So they nerfed XP gear into the ground. And they even lowered HP monster settings for solo. Now solo should be able to compete with groups, or atleast the gap between solo and groups is closer. Wrong! 4-player groups are already doing Grift100+speeds, netting more then 1.000+bil XP/H. Solo player doing Grift70 speeds in about 8-10min is getting 100bil/H. Difference is more then x10. Look at the 4-player Leaderboard in Europe. People are already at 2000 paragon. This is only 1 month into the season. Still 2 months to go. End result: you will still run 10k+ main stat behind, just like last season. Byebye leaderboard dreams.
Nothing Changed.
This twisted sword+twister health globe support meta is way way to strong. And should have been nerfed long time ago. The amount of dmg Wiz can do is just mind boggling wrong. Which allows these super high 100+ grifts.
So they nerfed XP gear into the ground. And they even lowered HP monster settings for solo. Now solo should be able to compete with groups, or atleast the gap between solo and groups is closer. Wrong! 4-player groups are already doing Grift100+speeds, netting more then 1.000+bil XP/H. Solo player doing Grift70 speeds in about 8-10min is getting 100bil/H. Difference is more then x10. Look at the 4-player Leaderboard in Europe. People are already at 2000 paragon. This is only 1 month into the season. Still 2 months to go. End result: you will still run 10k+ main stat behind, just like last season. Byebye leaderboard dreams.
Nothing Changed.
This twisted sword+twister health globe support meta is way way to strong. And should have been nerfed long time ago. The amount of dmg Wiz can do is just mind boggling wrong. Which allows these super high 100+ grifts.
Tbh if the Twister spec didn't exist there would be a way smaller gap. The only reason any runs near this exist is due to how the wizard works. Knowing blizz they didn't even expect half the builds players came up with.
The point is that Blizz wanted to close the gap between solo and group play. Thats why they made all these changes in the first place. But once again they failed. I actually could compete if the gap was closer. I'm at paragon 1.1k mostly solo/duo. But this game is a joke and I guess I should have known better, to believe anything would ever improve in D3. Boring meta, illusion of multiple builds. But its still the same 1 build rules in high grifts. Balance between classes is still bad. Just another season with power creep and higher dmg numbers, giving the illusion something changed. Well played Blizz. Nothing changed.
Its actually even worse then last season, because of Caldesann's Despair. These groups will very easely get rank100 gems into all of their gear+100 gems into rings/amulet. But whatever right. Most people are casual player that dont care, anyways. Guess I'll just have to wait for next season or play something else....
The main reason behind the huge paragon differences is, and likely will continue to be, botting. Of course, there is, and will continue to be a difference between solo and MP - Not only is there the default 30% multiplier, but theres also synergy between classes, and as you can see at the higher lvl, synergy between support and damage, which further increases the gap. Blizzard, is, however, slamming down on botters recently, so its incredibly likely that we will see botters banned and the leaderboards wiped.
Also, there is an inherent diminishing return with paragon - The more paragon you have, the less it contributes to boosting your damage. I.E going from 0-200 paragon will boost your GR clear by, say, 5 lvls, similar for 201-400, but the amount of boost you get from the stats gets less and less - I.E. The gap from 3000-4000 isn't as much as the gap from 1000-2000, and the gap between 9000-10000 wouldn't be as much as the gap between 800-1300
Botting no doubt makes it worse, but I agree with the OP. Being able to speed run very high Grifts is key to fast Paragon progress since the XP you earn appears to scale up so significantly as you run higher and higher levels.
The meta this season is even more of a clusterf!ck than last season. I would love to hear Blizzard make an official comment on the massive disparity in dps potential between the Twister Wiz and everything else. My bet is we won't hear a peep from them. They tend to ignore their glaring failures as if they don't actually exist.
A fix to this as you call it a problem, put in paragon tiers of say 100 that way all the cry baby's who want to stretch their epeen can. very simple to implement, but then you would have all the no life's complaining about it, so a solution, play the game and enjoy life every once in a while or give up your life for a game.
The main reason behind the huge paragon differences is, and likely will continue to be, botting. Of course, there is, and will continue to be a difference between solo and MP - Not only is there the default 30% multiplier, but theres also synergy between classes, and as you can see at the higher lvl, synergy between support and damage, which further increases the gap. Blizzard, is, however, slamming down on botters recently, so its incredibly likely that we will see botters banned and the leaderboards wiped.
Also, there is an inherent diminishing return with paragon - The more paragon you have, the less it contributes to boosting your damage. I.E going from 0-200 paragon will boost your GR clear by, say, 5 lvls, similar for 201-400, but the amount of boost you get from the stats gets less and less - I.E. The gap from 3000-4000 isn't as much as the gap from 1000-2000, and the gap between 9000-10000 wouldn't be as much as the gap between 800-1300
The top people who spam GR 100s for paragon farming have said that botting isn't that big of a deal. If blizzard came out and abolished it today all that would change is that these clans that do 12 hours of GR 100 a day will change their approach to 1-2 hours of key farming and 11 hours of GR 100 a day. the issue is as OP mentioned that the experience gap from solo to groups is immense, and when the difference between top players and second tier players is paragon level and not gear, it becomes and issue.
What I do is find someone on the leaderboard of similar paragon and same build as me and set that as my goal/ what I am competing for. I know being a mostly solo player I won't compete with 2k paragoners but it really doesn't bother me too much, you just need to adjust your goals according to what you are actually competing against.
So they nerfed XP gear into the ground. And they even lowered HP monster settings for solo. Now solo should be able to compete with groups, or atleast the gap between solo and groups is closer. Wrong! 4-player groups are already doing Grift100+speeds, netting more then 1.000+bil XP/H. Solo player doing Grift70 speeds in about 8-10min is getting 100bil/H. Difference is more then x10. Look at the 4-player Leaderboard in Europe. People are already at 2000 paragon. This is only 1 month into the season. Still 2 months to go. End result: you will still run 10k+ main stat behind, just like last season. Byebye leaderboard dreams.
Nothing Changed.
This twisted sword+twister health globe support meta is way way to strong. And should have been nerfed long time ago. The amount of dmg Wiz can do is just mind boggling wrong. Which allows these super high 100+ grifts.
XP gear cains/borns/leorics helm/ring is still the best gear in the game, always has been since it existed, top groups use 3 SUPP and 2 of those 3 is XP supps, nothing changed Blizzard told all lies
ok, what now? We all know that group meta is too strong. We all know Blizzard doesn't change skills/items in between a season. This season just has a group meta that exploits a game mechanic and a skill bug to get that high in the leaderboards.
We all know this. We know that Blizzard will do something against it AFTER the season. So how does this thread help?
People are already P2000. Yes, of course they are. But they are also playing half a day, every day. Could you compete with that?
All I want is something like:
Group players play best meta and are 2,000 para playing 12 hours a day first 30 days of the season.
Solo players play their best speed farm build and are 1750 para playing 12 hours a day for first 30 days of the season.
This way, things are brought together a bit more. Right now the #'s are 2,000 and around 1,200 which simply does not cut it, that is 800*5=4,000 main stat. At 250*5= 1250 main stat, you can honestly compete on the leader board with the right rift, but not when that main stat is 3x higher.
I do not think this is too much to ask for either.
So they nerfed XP gear into the ground. And they even lowered HP monster settings for solo. Now solo should be able to compete with groups, or atleast the gap between solo and groups is closer. Wrong! 4-player groups are already doing Grift100+speeds, netting more then 1.000+bil XP/H. Solo player doing Grift70 speeds in about 8-10min is getting 100bil/H. Difference is more then x10. Look at the 4-player Leaderboard in Europe. People are already at 2000 paragon. This is only 1 month into the season. Still 2 months to go. End result: you will still run 10k+ main stat behind, just like last season. Byebye leaderboard dreams.
Nothing Changed.
This twisted sword+twister health globe support meta is way way to strong. And should have been nerfed long time ago. The amount of dmg Wiz can do is just mind boggling wrong. Which allows these super high 100+ grifts.
XP gear cains/borns/leorics helm/ring is still the best gear in the game, always has been since it existed, top groups use 3 SUPP and 2 of those 3 is XP supps, nothing changed Blizzard told all lies
No they do not, the support are in full tank gear with items that provide stat increases for the group. Not a single 80+ group is wearing XP gear, you need to stop this troll business.
All blizzard had to do is a stronger and more efficient dimishing return, so sfger lets say 1500 Paragon it gets EXTREMLY hard to gain more paragon levels.
I want a system like this as well, where paragon 1-800 is an almost linear increase in xp, and the exponential paragon increase starts at paragon 801, increasing at a much higher rate than the current rate, heck, maybe even 5x higher.
This limits the need/urge to grind paragon, but does not eliminate its usefulness. Even with all the grinding, the 4 man meta would be around para 1,000 at this point, and only like 1,075 after 2 months. 275 paragon levels is not an insurmountable gap for solo players to meet with GR fishing.
ok, what now? We all know that group meta is too strong. We all know Blizzard doesn't change skills/items in between a season. This season just has a group meta that exploits a game mechanic and a skill bug to get that high in the leaderboards.
We all know this. We know that Blizzard will do something against it AFTER the season. So how does this thread help?
People are already P2000. Yes, of course they are. But they are also playing half a day, every day. Could you compete with that?
All I want is something like:
Group players play best meta and are 2,000 para playing 12 hours a day first 30 days of the season.
Solo players play their best speed farm build and are 1750 para playing 12 hours a day for first 30 days of the season.
This way, things are brought together a bit more. Right now the #'s are 2,000 and around 1,200 which simply does not cut it, that is 800*5=4,000 main stat. At 250*5= 1250 main stat, you can honestly compete on the leader board with the right rift, but not when that main stat is 3x higher.
I do not think this is too much to ask for either.
keep in mind that the worse the benefit of good groups, the more likely will bad groups not give a benefit at all, which means casual friends will hold you back.
That is fine, my goal for this is to have it where playing with friends 4 man that hold you back is nearly equal to playing solo. But a good 4 man is still going to be the best no matter what. Ultimate goal to limit what "best" means to a point where RNG can still allow the solo player to succeed, and by succeed I mean finish top 20 on the leaderboard for their respective class.
If we could turn off other people's spell effect like with pets and turrets multi would be much more playable. Multi player in d3 is probably the worst gaming experience ive had.
Bad design, there shouldnt be any experience multipliers, blizzard just wants to defend their always online mode, so they make decisions like this.
So they nerfed XP gear into the ground. And they even lowered HP monster settings for solo. Now solo should be able to compete with groups, or atleast the gap between solo and groups is closer. Wrong! 4-player groups are already doing Grift100+speeds, netting more then 1.000+bil XP/H. Solo player doing Grift70 speeds in about 8-10min is getting 100bil/H. Difference is more then x10. Look at the 4-player Leaderboard in Europe. People are already at 2000 paragon. This is only 1 month into the season. Still 2 months to go. End result: you will still run 10k+ main stat behind, just like last season. Byebye leaderboard dreams.
Nothing Changed.
This twisted sword+twister health globe support meta is way way to strong. And should have been nerfed long time ago. The amount of dmg Wiz can do is just mind boggling wrong. Which allows these super high 100+ grifts.
Not long ago players were more focused on wanting group rewards more pronounced than solo rewards. Weird right? Now it's the opposite. lmao
Shouldn't be too concerned for these so called super higher grifts that go above 100+. How many players accomplish this? Not many... the reason why the numbers become larger is a direct link to progression. The dev team will eventually squash numbers down when they become too high.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"This forum has become far too toxic for any meaningful discussion of
the game. I hope they can sort this out and get back to making a game
we can all enjoy without cheaters ruining it for everyone. Best wishes
all."-Hammer's view on diablo 3 forums 2014
So they nerfed XP gear into the ground. And they even lowered HP monster settings for solo. Now solo should be able to compete with groups, or atleast the gap between solo and groups is closer. Wrong! 4-player groups are already doing Grift100+speeds, netting more then 1.000+bil XP/H. Solo player doing Grift70 speeds in about 8-10min is getting 100bil/H. Difference is more then x10. Look at the 4-player Leaderboard in Europe. People are already at 2000 paragon. This is only 1 month into the season. Still 2 months to go. End result: you will still run 10k+ main stat behind, just like last season. Byebye leaderboard dreams.
Nothing Changed.
This twisted sword+twister health globe support meta is way way to strong. And should have been nerfed long time ago. The amount of dmg Wiz can do is just mind boggling wrong. Which allows these super high 100+ grifts.
The point is that Blizz wanted to close the gap between solo and group play. Thats why they made all these changes in the first place. But once again they failed. I actually could compete if the gap was closer. I'm at paragon 1.1k mostly solo/duo. But this game is a joke and I guess I should have known better, to believe anything would ever improve in D3. Boring meta, illusion of multiple builds. But its still the same 1 build rules in high grifts. Balance between classes is still bad. Just another season with power creep and higher dmg numbers, giving the illusion something changed. Well played Blizz. Nothing changed.
Its actually even worse then last season, because of Caldesann's Despair. These groups will very easely get rank100 gems into all of their gear+100 gems into rings/amulet. But whatever right. Most people are casual player that dont care, anyways. Guess I'll just have to wait for next season or play something else....
trying to be competitive in a multiplayer game as a solo player wont ever work whatever blizzard will do.
they might close the gap between solo and multiplayer but a co-op game leaderboard will always be topped with ppl who play together.
even if there was no twister thing , 4-man groups would always be faster/better due to class synergies and such.
no point crying over being a solo player, you won't top the leaderboards in this game ever as a solo-only player
The main reason behind the huge paragon differences is, and likely will continue to be, botting. Of course, there is, and will continue to be a difference between solo and MP - Not only is there the default 30% multiplier, but theres also synergy between classes, and as you can see at the higher lvl, synergy between support and damage, which further increases the gap. Blizzard, is, however, slamming down on botters recently, so its incredibly likely that we will see botters banned and the leaderboards wiped.
Also, there is an inherent diminishing return with paragon - The more paragon you have, the less it contributes to boosting your damage. I.E going from 0-200 paragon will boost your GR clear by, say, 5 lvls, similar for 201-400, but the amount of boost you get from the stats gets less and less - I.E. The gap from 3000-4000 isn't as much as the gap from 1000-2000, and the gap between 9000-10000 wouldn't be as much as the gap between 800-1300
Botting no doubt makes it worse, but I agree with the OP. Being able to speed run very high Grifts is key to fast Paragon progress since the XP you earn appears to scale up so significantly as you run higher and higher levels.
The meta this season is even more of a clusterf!ck than last season. I would love to hear Blizzard make an official comment on the massive disparity in dps potential between the Twister Wiz and everything else. My bet is we won't hear a peep from them. They tend to ignore their glaring failures as if they don't actually exist.
A fix to this as you call it a problem, put in paragon tiers of say 100 that way all the cry baby's who want to stretch their epeen can. very simple to implement, but then you would have all the no life's complaining about it, so a solution, play the game and enjoy life every once in a while or give up your life for a game.
What I do is find someone on the leaderboard of similar paragon and same build as me and set that as my goal/ what I am competing for. I know being a mostly solo player I won't compete with 2k paragoners but it really doesn't bother me too much, you just need to adjust your goals according to what you are actually competing against.
the XP gear is fine. it's the wiz-centric meta that's horrible.
Group players play best meta and are 2,000 para playing 12 hours a day first 30 days of the season.
Solo players play their best speed farm build and are 1750 para playing 12 hours a day for first 30 days of the season.
This way, things are brought together a bit more. Right now the #'s are 2,000 and around 1,200 which simply does not cut it, that is 800*5=4,000 main stat. At 250*5= 1250 main stat, you can honestly compete on the leader board with the right rift, but not when that main stat is 3x higher.
I do not think this is too much to ask for either.
This limits the need/urge to grind paragon, but does not eliminate its usefulness. Even with all the grinding, the 4 man meta would be around para 1,000 at this point, and only like 1,075 after 2 months. 275 paragon levels is not an insurmountable gap for solo players to meet with GR fishing.
That is fine, my goal for this is to have it where playing with friends 4 man that hold you back is nearly equal to playing solo. But a good 4 man is still going to be the best no matter what. Ultimate goal to limit what "best" means to a point where RNG can still allow the solo player to succeed, and by succeed I mean finish top 20 on the leaderboard for their respective class.
and why the hell party must gain the same xp as solo?
If we could turn off other people's spell effect like with pets and turrets multi would be much more playable. Multi player in d3 is probably the worst gaming experience ive had.
Bad design, there shouldnt be any experience multipliers, blizzard just wants to defend their always online mode, so they make decisions like this.
Shouldn't be too concerned for these so called super higher grifts that go above 100+. How many players accomplish this? Not many... the reason why the numbers become larger is a direct link to progression. The dev team will eventually squash numbers down when they become too high.
"This forum has become far too toxic for any meaningful discussion of
the game. I hope they can sort this out and get back to making a game
we can all enjoy without cheaters ruining it for everyone. Best wishes
all."-Hammer's view on diablo 3 forums 2014
There are no xp bonuses in greater rifts, not even for being in a group. Unless their tooltip is lying.
Go to inventory -> details and scroll to "bonus xp", there you will see a tooltip where it says "reduced by 100% in greater rifts".
It is an undocumented change.
Only reason 4 player groups earn more xp is because they clear higher tiers.
The only problem i have is that pushing the GR gives u a disadvantage compared to keep farming till the last weekof the season and then pushing.
If they could invent something different from xp that you gain for solo pushing your GR (e.g. some mats that you only get solo or whatelse)
Then pushing midseason would not feel as stupid as it does now, especially for the non casuals.
I think its best to have a balance between solo and groupplay and that could help.
Look at this image:
http://imgur.com/GYOnlLc
It's very clear that the multiplayer xp bonus is not active in greater rifts. If it is then their tooltip is lying.