not sure I agree with your logic. the XP focused gear most likely will mean the effective GR level you can push goes down (either for reasons of surviveability or dps) so that the net result is you earn less xp with the xp gear. In my opinion it has become a pointless, and therefore wasted stat. Maybe they should have dumped it altogether and created a new secondary to replace it. I'm thinking Life Per Second with a red gem in helmet would be a whole lot more meaningful than 4% xp, especially since the healer monk has also been nerfed into the ground.
sounds like you don't have any experience endgame or realize that they are already clearing GR 90s pre 2.4 which is when there will be even more damage done in groups and allow for even more XP gear to be used. Atm the game is only 1 dps and 3 XP supp....LOL and it will stay that way FOREVER AS LONG AS XP GEAR EXISTS....xp is the most powerful stat in the game > all else easily
Sounds to me like you have trouble with basic logic. When the xp gear bonus is nerfed to the level that is being detailed for patch 2.4 it is the GR level you can push effectively, not the xp bonus on your gear that is going to dictate how much xp you get per time spent getting it. A stat with +Xp on it is therefore not as valuable as a stat that offres more toughness or dps. If you can't understand the ratiionale in that, I guess you may as well just join the flat earth society.
IDK if you ever played D3, sounds like not? But the higher GR lvl the more XP you get....by a lot. GR 70s and 80s give hundreds of billions and trillions of xp/hr. More than any bounty or rift. Changing the values of xp gear wont matter as long as they exist they will be required by farmers.
Amazing. You really do not get it at all. I'm sure this guy has played D3. The question, however, should be if you have ever played school.
It has even been explained several times how xp gear won't be worth it several times but you just don't get it.
This coming from someone paragon 300 with no endgame experience....
The sets and char are getting more powerfull every season, and that means that we can spam higher GR than 2.3 or S4, and that means that the nerf or exp doesn`t matter.
Right ?
Wrong. XP sets will matter more as more damage can be done by DPS chars while supp can buff the group
Just to make sure this discussion is being held with the right assumptions, yes people are speedfarming around GR 82-84 no boss in around 5-8 min average, getting around 600-800b XP per hour. With the incredible powercreep we are going to see next patch (30-40% from Caldesann's Despair alone, not even counting any of the newly added sets, items or additive damage bonuses) and the fact that we can now run 4 dps without any XP gear (even supports will probably run some LoN builds or something), we are probably going to speedfarm around tier 95+ after a couple weeks next season (perhaps even including RG if bosskillers like S6 / Carnevil make it into the groups). In any case, it would be a very weird move for Blizzard to reduce our power level or farming speed, something that has never happened in the past and would screw over nonseason players anyway. I'd expect similar or slightly higher XP/h numbers than we have now (probably passing the 1t/h once we have optimized setups).
You will not be running higher than GR 80-84 with a group of 4 DPS. The healer is essential, and there is no more perma cc either.
Now, take out the roughly 70% xp buff the GR80's pushers have for the entire group, and you are lowering that number to roughly 200b instead of 600b. That is a major difference. Not to mention the effect starts at 70. You cannot really use what you see on PTR as a case study either, because all of the high Para players copy their toons and play non-seasonal.
People are not going to be farming paragon as they did in days past, it is inefficient now. They are going to be farming gear to push them to higher GR, and paragon will just be another thing they obtain along the way. Season 4, the process was "Farm paragon levels, obtain gear along the way" Season 5 it is again as I mentioned "Farm gear, gain paragon along the way". That is how it should be.
Its gonna be level gems like crazy for more dmg than care as much about exp. Cubing even level 50 gems on every item is already 650 paragon levels. Add higher gems and GG many paragon levels of stats.
Take that (75% + 1.00) for a factor of 1.75 and multiply that by the GR XP factor (In this instance 1.08^80) which gives us a rough multiplier of 472, (rounding up). 75% is the average xp gain per toon in 80-84 speed runs, based on an average of 300% on all gear divided by 4 toons.
We then take 472 * 1.75 = 826 (rounding up).
I do not know how much XP each mob gives at GR80, but you can see there is a massive difference between the 826 multiplier and the 472 multiplier. Players essentially would be farming nearly half the speed as before.
Couple this with the nerf to healing monks, and even with the addition of power to our gear, groups will struggle to run anything beyond what they are already at.
Having leveled in both season and non season on the PTR and last season I can tell you that doing XP farming runs without the XP gear feels much the same as it did last patch with XP gear. How you farm won't change except you won't run with XP gear, and you will see a substantial increase to XP gain during your other tasks (tasks other than XP GR runs). Play however you like with the gear that you want!
Having leveled in both season and non season on the PTR and last season I can tell you that doing XP farming runs without the XP gear feels much the same as it did last patch with XP gear. How you farm won't change except you won't run with XP gear, and you will see a substantial increase to XP gain during your other tasks (tasks other than XP GR runs). Play however you like with the gear that you want!
Putting everything together, time played does not = paragon lvl X in relations to Season 4 and Season 5. I would say that all things considered, XP gains are around 20% slower during that initial phase of para 1-500. However, at that point, you likely have several legendary items that you want, having augmented your main stat onto these items, and if you for instance augment 200 Str into that item, we are talking about 40 paragon levels in relation to para 801-840 that you now have around para 500.
The new formula then becomes:
Level 1-70, farm for crafting mats, DB, greater keys and legendary items to cube through bounties and rifts, run greaters to augment gear, progress through GR levels with augmented gear.
Nowhere in this process are we going to see a phase "Farm Paragon Levels" because it is innate to the process instead of being a separate step of the process.
Having leveled in both season and non season on the PTR and last season I can tell you that doing XP farming runs without the XP gear feels much the same as it did last patch with XP gear. How you farm won't change except you won't run with XP gear, and you will see a substantial increase to XP gain during your other tasks (tasks other than XP GR runs). Play however you like with the gear that you want!
Putting everything together, time played does not = paragon lvl X in relations to Season 4 and Season 5. I would say that all things considered, XP gains are around 20% slower during that initial phase of para 1-500. However, at that point, you likely have several legendary items that you want, having augmented your main stat onto these items, and if you for instance augment 200 Str into that item, we are talking about 40 paragon levels in relation to para 801-840 that you now have around para 500.
The new formula then becomes:
Level 1-70, farm for crafting mats, DB, greater keys and legendary items to cube through bounties and rifts, run greaters to augment gear, progress through GR levels with augmented gear.
Nowhere in this process are we going to see a phase "Farm Paragon Levels" because it is innate to the process instead of being a separate step of the process.
So no, the process is not the same.
You pretty much just supported what I said, even though I didn't go into details. So yes, the process is unchanged. If your objective is farming xp you'll just do it through GRs, But doing so comes with the additional bonus of empowering the rift for another shot at a 1% gem upgrade or just upgrading your other gems for augments. The changes don't change the way you do things. The changes they made make the way you do things more useful. What you outlined is exactly what happened in season 4(aside from augments since they weren't available). Also, the paragon leveling from 1-800 is significantly increased because the XP granted from monsters is increased and you can feel it. The process of leveling from 1-70 is also cut down dramatically. I did a test leveling run without using any legendary itmes and you can level from 1-70 doing just bounties in a few hours without breaking a sweat (in comparison to trying every trick in the book to level as fast as possible).
Hey guys , I Was wondering how the monster HP and XP gear changes will effect the paragon farming methods come 2.4.
Are we still going to have support builds with 2 dpsers or will it be 1 supp+3 dps or do you think we will ever find ourselves in a position that solo farming will be the way to go?
I couldn't get into ptr due to not having much free time these days so any input from the testing guys would be appreciated.
Thnx
Blizz intrinsically removed the XP bonus from gear so people would not "farm paragon".
Basically, they want you to farm rifts and bounties instead of farming paragon.
So to answer your question, people will not be "farming paragon" they will instead be farming gear, mats, GR levels, and get XP along the way like it is meant to be.
so ppl will not be farming xp or what are u saying ?? hehe well.. i did 70gr on ptr with 2 dh me crusader, in like the same time as ppl are doing gr 60in 4man live..
so no. ppl are going to get more xp becuase they can do alot higher GR than before. ya the +xp is useless, but. u do get alot more xp becuase u do 10-15 higher gr at the same time u do now..
its like have that extra +xp just not having it on
How far do you get if you do not spec your paragon points?
The process affects this, you cannot ignore it. People on PTR are doing GR70-80 with 1800 paragon, but what happens when XP gains are basically halved? You do not obtain 1800 paragon, you obtain maybe 1200 when you factor the total xp needed. The process of getting to this point is also extended in time, so I actually feel quite safe in saying that those who are at paragon 1800 will actually be at or around paragon 900 with the same play time. But the bottom line, do you run rifts strictly for XP? Or do you run rifts to push?
What instead has happened coupled with this nerf to xp gains are the augments to gear. It has been noted fairly well that 13 lvl 50 gems offer 3250 primary stat, which is equal to 650 paragon levels. But you do not go into the rift saying "Man, lets get those two Double XP toons for support and grind out XP" because the gains are not present. They say "Hey man, lets grind some GR to push and to level legendary gems to augment our ancients."
This is an awesome change, sure, augments are grindy, but so was XP grinding.
Also, if 4 DPS is so much better to get higher in GR's why are people not already running 4 DPS and pushing higher for more XP to begin with? Answer, because it isn't better, the heals and support are essential, and those are all but gone in 2.4!
Also, if 4 DPS is so much better to get higher in GR's why are people not already running 4 DPS and pushing higher for more XP to begin with? Answer, because it isn't better, the heals and support are essential, and those are all but gone in 2.4!
It's now expected that each individual class should rely on their own recovery or support type mechanics. Some classes already had the recovery potential (barb, monk) while other classes needed some buffs (Demon hunter buffs to Shadow power to synergize with leech).
This along with the changes to monster health depending on group size, is actually leveling out the playing field. The leaderboards on PTR so far are actually very close to each other.
It's about even. You should be able to clear a solo GR faster than a 4man of the same level but you'll get more XP from the strength in numbers buff (not sure if it's still called that). Take your pick really.
This coming from someone paragon 300 with no endgame experience....
Wrong. XP sets will matter more as more damage can be done by DPS chars while supp can buff the group
Now, take out the roughly 70% xp buff the GR80's pushers have for the entire group, and you are lowering that number to roughly 200b instead of 600b. That is a major difference. Not to mention the effect starts at 70. You cannot really use what you see on PTR as a case study either, because all of the high Para players copy their toons and play non-seasonal.
People are not going to be farming paragon as they did in days past, it is inefficient now. They are going to be farming gear to push them to higher GR, and paragon will just be another thing they obtain along the way. Season 4, the process was "Farm paragon levels, obtain gear along the way" Season 5 it is again as I mentioned "Farm gear, gain paragon along the way". That is how it should be.
Its gonna be level gems like crazy for more dmg than care as much about exp. Cubing even level 50 gems on every item is already 650 paragon levels. Add higher gems and GG many paragon levels of stats.
Philippos,
Take that (75% + 1.00) for a factor of 1.75 and multiply that by the GR XP factor (In this instance 1.08^80) which gives us a rough multiplier of 472, (rounding up). 75% is the average xp gain per toon in 80-84 speed runs, based on an average of 300% on all gear divided by 4 toons.
We then take 472 * 1.75 = 826 (rounding up).
I do not know how much XP each mob gives at GR80, but you can see there is a massive difference between the 826 multiplier and the 472 multiplier. Players essentially would be farming nearly half the speed as before.
Couple this with the nerf to healing monks, and even with the addition of power to our gear, groups will struggle to run anything beyond what they are already at.
Change is real, it is not just fabricated.
Having leveled in both season and non season on the PTR and last season I can tell you that doing XP farming runs without the XP gear feels much the same as it did last patch with XP gear. How you farm won't change except you won't run with XP gear, and you will see a substantial increase to XP gain during your other tasks (tasks other than XP GR runs). Play however you like with the gear that you want!
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Putting everything together, time played does not = paragon lvl X in relations to Season 4 and Season 5. I would say that all things considered, XP gains are around 20% slower during that initial phase of para 1-500. However, at that point, you likely have several legendary items that you want, having augmented your main stat onto these items, and if you for instance augment 200 Str into that item, we are talking about 40 paragon levels in relation to para 801-840 that you now have around para 500.
The new formula then becomes:
Level 1-70, farm for crafting mats, DB, greater keys and legendary items to cube through bounties and rifts, run greaters to augment gear, progress through GR levels with augmented gear.
Nowhere in this process are we going to see a phase "Farm Paragon Levels" because it is innate to the process instead of being a separate step of the process.
So no, the process is not the same.
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To the above poster, PTR usually also has XP boost, don't forget that.
Still it's confusing to me that running a GR45 nets much more XP than a full TX rift. But they won't lower that now.
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How far do you get if you do not spec your paragon points?
The process affects this, you cannot ignore it. People on PTR are doing GR70-80 with 1800 paragon, but what happens when XP gains are basically halved? You do not obtain 1800 paragon, you obtain maybe 1200 when you factor the total xp needed. The process of getting to this point is also extended in time, so I actually feel quite safe in saying that those who are at paragon 1800 will actually be at or around paragon 900 with the same play time. But the bottom line, do you run rifts strictly for XP? Or do you run rifts to push?
What instead has happened coupled with this nerf to xp gains are the augments to gear. It has been noted fairly well that 13 lvl 50 gems offer 3250 primary stat, which is equal to 650 paragon levels. But you do not go into the rift saying "Man, lets get those two Double XP toons for support and grind out XP" because the gains are not present. They say "Hey man, lets grind some GR to push and to level legendary gems to augment our ancients."
This is an awesome change, sure, augments are grindy, but so was XP grinding.
Also, if 4 DPS is so much better to get higher in GR's why are people not already running 4 DPS and pushing higher for more XP to begin with? Answer, because it isn't better, the heals and support are essential, and those are all but gone in 2.4!
This along with the changes to monster health depending on group size, is actually leveling out the playing field. The leaderboards on PTR so far are actually very close to each other.
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so, at the end of PTR , whats the conclusion about this topic? Will we able to play solo and farm some paragons or will we have to group up again?
It's about even. You should be able to clear a solo GR faster than a 4man of the same level but you'll get more XP from the strength in numbers buff (not sure if it's still called that). Take your pick really.
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