here's some math on Caldesann's Despair I did a while ago and I decided to share it now. It's about when to upgrade which gems and how to use our gold optimally. I calculated numbers for P1400 / Tier 90 gems with my solo Natalya setup(dual wield, no mainstat on jewelry, full diamonds, nonancient amulet), which will be pretty early in the season but for casuals like me it will still be decently high. Keep in mind we know neither the exact duration of this season nor the exact XP/h values that people will achieve. I assumed ~3.5 months and 200b/h early game, increasing up to 1000b/h near the end of season.
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Part 1
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Gold, cost and time comparison. If you want to see the numbers, here's my Excel sheet (explanation see below): http://puu.sh/mso0i/31f05c1ea4.png
Top left: Cost for empowering (basically +1 gemup)
Top center: Required amount of runs / gold / time (time is a rough approximation for 3-5 weeks into the season) to get a gem to 90 with all empowered rifts
Top right: Same but empowered stops at Tier 77
Bottom left: Cost scaling more precisely for relevant Tiers
Bottom center: Comparison of leveling main gems with <60% vs. leveling Caldesann gems with 60%
Bottom right: Comparison of leveling main gems with 8% (and less) chance vs. replacing a low level Caldesann gem
My findings (the colored text in the pic):
Empowering 79+ is not recommended
Stopping empower at 77 will save you 8.4b gold (70%) but only requires ~2 more runs (~20 more min on top of ~2-2.5 hours)
Main gems should be 3 above highest farming Tier once you start hitting a wall (not counting tryharding high Tiers for "gemup runs")
To replace a Caldesann gem on an item the new gem should be ~20 ranks higher, else you should max out the 8 / 4 / 2% chances on your main gems first.
If you're playing on lower Tiers / Paragons, most of these findings should still hold somewhat true (obviously discounting the scaling, so you could probably replace old Caldesann's at ~ +15 ranks already etc.).
Additional comments:
I assumed Tier 60 will be the absolute lowest you'd want to run to still get decent loot and somewhat acceptable experience / key value. I only calculated the Bane of the Trapped for the main gems, other gems are comparatively slightly weaker in most cases, and support builds don't necessarily use them. I also used a comparatively low Paragon / gem baseline, which will probably be surpassed quite early into the season. Still, you should get a general idea of the value of more paragons vs. gemups. I suggest to spam rank 60-70 Caldesann's on every item early in the season and then replace them with 90+ later (in case you keep the same items) once. After 90+ Caldesann I'd never replace them and just put the gemups into spare gems (for better drops / other sets) or spam 1% on main gems. Overall you should expect to spend ~3 hours on every Caldesann gem, not counting Torment farming.
Left: Mainstat comparison at same level (2.3 no Caldesann, 2.4 progressively higher Caldesann up to 100, nonancient amulet)
Right: Dmg difference vs. +1000 Paragon players (same limitations)
Findings:
Caldesann buffs everyone by roughly 45-25% for relevant paragon levels (P1000-3400), so ~1.5-3 Tiers depending on class and build.
Since we'll probably see paragons into the 3000s more commonly than last season, the +1000 calculation will be insufficient
and as always you need to do your own calculations for the people you're competing with (this also doesn't include higher main gems and better items etc.).
Overall Caldesann will decrease the damage gap by roughly 8-10% for low to mediocre paragons and 5-8% for high paragons, so more or less half a Tier. I assume this is much less than most people previously thought, so don't expect Caldesann to save you the paragon grind or make the leaderboards significantly more accessible to casuals.
Looking at last season's damage difference from the weakest character to the strongest in the end-of-season top 10,
a ~60% damage difference should be acceptable to get into top 10 for challenging and ~45% difference for easier classes.
This should make top 10 rankings possible between P1200-1800 or P1600-2200, respectively (very rough approximation).
Hmm, i was wondering in your cost, did you take in consideration the gold you get from doing the rift? Like rift 60 cost 129 millions and you got 50-60 milions i think, so you actually only pay 60M gold, so that might be good to take in consideration
Close, It is around 4-9 million from the RG and 43,155,424 from turnin
Thanks for the math, I came to a similar conclusion just through practical application. Personally not adding Caldesann's to anything that's not well rolled and difficult to replace, and only at rank 70+ gems.
Profile shows he's been playing 21 hours a day since the start of the season.
rebirth maybe?
think before talking , maybe?
Why so caustic? It has nothing to do with "thinking" but rather a trivial piece of information that the poster was not privy to (that the cumulative time played carries over on a rebirthed character.) I'm sure it's more of a generational thing, but the animosity and overarching rudeness so prevalent today really bothers me (not that you would care as that is part of the disconnection everyone seems to have for their fellow man.) Does it help you feel better/smarter to respond like that?
Thanks for the information Wudijo! I was wondering if the effort I was putting into gems would pay off and it looks like it will. I still have 1700 GRift keys to burn so I might was well spending them on getting stronger.
What would you suggest for people that are barely at the level to get their gems to 55? No one in here is "casual" compared to the majority of the players, maybe to the people at the top of the leaderboards. I haven't really even looked at the Caldesann's Despair recipe, and i've only got my 3 gems to 55 for the stash space, and that was annoying enough to get.
Diablo is no longer about finding the best gear, it has become who can achieve the highest gem level. Don't like what this new cube recipe has done to the game
You are giving me the last push require ton continue farming my gem to go over gr 69 solo.
It's sad that the tread can't remaing clean of trash talk...
It took you time and you share your calcul with us so that casual player can understand that we can go higher with gem and close the gap against paragon farmer.
I'm ~p630 and can do gr 69 without weapon ancient... I will farm and thank to your post I'll continue upgrade my ancient armor... Maybe i'll hit gr 80 by the end of the season.
Thumb up and keep up good work and don't let yourself been affect by trash talk
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Hey guys,
here's some math on Caldesann's Despair I did a while ago and I decided to share it now. It's about when to upgrade which gems and how to use our gold optimally. I calculated numbers for P1400 / Tier 90 gems with my solo Natalya setup(dual wield, no mainstat on jewelry, full diamonds, nonancient amulet), which will be pretty early in the season but for casuals like me it will still be decently high. Keep in mind we know neither the exact duration of this season nor the exact XP/h values that people will achieve. I assumed ~3.5 months and 200b/h early game, increasing up to 1000b/h near the end of season.
----------
Part 1
----------
Gold, cost and time comparison. If you want to see the numbers, here's my Excel sheet (explanation see below): http://puu.sh/mso0i/31f05c1ea4.png
My findings (the colored text in the pic):
Additional comments:
I assumed Tier 60 will be the absolute lowest you'd want to run to still get decent loot and somewhat acceptable experience / key value. I only calculated the Bane of the Trapped for the main gems, other gems are comparatively slightly weaker in most cases, and support builds don't necessarily use them. I also used a comparatively low Paragon / gem baseline, which will probably be surpassed quite early into the season. Still, you should get a general idea of the value of more paragons vs. gemups. I suggest to spam rank 60-70 Caldesann's on every item early in the season and then replace them with 90+ later (in case you keep the same items) once. After 90+ Caldesann I'd never replace them and just put the gemups into spare gems (for better drops / other sets) or spam 1% on main gems. Overall you should expect to spend ~3 hours on every Caldesann gem, not counting Torment farming.
----------
Part 2
----------
Here's how Caldesann impacts the relative powerlevels between characters. My excel sheet: http://puu.sh/msWWB/0a73ff6e7f.png
Findings:
This should make top 10 rankings possible between P1200-1800 or P1600-2200, respectively (very rough approximation).
Happy Farming!
Profile | Twitch | Youtube | Twitter | Recruitment: Zero Empathy are looking for the best players in Europe
Good post man
I love spreadsheets
Lol, it is Wudijo, if you don't know him than you are a casual for sure.
"I'm a casual"...................
Profile shows he's been playing 21 hours a day since the start of the season.
well botting 18 hours a day then playing 3 hours is pretty casual I'd say.
Close, It is around 4-9 million from the RG and 43,155,424 from turnin
nice work
One mind cannot contain all wisdom...
Thanks for the math, I came to a similar conclusion just through practical application. Personally not adding Caldesann's to anything that's not well rolled and difficult to replace, and only at rank 70+ gems.
MeatHeadGaming - YouTube - Twitch - Facebook - Web
think before talking , maybe?
Check out my Youtube channel: RetroGameClips
Thanks for the information Wudijo! I was wondering if the effort I was putting into gems would pay off and it looks like it will. I still have 1700 GRift keys to burn so I might was well spending them on getting stronger.
What would you suggest for people that are barely at the level to get their gems to 55? No one in here is "casual" compared to the majority of the players, maybe to the people at the top of the leaderboards. I haven't really even looked at the Caldesann's Despair recipe, and i've only got my 3 gems to 55 for the stash space, and that was annoying enough to get.
Diablo is no longer about finding the best gear, it has become who can achieve the highest gem level. Don't like what this new cube recipe has done to the game
Wow thanks for the math.
You are giving me the last push require ton continue farming my gem to go over gr 69 solo.
It's sad that the tread can't remaing clean of trash talk...
It took you time and you share your calcul with us so that casual player can understand that we can go higher with gem and close the gap against paragon farmer.
I'm ~p630 and can do gr 69 without weapon ancient... I will farm and thank to your post I'll continue upgrade my ancient armor... Maybe i'll hit gr 80 by the end of the season.
Thumb up and keep up good work and don't let yourself been affect by trash talk