Sabacca50, you make WoW sound like a giant terd... Although ive never played it
I like the idea that money runs the economy though, but i dont like the 'immersion factor' you were speaking of, it doesnt sound like they have added to the realism of the universe very much.
and i hate 'fedex' quests like "kill 20 X and receive X amount of X"
Dont mind the graphics, could be worse, i just pray they keep the Diablo style of graphics the same and dont make it all cartoony
I'm gonna list a few things here... Please read the conclusion at the bottom before you respond...
Inventory
-WoW has many item slots, which makes each individual item worth less.
Spells
-Every member of a class can learn the same spells as one another. The only exceptions are talents, but this is not as efficent as just having skill trees. Infact, it is horrible.
Stats
-You can't distrubute your stats in WoW. That design decision was a dumb one.
-You can respec yourself mutliple times. So much for a dedicated style char.
Attacking/Casting
-WoW has auto attack. Horrible... Graphics -Cartoony. I don't want Diablo to look like Samurai Pizza Cats Gameplay
-I can kill a tiger, while another tiger walks through my body. And that 2nd tiger doesnt give a shit about his buddy. The immersion factor is at 0!
-The game is all about pulling 1 monster while hes chilling with his monster buddies. Sometimes accidents happen and you pull 2... you know the rest...
-Fed Ex quests..
-I don't want to kill oversized rats anymore...
-No end to the game
-No boss of the game
-No hardcore mode, or single player
-Undead characters are not considered undead in the game
-Undead can be priests...
-Money runs the economy. This is too much like real life to me. I liked the Diablo "Items for Items" economy. I am probably the only one who thinks this though.
Business Model
-Monthly Fee
-Endless Expansions
Conclusion
Now this list has some big issues, as well as many little issues. The little things do matter; Infact they are critical! So this is why I am afraid of WoW players designing Diablo III. They will be forced by Blizzard(Morhaime) to keep Diablo III, like Diablo II and I, in the skeletal sense (same Camera Angle, same Hack N Slash). However, with their WoW influences, I think they will screw up many small features that will end up hurting the Diablo experience. They will try to force features from WoW into the Diablo universe.
I mean, imagine if you couldn't distribute your stat points! That 1 small change would make D3 worthless!
You sir, are a retard. You probably don't know that WoW got alot of its influences from Diablo. WoW is very similar to Diablo, just MMO and a couple stuff thrown in. In essence its what I want Diablo to look like, that Diablo takes WoW and changes things here and there. To expand on whats been done already.
Here I'll clarify a bit. Diablo and Diablo 2 were record-breaking when they were introduced. Then WoW came along and took alot of what Diablo 2 had and expanded on tons of stuff. You got ingame channels, guild, auction house for better trading experience, mail! A bank you can expand. Your entire post was to bash WoW. You said to wait and read to the bottom, where you bashed it again. Personally I like it alot. I think its awesome, though Diablo is still better. If Diablo borrows alot from WoW (which they will) and expands on it and adds alot of other stuff, it will really knock your socks off. But ranting on like this about a game that 9 million people play at any given time, thats just stupid.
I've always called for open-mindedness about WoW, here in the forums. But more and more idiots like you start ranting about it and hating on it for no particular reason. At this point I feel like I have to fight back against your stupid and intollerant views. WoW has nothing to do with Diablo not have come out yet. There hasn't been a full staff for Diablo until now, and I'm sure they are working their asses off to get it out as soon as possible but still holding the Blizzard code of standards.
You sir, are a retard. You probably don't know that WoW got alot of its influences from Diablo. WoW is very similar to Diablo, just MMO and a couple stuff thrown in. In essence its what I want Diablo to look like, that Diablo takes WoW and changes things here and there. To expand on whats been done already.
Here I'll clarify a bit. Diablo and Diablo 2 were record-breaking when they were introduced. Then WoW came along and took alot of what Diablo 2 had and expanded on tons of stuff. You got ingame channels, guild, auction house for better trading experience, mail! A bank you can expand. Your entire post was to bash WoW. You said to wait and read to the bottom, where you bashed it again. Personally I like it alot. I think its awesome, though Diablo is still better. If Diablo borrows alot from WoW (which they will) and expands on it and adds alot of other stuff, it will really knock your socks off. But ranting on like this about a game that 9 million people play at any given time, thats just stupid.
I've always called for open-mindedness about WoW, here in the forums. But more and more idiots like you start ranting about it and hating on it for no particular reason. At this point I feel like I have to fight back against your stupid and intollerant views. WoW has nothing to do with Diablo not have come out yet. There hasn't been a full staff for Diablo until now, and I'm sure they are working their asses off to get it out as soon as possible but still holding the Blizzard code of standards.
I am on Sabacca's side solely because I don't like WoW and I don't like the elements which he specifically pointed out. WoW is a very popular and a great game to many, but I am not one to fall into the crowd. I will say there are some values in WoW that could possibly be incorporated with Diablo and make the game better such as what you said, the auction house. Yes WoW did get influences from Diablo.... of course it did, but that doesn't mean those expanded ideas will necessarily help Diablo, such as the fighting style, skill selection, character classes, (What sabacca said). In my opinion WoW has corrupted Blizzards Company with graphics alone, SC2 looks so much like WoW I almost don't want to buy the game, it was supposed to have a realistic feel but now it is cartoony. It's painful to say but if Diablo is cartoony like WoW there is no way in hell I am buying that game. I hope you understand what I am trying to say.....
Oh yeah, you have apparently been playing too much WoW.
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Dream as if you'll live forever, and live as if you'll die today. "James Dean"
I am on Sabacca's side solely because I don't like WoW and I don't like the elements which he specifically pointed out. WoW is a very popular and a great game to many, but I am not one to fall into the crowd. I will say there are some values in WoW that could possibly be incorporated with Diablo and make the game better such as what you said, the auction house. Yes WoW did get influences from Diablo.... of course it did, but that doesn't mean those expanded ideas will necessarily help Diablo, such as the fighting style, skill selection, character classes, (What sabacca said). In my opinion WoW has corrupted Blizzards Company with graphics alone, SC2 looks so much like WoW I almost don't want to buy the game, it was supposed to have a realistic feel but now it is cartoony. It's painful to say but if Diablo is cartoony like WoW there is no way in hell I am buying that game. I hope you understand what I am trying to say.....
Oh yeah, you have apparently been playing too much WoW.
I thought you could hold the mouse button down for auto attack in Diablo 2? Could just be my faulty memory...
Anyhow, crying about them changing the graphics and names etc seems pretty stupid as these are all part of the accumulated lore and feel of Sanctuary. If they're going to do that, they might as well buy Mythos off Flagship and call it Diablo 3 and it will be an inferior Diablo 3.
A little bit of sensibility goes a long way in a topic like this. Rather than things like WOW is an MMO therefore everything in it sucks and Diablo would suck because it would be an MMO too and I don't wanna pay!
The true Diablo fan will see money as nothing next to the demon. I'll gladly pay for it, long as they keep out hackers and dupers and keep the lag down.
WoW and Diablo are two different playstyles. One is built for a massive world that can't stop. You don't just end one WoW server and start another one. It's built basically like the majority, if not all, other MMO's out there!
Diablo was basically made for people to group up in user created games and either fight or complete a linear storyline.
WoW had gotten a lot of influences from Diablo... why? Becuase Diablo was the first RPG that Blizzard created, and it was a success! No doubt that would use many of the mechanics in thier own MMORPG.
Now there are many things about WoW that are awsome! What you need to do is be able to basically convert that in to something that would fit into the world of Diablo.... Inventory
-WoW has many item slots, which makes each individual item worth less.
-- Diablo had inventory slots as well... its just that most items took up more than one slot. With the Diablo expansion they increased your inventory size. Now I don't excatly get how that makes every individual item worthless
Spells
-Every member of a class can learn the same spells as one another. The only exceptions are talents, but this is not as efficent as just having skill trees. Infact, it is horrible.
--Talents have a huge impact on the game. You are able to get spells and abilites that others may not get depending on which tree you go into. And look at Diablo. My warrior was able to learn any spell as long as he could find the book... There were no builds in the original Diablo and that was pretty damn awsome. It was D2 which produces the ability trees, and since WoW is an MMO you need to have balance and gives millions of people a base amount of spells they will need to make thier class useful. Then they turn to trees to power up a certain set of abilities they have.
Stats
-You can't distrubute your stats in WoW. That design decision was a dumb one.
-You can respec yourself mutliple times. So much for a dedicated style char.
--Dedicated playstyle? How would you feel if you had spent a month or so to finally hit the max level only to realize that you don't like this build anymore? Should you be forced to re-level the same cahracter all over again just so you have to stick to another tree? This is why I always loved the plugy add-on for diablo. I don't like to think that I don't have the ability to control my destiny. I don't like being stuck. As for the Stats... They probably needed to balance classes this way, at least in MMO form.
Attacking/Casting
-WoW has auto attack. Horrible...
--Again this is standard for MMO games. It would never make it into a Diablo game because Diablo is hack and slash, and Blizzard knows this... they are not idiots. Graphics
-Cartoony. I don't want Diablo to look like Samurai Pizza Cats --This is basically the style of Warcraft... not Diablo Gameplay
-I can kill a tiger, while another tiger walks through my body. And that 2nd tiger doesnt give a shit about his buddy. The immersion factor is at 0!
-The game is all about pulling 1 monster while hes chilling with his monster buddies. Sometimes accidents happen and you pull 2... you know the rest...
-Fed Ex quests..
-I don't want to kill oversized rats anymore...
-No end to the game
-No boss of the game
-No hardcore mode, or single player
-Undead characters are not considered undead in the game
-Undead can be priests...
-Money runs the economy. This is too much like real life to me. I liked the Diablo "Items for Items" economy. I am probably the only one who thinks this though.
Again your confusing the MMO world with Diablo. There is no Boss in WoW because WoW cant end! If it ended people wouldn't play it anymore! And technically there were bosses, they were raid bosses. They wern't the end of the game, but than again there is no end! Hardcore mode would be HORRIBLE!!! HORRIBLE idea for an MMO! Diablo wasn't items for items... thats just what happens when a bunch of hackers dupe some rings. Gold was made obselete and yet it dropped by the shitload. Business Model
-Monthly Fee
-Endless Expansions
Again... MMO. You pay to keep servers running 24/7 and smooth. You pay to get content in the forum of patches and updates and you pay to make sure that your account wont be deleted after 3 months of not being used (and I think thats not in effect ne more...)
Again your taking what you don't like abouit MMO's in general and think that for some reason if the Devs of D3 liked WoW that they would make Diablo into some sort of single player MMO-like game. They know the difference and they know what Diablo is all about. and I don't feel like typing anymore.
Does SC2 still have that 'explosive gore' that the original had? or has it gone mega cartoony
see any similarities?
Quote from "Carloseus" »
Your another idiot. You make my point even stronger, that there are so many stereotypes and that someone can't play WoW as well as do other stuff.
You didn't understand what that was supposed to mean. You play WoW correct? and you want to change D3 to something more like WoW correct?
Cool, look thats my argument, imagine that.....
Quote from "Carloseus" »
The true Diablo fan will see money as nothing next to the demon. I'll gladly pay for it, long as they keep out hackers and dupers and keep the lag down.
Weren't we focused on game play, graphics, and key concepts of WoW not just an MMO?
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Dream as if you'll live forever, and live as if you'll die today. "James Dean"
No. I see a game that has had to change it's graphics to fit a 3D world.
I'm still not sure why you think they will make D3 into a wow clone even if every programmer is an avid wow player. They are two different game styles. Blizzard are not stupid, and I don't think D3 would suffer one bit from programmers with a broader range of experience.
I would be so disappointed if Diablo 3 came out very similar to D2 with different acts.
Carl, I mean seriously... Calling me a retard, thanks. And then you go and call me an idiot! I'm Mcloving it!
Carl, the list I compiled are things that exist in the World of Warcraft. This is fact. These features are examples of design decisions that would effect Diablo III in a negative way. I will elaborate in a moment.
I applaud Sandman53. He is a WoW fan like you Carl, yet he is trying to explain himself in a professional manner. And Carl, you should realize that WoW's biggest influence is not Diablo. No, it isn't even Warcraft. It's biggest influence is Everquest. Both WoW and EQ, at their core, are the same.
Ok I will elaborate now.
Inventory
-WoW has many item slots, which makes each individual item worth less.
I am talking about equippable item slots here, not your 4x10 inventory. World of Warcraft has 20 equippable item slots, while Diablo 2 has 10. The reason I like less equippable item slots, is because every item is worth a lot more to the character. You need 10 good items, and if you only 8 good items, you are feeling it. In WoW, if you have 18 good items, and 2 crappy ones, it doesn't affect the character as much as the Diablo 2 situation would.
Also, I like how Polearms took more inventory space than a ring. This is not the case in WoW.
So you can see my concern Carl. If Diablo 3 had a WoW inventory, it would lower the value of each item. Why? because there are so many slots, that you can get your bonuses elsewhere.
Spells
-Every member of a class can learn the same spells as one another. The only exceptions are talents, but this is not as efficent as just having skill trees. Infact, it is horrible.
I am not a fan of "everyone in this class gets all their spells". In Diablo 2, the skill trees made it very interesting because you could powerup certain spells, without learning every spell. In WoW, you can power up certain spells with talents, but you still can cast fire spells, even if you went ice. This hurts character uniqueness.
Stats
-You can't distrubute your stats in WoW. That design decision was a dumb one.
-You can respec yourself mutliple times. So much for a dedicated style char.
You can't distribute your stats in WoW. You must agree with me here Carl, and Sandman, that this is a design flaw. I know that if I asked both of you, if you could distribute your stats in WoW would you? Both of you would say yes. You cite balance Sandman, and that may be true, but I think it is more for newbie protection, so they don't screw up their stats and have to restart. Why didn't they just let you respec your stats???
I only have 1 problem with respecing. It is that if you can do it multiple times, than your character can just keep changing with no identity of its own. For example, I am a mage, I go fire, then in the next raid, I go Ice, then in the next raid, I go arcane. Characters lose their uniqueness, and have no identity. Attacking/Casting
-WoW has auto attack. Horrible...
Auto Attack is horrible. It makes the game slow, boring, and less immersive. This is where WoW fails. Just because it is an MMORPG doesnt mean it should have auto attack. I elaborate more about this in the Gameplay section. Graphics -Cartoony. I don't want Diablo to look like Samurai Pizza Cats
I like WoWs graphics. Yes, I did just compliment the game Carl. However, I do not want WoW's graphical style in a Diablo game. Gameplay
-I can kill a tiger, while another tiger walks through my body. And that 2nd tiger doesnt give a shit about his buddy. The immersion factor is at 0!
Do I even need to comment... This is because of Auto Attack. Games designed with auto attack are about 1vs1 battles, and the characters can't usually handle 2vs1. That is the reason why all the monsters and animals don't care about eachother.
-The game is all about pulling 1 monster while hes chilling with his monster buddies. Sometimes accidents happen and you pull 2... you know the rest...
Again. Auto Attack. You have to realize that Auto Attack isn't just a feature in WoW. It is the game. Everyone who has ever played an MMO knows of this situation, trying to pull/aggro 1 monster when there are 3 or 4 around. Let me repeat. This is the game. This is what you do for 70 levels. It is not fun, it is frustrating, it is annoying and it is boring.
Why is it all about pulling 1 monster while he is chilling with his pals? Why is it I can kill a tiger infront of his buddies, and the other tigers dont give a crap? Why is it that when I swing my sword, and it goes through the monster, I still miss? Why is it that when I am running away from a monster, he can still hit me, even when I am 20 ft away???
ANSWER: Auto Attack.
-Fed Ex quests..
You know what World of Warcraft makes you feel like? A bitch. Go fucking deliver this mail to my mom. Go kill a rat and drain its blood. Yea.. I feel like I'm apart of an epic storyline...
In Diablo, there were never unnessecessary quests, or quests that made you feel like a bitch. I don't want this in D3. Do you?
-I don't want to kill oversized rats anymore...
Have you played EQ?
-No end to the game -No boss of the game
I can say that I have beaten Diablo II. You cannot say that you beaten World of Warcraft. I really want to say that I have beaten D3. I hope this is achievable.
-No hardcore mode, or single player
I want Diablo 3 to have a hardcore mode, and a single player mode. Do you?
-Undead characters are not considered undead in the game
-Undead can be priests...
Lets say, In Diablo 3, you can be a vampire as a character class. If Im a paladin, and I go hostile on you, I want my Holy Bolt to do some damage. Don't you?
So I holy bolt him, and they he casts holy light. What!?
-Money runs the economy. This is too much like real life to me. I liked the Diablo "Items for Items" economy. I am probably the only one who thinks this though.
If you have money in WoW, you can buy whatever you like. I think thats too easy. All you got to do is farm gold. In Diablo, you have to find your own stuff, or find other stuff and trade it for stuff you want. This is much more fun because you have to make deals with players. I want to strike deals in Diablo 3! Business Model
-Monthly Fee
-Endless Expansions
For the Monthly Fees, please refer to threads "There gonna screw up D3", and "Poll: Would you pay to play Diablo III?". I explain in mutliple places why monthly fees are not needed.
As for Endless Expansions. Like I have said before, I want to be able to beat the game.
-Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only, truth.
Carl, I mean seriously... Calling me a retard, thanks. And then you go and call me an idiot! I'm Mcloving it!
Carl, the list I compiled are things that exist in the World of Warcraft. This is fact. These features are examples of design decisions that would effect Diablo III in a negative way. I will elaborate in a moment.
I applaud Sandman53. He is a WoW fan like you Carl, yet he is trying to explain himself in a professional manner. And Carl, you should realize that WoW's biggest influence is not Diablo. No, it isn't even Warcraft. It's biggest influence is Everquest. Both WoW and EQ, at their core, are the same.
Ok I will elaborate now.
Inventory
-WoW has many item slots, which makes each individual item worth less.
I am talking about equippable item slots here, not your 4x10 inventory. World of Warcraft has 20 equippable item slots, while Diablo 2 has 10. The reason I like less equippable item slots, is because every item is worth a lot more to the character. You need 10 good items, and if you only 8 good items, you are feeling it. In WoW, if you have 18 good items, and 2 crappy ones, it doesn't affect the character as much as the Diablo 2 situation would.
Also, I like how Polearms took more inventory space than a ring. This is not the case in WoW.
So you can see my concern Carl. If Diablo 3 had a WoW inventory, it would lower the value of each item. Why? because there are so many slots, that you can get your bonuses elsewhere.
Spells
-Every member of a class can learn the same spells as one another. The only exceptions are talents, but this is not as efficent as just having skill trees. Infact, it is horrible.
I am not a fan of "everyone in this class gets all their spells". In Diablo 2, the skill trees made it very interesting because you could powerup certain spells, without learning every spell. In WoW, you can power up certain spells with talents, but you still can cast fire spells, even if you went ice. This hurts character uniqueness.
Stats
-You can't distrubute your stats in WoW. That design decision was a dumb one.
-You can respec yourself mutliple times. So much for a dedicated style char.
You can't distribute your stats in WoW. You must agree with me here Carl, and Sandman, that this is a design flaw. I know that if I asked both of you, if you could distribute your stats in WoW would you? Both of you would say yes. You cite balance Sandman, and that may be true, but I think it is more for newbie protection, so they don't screw up their stats and have to restart. Why didn't they just let you respec your stats???
I only have 1 problem with respecing. It is that if you can do it multiple times, than your character can just keep changing with no identity of its own. For example, I am a mage, I go fire, then in the next raid, I go Ice, then in the next raid, I go arcane. Characters lose their uniqueness, and have no identity. Attacking/Casting
-WoW has auto attack. Horrible...
Auto Attack is horrible. It makes the game slow, boring, and less immersive. This is where WoW fails. Just because it is an MMORPG doesnt mean it should have auto attack. I elaborate more about this in the Gameplay section. Graphics -Cartoony. I don't want Diablo to look like Samurai Pizza Cats
I like WoWs graphics. Yes, I did just compliment the game Carl. However, I do not want WoW's graphical style in a Diablo game. Gameplay
-I can kill a tiger, while another tiger walks through my body. And that 2nd tiger doesnt give a shit about his buddy. The immersion factor is at 0!
Do I even need to comment... This is because of Auto Attack. Games designed with auto attack are about 1vs1 battles, and the characters can't usually handle 2vs1. That is the reason why all the monsters and animals don't care about eachother.
-The game is all about pulling 1 monster while hes chilling with his monster buddies. Sometimes accidents happen and you pull 2... you know the rest...
Again. Auto Attack. You have to realize that Auto Attack isn't just a feature in WoW. It is the game. Everyone who has ever played an MMO knows of this situation, trying to pull/aggro 1 monster when there are 3 or 4 around. Let me repeat. This is the game. This is what you do for 70 levels. It is not fun, it is frustrating, it is annoying and it is boring.
Why is it all about pulling 1 monster while he is chilling with his pals? Why is it I can kill a tiger infront of his buddies, and the other tigers dont give a crap? Why is it that when I swing my sword, and it goes through the monster, I still miss? Why is it that when I am running away from a monster, he can still hit me, even when I am 20 ft away???
ANSWER: Auto Attack.
-Fed Ex quests..
You know what World of Warcraft makes you feel like? A bitch. Go fucking deliver this mail to my mom. Go kill a rat and drain its blood. Yea.. I feel like I'm apart of an epic storyline...
In Diablo, there were never unnessecessary quests, or quests that made you feel like a bitch. I don't want this in D3. Do you?
-I don't want to kill oversized rats anymore...
Have you played EQ?
-No end to the game -No boss of the game
I can say that I have beaten Diablo II. You cannot say that you beaten World of Warcraft. I really want to say that I have beaten D3. I hope this is achievable.
-No hardcore mode, or single player
I want Diablo 3 to have a hardcore mode, and a single player mode. Do you?
-Undead characters are not considered undead in the game
-Undead can be priests...
Lets say, In Diablo 3, you can be a vampire as a character class. If Im a paladin, and I go hostile on you, I want my Holy Bolt to do some damage. Don't you?
So I holy bolt him, and they he casts holy light. What!?
-Money runs the economy. This is too much like real life to me. I liked the Diablo "Items for Items" economy. I am probably the only one who thinks this though.
If you have money in WoW, you can buy whatever you like. I think thats too easy. All you got to do is farm gold. In Diablo, you have to find your own stuff, or find other stuff and trade it for stuff you want. This is much more fun because you have to make deals with players. I want to strike deals in Diablo 3! Business Model
-Monthly Fee
-Endless Expansions
For the Monthly Fees, please refer to threads "There gonna screw up D3", and "Poll: Would you pay to play Diablo III?". I explain in mutliple places why monthly fees are not needed.
As for Endless Expansions. Like I have said before, I want to be able to beat the game.
So Carl, do I sound like a retard? An idiot? Do I?
Well, I still disagree with you but at least now you don't sound like a ranting retard. Maybe next time you should stop and read your post before you push Submit Reply. Oh, and like I said, I'm through with professionalism on this topic unless the person I am facing is professional. Read your post again, and you'll see that there was not much professionalism. The reason I'm done with it is because you sounded like every other stupidass that comes here and bashes WoW. If you take my history into consideration you would know that I have a point, and reason to shoot you down.
Gameplay -I can kill a tiger, while another tiger walks through my body. And that 2nd tiger doesnt give a shit about his buddy. The immersion factor is at 0!
Do I even need to comment... This is because of Auto Attack. Games designed with auto attack are about 1vs1 battles, and the characters can't usually handle 2vs1. That is the reason why all the monsters and animals don't care about eachother.
-The game is all about pulling 1 monster while hes chilling with his monster buddies. Sometimes accidents happen and you pull 2... you know the rest...
Again. Auto Attack. You have to realize that Auto Attack isn't just a feature in WoW. It is the game. Everyone who has ever played an MMO knows of this situation, trying to pull/aggro 1 monster when there are 3 or 4 around. Let me repeat. This is the game. This is what you do for 70 levels. It is not fun, it is frustrating, it is annoying and it is boring.
Why is it all about pulling 1 monster while he is chilling with his pals? Why is it I can kill a tiger infront of his buddies, and the other tigers dont give a crap? Why is it that when I swing my sword, and it goes through the monster, I still miss? Why is it that when I am running away from a monster, he can still hit me, even when I am 20 ft away???
ANSWER: Auto Attack.
I'm sorry but this is such a load of crap.
Auto attack is not about making a boring game, it is about meaning you don't have to click 1,000 times an hour extra. Sure if you're a boring player who doesn't use skills or brains just use auto attack. If you're a half decent player you take on groups of monsters.
There are lots of different fighting styles in WoW, and trying to claim that auto attack is the sign of a boring game is just stupid (or you haven't played wow and understand how the game mechanics work). Also you are pretty much glorifying Diablo here, You spec for an attack then you use that attack and not much else.
Have you played EQ?
-No end to the game -No boss of the game
I can say that I have beaten Diablo II. You cannot say that you beaten World of Warcraft. I really want to say that I have beaten D3. I hope this is achievable.
When D2: Lod was released suddenly it meant you hadn't completed the game. This wasn't the end of the world it was exciting with new stuff to do. This is the nature of expansions, and due to the investment they will expand MMO's more.
This is more about Diablo 3 being an MMORPG vs RPG. The decision to make Diablo an MMO or RPG has nothing to do with the Lead designer, more with the management team of Blizzard.
Negative to the 99th power, anything incorporated with WoW is gay
well im sorry you feel that way
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He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.
~Aeschylus :cool:
WOW will influence D3, just like Diablo influenced WOW, hopefully, D3 draws more inspiration from the Diablo series than the WOW series.
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-Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only, truth.
I love the idea of gold coins running the economy... it still doesnt mean that you cant barter items, but isnt trading with gold more realistic than everyone carrying around hundreds of these rings or runes? as well as easier to manage.
Diablo is based on a medieval fantasy world right? and im pretty sure that in these times alot of people used a currency to trade for things
yes, but often when someone had no money they would trade an item (or two).
not sell it to the vendor and hope you get enough money to buy the item you want from them. although thats how it works in (most) games. i cant recall a game which allowed you to trade say a sword for an axe directly.
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-Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only, truth.
yes, but often when someone had no money they would trade an item (or two).
not sell it to the vendor and hope you get enough money to buy the item you want from them. although thats how it works in (most) games. i cant recall a game which allowed you to trade say a sword for an axe directly.
In Diablo its different, because the good-best items are from drops, and those are only traded. Therefore, gold plays no important role.
Carl, besides some jokes about samurai pizza cats, I really don't see anything offensive in that post. The conclusion especially is very upfront and just states that the features that I listed would hinder the Diablo experience if they were implemented in D3.
Its cool Carl. I think you were already angry at Blades111 (I cite the page 2 "Shoot yourself...", and tried to take it out on me. I have been a member long enough here to know about the crazy folks you mention.
You must agree though Carl, that many features that I listed would hurt the Diablo experience if implemented in D3.
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Now for you Mr. Khaan. I must ask this, have you seen Wrath of Khan? You should check it out...
Auto Attack is bad. It stagnates combat, making it boring. It also is designed for 1vs1 combat, which slows the game down as well. Sure Khan, there are a few instances where you can be successful in 2 or 3vs1 battles, but the game is not designed for it.
What is Auto Attack Khan??? I will tell you. You and a monster are fighting. You are not moving, and they are not moving. You are standing still, hitting eachother slowly. There is no way to dodge each other by moving, and even if you slice your sword through the enemy, it doesn't mean you are hitting them. I don't know about you, but I'm already bored. Also, since auto attack uses a radius for enemies, you can be running away from them, and have 20 ft of ingame space between you, yet the monster still hits you! Awesome!
Wait, there is more... I continue to press 1,2,3,4 in the appropriate order to keep casting my spells right when their cooldown expires. Yes, the only keys I am hitting are 1,2,3 and 4. Hell, since I auto attacked so many monsters trying to get to the next level (1 monster at a time mind you), I have memorized the cool down times. I dont even need to look at the screen when I'm attacking. I can watch TV, or a movie. Hell, I dont even need 2 hands to play. Just 1,2,3, and 4 until the monster dies.
Auto Attack does ruin the game, because like I have mentioned above, you are not even playing the game anymore. The game loses its immersion factor by 100%. You don't even need 2 hands to play.
I'm not done yet...
Since the game is auto attack and designed for 1vs1 combat, it is all about pulling 1 monster at a time. This is the game, as I have mentioned. If you are shitty at pulling 1 monster while he chills with his buddies, you will pull more than you can handle, and keep dying, effectively stopping your progress through the game. If you are good at pulling 1 monster at a time, you will suceed in the game. Therefore, as I have shown, the game of WoW is all about pulling safely.
About the expansions. Yes. Diablo 2 has an Expansion. But you can beat the expansion because there is a boss to it. And since there is no more expansions to Diablo 2, you can beat the game. In WoW, there is no boss figure. Also, there will be endless expansion that continue to not have boss figures. Therefore, you cannot beat the game. Sure, Kahn, there are raid bosses, but they are not the bosses of the entire expansion.
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That list was what I saw to be problems in WoW, and things that do not belong in a Diablo title.
Like I said in my original list. They will keep the skeletal game the same because they have to. I am worried though, that if a WoWer is in charge of the design team, they might do things that will ruin the diablo experience. Stuff like expand the inventory to 20 equippable slots, change the spell system so that you learn all the spells and invest in the ones you like, etc...
I have a challange for all you WoWers out there like Carl and Khan. I listed things that are in WoW that I think would hurt Diablo 3. Why don't you guys get together and lists things from WoW that you think would work well in D3.
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I like the idea that money runs the economy though, but i dont like the 'immersion factor' you were speaking of, it doesnt sound like they have added to the realism of the universe very much.
and i hate 'fedex' quests like "kill 20 X and receive X amount of X"
Dont mind the graphics, could be worse, i just pray they keep the Diablo style of graphics the same and dont make it all cartoony
You sir, are a retard. You probably don't know that WoW got alot of its influences from Diablo. WoW is very similar to Diablo, just MMO and a couple stuff thrown in. In essence its what I want Diablo to look like, that Diablo takes WoW and changes things here and there. To expand on whats been done already.
Here I'll clarify a bit. Diablo and Diablo 2 were record-breaking when they were introduced. Then WoW came along and took alot of what Diablo 2 had and expanded on tons of stuff. You got ingame channels, guild, auction house for better trading experience, mail! A bank you can expand. Your entire post was to bash WoW. You said to wait and read to the bottom, where you bashed it again. Personally I like it alot. I think its awesome, though Diablo is still better. If Diablo borrows alot from WoW (which they will) and expands on it and adds alot of other stuff, it will really knock your socks off. But ranting on like this about a game that 9 million people play at any given time, thats just stupid.
I've always called for open-mindedness about WoW, here in the forums. But more and more idiots like you start ranting about it and hating on it for no particular reason. At this point I feel like I have to fight back against your stupid and intollerant views. WoW has nothing to do with Diablo not have come out yet. There hasn't been a full staff for Diablo until now, and I'm sure they are working their asses off to get it out as soon as possible but still holding the Blizzard code of standards.
I am on Sabacca's side solely because I don't like WoW and I don't like the elements which he specifically pointed out. WoW is a very popular and a great game to many, but I am not one to fall into the crowd. I will say there are some values in WoW that could possibly be incorporated with Diablo and make the game better such as what you said, the auction house. Yes WoW did get influences from Diablo.... of course it did, but that doesn't mean those expanded ideas will necessarily help Diablo, such as the fighting style, skill selection, character classes, (What sabacca said). In my opinion WoW has corrupted Blizzards Company with graphics alone, SC2 looks so much like WoW I almost don't want to buy the game, it was supposed to have a realistic feel but now it is cartoony. It's painful to say but if Diablo is cartoony like WoW there is no way in hell I am buying that game. I hope you understand what I am trying to say.....
Oh yeah, you have apparently been playing too much WoW.
Your another idiot. You make my point even stronger, that there are so many stereotypes and that someone can't play WoW as well as do other stuff.
I thought you could hold the mouse button down for auto attack in Diablo 2? Could just be my faulty memory...
Anyhow, crying about them changing the graphics and names etc seems pretty stupid as these are all part of the accumulated lore and feel of Sanctuary. If they're going to do that, they might as well buy Mythos off Flagship and call it Diablo 3 and it will be an inferior Diablo 3.
A little bit of sensibility goes a long way in a topic like this. Rather than things like WOW is an MMO therefore everything in it sucks and Diablo would suck because it would be an MMO too and I don't wanna pay!
Diablo was basically made for people to group up in user created games and either fight or complete a linear storyline.
WoW had gotten a lot of influences from Diablo... why? Becuase Diablo was the first RPG that Blizzard created, and it was a success! No doubt that would use many of the mechanics in thier own MMORPG.
Now there are many things about WoW that are awsome! What you need to do is be able to basically convert that in to something that would fit into the world of Diablo....
Inventory
-WoW has many item slots, which makes each individual item worth less.
-- Diablo had inventory slots as well... its just that most items took up more than one slot. With the Diablo expansion they increased your inventory size. Now I don't excatly get how that makes every individual item worthless
Spells
-Every member of a class can learn the same spells as one another. The only exceptions are talents, but this is not as efficent as just having skill trees. Infact, it is horrible.
--Talents have a huge impact on the game. You are able to get spells and abilites that others may not get depending on which tree you go into. And look at Diablo. My warrior was able to learn any spell as long as he could find the book... There were no builds in the original Diablo and that was pretty damn awsome. It was D2 which produces the ability trees, and since WoW is an MMO you need to have balance and gives millions of people a base amount of spells they will need to make thier class useful. Then they turn to trees to power up a certain set of abilities they have.
Stats
-You can't distrubute your stats in WoW. That design decision was a dumb one.
-You can respec yourself mutliple times. So much for a dedicated style char.
--Dedicated playstyle? How would you feel if you had spent a month or so to finally hit the max level only to realize that you don't like this build anymore? Should you be forced to re-level the same cahracter all over again just so you have to stick to another tree? This is why I always loved the plugy add-on for diablo. I don't like to think that I don't have the ability to control my destiny. I don't like being stuck. As for the Stats... They probably needed to balance classes this way, at least in MMO form.
Attacking/Casting
-WoW has auto attack. Horrible...
--Again this is standard for MMO games. It would never make it into a Diablo game because Diablo is hack and slash, and Blizzard knows this... they are not idiots.
Graphics
-Cartoony. I don't want Diablo to look like Samurai Pizza Cats --This is basically the style of Warcraft... not Diablo
Gameplay
-I can kill a tiger, while another tiger walks through my body. And that 2nd tiger doesnt give a shit about his buddy. The immersion factor is at 0!
-The game is all about pulling 1 monster while hes chilling with his monster buddies. Sometimes accidents happen and you pull 2... you know the rest...
-Fed Ex quests..
-I don't want to kill oversized rats anymore...
-No end to the game
-No boss of the game
-No hardcore mode, or single player
-Undead characters are not considered undead in the game
-Undead can be priests...
-Money runs the economy. This is too much like real life to me. I liked the Diablo "Items for Items" economy. I am probably the only one who thinks this though.
Again your confusing the MMO world with Diablo. There is no Boss in WoW because WoW cant end! If it ended people wouldn't play it anymore! And technically there were bosses, they were raid bosses. They wern't the end of the game, but than again there is no end! Hardcore mode would be HORRIBLE!!! HORRIBLE idea for an MMO! Diablo wasn't items for items... thats just what happens when a bunch of hackers dupe some rings. Gold was made obselete and yet it dropped by the shitload.
Business Model
-Monthly Fee
-Endless Expansions
Again... MMO. You pay to keep servers running 24/7 and smooth. You pay to get content in the forum of patches and updates and you pay to make sure that your account wont be deleted after 3 months of not being used (and I think thats not in effect ne more...)
Again your taking what you don't like abouit MMO's in general and think that for some reason if the Devs of D3 liked WoW that they would make Diablo into some sort of single player MMO-like game. They know the difference and they know what Diablo is all about. and I don't feel like typing anymore.
see any similarities?
You didn't understand what that was supposed to mean. You play WoW correct? and you want to change D3 to something more like WoW correct?
Cool, look thats my argument, imagine that.....
Weren't we focused on game play, graphics, and key concepts of WoW not just an MMO?
No. I see a game that has had to change it's graphics to fit a 3D world.
I'm still not sure why you think they will make D3 into a wow clone even if every programmer is an avid wow player. They are two different game styles. Blizzard are not stupid, and I don't think D3 would suffer one bit from programmers with a broader range of experience.
I would be so disappointed if Diablo 3 came out very similar to D2 with different acts.
Carl, the list I compiled are things that exist in the World of Warcraft. This is fact. These features are examples of design decisions that would effect Diablo III in a negative way. I will elaborate in a moment.
I applaud Sandman53. He is a WoW fan like you Carl, yet he is trying to explain himself in a professional manner. And Carl, you should realize that WoW's biggest influence is not Diablo. No, it isn't even Warcraft. It's biggest influence is Everquest. Both WoW and EQ, at their core, are the same.
Ok I will elaborate now.
Inventory
-WoW has many item slots, which makes each individual item worth less.
I am talking about equippable item slots here, not your 4x10 inventory. World of Warcraft has 20 equippable item slots, while Diablo 2 has 10. The reason I like less equippable item slots, is because every item is worth a lot more to the character. You need 10 good items, and if you only 8 good items, you are feeling it. In WoW, if you have 18 good items, and 2 crappy ones, it doesn't affect the character as much as the Diablo 2 situation would.
Also, I like how Polearms took more inventory space than a ring. This is not the case in WoW.
So you can see my concern Carl. If Diablo 3 had a WoW inventory, it would lower the value of each item. Why? because there are so many slots, that you can get your bonuses elsewhere.
Spells
-Every member of a class can learn the same spells as one another. The only exceptions are talents, but this is not as efficent as just having skill trees. Infact, it is horrible.
I am not a fan of "everyone in this class gets all their spells". In Diablo 2, the skill trees made it very interesting because you could powerup certain spells, without learning every spell. In WoW, you can power up certain spells with talents, but you still can cast fire spells, even if you went ice. This hurts character uniqueness.
Stats
-You can't distrubute your stats in WoW. That design decision was a dumb one.
-You can respec yourself mutliple times. So much for a dedicated style char.
You can't distribute your stats in WoW. You must agree with me here Carl, and Sandman, that this is a design flaw. I know that if I asked both of you, if you could distribute your stats in WoW would you? Both of you would say yes. You cite balance Sandman, and that may be true, but I think it is more for newbie protection, so they don't screw up their stats and have to restart. Why didn't they just let you respec your stats???
I only have 1 problem with respecing. It is that if you can do it multiple times, than your character can just keep changing with no identity of its own. For example, I am a mage, I go fire, then in the next raid, I go Ice, then in the next raid, I go arcane. Characters lose their uniqueness, and have no identity.
Attacking/Casting
-WoW has auto attack. Horrible...
Auto Attack is horrible. It makes the game slow, boring, and less immersive. This is where WoW fails. Just because it is an MMORPG doesnt mean it should have auto attack. I elaborate more about this in the Gameplay section.
Graphics
-Cartoony. I don't want Diablo to look like Samurai Pizza Cats
I like WoWs graphics. Yes, I did just compliment the game Carl. However, I do not want WoW's graphical style in a Diablo game.
Gameplay
-I can kill a tiger, while another tiger walks through my body. And that 2nd tiger doesnt give a shit about his buddy. The immersion factor is at 0!
Do I even need to comment... This is because of Auto Attack. Games designed with auto attack are about 1vs1 battles, and the characters can't usually handle 2vs1. That is the reason why all the monsters and animals don't care about eachother.
-The game is all about pulling 1 monster while hes chilling with his monster buddies. Sometimes accidents happen and you pull 2... you know the rest...
Again. Auto Attack. You have to realize that Auto Attack isn't just a feature in WoW. It is the game. Everyone who has ever played an MMO knows of this situation, trying to pull/aggro 1 monster when there are 3 or 4 around. Let me repeat. This is the game. This is what you do for 70 levels. It is not fun, it is frustrating, it is annoying and it is boring.
Why is it all about pulling 1 monster while he is chilling with his pals? Why is it I can kill a tiger infront of his buddies, and the other tigers dont give a crap? Why is it that when I swing my sword, and it goes through the monster, I still miss? Why is it that when I am running away from a monster, he can still hit me, even when I am 20 ft away???
ANSWER: Auto Attack.
-Fed Ex quests..
You know what World of Warcraft makes you feel like? A bitch. Go fucking deliver this mail to my mom. Go kill a rat and drain its blood. Yea.. I feel like I'm apart of an epic storyline...
In Diablo, there were never unnessecessary quests, or quests that made you feel like a bitch. I don't want this in D3. Do you?
-I don't want to kill oversized rats anymore...
Have you played EQ?
-No end to the game
-No boss of the game
I can say that I have beaten Diablo II. You cannot say that you beaten World of Warcraft. I really want to say that I have beaten D3. I hope this is achievable.
-No hardcore mode, or single player
I want Diablo 3 to have a hardcore mode, and a single player mode. Do you?
-Undead characters are not considered undead in the game
-Undead can be priests...
Lets say, In Diablo 3, you can be a vampire as a character class. If Im a paladin, and I go hostile on you, I want my Holy Bolt to do some damage. Don't you?
So I holy bolt him, and they he casts holy light. What!?
-Money runs the economy. This is too much like real life to me. I liked the Diablo "Items for Items" economy. I am probably the only one who thinks this though.
If you have money in WoW, you can buy whatever you like. I think thats too easy. All you got to do is farm gold. In Diablo, you have to find your own stuff, or find other stuff and trade it for stuff you want. This is much more fun because you have to make deals with players. I want to strike deals in Diablo 3!
Business Model
-Monthly Fee
-Endless Expansions
For the Monthly Fees, please refer to threads "There gonna screw up D3", and "Poll: Would you pay to play Diablo III?". I explain in mutliple places why monthly fees are not needed.
As for Endless Expansions. Like I have said before, I want to be able to beat the game.
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So Carl, do I sound like a retard? An idiot? Do I?
good points Sabacca50.
Well, I still disagree with you but at least now you don't sound like a ranting retard. Maybe next time you should stop and read your post before you push Submit Reply. Oh, and like I said, I'm through with professionalism on this topic unless the person I am facing is professional. Read your post again, and you'll see that there was not much professionalism. The reason I'm done with it is because you sounded like every other stupidass that comes here and bashes WoW. If you take my history into consideration you would know that I have a point, and reason to shoot you down.
I'm sorry but this is such a load of crap.
Auto attack is not about making a boring game, it is about meaning you don't have to click 1,000 times an hour extra. Sure if you're a boring player who doesn't use skills or brains just use auto attack. If you're a half decent player you take on groups of monsters.
There are lots of different fighting styles in WoW, and trying to claim that auto attack is the sign of a boring game is just stupid (or you haven't played wow and understand how the game mechanics work). Also you are pretty much glorifying Diablo here, You spec for an attack then you use that attack and not much else.
When D2: Lod was released suddenly it meant you hadn't completed the game. This wasn't the end of the world it was exciting with new stuff to do. This is the nature of expansions, and due to the investment they will expand MMO's more.
This is more about Diablo 3 being an MMORPG vs RPG. The decision to make Diablo an MMO or RPG has nothing to do with the Lead designer, more with the management team of Blizzard.
well im sorry you feel that way
~Aeschylus :cool:
Diablo is based on a medieval fantasy world right? and im pretty sure that in these times alot of people used a currency to trade for things
not sell it to the vendor and hope you get enough money to buy the item you want from them. although thats how it works in (most) games. i cant recall a game which allowed you to trade say a sword for an axe directly.
In Diablo its different, because the good-best items are from drops, and those are only traded. Therefore, gold plays no important role.
Its cool Carl. I think you were already angry at Blades111 (I cite the page 2 "Shoot yourself...", and tried to take it out on me. I have been a member long enough here to know about the crazy folks you mention.
You must agree though Carl, that many features that I listed would hurt the Diablo experience if implemented in D3.
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Now for you Mr. Khaan. I must ask this, have you seen Wrath of Khan? You should check it out...
Auto Attack is bad. It stagnates combat, making it boring. It also is designed for 1vs1 combat, which slows the game down as well. Sure Khan, there are a few instances where you can be successful in 2 or 3vs1 battles, but the game is not designed for it.
What is Auto Attack Khan??? I will tell you. You and a monster are fighting. You are not moving, and they are not moving. You are standing still, hitting eachother slowly. There is no way to dodge each other by moving, and even if you slice your sword through the enemy, it doesn't mean you are hitting them. I don't know about you, but I'm already bored. Also, since auto attack uses a radius for enemies, you can be running away from them, and have 20 ft of ingame space between you, yet the monster still hits you! Awesome!
Wait, there is more... I continue to press 1,2,3,4 in the appropriate order to keep casting my spells right when their cooldown expires. Yes, the only keys I am hitting are 1,2,3 and 4. Hell, since I auto attacked so many monsters trying to get to the next level (1 monster at a time mind you), I have memorized the cool down times. I dont even need to look at the screen when I'm attacking. I can watch TV, or a movie. Hell, I dont even need 2 hands to play. Just 1,2,3, and 4 until the monster dies.
Auto Attack does ruin the game, because like I have mentioned above, you are not even playing the game anymore. The game loses its immersion factor by 100%. You don't even need 2 hands to play.
I'm not done yet...
Since the game is auto attack and designed for 1vs1 combat, it is all about pulling 1 monster at a time. This is the game, as I have mentioned. If you are shitty at pulling 1 monster while he chills with his buddies, you will pull more than you can handle, and keep dying, effectively stopping your progress through the game. If you are good at pulling 1 monster at a time, you will suceed in the game. Therefore, as I have shown, the game of WoW is all about pulling safely.
About the expansions. Yes. Diablo 2 has an Expansion. But you can beat the expansion because there is a boss to it. And since there is no more expansions to Diablo 2, you can beat the game. In WoW, there is no boss figure. Also, there will be endless expansion that continue to not have boss figures. Therefore, you cannot beat the game. Sure, Kahn, there are raid bosses, but they are not the bosses of the entire expansion.
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That list was what I saw to be problems in WoW, and things that do not belong in a Diablo title.
Like I said in my original list. They will keep the skeletal game the same because they have to. I am worried though, that if a WoWer is in charge of the design team, they might do things that will ruin the diablo experience. Stuff like expand the inventory to 20 equippable slots, change the spell system so that you learn all the spells and invest in the ones you like, etc...
I have a challange for all you WoWers out there like Carl and Khan. I listed things that are in WoW that I think would hurt Diablo 3. Why don't you guys get together and lists things from WoW that you think would work well in D3.