I agree with the idea of creating a useful currency. They do not need to really create sinks for this though, just lower the drop rate of gold and decrease the sell value of items to merchants. Easy problem solved.
Reducing gold drops, and item selling is a very short term solution. It will work for a few months, maybe even a year but with a large quantity of players and years of play, it will only be a matter of time before the currency is useless.
MMO's can circumvent this problem by improving in game items and technology (expansions and continual) will keep making gold worth something, and help combat inflation with the addition of new gold dumps and things to spend it on.
The question for D3 is how do you make a non-regularly updated game have a valid economy without the constant addition of new things to spend it on.
My solution would be progressive gold sinks. It would either be gold sinks that are adjusted on how often you use them i.e. Pay to get your items de-socketed and everytime you use the service you have to pay more and more.
OR
Have blizzard adjusts the costs of gold sinks with the economy so it will always cost an amount based on average wealth per player
OR
Make gold sinks always hit you % wise, or level based. (but i guess people will transfer items to a lower level or poorer character/account to do the stuff)
Here are a list of some possible useful goldsinks:
Expanded bank/bag slots
Pay a fee to use a horadric cube type item
De-socket items (Pay extra for higher % chance socketables arent desroyed)
Change one gem type to another
Change character sex (i hear its a horrible procedure back in the day)
Reset skill points, attribute points
Add bonuses to your char (such as base run speed%, IAS, +stam, health, mana, etc)
Good point, but if you think about it, enough gold sinks were really already in play. Repairing your equipment was even sometimes a pain. Coming up with 2million gold for some of the repairs was tedious, and you often used a rune to repair things such as chaos claws because they cost so much.
So the sinks are already there. Even think about mercs. 50k gold. What if that 50k gold took you an hour to make tho? Sink complete.
You are right. I forgot about how expensive the higher level equipment can be to repair. I guess what I was envisioning was the possibility of making useful gold sinks and not punishing ones.
Like paying XXX gold to get miniature pet to follow you around is more rewarding than paying XXX gold to repair your gear or to recharge your items or something. It always a challenge to make every aspect of a game fun, even the punishing parts should be fun, or at the very least rewarding.
I can agree with that. It would suck REALLY REALLY bad if gold was the currency, and you needed 2mil of it or all of your gear was going to break. That almost puts you in a conundrum. Go farm for more gold? But my gear will break. Trade for gold? Im fresh out of stuff to trade...
Kind of puts you between a rock and a hard place. So some kind of rewarding gold sink would be really good, but something that doesnt make the game unfair.
I know everyone is begining to hate the references to WoW, but something like the mounts in WoW is the perfect sink. They are pretty much one of the huge reasons gold is worth anything. Something that basically helps appearence wise, and maybe time wise, but not ability wise would be cool.
Upper level ability, such as adding sockets or desocketing would be cool because you can still get through the game without. PvP related sinks would also be great, because PvP is the reason people strive to be the best they can be generally. Things that make your character that little bit extra, but not needed to just play the game.
PvP related sinks....hmmm thats an interesting idea...
What about betting on pvp matches with a certain cap on it. It would be double blind to help prevent cheating...That would be a fun money sink. It could be similiar to the Super smash bros brawl betting system, but of course alot better.
That would also bring up the point that if they are against PK, they should allow arena style system that can have 1v1 or team vs team battles, that allows people to bet...Awesome.
Only problem with that is that it doesnt really create a sink. Some people will win, some people will lose. Gold sinks are called that because they do nothing more than take money OUT of the economy. Betting would allow players to also win money, and therefore wouldnt help the problem Although it may be fun.
Well thats not exactly true, depends how you implement it. I mean, Vegas betting area's always make more than they pay out. If you model it after that you can have people that do have a chance of earning money, but engineer it so that more often than not they lose money and therefore it becomes an entertaining money sink.
Add things like entree fee, betting odds, low ceilings on how much you can bet. Especially fi you start having stuff like 4 person FFA, your odds on winning become alot worse.
Man, i love posting on msg boards at work, makes the day go by much faster.
Buyable buff from a trader in town, preferably next to WP/TP. Activates as soon as you buy it. Specifically I'm envisioning becoming invulnerable and unable to do damage for 1 minute. Useful for snagging your corpse. Overpowered if teleport is implemented the same as D2 (unless restrictions put on skills availible during the invulnerability). Other ones could be increase run speed for a bit. Basically buffs that will be useful throughout your playing experience, but that don't in any way help your killing power directly (I don't want to require a buff to kill a boss).
How about PvP tournaments? Teams would have to pay to take part in them and the winner would get a prize of some sort.
The prize could be anything, really. Some special equipment, a silly title... whatever.
I thought about that as well, but the big time pvpers would do nothing except: farm gold/play tourney/farm gold/play tourney/get bitter about having to farm gold/quit D3.
I thought about that as well, but the big time pvpers would do nothing except: farm gold/play tourney/farm gold/play tourney/get bitter about having to farm gold/quit D3.
Thats horrible logic. If that were the case, people would NEVER play mmo's because they had 'farm' something. People still play Diablo and farm the HELL out of that game. I mean after you see the diablo story, and lets assume you aren't into PKing, what else would you do....farm! Gaining gold is part of the game in D3, and I would assume people wouldnt be upset at having to play diablo to gain gold.
Also, you are assuming its going to be some amount of money large enough to require large amounts of grinding to achieve. A gold sink can be something small as buying arrows to something as huge as buying a house. Doesn't have to be bank-breaking.
Make people require gold to continue playing - repair equipment, buy new equipment (yes, in towns, yes, give merchants good items to buy for God's sake), improve equipment (sockets + extra stuff possibly), buy potions. Bad economy comes from things being too cheap. If I can buy tons upon tons of super health potions in Act 4 normal and not give a damn on how much anything costs there is something wrong. In fact, my stashes are full at Act 2 already. In singleplayer. I don't think Blizzard ever bothered to look into this problem. Neither did Titan Quest.
You can depreceate money, too... make things steadily more expensive, and occassionally cut off an extra 0 from money quality.
My mind is open, is yours? In wow why do you think they don't make PvP cost money to play in BGs and Arena? Why do you think PvP rewards don't cost money? I knew a guy who was way into PvP in wow. He hated farming gold, raiding, and questing but he liked to PvP. And for the most part he was able to do so except for some insignicant character upkeep costs. PvE and PvP should be allowed to be as seperate as possible. You would think it was ridiculous to have to kill 20 players before you got to move on to nightmare difficulty wouldn't you?? Same argument here.
There should be some form of upkeep for both realms of the game. It would be unfair to require PvE'ers to pay upkeep to play (repair costs, other gold sinks) but whine when you say you don't want upkeep for PvP.
The big difference between WoW and Diablo is that gathering gold is so integral into the core gameplay of Diablo it wouldn't be so outrageous as it is in WoW, where gold gathering (efficiently) does not occur within standard gameplay.
Besides, as you mentioned briefly, WoW does have upkeep costs to pvp....Consumables, food/drink, Repair. Even though they are small, they are gold sinks, and thats what would help diablo 3 keep the economy from super inflation. These sink's don't have to be huge, as long as there is some drain on the economy.
(yes, in towns, yes, give merchants good items to buy for God's sake)
Damn straight!
Also, another moneysink that was promised for diablo 2, but cut before shipping because of time. Guild halls.
The more you spend on it, the larger and flamboyant it becomes.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Perhaps the implausibility of its own existence makes the skeleton think it hilarious to hide in a barrel, cackling intermittently for some three hundred years until a victim happens by?
Globes of health. That float. Riiight
... and no one thought twice about chugging something that had been stuffed into a poisonous mummy for the last thousand years. This magical orb shit is going to ruin my sense of immersion big time.
Besides, as you mentioned briefly, WoW does have upkeep costs to pvp....Consumables, food/drink, Repair. Even though they are small, they are gold sinks, and thats what would help diablo 3 keep the economy from super inflation.
Upkeep costs are fine. Buying consumables, repairing your equipment, etc. would help people do better in pvp. It would encourage people to farm gold.
Having fees to enter tournaments wouldn't encourage farming, it would force it.
just keep gold useless, it seperates the noobs from the pros. also its way more fun to get more then your item is worth in trades becuase people are desperate. with a set currency, people are always going to get a uniform price which is stupid
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DIABLO = DEVIL its not supposed to be a nice game autostats are rediclous lack of pots is not welcome if it aint broke dont fix it! (diablo2)
If you don't want uniform prices then inflate the prices. But using items for trade has no difference from using gold for trade except confusion and lack of flexibility.
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MMO's can circumvent this problem by improving in game items and technology (expansions and continual) will keep making gold worth something, and help combat inflation with the addition of new gold dumps and things to spend it on.
The question for D3 is how do you make a non-regularly updated game have a valid economy without the constant addition of new things to spend it on.
My solution would be progressive gold sinks. It would either be gold sinks that are adjusted on how often you use them i.e. Pay to get your items de-socketed and everytime you use the service you have to pay more and more.
OR
Have blizzard adjusts the costs of gold sinks with the economy so it will always cost an amount based on average wealth per player
OR
Make gold sinks always hit you % wise, or level based. (but i guess people will transfer items to a lower level or poorer character/account to do the stuff)
Here are a list of some possible useful goldsinks:
Expanded bank/bag slots
Pay a fee to use a horadric cube type item
De-socket items (Pay extra for higher % chance socketables arent desroyed)
Change one gem type to another
Change character sex (i hear its a horrible procedure back in the day)
Reset skill points, attribute points
Add bonuses to your char (such as base run speed%, IAS, +stam, health, mana, etc)
Any other ideas?
So the sinks are already there. Even think about mercs. 50k gold. What if that 50k gold took you an hour to make tho? Sink complete.
Like paying XXX gold to get miniature pet to follow you around is more rewarding than paying XXX gold to repair your gear or to recharge your items or something. It always a challenge to make every aspect of a game fun, even the punishing parts should be fun, or at the very least rewarding.
Kind of puts you between a rock and a hard place. So some kind of rewarding gold sink would be really good, but something that doesnt make the game unfair.
I know everyone is begining to hate the references to WoW, but something like the mounts in WoW is the perfect sink. They are pretty much one of the huge reasons gold is worth anything. Something that basically helps appearence wise, and maybe time wise, but not ability wise would be cool.
Upper level ability, such as adding sockets or desocketing would be cool because you can still get through the game without. PvP related sinks would also be great, because PvP is the reason people strive to be the best they can be generally. Things that make your character that little bit extra, but not needed to just play the game.
What about betting on pvp matches with a certain cap on it. It would be double blind to help prevent cheating...That would be a fun money sink. It could be similiar to the Super smash bros brawl betting system, but of course alot better.
That would also bring up the point that if they are against PK, they should allow arena style system that can have 1v1 or team vs team battles, that allows people to bet...Awesome.
Add things like entree fee, betting odds, low ceilings on how much you can bet. Especially fi you start having stuff like 4 person FFA, your odds on winning become alot worse.
Man, i love posting on msg boards at work, makes the day go by much faster.
How about PvP tournaments? Teams would have to pay to take part in them and the winner would get a prize of some sort.
The prize could be anything, really. Some special equipment, a silly title... whatever.
I thought about that as well, but the big time pvpers would do nothing except: farm gold/play tourney/farm gold/play tourney/get bitter about having to farm gold/quit D3.
Thats horrible logic. If that were the case, people would NEVER play mmo's because they had 'farm' something. People still play Diablo and farm the HELL out of that game. I mean after you see the diablo story, and lets assume you aren't into PKing, what else would you do....farm! Gaining gold is part of the game in D3, and I would assume people wouldnt be upset at having to play diablo to gain gold.
Also, you are assuming its going to be some amount of money large enough to require large amounts of grinding to achieve. A gold sink can be something small as buying arrows to something as huge as buying a house. Doesn't have to be bank-breaking.
Open your mind.
You can depreceate money, too... make things steadily more expensive, and occassionally cut off an extra 0 from money quality.
The big difference between WoW and Diablo is that gathering gold is so integral into the core gameplay of Diablo it wouldn't be so outrageous as it is in WoW, where gold gathering (efficiently) does not occur within standard gameplay.
Besides, as you mentioned briefly, WoW does have upkeep costs to pvp....Consumables, food/drink, Repair. Even though they are small, they are gold sinks, and thats what would help diablo 3 keep the economy from super inflation. These sink's don't have to be huge, as long as there is some drain on the economy.
Damn straight!
Also, another moneysink that was promised for diablo 2, but cut before shipping because of time. Guild halls.
The more you spend on it, the larger and flamboyant it becomes.
Globes of health. That float. Riiight
... and no one thought twice about chugging something that had been stuffed into a poisonous mummy for the last thousand years. This magical orb shit is going to ruin my sense of immersion big time.
Upkeep costs are fine. Buying consumables, repairing your equipment, etc. would help people do better in pvp. It would encourage people to farm gold.
Having fees to enter tournaments wouldn't encourage farming, it would force it.
its not supposed to be a nice game
autostats are rediclous
lack of pots is not welcome
if it aint broke dont fix it! (diablo2)