, you gain a skill point, and you get to respec a point. I feel like that would be fine.
Now, if after that, you feel like you should have more respecing options, make it expensive. You could use gold, which would introduce some value to it. Or, yo could use experience. Say, every time you respec a point, it costs 5% of the total experience needed to get to the next level. So, yeah, its expensive. You can't respec your whole character. But you can tweak it, and fix mistakes you've made, or take some points from skills you don't need anymore.
Respeccing has NOTHING to do with WoW. What it does have to do with is escaping character regret when your a noob and making it so that if you get a Barbarian to 99, if you put a skill point in a wrong slot you don't have to reroll a whole barbarian.
Personally, it's dumb not to have it.
Actually it does. Respeccing is another casual player measure introduced to lower the risk vs. reward factor in games. D2's approach was much better, if you screw up you start over; the end.
But then D2's time investment is nowhere close to that of say WoW, so messing up and starting over is not a killer.
My personal oppinion : respect should cost gold according to the caracters level.
For a level 3 character should be almost free, for a lvl 99 one it should be almost impossible to respec.
And I don't think that this game shouldn't be compared to wow in some areas, they're both RPG's even though wow is a mmorpg and diablo is hack & slash, the basic concepts are the same (you play and evolve with a character)
I'm all for it, and I havn't seen a good arguement against it yet. Some counter arguements to those posted:
Respecs will generate cookie cutter builds.
Cookie cutter builds are going to exist no matter what. Remember the hammerdin?
It only takes 2 or 3 days to get to level 80 anyway.
Believe it or not, grinding 30 hours or how ever it's going to take to get to level 80 is NOT fun to some players.
It makes your character less unique.
Theres nothing stopping you from making unique characters if you don't want to respec, demanding other players to go by your own ethos is kinda messed up. On a related note, the game Guild Wars allows infinite respecs (for free even) and it didn't stop people from making duplicates of the same class (I've heard of people buying an extra 10+ character slots so they could accomodate this).
There should no respecs in HC mode.
No respec in HC is definitely acceptable and goes with the overall theme of the HC game style. This one i do actually like.
Respecs will allow players to build for the early game (pump high bash) then change for the late game (change bash to double swing) making it too easy.
There's no reason the difficulty level can't accomodate this.
A few other thoughts;
Respecs should cost a considerable ammount of resources (and make for a good money sink for that matter).
As said before, respecing has nothing to do with WoW specificaly and is a game dynamic found in many games.
Someone else mentioned that you still need to gear your character
, and this is absolutley right. In general, it's not so simple as just clicking the skill tree again. Planning still needs to go into it, and time invested to make the truely good builds work.
As for respecing being too easy, I like to think of myself as a power gamer, and finding the easiest method to do things is exactly what thats about. I'm going to pull up the example of the hammerdin again. The build took a small ammount of skill to actualy run, requireing you to manage 3 skills with 2 mouse buttons (tele, hammer, and conc) but past that made the game exessively easy.
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There are no cheap tactics, only good ones.
Don't be afraid to take a chance, your skill will help the dice roll in your favor.
Be polite. Be efficient. Have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
That is completely new interpretation of casual. There was NOTHING casual about the first diablo. it was hard as fuck.
I finished Diablo I and I really liked it. I did not find it hard... at all... OK, I couldn't run around like an idiot like you can with some classes in DII Normal Act I but mostly Diablo I was a pleasant, flowing process of gratifying fighting, good items (which are absent from DII), awesome quests (I always hoped I get Leoric, and the Butcher!), awesome, well, everything.
In DII, you start of good, mostly Act I for me, then it becomes a stupid grind. It's not hard. It's grinding. There is a difference. You don't get any good items if you just normally play without farming. Your skills eventually become worthless. I had a pure bone necro and his Bone spear did crap damage in Act II nightmare and his bone spirit wasn't a lot better. This doesn't happen in Diablo I. Your character steadily gets stronger, the game gets a bit harder, but before it gets too hard the game ends. That's the beauty of the best action RPG ever made: Diablo ONE.
I'm all for it, and I havn't seen a good arguement against it yet.
How about : IT REMOVES A GIGANTIC PART OF THE GAMEPLAY.
Now, if that wasn't an important part of the gameplay for you, that fine. But it was a HUGE part of the gameplay for me. It was the main part, along with collecting gear.
Here is where I stand : One point every level is great. and then either gold or exp to respec more than that. I think you should be able to tweak your character's skills some, but make it impossibly expensive to complete change it.
Thank you for clearing that up for me. I didn't know that, seeing as how I haven't played the game, it was only announced 3 days ago, and they said little to nothing about leveling up. :mad:
Make it cost gold to respec, and possibly put a timer in so you can't respec everyday even if you had the gold. With restrictions it will make original skill point distribution important.
With a new patch (oh man sorry I'm bringing this up) a free respec just because I remember when they changed how sorceress skills worked and wow mine was completely useless at such a high level.
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[FONT=Garamond][SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
[/FONT]
Quote from "DIABLO »
[FONT=Garamond]Not even death can save you from [/FONT']
make it so you have a certain amount or cost something... there has to be a reason that you don't want to do it... unless you have to... or screwed up or something
I proposed the idea of respecing every 5 (or 6 if DII system stays) levels. You get to level 5, you get to respec those 5 levels and define in which direction you are going. 5 levels later, you get to respec skill points from levesl 6-10. And so on. This way you can't respec too much and you have to stick to some idea. And it doesn't rely on a currency or playing time or whatever...
I proposed the idea of respecing every 5 (or 6 if DII system stays) levels. You get to level 5, you get to respec those 5 levels and define in which direction you are going. 5 levels later, you get to respec skill points from levesl 6-10. And so on. This way you can't respec too much and you have to stick to some idea. And it doesn't rely on a currency or playing time or whatever...
Wow. I actually really like that idea. Maybe too have a okay/cancel for choosing a skill anyways to see the damage change and the like.
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[FONT=Garamond][SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
[/FONT]
Quote from "DIABLO »
[FONT=Garamond]Not even death can save you from [/FONT']
With a new patch (oh man sorry I'm bringing this up) a free respec just because I remember when they changed how sorceress skills worked and wow mine was completely useless at such a high level.
yeah, that sound fair. But probably only on patchs that would change the blanace like that.
No, no realocating skillpoints, it would drastically destroy replayability and where's the fun in playing Diablo with respecs anyways? Maybe one or two "realocatable" skillpoints given to the player via a succesfull quest.
I would say thats a bit extreme of a reaction.
Keep in mind we don't know anything about how the skills are balanced. Respecs in D2 wouldn't make much sense, but if the skills are different, then it might be needed.
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Common sense goes a long way...
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"to the worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish."
There should also be a confirmation box after skill placements so that if you missclicked something you could undo it.
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
Perhaps having an event for respecs? Such as Uber Tristram?
That is completely new interpretation of casual. There was NOTHING casual about the first diablo. it was hard as fuck. Diablo II was maybe casual up through ACT II on normal. ACT III was pretty damn hard the first time through. And I never thought it was relaxing. A relaxing game would be flow. Yeah, thats relaxing.
On the topic of Respecing : I'm not a fan, but I get its place in the game. LETS BE REALISTIC : YOU CAN'T REALLY SAY "YES" OR "NO" IF YOU DON'T KNOW HOW THE SKILLS ARE BALANCED.
I feel like everyone that says "no" does it under the assumption that the skill tree is going to function just like in diablo II. Now, functioning under that assumption, I would say it should be costly or limited.
One thing I read that made sense is that every time you level up, you gain a skill point, and you get to respec a point. I feel like that would be fine.
Now, if after that, you feel like you should have more respecing options, make it expensive. You could use gold, which would introduce some value to it. Or, yo could use experience. Say, every time you respec a point, it costs 5% of the total experience needed to get to the next level. So, yeah, its expensive. You can't respec your whole character. But you can tweak it, and fix mistakes you've made, or take some points from skills you don't need anymore.
But then D2's time investment is nowhere close to that of say WoW, so messing up and starting over is not a killer.
For a level 3 character should be almost free, for a lvl 99 one it should be almost impossible to respec.
And I don't think that this game shouldn't be compared to wow in some areas, they're both RPG's even though wow is a mmorpg and diablo is hack & slash, the basic concepts are the same (you play and evolve with a character)
Respecs will generate cookie cutter builds.
Cookie cutter builds are going to exist no matter what. Remember the hammerdin?
It only takes 2 or 3 days to get to level 80 anyway.
Believe it or not, grinding 30 hours or how ever it's going to take to get to level 80 is NOT fun to some players.
It makes your character less unique.
Theres nothing stopping you from making unique characters if you don't want to respec, demanding other players to go by your own ethos is kinda messed up. On a related note, the game Guild Wars allows infinite respecs (for free even) and it didn't stop people from making duplicates of the same class (I've heard of people buying an extra 10+ character slots so they could accomodate this).
There should no respecs in HC mode.
No respec in HC is definitely acceptable and goes with the overall theme of the HC game style. This one i do actually like.
Respecs will allow players to build for the early game (pump high bash) then change for the late game (change bash to double swing) making it too easy.
There's no reason the difficulty level can't accomodate this.
A few other thoughts;
Respecs should cost a considerable ammount of resources (and make for a good money sink for that matter).
As said before, respecing has nothing to do with WoW specificaly and is a game dynamic found in many games.
Someone else mentioned that you still need to gear your character
, and this is absolutley right. In general, it's not so simple as just clicking the skill tree again. Planning still needs to go into it, and time invested to make the truely good builds work.
As for respecing being too easy, I like to think of myself as a power gamer, and finding the easiest method to do things is exactly what thats about. I'm going to pull up the example of the hammerdin again. The build took a small ammount of skill to actualy run, requireing you to manage 3 skills with 2 mouse buttons (tele, hammer, and conc) but past that made the game exessively easy.
Don't be afraid to take a chance, your skill will help the dice roll in your favor.
Be polite. Be efficient. Have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
In DII, you start of good, mostly Act I for me, then it becomes a stupid grind. It's not hard. It's grinding. There is a difference. You don't get any good items if you just normally play without farming. Your skills eventually become worthless. I had a pure bone necro and his Bone spear did crap damage in Act II nightmare and his bone spirit wasn't a lot better. This doesn't happen in Diablo I. Your character steadily gets stronger, the game gets a bit harder, but before it gets too hard the game ends. That's the beauty of the best action RPG ever made: Diablo ONE.
How about : IT REMOVES A GIGANTIC PART OF THE GAMEPLAY.
Now, if that wasn't an important part of the gameplay for you, that fine. But it was a HUGE part of the gameplay for me. It was the main part, along with collecting gear.
Here is where I stand : One point every level is great. and then either gold or exp to respec more than that. I think you should be able to tweak your character's skills some, but make it impossibly expensive to complete change it.
Leveling is gonna be harder. What if you make a skill tree mistake? Your telling me you wouldnt want to be able to respec?
Stfu, dont lie to yourselves. + there will most likely be a quest to allow you to respec once per difficulty.
Thank you for clearing that up for me. I didn't know that, seeing as how I haven't played the game, it was only announced 3 days ago, and they said little to nothing about leveling up. :mad:
I heard them say "I think respecing is awesome." So yeah, its probably going to be in the game in one form or another.
With a new patch (oh man sorry I'm bringing this up) a free respec just because I remember when they changed how sorceress skills worked and wow mine was completely useless at such a high level.
Wow. I actually really like that idea. Maybe too have a okay/cancel for choosing a skill anyways to see the damage change and the like.
yeah, that sound fair. But probably only on patchs that would change the blanace like that.
I would say thats a bit extreme of a reaction.
Keep in mind we don't know anything about how the skills are balanced. Respecs in D2 wouldn't make much sense, but if the skills are different, then it might be needed.