Even though there was another topic that was closed due to the same type of potential flaming it would have brought,I wanted to get something out.
What type of reward are you looking for and expecting from a game?
What does it matter what others do?Set your own goals,dont live off of others achievements.
You want to enjoy the game,well then enjoy it in your own way not others ways.
The AH/RMAH was not something that gave people a purpose/reason to play.It was what made people quit playing.
I just dont get why people have to complain about their own likes and dislikes based off of what others do,especially in a video game.
what the hell? just because you dont believe it, it doesnt make it true. RMAH/AH gave me a purpose/reason to play. suck on that. your statement is false. It might have made other people quit playing, but most features are not unanimous. People love seasons. People hate seasons.
Most of the time I just play solo because I hate the clutter of everyones spell effects and/or spending my whole time chasing after a dashing monk or WW barbarian.
Even though there was another topic that was closed due to the same type of potential flaming it would have brought,I wanted to get something out.
What type of reward are you looking for and expecting from a game?
What does it matter what others do?Set your own goals,dont live off of others achievements.
You want to enjoy the game,well then enjoy it in your own way not others ways.
The AH/RMAH was not something that gave people a purpose/reason to play.It was what made people quit playing.
I just dont get why people have to complain about their own likes and dislikes based off of what others do,especially in a video game.
what the hell? just because you dont believe it, it doesnt make it true. RMAH/AH gave me a purpose/reason to play. suck on that. your statement is false. It might have made other people quit playing, but most features are not unanimous. People love seasons. People hate seasons.
Of course opinions are not unanimous. But I definitely think RMAH/AH distorted the game more, and was harder to ignore, for people who hated it. Hate seasons? Don't play season. End of story. Your non-seasonal game is completely untouched.
There was no "non-AH" mode you could play if you hated the way it distorted the game.
Even though there was another topic that was closed due to the same type of potential flaming it would have brought,I wanted to get something out.
What type of reward are you looking for and expecting from a game?
What does it matter what others do?Set your own goals,dont live off of others achievements.
You want to enjoy the game,well then enjoy it in your own way not others ways.
The AH/RMAH was not something that gave people a purpose/reason to play.It was what made people quit playing.
I just dont get why people have to complain about their own likes and dislikes based off of what others do,especially in a video game.
what the hell? just because you dont believe it, it doesnt make it true. RMAH/AH gave me a purpose/reason to play. suck on that. your statement is false. It might have made other people quit playing, but most features are not unanimous. People love seasons. People hate seasons.
Of course opinions are not unanimous. But I definitely think RMAH/AH distorted the game more, and was harder to ignore, for people who hated it. Hate seasons? Don't play season. End of story. Your non-seasonal game is completely untouched.
There was no "non-AH" mode you could play if you hated the way it distorted the game.
you literally had to press a button to get to ah or rmah. if you didnt want to, you didnt have to click that button. people felt compelled to ah to be competitive. i personally dont understand why people shoot for spots in nonseasonal leaderboards because theres literally almost zero competition there, but thats on them. theyre all choices.
ah distorted the game in a positive way for me. it was a mini game. i could play the ah. i could make some money on rmah. anything i found had some innate worth (up until the duping). i could sell magic ias items in the beginning! imagine that. BLUES worth something other than dust. by your logic, gr distorted the game way more than anything. people cant even choose to not play gr because theyd lose out on legendary gem upgrades and huge exp boosts.
there was absolutely nothing wrong with ah. people blame ah for lots of stuff, but it was just a scapegoat. the real problem was that blizzard envisioned gearing to the highest difficulty to be a TEN YEAR quest. that was insane. that and rares over legendaries of course.
i dont agree with rmah because i dont agree with pay to win, but i made a pretty penny off it and did not pay to win myself.
I see some people bashing leaderboards, then go on to say the game takes no skill. Oh really? then where the fuck are you on the leaderboards? You can make top 500 without being P1000+. Then you say its all RNG, getting lucky with the gear. We have the cube now, you can target farm items. Now that you can get the gear, where are you on the leaderboards? Game takes no skill? Stop copying the builds you see online and play the game naturally and make your own builds. Get the items and try to make the top 50. You can't because you suck. This isn't a question of time invested. If the game truly took no skill, #1 - #1000 would be all the exact same GR lvl just different finish times.
On a side note: Seasons is shit, I did it just for the frames and went back to NS.
Of course opinions are not unanimous. But I definitely think RMAH/AH distorted the game more, and was harder to ignore, for people who hated it. Hate seasons? Don't play season. End of story. Your non-seasonal game is completely untouched.
There was no "non-AH" mode you could play if you hated the way it distorted the game.
you literally had to press a button to get to ah or rmah. if you didnt want to, you didnt have to click that button. people felt compelled to ah to be competitive.
Exactly. You could not play a multiplayer game without it being distorted by the AH. If you only ever want to play solo, then you could ignore the AH if you wanted to. Then you only collided with the fact that the difficulty and loot drops had been tuned around the assumption of AH usage.
Of course opinions are not unanimous. But I definitely think RMAH/AH distorted the game more, and was harder to ignore, for people who hated it. Hate seasons? Don't play season. End of story. Your non-seasonal game is completely untouched.
There was no "non-AH" mode you could play if you hated the way it distorted the game.
you literally had to press a button to get to ah or rmah. if you didnt want to, you didnt have to click that button. people felt compelled to ah to be competitive.
Exactly. You could not play a multiplayer game without it being distorted by the AH. If you only ever want to play solo, then you could ignore the AH if you wanted to. Then you only collided with the fact that the difficulty and loot drops had been tuned around the assumption of AH usage.
negasaurus rex. you can easily play a multiplayer game with people who hate ah and refuse to use it which should not be very difficult since apparently you all claim EVERRRRYONEEEEEEEEEEE hated it. i dont know what collided with the fact means, but loot drops were tuned around a ten year idealogoy. ah was PART of that not the source. the problem is their ten year ridiculousness. stuff that contributed to the ROOT problem include but arent limited to ah, lack of "smart" loot, bad legendaries with no abilities worth their legendary status, and bad item design (requiring socket on weapon or its trash). they, along with the general public, threw ah under the bus as a scapegoat then slowly started to fix their other problems. HOWEVER, imagine the game NOW with AH. you can find your own gear relatively well, but all the less-than-perfect items you find can be sold (assuming gold is not as easy to come by as it is now because gold is straight up worthless at this point with no sink) to possibly add up to something usable instead of 100+ souls.
There really isn't a need for Auction house, just get rid of account bound unless the item has been rerolled, so that TRADING can come back to trade with anyone you want at ant period of time and not just an hour with the 3 other people you were in the game with! Diablo 2 was greater for it and D3 would be also.
You can't even trade an item to one of your friends that is re rolling another character.
1. Snapshotting, like any other similiar thing, is fair use of game mechanics, in my opinion. It might be nerfed, but not fixed, there is nothing to fix.
2. Word "leader" in "leaderboards" have some reason. This game is all about spending your time. The more time you spend, the better you know game overall and your particular class and playstyle, the better gear you get. You don't wanna spend ton of time on game and still have top positions? Well, I have bad news for you.
3. This game is super rewarding for me for these 2-3 weeks I play each season. Every season I pick new class and set a goal for myself. Last season it was grift 50, and I failed it. This season it was grift 60, and I only got to 55. Still fine. I enjoy playing this game, experiencing new classes, sets, items, playstyles.
I'm top 50 on the leaderboards, I was 20 at the highest a week ago, haven't been able to log on since. Saying that I'm Paragon level 650, everybody surrounding me is about 800-900+. I only play 2-3 hours a day, I haven't been able to play AT ALL for a week straight.
You can get onto the leaderboards without playing 8 hours a day, as any class
It's more towards the end of the seasons you will be punished by the Paragon levels for not playing all day every day. I agree fully that it takes the fun out of the game, the fact that time played is actually a bigger decider than any amount of skill that goes into the game, the ultimate combo of the players in the top 5 ranks are they have both.
I really feel they should just add a Paragon level cap to seasons, it sounds harsh, people shouldn't be punished more for playing more. But overall it will make the leaderboards MORE competitive, boiling it down to more skill than time played. I know the game has a huge luck factor with loot / GR composition but it feels like it's way too aimed at whoever plays the most wins at the moment.
Like I said before, I hit 20 being severely under-played to my fellow Demon Hunters, so there is a factor of skill involved. But overall, time wins the race
Thanks TryHard for the response - I feel like you understand the heart of why I made the thread.
Folks - I never said I wanted to be Rank 1. Like all things in life, you do have to put in the time if you want to earn the best. I know that I can not dedicate the time to be at the top, so therefore I had no aspiration to try and be at the top. I do not begrudge Quin69, or streamers like him, that play this game as their job and dedicate massive amounts of time playing. This thread was not a complaint of "Blizzard sucks/I want something for nothing/streamers blow" rather this thread is talking about "what do you do, when your character is pretty good and all you need is two ancient weapons?"
Nobody has answered that. Most of the threads fall in two categories: "don't base your gameplay on others, do what you want to have fun" or "stop whining."
I'm currently putting together one last piece of gear so I can do the support healing Monk build and start farming experience like everyone else. If I'm graced in my experience gaining travels with an ancient versions of my current weapons for the SSS build, then I'll start grinding out the GRs. When I reach a new limit I can't beat, I'll go back to farming experience.
THIS is how people progress. In one aspect of the game - the leaderboards.
Let me be clear - I WANT to progress on the leaderboards. I do not want to be at Rank 1 because I do not want to play 12 hours a day, seven days a week. However (before TryHard's response) I felt as though even if I played three to four hours, five nights a week, I would never come near being, even, in the top 200, because most folks are fantastically high in Paragon levels. I'll give it a shot and see how far I can go.
I do not want to play another class. I'll idly work on achievements. So LET ME ASK AGAIN - what else is left for me to do. I want to play my Monk. I want to progress in the GRs. If I know that most likely will never hit a cool level in the Leaderboards (200 or better) because of lack of Paragon, then the game is sorta over before it started - because I can't dedicate 10 hours a day farming experience.
That was my question. And then I went on to speculate on what a game could be like, if there were not gimmicks and Paragon issues. So players had to rely upon slightly better gear (the point of Diablo, imo) and skill. I mentioned the AH/RMAH because for me, it was always something there to do with my hours of farming and the gear that I found. You never knew when you would find something that would bring in the gold and subsequently real money if you chose to go that route.
I'm not saying "BLIZZARD SUCKS - DIABLO 3 IS DEAD!" I'm saying, let's cap Paragon, remove gimmicks (as Quin has suggested) and let good old RNG and game play skill be the guiding force for achievement.
Thoughts?
(TryHard, if you made it this far in the wall of text - love your guides!)
Don't you think those numbers are a little off? Judging from the leaderboards, a vast majority of players are not Paragon Level 1000 and we are over a month into the season. The hardcore gamers are - so perhaps you were referencing that it would be boring for them?
I do not have ancient in every slot. I do not have ancient weapons and I've dedicated all of my materials exclusively to my Monk and trying to get them and haven't. I'm not bitter by the way - RNG is RNG for the most part. However, I would think it is fair to say that the vast majority of players do not have all ancient gear in a week. Some do - not the majority.
So yes, your statement is true - for the lucky and the hardcore.
And besides, you think adding five points to your main stat is that significant of a reward to justify no paragon caps? Five points. That's the ONLY reason that caps shouldn't be put in place, because you want that massive reward for your continued game play: five points.
Of course opinions are not unanimous. But I definitely think RMAH/AH distorted the game more, and was harder to ignore, for people who hated it. Hate seasons? Don't play season. End of story. Your non-seasonal game is completely untouched.
There was no "non-AH" mode you could play if you hated the way it distorted the game.
you literally had to press a button to get to ah or rmah. if you didnt want to, you didnt have to click that button. people felt compelled to ah to be competitive.
Exactly. You could not play a multiplayer game without it being distorted by the AH. If you only ever want to play solo, then you could ignore the AH if you wanted to. Then you only collided with the fact that the difficulty and loot drops had been tuned around the assumption of AH usage.
negasaurus rex. you can easily play a multiplayer game with people who hate ah and refuse to use it which should not be very difficult since apparently you all claim EVERRRRYONEEEEEEEEEEE hated it. i dont know what collided with the fact means, but loot drops were tuned around a ten year idealogoy. ah was PART of that not the source. the problem is their ten year ridiculousness. stuff that contributed to the ROOT problem include but arent limited to ah, lack of "smart" loot, bad legendaries with no abilities worth their legendary status, and bad item design (requiring socket on weapon or its trash). they, along with the general public, threw ah under the bus as a scapegoat then slowly started to fix their other problems. HOWEVER, imagine the game NOW with AH. you can find your own gear relatively well, but all the less-than-perfect items you find can be sold (assuming gold is not as easy to come by as it is now because gold is straight up worthless at this point with no sink) to possibly add up to something usable instead of 100+ souls.
1. I never claimed that everyone hated the AH. I claimed that for those people who did hate it, it was hard to avoid.
2. Play a multiplayer game with people who feel the same way? So, you mean, abandon any possibility of joining a random game, only being able to play multiplayer with like-minded friends / clanmates? Sounds like a massive distortion of the game to me.
I gotta say that you make a good point. I understand the system of reward that Paragon represents for game time and it has it's place in the game. However I wonder if capping the Paragon leveling to 50 points in each category is the way to go for Seasons? The Season is meant to be a finite amount of time and achieving Paragon level 1000 would be considered a Seasonal achievement that for the vast majority of players, would be a long term attained goal over three months. For the hardcore gamers, yes they would achieve this end cap quickly and then have to rely upon bettering their gear as a means to progression. Yes that means they will spend the majority of the season looking for slightly better gear, but it also means that they have to continually work on gearing as a means of achievement - which is what Diablo is all about; better gear.
Right now they can be the top of their game, solely, by farming experience and can not have to ever find the best gear possible to beat out other players. It's certainly a way to play, but it's not one that I think, fundamentally is best for Seasons. Unless the Season mentality is changed to the catch phrase, "Get excited for Season 5 and farming experience!"
What do you think Jasammrvica or anyone else that want's to chime in?
Of course opinions are not unanimous. But I definitely think RMAH/AH distorted the game more, and was harder to ignore, for people who hated it. Hate seasons? Don't play season. End of story. Your non-seasonal game is completely untouched.
There was no "non-AH" mode you could play if you hated the way it distorted the game.
you literally had to press a button to get to ah or rmah. if you didnt want to, you didnt have to click that button. people felt compelled to ah to be competitive.
Exactly. You could not play a multiplayer game without it being distorted by the AH. If you only ever want to play solo, then you could ignore the AH if you wanted to. Then you only collided with the fact that the difficulty and loot drops had been tuned around the assumption of AH usage.
negasaurus rex. you can easily play a multiplayer game with people who hate ah and refuse to use it which should not be very difficult since apparently you all claim EVERRRRYONEEEEEEEEEEE hated it. i dont know what collided with the fact means, but loot drops were tuned around a ten year idealogoy. ah was PART of that not the source. the problem is their ten year ridiculousness. stuff that contributed to the ROOT problem include but arent limited to ah, lack of "smart" loot, bad legendaries with no abilities worth their legendary status, and bad item design (requiring socket on weapon or its trash). they, along with the general public, threw ah under the bus as a scapegoat then slowly started to fix their other problems. HOWEVER, imagine the game NOW with AH. you can find your own gear relatively well, but all the less-than-perfect items you find can be sold (assuming gold is not as easy to come by as it is now because gold is straight up worthless at this point with no sink) to possibly add up to something usable instead of 100+ souls.
1. I never claimed that everyone hated the AH. I claimed that for those people who did hate it, it was hard to avoid.
2. Play a multiplayer game with people who feel the same way? So, you mean, abandon any possibility of joining a random game, only being able to play multiplayer with like-minded friends / clanmates? Sounds like a massive distortion of the game to me.
the first person i replied to said ah was not something that gave people a purpose/reason to play. that is false. its not hard to avoid at all. what do other peoples loot have anything to do with you? if someone CHOOSES to join a public game to get carried by people who use ah and have inevitably better gear, thats on him.
i dont even understand what youre saying. what you choose to do with your character is on you. if you refuse to use ah then youre playing a gimped character. stick to normal or get carried by ah people. its not like there was competition with no leaderboards/gr/adventure mode. if you couldnt kill diablo in inferno, then grind a3 in a lower difficulty.
I totally see your point and it makes sense - the game is pretty much the process you just described, but with the addition of an additional five points being added to your main stat each level. Ultimately that increase itself has a break point, would you not agree? If you can't improve your gear to be full ancients, 200 extra points in main stat (40 levels after the hours playing example you gave) isn't going to make that monumental of a difference in your progression in GRs. It's going to help, don't get me wrong, but the biggest change is going to be better gear.
So once the person has reached the break point in gear, they only slightly increase their over all effectiveness in their gaming, for each hour played. I think that incentive isn't enough to justify the effect that not capping Paragon levels, has on the vast majority of players.
It's Paragon level 1000 right that gives you 50 points in every section, right? Let that be the cap. So it's an achievement to reach that level and at that point, your gaming falls right back into the same picture it is now; slightly better gear, alternate characters, alternate leaderboards or go play Hearthstone
To be honest (and not to rebut myself) I can see it both ways. I see the benefit of always having some minor reward for game time. I also see the benefit of making the game a bit more attainable to all the masses, especially where Seasons are concerned.
Let's see what they do next Season Thanks for the cool discussion!
Try hardcore. It brings much more sense into your gameplay, makes skill matter more, and also makes achievements more valuable. Also quite easy to get into leaderboards, I just closed gr60 with my monk a couple of days ago which brought me into top400. Felt pretty cool. And my wiz is still somewhere in top1000 with as low as 48.
Oh and btw I see like everyone wants to get to the top of leaderboards and stuff.. But guys:
1. It is meant to be competitive so the number of places on "the top" is limited. Whenever you get there - someone else gets kicked out. So the fact that it requires to farm exp 8hrs a day to get to the top seems pretty ok to me. At least it feels more fair than someone getting to the top because of some super rare drops like 0,0001%.
2. You dont actually have to push the leaderboards to enjoy the game. After all D3 is not meant to be highly competitive. Try HC as I said above.
Hardcore in D3 has 1 MAJOR flaw that can't really be overlooked. That would be the servers.
I played HC on 3 DHs back pre-RoS, and it has been a waste of time. The way hardcore is structured forces players to create over defensive characters, to the point where skill required to play is actually really low. The issue is that characters NEED to be built in a way that they will survive from lag spikes, rubberbanding, and other server related issues. Unfortunately, this results in a situation where you're geared in a way that you're pretty much facerolling everything with no risk of death while the servers are stable.
HC problems also extend more than ever now that most classes can create server lag in higher GRifts.
2. add players you had fun with to fl, do the first step, dont wait to get added
3. try to group up with atleast 1 from fl to get easily 2 players from community
4. see 2.
5. see 3.
these people are usually online when youre online and a good friendlist is more worth than any clan. dont hesitate to use friend broadcast when looking for something or just ask people without grp / idling in menus.
i filled my list like this last season and now its like i got to apologize all the time for joining another grp as soon as i come online.
I know its offtopic here, but if youre a very active player who is enjoying the game, just missing the mates, i had to give you some advice to fix that
Finding people you like playing with, with the same play times is likely more difficult than you think. This may work for people that play 10 hours a day, but for people that play off and on throughout the day, it is very difficult to find players of similar skill with as flexible a schedule.
I don't like being carried and I don't like carrying people. However, similar skilled players with a similar play style aren't very easy to find. Add in play schedules, and it becomes quite difficult.
To top it off, D3 is made in a way where players need to be in a group of 4 if they want efficiency. So when you have 3 people, you add a 4th. However, this is often not the 4th player of choice, but rather some friend of someone that was online at the time. When the ideal 4th player logs in, his spot is filled. What then? Kick the curret 4th guy out because he wasn't the top choice for the spot?
D3 needs to be structured in a way that 1p, 20, 3p, AND 4p groups can compete on efficiency. That way you can stay as solo, 2p, or 3p until the players you actually want to play with are on.
Of course opinions are not unanimous. But I definitely think RMAH/AH distorted the game more, and was harder to ignore, for people who hated it. Hate seasons? Don't play season. End of story. Your non-seasonal game is completely untouched.
There was no "non-AH" mode you could play if you hated the way it distorted the game.
you literally had to press a button to get to ah or rmah. if you didnt want to, you didnt have to click that button. people felt compelled to ah to be competitive.
Exactly. You could not play a multiplayer game without it being distorted by the AH. If you only ever want to play solo, then you could ignore the AH if you wanted to. Then you only collided with the fact that the difficulty and loot drops had been tuned around the assumption of AH usage.
Loot wasn't tuned assuming AH usage. Many players including myself finished Infernal the week the game was launched, and the AH crashed and didn't even work most of the time. Infernal back then wearing random blues and yellows was really no harder than doing like a GR65 in your class set gear now.
I'm top 50 on the leaderboards, I was 20 at the highest a week ago, haven't been able to log on since. Saying that I'm Paragon level 650, everybody surrounding me is about 800-900+. I only play 2-3 hours a day, I haven't been able to play AT ALL for a week straight.
You can get onto the leaderboards without playing 8 hours a day, as any class
It's more towards the end of the seasons you will be punished by the Paragon levels for not playing all day every day. I agree fully that it takes the fun out of the game, the fact that time played is actually a bigger decider than any amount of skill that goes into the game, the ultimate combo of the players in the top 5 ranks are they have both.
I really feel they should just add a Paragon level cap to seasons, it sounds harsh, people shouldn't be punished more for playing more. But overall it will make the leaderboards MORE competitive, boiling it down to more skill than time played. I know the game has a huge luck factor with loot / GR composition but it feels like it's way too aimed at whoever plays the most wins at the moment.
Like I said before, I hit 20 being severely under-played to my fellow Demon Hunters, so there is a factor of skill involved. But overall, time wins the race
Thanks TryHard for the response - I feel like you understand the heart of why I made the thread.
Folks - I never said I wanted to be Rank 1. Like all things in life, you do have to put in the time if you want to earn the best. I know that I can not dedicate the time to be at the top, so therefore I had no aspiration to try and be at the top. I do not begrudge Quin69, or streamers like him, that play this game as their job and dedicate massive amounts of time playing. This thread was not a complaint of "Blizzard sucks/I want something for nothing/streamers blow" rather this thread is talking about "what do you do, when your character is pretty good and all you need is two ancient weapons?"
Nobody has answered that. Most of the threads fall in two categories: "don't base your gameplay on others, do what you want to have fun" or "stop whining."
I'm currently putting together one last piece of gear so I can do the support healing Monk build and start farming experience like everyone else. If I'm graced in my experience gaining travels with an ancient versions of my current weapons for the SSS build, then I'll start grinding out the GRs. When I reach a new limit I can't beat, I'll go back to farming experience.
THIS is how people progress. In one aspect of the game - the leaderboards.
Let me be clear - I WANT to progress on the leaderboards. I do not want to be at Rank 1 because I do not want to play 12 hours a day, seven days a week. However (before TryHard's response) I felt as though even if I played three to four hours, five nights a week, I would never come near being, even, in the top 200, because most folks are fantastically high in Paragon levels. I'll give it a shot and see how far I can go.
I do not want to play another class. I'll idly work on achievements. So LET ME ASK AGAIN - what else is left for me to do. I want to play my Monk. I want to progress in the GRs. If I know that most likely will never hit a cool level in the Leaderboards (200 or better) because of lack of Paragon, then the game is sorta over before it started - because I can't dedicate 10 hours a day farming experience.
That was my question. And then I went on to speculate on what a game could be like, if there were not gimmicks and Paragon issues. So players had to rely upon slightly better gear (the point of Diablo, imo) and skill. I mentioned the AH/RMAH because for me, it was always something there to do with my hours of farming and the gear that I found. You never knew when you would find something that would bring in the gold and subsequently real money if you chose to go that route.
I'm not saying "BLIZZARD SUCKS - DIABLO 3 IS DEAD!" I'm saying, let's cap Paragon, remove gimmicks (as Quin has suggested) and let good old RNG and game play skill be the guiding force for achievement.
Thoughts?
(TryHard, if you made it this far in the wall of text - love your guides!)
I don't know how it's even possible to have issues finding 2 ancient weapons after they added in the cube this season. Pretty sure my monk had the 2 ancient Uli weapons before I had even 1 ancient armor, because the cube pretty much hands out ancients for DBs. I have pretty much all the ancient weapons for monk, barb, wizard (just missing AW ancient), and WD. I would level a character, and they gear so fast that by the time it shows I ranked on the leaderboard, most people in clan/friends didn't even know i had that class leveled to 70.
I played Monk, Barb, WD, and Wiz all to somewhere in the top 500 leaderboard at some point this season, and most of them had ancient weapons and only a few pieces of ancient armor. Ancient armor actually seems much slower to get than weapons after the cube was added in.
If you're only playing 1 class, top 200 probably isn't very high a goal for 3-4 hours a day for the whole season. Monk is probably harder than some of the others due to more players playing it, but top 200 is still a lot of slots.
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On a side note, one of the things they COULD have done was to make the season journey the ultimate season goal. Get cool cosmetic portraits depending on how far you get during the WHOLE season. If season journey took the spot of the season goal, then then could put some sort of paragon restrictions on the ladders so the ladder could be more competitive. Right now, as most people realize, the ladders are mostly about time played rather than skill.
I'm not even sure why Blizz made the seasons journey a 2 week journey while the season is like 4 months long. Then again, I personally don't think seasons should be more than a couple months long in the first place (Ideally I'd like seasons to last about a month). The end of the season journey really should have been like collect all the affixes for kanai's cube, complete lv70 solo, TX rift in 1 minute, etc.
The way Blizz did it was like go make some random achievements that players can do whenever they want, and the "season" journey ends whenever the players wants to be done with the season. I'm not even going to say Blizz set the bar low here, they practically put the bar on the ground.
I don't know how it's even possible to have issues finding 2 ancient weapons after they added in the cube this season. Pretty sure my monk had the 2 ancient Uli weapons before I had even 1 ancient armor, because the cube pretty much hands out ancients for DBs. I have pretty much all the ancient weapons for monk, barb, wizard (just missing AW ancient), and WD. I would level a character, and they gear so fast that by the time it shows I ranked on the leaderboard, most people in clan/friends didn't even know i had that class leveled to 70.
I played Monk, Barb, WD, and Wiz all to somewhere in the top 500 leaderboard at some point this season, and most of them had ancient weapons and only a few pieces of ancient armor. Ancient armor actually seems much slower to get than weapons after the cube was added in.
If you're only playing 1 class, top 200 probably isn't very high a goal for 3-4 hours a day for the whole season. Monk is probably harder than some of the others due to more players playing it, but top 200 is still a lot of slots.
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On a side note, one of the things they COULD have done was to make the season journey the ultimate season goal. Get cool cosmetic portraits depending on how far you get during the WHOLE season. If season journey took the spot of the season goal, then then could put some sort of paragon restrictions on the ladders so the ladder could be more competitive. Right now, as most people realize, the ladders are mostly about time played rather than skill.
I'm not even sure why Blizz made the seasons journey a 2 week journey while the season is like 4 months long. Then again, I personally don't think seasons should be more than a couple months long in the first place (Ideally I'd like seasons to last about a month). The end of the season journey really should have been like collect all the affixes for kanai's cube, complete lv70 solo, TX rift in 1 minute, etc.
The way Blizz did it was like go make some random achievements that players can do whenever they want, and the "season" journey ends whenever the players wants to be done with the season. I'm not even going to say Blizz set the bar low here, they practically put the bar on the ground.
First, Ancient weapons. I've thrown 90% of my materials at the Cube looking for an Ancient version of my two fist weapons and have not gotten one. Not even a badly rolled Ancient. I've gotten Ancient gear relatively normally paced, but those weapons are elusive little creatures. RNG? Most likely since you apparently haven't encountered that issue. So from that perspective, can you imagine what it feels like to not be able to get past GR55 and to not be able to dedicate 10 hours a day to farming - yet I'd like to pretend that if I invest more time toward the Leaderboards, it won't be in vain?
Not flaming or anything, I'm just asking folks to look at different perspectives here. Some players do not have "good luck" and struggle to get even one Ancient weapon. However this season I've found Nemesis Bracers like it's my job. For the past three Seasons, not a single set of bracers. Didn't dedicate to farming for them, but gives you an idea of how RNG can be fickle.
Completely agree with you on the Season Journey. I feel like Blizzard sometimes has great ideas and they take it about 10% of the way forward and invest the rest of their development time on squeezing in bigger numbers to an already bloated power creep. I personally would love to see the Season Journey be something that you achieve over the length of the season and can focus on that, rather than Leaderboards. The extra swag for completing it is nice as well!
There is a simple fix to the leaderboards, paragon brackets! Like a weight class in boxing, sort of.
Bracket I: Paragon 1 to 600
Bracket 2: Paragon 600 to 800
Bracket 3: Paragon 800 to 1000
And so on..
This way you can easily keep track of your own leaderboard and the super heavyweights can brawl on their own! And maybe even give the possibility of capping your own experience gain if you want to (like the character in WoW you can go to).
Cheers for reading!
THIS! This is awesome and a FANTASTIC idea!! Input for Season 5 or RIOT!
I find my self fully geared already, and I don't want to re-roll. So I'm left with just mass farming exp which is sad and boring. I have said maybe some new gearing slots of system to add onto what we already have, but people cry power creep, even though we have paragon levels which are 100 times worth when it comes to power creep haha.
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Same here.
Same here.
Same here.
I'm trying but it seems I'm actually playing your way!! :-)
There was no "non-AH" mode you could play if you hated the way it distorted the game.
ah distorted the game in a positive way for me. it was a mini game. i could play the ah. i could make some money on rmah. anything i found had some innate worth (up until the duping). i could sell magic ias items in the beginning! imagine that. BLUES worth something other than dust. by your logic, gr distorted the game way more than anything. people cant even choose to not play gr because theyd lose out on legendary gem upgrades and huge exp boosts.
there was absolutely nothing wrong with ah. people blame ah for lots of stuff, but it was just a scapegoat. the real problem was that blizzard envisioned gearing to the highest difficulty to be a TEN YEAR quest. that was insane. that and rares over legendaries of course.
i dont agree with rmah because i dont agree with pay to win, but i made a pretty penny off it and did not pay to win myself.
I see some people bashing leaderboards, then go on to say the game takes no skill. Oh really? then where the fuck are you on the leaderboards? You can make top 500 without being P1000+. Then you say its all RNG, getting lucky with the gear. We have the cube now, you can target farm items. Now that you can get the gear, where are you on the leaderboards? Game takes no skill? Stop copying the builds you see online and play the game naturally and make your own builds. Get the items and try to make the top 50. You can't because you suck. This isn't a question of time invested. If the game truly took no skill, #1 - #1000 would be all the exact same GR lvl just different finish times.
On a side note: Seasons is shit, I did it just for the frames and went back to NS.
There really isn't a need for Auction house, just get rid of account bound unless the item has been rerolled, so that TRADING can come back to trade with anyone you want at ant period of time and not just an hour with the 3 other people you were in the game with! Diablo 2 was greater for it and D3 would be also.
You can't even trade an item to one of your friends that is re rolling another character.
1. Snapshotting, like any other similiar thing, is fair use of game mechanics, in my opinion. It might be nerfed, but not fixed, there is nothing to fix.
2. Word "leader" in "leaderboards" have some reason. This game is all about spending your time. The more time you spend, the better you know game overall and your particular class and playstyle, the better gear you get. You don't wanna spend ton of time on game and still have top positions? Well, I have bad news for you.
3. This game is super rewarding for me for these 2-3 weeks I play each season. Every season I pick new class and set a goal for myself. Last season it was grift 50, and I failed it. This season it was grift 60, and I only got to 55. Still fine. I enjoy playing this game, experiencing new classes, sets, items, playstyles.
Folks - I never said I wanted to be Rank 1. Like all things in life, you do have to put in the time if you want to earn the best. I know that I can not dedicate the time to be at the top, so therefore I had no aspiration to try and be at the top. I do not begrudge Quin69, or streamers like him, that play this game as their job and dedicate massive amounts of time playing. This thread was not a complaint of "Blizzard sucks/I want something for nothing/streamers blow" rather this thread is talking about "what do you do, when your character is pretty good and all you need is two ancient weapons?"
Nobody has answered that. Most of the threads fall in two categories: "don't base your gameplay on others, do what you want to have fun" or "stop whining."
I'm currently putting together one last piece of gear so I can do the support healing Monk build and start farming experience like everyone else. If I'm graced in my experience gaining travels with an ancient versions of my current weapons for the SSS build, then I'll start grinding out the GRs. When I reach a new limit I can't beat, I'll go back to farming experience.
THIS is how people progress. In one aspect of the game - the leaderboards.
Let me be clear - I WANT to progress on the leaderboards. I do not want to be at Rank 1 because I do not want to play 12 hours a day, seven days a week. However (before TryHard's response) I felt as though even if I played three to four hours, five nights a week, I would never come near being, even, in the top 200, because most folks are fantastically high in Paragon levels. I'll give it a shot and see how far I can go.
I do not want to play another class. I'll idly work on achievements. So LET ME ASK AGAIN - what else is left for me to do. I want to play my Monk. I want to progress in the GRs. If I know that most likely will never hit a cool level in the Leaderboards (200 or better) because of lack of Paragon, then the game is sorta over before it started - because I can't dedicate 10 hours a day farming experience.
That was my question. And then I went on to speculate on what a game could be like, if there were not gimmicks and Paragon issues. So players had to rely upon slightly better gear (the point of Diablo, imo) and skill. I mentioned the AH/RMAH because for me, it was always something there to do with my hours of farming and the gear that I found. You never knew when you would find something that would bring in the gold and subsequently real money if you chose to go that route.
I'm not saying "BLIZZARD SUCKS - DIABLO 3 IS DEAD!" I'm saying, let's cap Paragon, remove gimmicks (as Quin has suggested) and let good old RNG and game play skill be the guiding force for achievement.
Thoughts?
(TryHard, if you made it this far in the wall of text - love your guides!)
Monkalicious: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/OptimusPrime-12194/hero/79139477
Don't you think those numbers are a little off? Judging from the leaderboards, a vast majority of players are not Paragon Level 1000 and we are over a month into the season. The hardcore gamers are - so perhaps you were referencing that it would be boring for them?
I do not have ancient in every slot. I do not have ancient weapons and I've dedicated all of my materials exclusively to my Monk and trying to get them and haven't. I'm not bitter by the way - RNG is RNG for the most part. However, I would think it is fair to say that the vast majority of players do not have all ancient gear in a week. Some do - not the majority.
So yes, your statement is true - for the lucky and the hardcore.
And besides, you think adding five points to your main stat is that significant of a reward to justify no paragon caps? Five points. That's the ONLY reason that caps shouldn't be put in place, because you want that massive reward for your continued game play: five points.
I'm not sure I can agree with you.
Monkalicious: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/OptimusPrime-12194/hero/79139477
2. Play a multiplayer game with people who feel the same way? So, you mean, abandon any possibility of joining a random game, only being able to play multiplayer with like-minded friends / clanmates? Sounds like a massive distortion of the game to me.
I gotta say that you make a good point. I understand the system of reward that Paragon represents for game time and it has it's place in the game. However I wonder if capping the Paragon leveling to 50 points in each category is the way to go for Seasons? The Season is meant to be a finite amount of time and achieving Paragon level 1000 would be considered a Seasonal achievement that for the vast majority of players, would be a long term attained goal over three months. For the hardcore gamers, yes they would achieve this end cap quickly and then have to rely upon bettering their gear as a means to progression. Yes that means they will spend the majority of the season looking for slightly better gear, but it also means that they have to continually work on gearing as a means of achievement - which is what Diablo is all about; better gear.
Right now they can be the top of their game, solely, by farming experience and can not have to ever find the best gear possible to beat out other players. It's certainly a way to play, but it's not one that I think, fundamentally is best for Seasons. Unless the Season mentality is changed to the catch phrase, "Get excited for Season 5 and farming experience!"
What do you think Jasammrvica or anyone else that want's to chime in?
Monkalicious: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/OptimusPrime-12194/hero/79139477
i dont even understand what youre saying. what you choose to do with your character is on you. if you refuse to use ah then youre playing a gimped character. stick to normal or get carried by ah people. its not like there was competition with no leaderboards/gr/adventure mode. if you couldnt kill diablo in inferno, then grind a3 in a lower difficulty.
Make another character. I may make a dh or wiz, dont care if they are good or not, im really bored.
I totally see your point and it makes sense - the game is pretty much the process you just described, but with the addition of an additional five points being added to your main stat each level. Ultimately that increase itself has a break point, would you not agree? If you can't improve your gear to be full ancients, 200 extra points in main stat (40 levels after the hours playing example you gave) isn't going to make that monumental of a difference in your progression in GRs. It's going to help, don't get me wrong, but the biggest change is going to be better gear.
So once the person has reached the break point in gear, they only slightly increase their over all effectiveness in their gaming, for each hour played. I think that incentive isn't enough to justify the effect that not capping Paragon levels, has on the vast majority of players.
It's Paragon level 1000 right that gives you 50 points in every section, right? Let that be the cap. So it's an achievement to reach that level and at that point, your gaming falls right back into the same picture it is now; slightly better gear, alternate characters, alternate leaderboards or go play Hearthstone
Thoughts?
Monkalicious: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/OptimusPrime-12194/hero/79139477
To be honest (and not to rebut myself) I can see it both ways. I see the benefit of always having some minor reward for game time. I also see the benefit of making the game a bit more attainable to all the masses, especially where Seasons are concerned.
Let's see what they do next Season Thanks for the cool discussion!
Monkalicious: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/OptimusPrime-12194/hero/79139477
I played HC on 3 DHs back pre-RoS, and it has been a waste of time. The way hardcore is structured forces players to create over defensive characters, to the point where skill required to play is actually really low. The issue is that characters NEED to be built in a way that they will survive from lag spikes, rubberbanding, and other server related issues. Unfortunately, this results in a situation where you're geared in a way that you're pretty much facerolling everything with no risk of death while the servers are stable.
HC problems also extend more than ever now that most classes can create server lag in higher GRifts.
Finding people you like playing with, with the same play times is likely more difficult than you think. This may work for people that play 10 hours a day, but for people that play off and on throughout the day, it is very difficult to find players of similar skill with as flexible a schedule.I don't like being carried and I don't like carrying people. However, similar skilled players with a similar play style aren't very easy to find. Add in play schedules, and it becomes quite difficult.
To top it off, D3 is made in a way where players need to be in a group of 4 if they want efficiency. So when you have 3 people, you add a 4th. However, this is often not the 4th player of choice, but rather some friend of someone that was online at the time. When the ideal 4th player logs in, his spot is filled. What then? Kick the curret 4th guy out because he wasn't the top choice for the spot?
D3 needs to be structured in a way that 1p, 20, 3p, AND 4p groups can compete on efficiency. That way you can stay as solo, 2p, or 3p until the players you actually want to play with are on.
Loot wasn't tuned assuming AH usage. Many players including myself finished Infernal the week the game was launched, and the AH crashed and didn't even work most of the time. Infernal back then wearing random blues and yellows was really no harder than doing like a GR65 in your class set gear now.
I don't know how it's even possible to have issues finding 2 ancient weapons after they added in the cube this season. Pretty sure my monk had the 2 ancient Uli weapons before I had even 1 ancient armor, because the cube pretty much hands out ancients for DBs. I have pretty much all the ancient weapons for monk, barb, wizard (just missing AW ancient), and WD. I would level a character, and they gear so fast that by the time it shows I ranked on the leaderboard, most people in clan/friends didn't even know i had that class leveled to 70.
I played Monk, Barb, WD, and Wiz all to somewhere in the top 500 leaderboard at some point this season, and most of them had ancient weapons and only a few pieces of ancient armor. Ancient armor actually seems much slower to get than weapons after the cube was added in.
If you're only playing 1 class, top 200 probably isn't very high a goal for 3-4 hours a day for the whole season. Monk is probably harder than some of the others due to more players playing it, but top 200 is still a lot of slots.
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On a side note, one of the things they COULD have done was to make the season journey the ultimate season goal. Get cool cosmetic portraits depending on how far you get during the WHOLE season. If season journey took the spot of the season goal, then then could put some sort of paragon restrictions on the ladders so the ladder could be more competitive. Right now, as most people realize, the ladders are mostly about time played rather than skill.
I'm not even sure why Blizz made the seasons journey a 2 week journey while the season is like 4 months long. Then again, I personally don't think seasons should be more than a couple months long in the first place (Ideally I'd like seasons to last about a month). The end of the season journey really should have been like collect all the affixes for kanai's cube, complete lv70 solo, TX rift in 1 minute, etc.
The way Blizz did it was like go make some random achievements that players can do whenever they want, and the "season" journey ends whenever the players wants to be done with the season. I'm not even going to say Blizz set the bar low here, they practically put the bar on the ground.
First, Ancient weapons. I've thrown 90% of my materials at the Cube looking for an Ancient version of my two fist weapons and have not gotten one. Not even a badly rolled Ancient. I've gotten Ancient gear relatively normally paced, but those weapons are elusive little creatures. RNG? Most likely since you apparently haven't encountered that issue. So from that perspective, can you imagine what it feels like to not be able to get past GR55 and to not be able to dedicate 10 hours a day to farming - yet I'd like to pretend that if I invest more time toward the Leaderboards, it won't be in vain?
Not flaming or anything, I'm just asking folks to look at different perspectives here. Some players do not have "good luck" and struggle to get even one Ancient weapon. However this season I've found Nemesis Bracers like it's my job. For the past three Seasons, not a single set of bracers. Didn't dedicate to farming for them, but gives you an idea of how RNG can be fickle.
Completely agree with you on the Season Journey. I feel like Blizzard sometimes has great ideas and they take it about 10% of the way forward and invest the rest of their development time on squeezing in bigger numbers to an already bloated power creep. I personally would love to see the Season Journey be something that you achieve over the length of the season and can focus on that, rather than Leaderboards. The extra swag for completing it is nice as well!
THIS! This is awesome and a FANTASTIC idea!! Input for Season 5 or RIOT!
Monkalicious: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/OptimusPrime-12194/hero/79139477
I find my self fully geared already, and I don't want to re-roll. So I'm left with just mass farming exp which is sad and boring. I have said maybe some new gearing slots of system to add onto what we already have, but people cry power creep, even though we have paragon levels which are 100 times worth when it comes to power creep haha.