Diablo 3 will never be able to do what you petitioners want it to, and to be honest if it did, that list have fewer names backing it. If Diablo took a stance on Botting, they would likely have to take the same stance on ALL forms of cheating. This means your precious THUD should be banned as well. This means that you players sharing your account EVEN once should be a banned offense. That means if you have used any exploit even once you should be banned. I have to giggle to think how many of your accounts would be banned then.
You cannot cherry pick which evils you want to remove without coming across as insincere. For those arguing this thread is not about THUD, by MeatHeadMikhails logic, you are all THUD users. The simple fact is you can know there are bots, turbohuds, account sharers out there and simply not care. Just because someone doesnt feel the same way about it that you do does not mean they endorse it or use it. To think that way is simply childish and inane.
We all know there are botters in the game. We all know there are THUD users. We all know that people share there accounts. SO DOES BLIZZARD. If you ask them to ban one, you need to ask them to ban all. That is the only way your precious leaderboard will EVER be legitimate.
1) Reported, and be glad you can hide behind a layer of anonymity on the internet, as your first sentence is quite the threat.
2) If you know of a better representative, please, by all means, come forth.
I get it, you're likely a botter. Keep it to yourself.
Personally I think he had a point. The arrogance of the 1%/streamer crowd for D3 is just astounding. And instead of responding like an adult you criticize him and call him a botter... Nice debating skills.
Uhm did you even read what the guy started his comment with? Comments like that deserve a ban and a few days jail time... not a debate
This is SO cute. Why call an end to botting and only botting? Why not call an end to CHEATING? Cheating includes TurboHD and all add-ons that Blizzard does not officially sanction. It also includes sharing accounts (which can account for people with 18+ hours played per day. It's not LIKELY but it's POSSIBLE). Freaking Bagstone. Why would you purposefully try to exclude mention of other cheats in this thread? The letter claims botting gives an unfair advantage, but CHEATING is what gives an unfair advantage. Botting is one aspect of that. The amount of people sitting around using cheats that give a HUGE advantage over legit players while trying to get botters banned is ridiculous. Do you guys not recognize the hypocrisy?? Saying TurboHD provides quality of life improvements that SHOULD be included in the game is like botters saying botting SHOULD be included in the game because they shouldn't have to waste down time on their PC's not collecting mats and keys and gear.
Play the game legit like the rest of us, and be anti-CHEATING in its entirety, or don't complain at all. Almost every single streamer I see uses TurboHD.
1) Reported, and be glad you can hide behind a layer of anonymity on the internet, as your first sentence is quite the threat.
2) If you know of a better representative, please, by all means, come forth.
I get it, you're likely a botter. Keep it to yourself.
Personally I think he had a point. The arrogance of the 1%/streamer crowd for D3 is just astounding. And instead of responding like an adult you criticize him and call him a botter... Nice debating skills.
Uhm did you even read what the guy started his comment with? Comments like that deserve a ban and a few days jail time... not a debate
I'm officially apologizing to Mikhail right now. The offender edited his post to remove the VERY BAD first sentence so it was not there when I read it and I didn't read the version Mikahil quoted (which still had it).
You were right to respond the way you did Mikhail.
Can someone please teach me how to cheat? I've been playing this game honestly since the first Diablo. Apparently grinding is for morons like me. I've pissed away so much time over the last three years and finally broke top 300 for solo wizards. I only play when I can, if bottling or using other software is acceptable I wish I would have known a long time ago.
Dude, one thing is right about your post.. everybody uses THUD, Blizz might as well integrate it into the game and let the people who dont like it turn it off, that might be less work.
But imho botting has a much bigger impact on the leaderboards because of that stupid paragon-grind mainstat-system. Whatever, it actually doesnt matter if they ban THUD users or botters or account sharers as long this fucked up paragon system requires you to not have a job or a life to compete.
You know what ? Let's put RoSbot, TurboHUD and Demonbuddy as sponsors!! According to your logic, Blizzard would start ban waves right on the spot.
You say "it makes the point of letter more obvious", but in truth the letter itself is so obvious that it wasn't needed to be written.
A petition would be much more fitting to the situation. That is why I think the people behind this "brilliant" idea are just attention seekers.
The open letter is very unclear and the writers should have thought harder about the content....
If they would have done that there would not have been 8 pages of discussion about TurboHUD, who signed the letter and a mod explaining what the scope of this letter is.
If the writers would like to be taken serious they should also talk about TurboHUD and explain why there are people who were banned amongst the signees.
In Holland we have a saying: "de angel eruithalen". I'm not sure how this translates to English (maybe Natsuma can ) but if you would have done that, this letter would be so much more powerful
Because now Blizzard can say: You are right, we will ban all people gaining an unfair advantage so we ban botters and TurboHUD users.
Or: LOL, so funny that open letter signed by people who were banned... And they think we should take that letter seriously now? Let's file this letter under the L because it's lame as $#!+...
So, maximum points for effort cause I fully support the cause (although it doesn't affect me as I am a "filthy casual" that can play only about 20 hours per week) but zero points for execution.
For the record: I don't use TurboHUD, i'm not into all that Twitch drama.
I'm saddened by many of the borderline comments on the last few pages. We're trying to limit moderation to a minimum to also let the voices from the other side be heard, but let me stress once again - if you *disagree* with us, then please refrain from making accusations. It makes your entire statement useless and nobody of us is going to respond to this as it's close to the subject of trolling (and trolls shall not be fed). If you want a critical discussion at least be fair and stop calling people names or accuse them of things for which you have no proof, and also don't generalize across all the signatories as we purposely tried to get a wide variety of people.
Just one thing, since it seems to be the common theme one the last page: "why didn't you make a petition instead of speaking for the *entire* community?" - first of all, we do not speak for the *entire* community, and this letter is useless if you don't share/upvote it. Thankfully, the overwhelming (positive) support we're getting on it outweighs the attacks; it seems to be that the vocal minority is quite strong on this one with the urge to fight back to defend their botting. And I'm not making this up - some people posted the same text here that they also posted on botting websites. Secondly, a petition is against Blizzard's rules and would immediately be deleted and dismissed. We agree that a petition would be better than just having a few selected people phrase a letter, but it would simply be impossible for Blizzard to react to it as it would be against their own rules.
Seriously? Where is that vocal minority that disagrees about botting being negative? I only see a vocal majority wondering how you strive to prosecute one "crime", yet turn a blind eye on another, which equally destroys that what you claim to seek.
Why don't you openly discuss THUD and your position about it instead of hushing that up and calling people trolls?
With "trolls" I do not mean the people that mention THUD, but that throw false accusations at the signatories of the letter.
I've elaborated on why we didn't include THUD in this letter here. As I mentioned there, we can have a separate topic about THUD, and if anyone wants they can try and start a similar initiative about THUD (but trust me, this took a lot of ton and effort, I'm not gonna do this again even if it's for world pace). I'm not going to share my personal opinion on THUD in this thread because I did not open this thread to discuss THUD, but to raise awareness for the crazy amount of botting.
@pewpew: But that is exactly why we are posting this letter, for you all to virtually sign it, by sharing it and bringing it to Blizzard's attention. Again, we can't make it an obvious "sign here and we'll include all your thousands of names" thing, as that would be by definition a petition, and a petition would be dismissed by Blizzard according to their own rules. However, we wanted to make sure that instead of having one forum thread here, one Reddit post there we had *one* post that was distributed to all the communities - be it B.Net forums, Reddit, DFans, Twitch, and various other fan sites - such that we all (and by "we" I mean all Diablo 3 players, not just Diablofans or the signatories or any other subset) can speak as one and make our voice heard.
If you are pleased with the letter, then what stops you from approving the message and joining us for the cause? Just because we did not personally request you to "sign this shit"? I'm sorry, but if personal animosities stop you from agreeing with us or, even worse as in post #153, lead to attack us personally in the first place rather than helping us to make our voice heard - then I disagree with you, and quite frankly I feel you're doing the entire cause and community a disservice.
I'm not going to share my personal opinion on THUD in this thread because I did not open this thread to discuss THUD, but to raise awareness for the crazy amount of botting.
Ok, I rest this case. Like I said, I'd want many features of it in the actual game client. And I'd rather have Blizz invest into that than into a witch hunt.
And I think the same about botting. Granted, there is nothing positive at all about it, which somehow separates it from THUD, but I doubt Blizzard can effectively combat that. I just remembered how they tried to and utterly failed in D2, when legitimate players got IP-bans (me among them) all the time for doing pindle runs like a machine.
So I'd personally settle for the cheap solution of just setting a seasonal plvl cap starting in s5. Let's say plvl 1000. All of you serious players will have no problem attaining that long before the end of the season, while also farming keys, mats etc during your awake hours.
With "trolls" I do not mean the people that mention THUD, but that throw false accusations at the signatories of the letter.
I've elaborated on why we didn't include THUD in this letter here. As I mentioned there, we can have a separate topic about THUD, and if anyone wants they can try and start a similar initiative about THUD (but trust me, this took a lot of ton and effort, I'm not gonna do this again even if it's for world pace). I'm not going to share my personal opinion on THUD in this thread because I did not open this thread to discuss THUD, but to raise awareness for the crazy amount of botting.
While not really expecting a reply since you don't seem to want to talk about THUD, I'll still leave my opinion here for others to read. I feel like the entire letter almost feels like a cover for THUD, which is why it bothers me.
The letter spends too much time talking about the competitiveness, and just seems to direct so much of it at botting, when the main issue, THUD, doesn't even get mentioned. The fact simply remains that removing botting won't fix the competitiveness of the game. That's not to mention botting goes hand in hand with paragon levels, which at least can be seen on the leaderboard. So being a few ranks behind that guy that's 1000 paragon levels ahead really isn't a big deal anyways.
If the competition is going to be shit with THUD, it hardly matters that it's a little more shit with botting. I mean either way, terrible competition is terrible competition. It really goes hand in hand. If Blizzard doesn't want to fix the game to be competitive, I'd rather they not waste resources half-assing it. They might as well put that money towards WoW, StarCraft, Hearthstone, HotS, etc.
As much as I hate botting, and all forms of cheating, I really can't agree with sending that letter to Blizz without a mention of THUD. It's pretty ridiculous to start it out like "This is a message on behalf of the portion of the community that engages in the competitive aspects (such as Leaderboards and Conquests) of this game you created" when some players that are part of the competitive community do not agree with your letter.
As long as programs such as THUD are around (yet not legal to use) the ladder really can't be competitive.
THUD is 100% legal, and blizzard can't do anything about it. Sure they might ban you but that's about it.
What the??? this doesn't even make sense... if it's legal and they can't do anything why would you get banned?
i'll clarify your ideas: ANY 3rd party software is NOT legal and they CAN do something about it, they can ban you and you have to re-buy the game+xpack.
The only problem is that they don't actively do it, if they did ban consistently some ppl would run out of money buying copies every week until they would quit cheating...
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Those Who Do Not Know True Pain Cannot Possibly Understand True Peace...
It's hilarious that you cry about a bot that can tops 10b xp/h yet you let the whole 500b xp/h speed rift problem slip by. The botters MAY have better items, but you can't do anything to competete against the perma 4 man party speed grift. When there's 1k paragon of stats of difference, there's no ladder.
Cap paragon at 800 for Seasons. Resolve the Bot problem, and MAYBE you will have a competitive ladder.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
This whole argument is comical to me.
Diablo 3 will never be able to do what you petitioners want it to, and to be honest if it did, that list have fewer names backing it. If Diablo took a stance on Botting, they would likely have to take the same stance on ALL forms of cheating. This means your precious THUD should be banned as well. This means that you players sharing your account EVEN once should be a banned offense. That means if you have used any exploit even once you should be banned. I have to giggle to think how many of your accounts would be banned then.
You cannot cherry pick which evils you want to remove without coming across as insincere. For those arguing this thread is not about THUD, by MeatHeadMikhails logic, you are all THUD users. The simple fact is you can know there are bots, turbohuds, account sharers out there and simply not care. Just because someone doesnt feel the same way about it that you do does not mean they endorse it or use it. To think that way is simply childish and inane.
We all know there are botters in the game. We all know there are THUD users. We all know that people share there accounts. SO DOES BLIZZARD. If you ask them to ban one, you need to ask them to ban all. That is the only way your precious leaderboard will EVER be legitimate.
Uhm did you even read what the guy started his comment with? Comments like that deserve a ban and a few days jail time... not a debate
This is SO cute. Why call an end to botting and only botting? Why not call an end to CHEATING? Cheating includes TurboHD and all add-ons that Blizzard does not officially sanction. It also includes sharing accounts (which can account for people with 18+ hours played per day. It's not LIKELY but it's POSSIBLE). Freaking Bagstone. Why would you purposefully try to exclude mention of other cheats in this thread? The letter claims botting gives an unfair advantage, but CHEATING is what gives an unfair advantage. Botting is one aspect of that. The amount of people sitting around using cheats that give a HUGE advantage over legit players while trying to get botters banned is ridiculous. Do you guys not recognize the hypocrisy?? Saying TurboHD provides quality of life improvements that SHOULD be included in the game is like botters saying botting SHOULD be included in the game because they shouldn't have to waste down time on their PC's not collecting mats and keys and gear.
Play the game legit like the rest of us, and be anti-CHEATING in its entirety, or don't complain at all. Almost every single streamer I see uses TurboHD.
You were right to respond the way you did Mikhail.
How I got around botting was playing hardcore. But ya. Botting is bad.
Can someone please teach me how to cheat? I've been playing this game honestly since the first Diablo. Apparently grinding is for morons like me. I've pissed away so much time over the last three years and finally broke top 300 for solo wizards. I only play when I can, if bottling or using other software is acceptable I wish I would have known a long time ago.
I can't believe something so ridiculous and hypocrite got so much attention.
1- Less than a dozen people do not represent the entire community, no matter how good are their intentions.
2- If you wanna make a letter complaining about bots and want it to be taken seriously, don't F%$#$@ let notorious botters stamp their names on it.
Seriously, close this thread already.
"Do you guys not have phones?"
Dude, one thing is right about your post.. everybody uses THUD, Blizz might as well integrate it into the game and let the people who dont like it turn it off, that might be less work.
But imho botting has a much bigger impact on the leaderboards because of that stupid paragon-grind mainstat-system. Whatever, it actually doesnt matter if they ban THUD users or botters or account sharers as long this fucked up paragon system requires you to not have a job or a life to compete.
Rip season 4, it was nice to trying you again..
@rejeost
Absolutely! It doesn't sound hypocrite at all!
You know what ? Let's put RoSbot, TurboHUD and Demonbuddy as sponsors!! According to your logic, Blizzard would start ban waves right on the spot.
You say "it makes the point of letter more obvious", but in truth the letter itself is so obvious that it wasn't needed to be written.
A petition would be much more fitting to the situation. That is why I think the people behind this "brilliant" idea are just attention seekers.
"Do you guys not have phones?"
THUD is a far larger issue than botting anyways.
As long as programs such as THUD are around (yet not legal to use) the ladder really can't be competitive.
The open letter is very unclear and the writers should have thought harder about the content....
If they would have done that there would not have been 8 pages of discussion about TurboHUD, who signed the letter and a mod explaining what the scope of this letter is.
If the writers would like to be taken serious they should also talk about TurboHUD and explain why there are people who were banned amongst the signees.
In Holland we have a saying: "de angel eruithalen". I'm not sure how this translates to English (maybe Natsuma can ) but if you would have done that, this letter would be so much more powerful
Because now Blizzard can say: You are right, we will ban all people gaining an unfair advantage so we ban botters and TurboHUD users.
Or: LOL, so funny that open letter signed by people who were banned... And they think we should take that letter seriously now? Let's file this letter under the L because it's lame as $#!+...
So, maximum points for effort cause I fully support the cause (although it doesn't affect me as I am a "filthy casual" that can play only about 20 hours per week) but zero points for execution.
For the record: I don't use TurboHUD, i'm not into all that Twitch drama.
I'm saddened by many of the borderline comments on the last few pages. We're trying to limit moderation to a minimum to also let the voices from the other side be heard, but let me stress once again - if you *disagree* with us, then please refrain from making accusations. It makes your entire statement useless and nobody of us is going to respond to this as it's close to the subject of trolling (and trolls shall not be fed). If you want a critical discussion at least be fair and stop calling people names or accuse them of things for which you have no proof, and also don't generalize across all the signatories as we purposely tried to get a wide variety of people.
Just one thing, since it seems to be the common theme one the last page: "why didn't you make a petition instead of speaking for the *entire* community?" - first of all, we do not speak for the *entire* community, and this letter is useless if you don't share/upvote it. Thankfully, the overwhelming (positive) support we're getting on it outweighs the attacks; it seems to be that the vocal minority is quite strong on this one with the urge to fight back to defend their botting. And I'm not making this up - some people posted the same text here that they also posted on botting websites. Secondly, a petition is against Blizzard's rules and would immediately be deleted and dismissed. We agree that a petition would be better than just having a few selected people phrase a letter, but it would simply be impossible for Blizzard to react to it as it would be against their own rules.
Seriously? Where is that vocal minority that disagrees about botting being negative? I only see a vocal majority wondering how you strive to prosecute one "crime", yet turn a blind eye on another, which equally destroys that what you claim to seek.
Why don't you openly discuss THUD and your position about it instead of hushing that up and calling people trolls?
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
With "trolls" I do not mean the people that mention THUD, but that throw false accusations at the signatories of the letter.
I've elaborated on why we didn't include THUD in this letter here. As I mentioned there, we can have a separate topic about THUD, and if anyone wants they can try and start a similar initiative about THUD (but trust me, this took a lot of ton and effort, I'm not gonna do this again even if it's for world pace). I'm not going to share my personal opinion on THUD in this thread because I did not open this thread to discuss THUD, but to raise awareness for the crazy amount of botting.
@pewpew: But that is exactly why we are posting this letter, for you all to virtually sign it, by sharing it and bringing it to Blizzard's attention. Again, we can't make it an obvious "sign here and we'll include all your thousands of names" thing, as that would be by definition a petition, and a petition would be dismissed by Blizzard according to their own rules. However, we wanted to make sure that instead of having one forum thread here, one Reddit post there we had *one* post that was distributed to all the communities - be it B.Net forums, Reddit, DFans, Twitch, and various other fan sites - such that we all (and by "we" I mean all Diablo 3 players, not just Diablofans or the signatories or any other subset) can speak as one and make our voice heard.
If you are pleased with the letter, then what stops you from approving the message and joining us for the cause? Just because we did not personally request you to "sign this shit"? I'm sorry, but if personal animosities stop you from agreeing with us or, even worse as in post #153, lead to attack us personally in the first place rather than helping us to make our voice heard - then I disagree with you, and quite frankly I feel you're doing the entire cause and community a disservice.
THUD is 100% legal, and blizzard can't do anything about it. Sure they might ban you but that's about it.
Ok, I rest this case. Like I said, I'd want many features of it in the actual game client. And I'd rather have Blizz invest into that than into a witch hunt.
And I think the same about botting. Granted, there is nothing positive at all about it, which somehow separates it from THUD, but I doubt Blizzard can effectively combat that. I just remembered how they tried to and utterly failed in D2, when legitimate players got IP-bans (me among them) all the time for doing pindle runs like a machine.
So I'd personally settle for the cheap solution of just setting a seasonal plvl cap starting in s5. Let's say plvl 1000. All of you serious players will have no problem attaining that long before the end of the season, while also farming keys, mats etc during your awake hours.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
The letter spends too much time talking about the competitiveness, and just seems to direct so much of it at botting, when the main issue, THUD, doesn't even get mentioned. The fact simply remains that removing botting won't fix the competitiveness of the game. That's not to mention botting goes hand in hand with paragon levels, which at least can be seen on the leaderboard. So being a few ranks behind that guy that's 1000 paragon levels ahead really isn't a big deal anyways.
If the competition is going to be shit with THUD, it hardly matters that it's a little more shit with botting. I mean either way, terrible competition is terrible competition. It really goes hand in hand. If Blizzard doesn't want to fix the game to be competitive, I'd rather they not waste resources half-assing it. They might as well put that money towards WoW, StarCraft, Hearthstone, HotS, etc.
As much as I hate botting, and all forms of cheating, I really can't agree with sending that letter to Blizz without a mention of THUD. It's pretty ridiculous to start it out like "This is a message on behalf of the portion of the community that engages in the competitive aspects (such as Leaderboards and Conquests) of this game you created" when some players that are part of the competitive community do not agree with your letter.
i'll clarify your ideas:
ANY 3rd party software is NOT legal and they CAN do something about it, they can ban you and you have to re-buy the game+xpack.
The only problem is that they don't actively do it, if they did ban consistently some ppl would run out of money buying copies every week until they would quit cheating...
Those Who Do Not Know True Pain Cannot Possibly Understand True Peace...
It's hilarious that you cry about a bot that can tops 10b xp/h yet you let the whole 500b xp/h speed rift problem slip by. The botters MAY have better items, but you can't do anything to competete against the perma 4 man party speed grift. When there's 1k paragon of stats of difference, there's no ladder.
Cap paragon at 800 for Seasons. Resolve the Bot problem, and MAYBE you will have a competitive ladder.