Instrument choice?

[SNowfreak]

Hey guys, I love music, writing lyrics, and I want to take up an instrument but am not 100% sure what it is i would want to learn. I have two things in mind, which is a keyboard and a guitar. The thing about it is i wanna be able to play songs that sound really good standalone on it. By this I mean, drums and other instruments are not as practical for playing a song on your own. I don't know if I'm looking over any other option....because I'm open to ideas : P.

[DannyL]

Both of those instruments are fantastic and have an amazing sound especially if you are going for acoustic to play classical guitar that sounds great on its own. The only problem is acoustic is very difficult to play well and or fast whereas electric is very easy to pick up quickly. I personally have been both a singer and a drummer in bands so I am not very good at either, but guitar can easily get you more ladies as an added benefit. I personally would choose guitar, but that is simply because of my love for Rock and Metal.

[SNowfreak]

haha honestly i love it, but one thing that is so discouraging is that it is SOOO difficult and its hard to see how i could ever get that good, but i know that somehow it happens...just takes practice. I love keyboard, but I do think guitar is probably what id opt for...not sure though. And i think id go electric but acoustic is nice.

[goodguy8705]

Piano all the way. Electric guitar sucks by itself and is much better suited for band work. If you prefer to play alone, acoustic guitar or piano are your choices.

[SNowfreak]

haha sound kind of biased and opinionated but i hear ya ;). I just kind of like electric because you can kind of do acousticesque work on it AND play hard stuff with people....and keyboard is just cool. piano is awesome but not exactly practical for ease of use and bringing places. So i dont know about that.

what is a good acoustic guitar brand?

[Johnny_Death]

what is a good acoustic guitar brand?

Allow me to direct you to a great thread at another forum for that.

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=337075

You'll want to spend at least $300 for the guitar. Reason being, solid top guitars start around there. Don't shortchange yourself.

Best thing you can do is research some models (like on that thread I showed you) and go to a guitar store with them in mind. Just play around on them (bring a friend that can play if possible) or just kind of hold it in your hands and see what feels good.

DO NOT buy online unless you have to. A particular guitar may not sound like another of the exact same model.

A friend of mine picked up a Washburn D10 just like on that page and it plays nice, it's cheap, and comes with a case.

[winstonthe4th]

Personally, why not just learn both of them?

If you want to songwrite I'd personally say that the keyboard is better, so much easier to have the chord progression and a melody at the same time.

[DieHardDiabloFan]

Personally, I think the guitar stands better on its own than the keyboards. And you don't need to plug it. And I play it myself. And it rocks.

[Johnny_Death]

I will say if you work on keyboard, you'll know your music. If you learn guitar you'll probably just do what 99% of guitarists do and stick to tabs without really looking into music theory. Either way you go, it's probably best to find a good teacher.

[Equinox]

I'd say keyboard, because you can do virtually everything with it...
I have an acoustic guitar, and while it's nice and all, there is barely anything I can play with it that's been made using keyboards. Electric guitars are a bit better, but you need an expensive one often, and they're still limited in terms of how you present stuff.

[Spedron]

Well im in my highschool band and i play percussion so my favorite is obvious.

[SNowfreak]

Thanks for the advice guys. The bad thing is I don't know if i will be able to get some professional teacher, and stubbornly i kinda don't want to. But that being said i know a few people who arent the best but know what they are doing on guitar so if i took that up i could ask them. And i know somewhat how to work one, so i think it would be something that is more practice and experimentation....hey its not impossible ;) lol.

If anyone has any advice on what keyboards, electric, and acoustic guitars are good, please dont hesitate. That being said, i am not going to spend an arm and a leg just yet. If i grow to love it and get decent I will invest more next time. For now AROUND 300 is good, but id be willing to stretch it to 400 or whatever maybe. I guess it really all depends just how good the item is for my money.

[SNowfreak]

oh and isn't it better to have more frets? I am comparing two guitars and its the only difference between them.

[Seth]

Piano all the way. Electric guitar sucks by itself and is much better suited for band work. If you prefer to play alone, acoustic guitar or piano are your choices.

I deeply second this. They're the most practical and depending on what you want, you can get very simple, heavy, joyous, or complex feelings from either, with the benefit of not having a whole band :)

[Murderface]

If you want to play guitar I'd recommend first learning basic chord progressions and the pentatonic and blues scales. As you get more advanced move on to the Phyrgian, Diminished, and Apreggio scales, they are the backbone of metal and classical music. Diminished being the most flexible.

[Johnny_Death]

oh and isn't it better to have more frets? I am comparing two guitars and its the only difference between them.

Not really. It just gives you a slightly higher range is all.

Edits: Now here's a lovely guitar. http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Seagull-The-Original-S6-Acoustic-Guitar?sku=512120 Seagull makes reeeally nice acoustics.

[SNowfreak]

Thanks Johnny D for the specific advice on this all. oh and by the way, as shallow as this may sound, i love the looks of an instrument and i really like acoustic guitars with the look like these.

http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Fender-CD60-Dreadnought-Acoustic-Guitar?sku=513903

http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Washburn-D10QSB-Dreadnought-Quilt-Acoustic-Sunburst-wcase?sku=516862

Didn't you say the second one is a good guitar that your friend just bought?

I am contemplating what to get, but i honestly think if i go with a guitar it will probably be electric, and so far I'm seeing Schecter as my pick, but if you have any advice it is appreciated.

[3CXOD]

I'm mostly exclusive to Violin and Bass Guitar.

I'd actually like to learn the Piano.

But if you want to choose out of them two.. go with the Guitar.
Preferably acoustic.

[SNowfreak]

why acoustic? what is it that you like better about it than electric? The main reason I am thinking of doing electric is because it can be more versatile (playing soft, hard, alone and together) than acoustic IMO. Both are good but i think electric is more suiting for me.

[AcidReign]

I'd take up guitar if I were you. It's amazing how many people can be impressed by a skilled guitarist...

[Johnny_Death]

I wouldn't recommend either of those because neither has a solid top. The top is the piece of the body with the sound hole in it, and it is essentially the guitar's soundboard. You want one with a solid piece of wood rather than a laminate top, because simply put it will sound much better. Solid tops are made of a solid piece of wood, and laminate tops are made of pressed wood with glue, which reduces the level at which it can resonate. Additionally, solid tops "age" as you play them, so it will sound better as you play better :). If the guitar has a solid top, it WILL say so.

If nothing else, make absolutely certain your guitar has a solid top! These ones come in some different styles you might like, and have a solid top.
http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Alvarez-RD20S-Regent-Series-Dreadnought-Acoustic-Guitar?sku=518725

This is the Washburn I was talking about. Probably not your flavor I'm taking :P
http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Washburn-D10S-Acoustic-Guitar-?sku=515152

I don't know nearly as much about electrics, but if you look around the Ultimate Guitar forums I'm sure there's a sticky dedicated to recommended electrics. I've heard you want to spend money on the amp first, guitar second. A good guitar can't save a shitty amp, but a good amp can save a shitty guitar.

Just cause you get an acoustic first doesn't mean you can't get an electric later, and vice versa. BUT if you get an acoustic first you'll develop finger strength more quickly. If you go electric first you may find it hard to get into acoustic later. It's cool to be able to play anywhere you want without having to drag an amp with you. Plus, chicks dig acoustic :D

[Party_Foul]

I have a Epiphone guitar that looks a lot like the 1st picture you posted Snowfreak. I suggest you play acoustic, then electric.

[teppy]

i've played acoustic for about 5 years now. i suggest getting an ibanez as a starter acoustic. good quality guitars for the price

[goodguy8705]

Here is the truth. Everyone and their sister plays guitar these days. Seriously, get an 8 octave electric piano and soon you will be banging more chicks than you can count*.

*Probably not true.

[Seth]

and soon you will be banging more chicks than you can count*.

*Probably not true.

Depends how well you can count ;)

[SNowfreak]

Haha i hear ya goodguy about how everyone plays guitar, but the beauty of music is you can be unique no matter what...i mean of course SOMEONE SOMEWHERE has done it at SOME point, but you can be creative and even if you are not the best, you can still think up some original and interesting melodies ;).

[goodguy8705]

Lets be realistic. A lot of people want to learn to play an instrument specifically to impress the ladies. If this hasn't crossed your mind, you're either gay or a liar.

Now, when a girl hears that every guy she meets plays guitar, that piano player is going to sound pretty damn banging.

Trust me. I'm all knowing.

[SNowfreak]

In your opinion (whoever reads this lol), how much should i spend on my first guitar...I was thinking of spending around 300 bucks on something like a schecter omen, while some people say spend more, some less.

p.s. - Goodguy, I am straight and if it attracts ladies, great, but i am learning an instrument because i enjoy music and want to create songs and so forth. So honestly, it isnt exactly my priority. Besides, my amazing looks get the girls right away : P.

[goodguy8705]

I didn't say it was number one on your list of goals. I just know that it's on there.

Spend between $150 - 250.

[SNowfreak]

why? is 300 dollars really not worth it...i mean i have heard someone play the schecter omen (which had cost him when he bought it more than it does now) and it sounds pretty good and is holding up well. If i spend 150 or something will this be compromised? I am just saying, I would rather spend a few more bucks in order to get a quality product.

[winstonthe4th]

Just out of curiosity, how much previous musical knowledge do you have and what are you planning on doing with your instrument? I think the options are pretty much performing, writing, just having fun, or a combination of the three.

EDIT: For your information, quality is pretty irrelevant until you start to get pretty good at an instrument. Or at least that's what I've found from my experience.

[SNowfreak]

I have a LITTLE knowledge...i definitely am far from someone who knows what they are doing. I have played a tiny bit for fun and tried things and to learn easy parts of songs. I am not planning on becoming a famous person and writing for the sake of money : P...but honestly I want to get good at guitar and i love writing lyrics. I would also love to be able to hang out with my freinds and jam, so its a hobby no doubt, but something i wanna get good at and make songs for the sake of my own enjoyment.

so for an eletric guitar, what would you go with? Do you know what good brands and models are or no? What about the durability of the instrument and the feel. Is that not going to be a big difference as the sound wont (until you are good), or is something that is 150 going to suck and break and a 300 be much better?

[goodguy8705]

There is a decently high chance you give up before you become proficient. Would you rather have wasted $150 or $300?

Also, until you stop sucking, quality hardly matters. Buy a $150 guitar now and save money for a better guitar that way if you ever stop sucking, you will have money for a nice guitar, as well as knowledge on what you should be looking for.

[SNowfreak]

lol although you make some good points goodguy, I think as long as i try hard and want it, i can become decent ;). i think nearly everything is that way for everyone, while mastering is another story. Should i start with a starter kit, or should I buy thing seperate? shucks....i hate the thought that I am going to have a guitar that doesnt please me when i look at it lol.

[winstonthe4th]

Alright, well, since you have little knowledge, I would recommend staying away from the guitar...because honestly, people who pick up the guitar and don't understand music usually end up just getting fast, but when you ask them what key they're in they just look at you funny. If you start with keyboard/piano and get a solid teacher you might start understanding how to make music rather than just playing random chords and hoping they sound good.

But if your mind is set on getting a guitar I'd say just buy an inexpensive one, because then if you find that you don't have the will to learn music then you didn't waste a whole chunk of cash.

EDIT: Curse you Goodguy beating me to post. And Snowfreak too. Am I really that slow a poster?

EDIT 2: After reading Goodguy's post, definitely follow his advice, its what I was trying to say, its just he said it better.

[goodguy8705]

Do whatever you like. You asked, and I answered.

I just took up guitar recently and as much as I'd love to learn, I don't have the time for it so here I have $500 worth of guitar equipment collecting dust in my bedroom.

[SNowfreak]

haha thanks for the help guys. I think id rather take up guitar, and with some guidance from freinds and videos or whatever, I can figure it out.

[Johnny_Death]

Spend the money to get something you're happy with. You don't want to realize you have a shitty guitar a year down the road when you're starting to get good. Don't get a starter kit. Epiphone Les Paul Standards are a solid choice. Ibanez makes excellent electrics too.

[Equinox]

If you want to MAKE music, you should get keyboard. A synthesizer has no limits, and I am, personally, mostly interested in synthesized music. Acoustic guitar or normal piano are limited to their areas and frequencies, and I've met a lot of pianists and heard them play and I guess there's something with my ear but I find piano music rather boring. I prefer guitar, violin (now this one attracts the ladies, if anything, it's very hard to master), lower frequency string instruments. And keyboard.

You don't want to realize you have a shitty guitar a year down the road when you're starting to get good.And you don't want to realize that guitar is not for you but you've already spent a huge amount of money on it. If it is really your thing, you can always get money for a new one.

[Blackwing]

I prefer music performed by a recorder, in C minor.

[winstonthe4th]

haha thanks for the help guys. I think id rather take up guitar, and with some guidance from freinds and videos or whatever, I can figure it out.
Well, if you just want to learn how to play the guitar from videos on youtube then I'm sorry, but I'm extremely skeptical about you doing anything but being able to read tab and copy other works. At least get a teacher.

and I've met a lot of pianists and heard them play and I guess there's something with my ear but I find piano music rather boring.
I would recommend looking up some Chopin, that is really good piano music in my opinion.

I prefer music performed by a recorder, in C minor.
I assume you're attempting sarcasm. Try F# Locrian next time, much worse to listen to.

[Blackwing]

I assume you're attempting sarcasm. Try F# Locrian next time, much worse to listen to.


I was never good at it.

[winstonthe4th]

I was never good at it.Nah, it wasn't too bad, I was just suggesting a little improvement.

[Blackwing]

Nah, it wasn't too bad, I was just suggesting a little improvement.

C minor seems to be the first thing that comes to mind when it comes to brass or woodwind for me.

[Johnny_Death]

And you don't want to realize that guitar is not for you but you've already spent a huge amount of money on it. If it is really your thing, you can always get money for a new one.

He doesn't need to spend a huge amount of money. If he takes all your advice and gets a cheapo guitar, he's basically buying time to see if he likes playing, using an inferior instrument that he'll end up getting rid of either way. He might as well spend time with a friend that has a guitar and play on that for a little while.

If he spends just a few hundred more (like the price of a game system, total) he can get something that he can literally play the rest of life.

Snowfreak, whatever you do, play your instrument before you buy it. Unless you don't have a music store in your area or something...

[Equinox]

If he takes all your advice and gets a cheapo guitarUnless you can quote where the hell did I say that, take that back, please.

Cheap is a stretchable term. For some, $50 is cheap, for others, $300 is cheap. You are not making much sense. You say he shouldn't buy a cheap guitar, but then you say you don't need to spend a lot of money to get a good guitar. Basically, you're telling him to buy a good cheap guitar. Get your stuff straight.

[Johnny_Death]

Sorry for the relative terms. How bout, "if he takes goodguy's advice and gets a $150 guitar..."

And I have been giving him specific advice. In my first post I told him he'll spend around $300 if he wants a decent acoustic. I named models. I pointed him to a thread at a guitar forum with multiple recommendations. I told him exact things to look for. I have my stuff straight, thanks.

[goodguy8705]

Oh do you?

[-Mephisto's Lament-]

It's not hard to learn guitar on your own..I've learned to play several intros on my own, without help from a pro. For the harder pieces, I just asked my friend to teach me them..which was of course, for free. A Fender guitar with a big speaker that has a togellable(sp? meh) distortion/normal effect costs 150$ here, and can be bought for free. Fender is a pretty badass brand..so 150$ is damn grand. If you have the cash, go for the more expensive flying V or flying Z..even those can be found cheap. So you see, it's not really a matter of money.

My instrument of choice? Well, learning bass can be easier than learning guitar. Depends what genre you want to play in. Metal will take a large amount of skill, given that we're tlaking about decent Metal, and not about Trivium, Lamb of God, Linkin Park or whatever shite band posers like these days. If you want to go into Rock or something like that, any instrument isn't that hard to play, you just need to find out what really defines you. Do you have charisma? Become a vocalist, or a guitarist. Are you a beast of a man who enjoys fucking girls, and going wild? Go for the drums. Are you a guy who loves music, and just wants to play it, regardless of the fact that his notes can go unheard? Go for a bass. Really, only you can answer that question.

[goodguy8705]

What electric guitar he gets depends on what genre he wants to play in.

In metal, it doesn't really matter what guitar he uses because no matter what he plays, it sounds like crap.

[SNowfreak]

I plan on playing everything from very soft rock to very hard rock. I would say a little metal, but a lot of people would scoff at metal i listen to as its "poser" metal in some peoples eyes lol.

[Johnny_Death]

So you're going with an electric guitar for sure?

[Thasador]

My perferred instrument is the electric guitar...mainly my B.C. Rich Avenge.

[3CXOD]

My perferred instrument is the electric guitar...mainly my B.C. Rich Avenge.

Niiiice.
Love the B.C. Rich guitar line.

I used to own a NJ series B.C. Rich Beast Bass.
Damn thing was bad ass!

I'd like if they made a Violin..

[SNowfreak]

yeah I'm 99.9 % sure that's what I'm going with is an electric guitar. I have a couple guitars in mind but i am planning on going to stores and playing some first.

[Blackwing]

yeah I'm 99.9 % sure that's what I'm going with is an electric guitar. I have a couple guitars in mind but i am planning on going to stores and playing some first.

Cherry Gibson!

[-Mephisto's Lament-]

What electric guitar he gets depends on what genre he wants to play in.

In metal, it doesn't really matter what guitar he uses because no matter what he plays, it sounds like crap.

I'm willing to bet anything that you haven't listened to more than 5 Metal bands, 5 of which are mainstream crap. Drop your ignorance, and get off that high pedestal which you like to think you're deserving of. If you want to debate music genres, be my guest..create another topic, and ask me to a reasonable, adult debate. If not, avoid childish and ignorant remarks like that one you just pulled out from your stupid idea hat.

[goodguy8705]

I'm willing to bet anything that you haven't listened to more than 5 Metal bands, 5 of which are mainstream crap. Drop your ignorance, and get off that high pedestal which you like to think you're deserving of. If you want to debate music genres, be my guest..create another topic, and ask me to a reasonable, adult debate. If not, avoid childish and ignorant remarks like that one you just pulled out from your stupid idea hat.

I've listened to a ton of shitty metal. What I hate about metal more than the music is how the fans think they're tough because they listen to metal. That cracks me up. I know guys that listens to Britney Spears that would kill all of you.

[-Mephisto's Lament-]

Yeah, I sure am acting like a guy who can kick everybody's ass, solely because I listen to Metal. Do you read your posts a time over before you hit the Post button? I think you should start doing that. What have you listened to? Please tell me, I'm dying to know. I pray to God you don't go on Wikipedia to get some band names so you don't come off as a totally ignorant guy spewing out nonsensical gibberish to sound knowledgeable. Baffle me.

[goodguy8705]

Yeah, I sure am acting like a guy who can kick everybody's ass, solely because I listen to Metal. Do you read your posts a time over before you hit the Post button? I think you should start doing that. What have you listened to? Please tell me, I'm dying to know. I pray to God you don't go on Wikipedia to get some band names so you don't come off as a totally ignorant guy spewing out nonsensical gibberish to sound knowledgeable. Baffle me.

I didn't say you. I said the fans in general. Every metal fan I know in real life acts like they are tough as shit. They aren't.

I don't memorize names of metal bands. I do read all the metal threads here and occasionally pop onto youtube to listen to what you metal fans thinks is awesome. Usually, it's not.

[3CXOD]

0.o I <3 Metal. lol

[SNowfreak]

I am not a big metal head like some, but for the metal that i like it is things like, still remains, in flames, killswitch engage, Five Finger Death Punch and other stuff that some people may not consider metal : P.

[-Mephisto's Lament-]

You're describing the typical douchebag who listens to Trivium and Bullet For My Boyfriend and hangs out at Hot Topic.

Memorize band names? I know names of artists..artists which I've only listened to one song from their entire discography. This just furthermore proves that you have nothing to back up your ignorant words.

Step back into topic..this is quickly turning into a flamfest.

[goodguy8705]

Really? I don't waste my time memorizing the ridiculous names metal bands have, ESPECIALLY considering I no intention of listening to them again.

I can spew off a ton of metal bands, but I couldn't for the life of me remember which shitty songs belonged to which shitty bands.

[-Mephisto's Lament-]

It's not like you put the band names on a piece of paper and memorize them all night long.

When you try something as much as you're trying to say you've tried, you tend to memorize things about it. The very least thing you could have memorized are song names, and to which band each song belonged to. Give it up, you're lying. I couldn't care less, but your pseudo-egotistical self is getting annoying. Leave that for the people who are good at it.

I'm done with this. I've destroyed you one too many times, and your "I LISTENED TO METAL..I JUST DON'T REMEMBER WHAT I LISTENED TO AT ALL..BUT IT SUCKS..IT SUCKS I TELLS YA!" bullshit is irritating enough.

[Equinox]

I'll side with goodguy here. If I don't like something, I will not remember it, and I will not listen to it for a long time, either.
I certainly don't remember the song names, and the fact that every band has a song titled "Blue Sky" and "Time" doesn't help.
In fact, genres do not matter. 99% of metal is crap. 99% of prog rock is crap, but somewhere in that 1% is PF and APP. Perhaps there is some 1% like that in metal, but I haven't found it yet.

[-Mephisto's Lament-]

I'm just dying to know what you've listened to to be able to call the entire genre crap. I mean, I call Rap, R&B, Trance, Techno and all that crap..but I've listened to them as much as I've listened to fucking Metal for crying out loud..that's what enables me to call those genres "crap".

What do you even listen to?

[goodguy8705]

I'm confused. You've never destroyed me in your entire life. Are you retarded?

Some of the ones that come to mine are Rammstein and Gorgoroth. I remember Gorgoroth because it was the worst shit I've ever heard. I've also listened to some Combichrist garbage which is like industrial/metal. Metallica sucks too.

You're so goddamn stupid. Why do you think I'd remember a band I've listened to for 5 minutes that I didn't like?

[-Mephisto's Lament-]

Because you're fucking slow if you think you can judge anything after 5 minutes.

Rammstein? Industrial shit? Even I don't listen to that crap. Gorgoroth? Are you fucking crazy? Nobody can listen to Raw Black Metal and like it instantaneously. That genre is an acquired taste. A lot of Metalheads don't listen to Black Metal..nothing new. Combichrist? Lol, seriously..just lol. Metallica though..they have a LOT of mainstream crap..if you don't like that..it's your problem, not theirs..they have songs for a shitload of tastes. From Thrash, to Heavy Metal. From Hard Rock, to Soft Rock, and plain Instrumentals. You're just Metally Retarded or something (typo intended).

I swear, every post of yours is so hilarious..I feel bad replying to it.

[Equinox]

I'm just dying to know what you've listened to to be able to call the entire genre crap.Pick any metal song you like. That is what I call crap.
I've never been recommended a good metal song. The moment a song ceases to be hard rock and becomes metal I can no longer like it, for some reason. This assuming that Nightwish is hard rock (I don't think most people accept it as metal but I am not really sure).

What do you even listen to?PF, APP, and ELO.

[-Mephisto's Lament-]

Nightwish are Symphonic Metal.

Check these out. If you don't listen to them with an open mind, then don't bother, really.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylfYBeW28U4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4ZeQ2bCr24

[Lestater]

Equinox, don't be ignorant, no single genre is crap, people just have different opinions. You're welcome to say you think it's crap ,but you can't disprove opinions, it's nauseating at best.

[Blackwing]

Equinox, don't be ignorant, no single genre is crap, people just have different opinions. You're welcome to say you think it's crap ,but you can't disprove opinions, it's nauseating at best.

A valid point. That is what I like about opinions.

[-Mephisto's Lament-]

Opinions are based off of experience. I can't say "Italy has horrible buildings" if I've never seen Italy's buildings. This is why I'm bothering with this..else I wouldn't care. If Dave Mustaine came over and told me "I hate Heavy Metal"..I'd say "Oh well", since I know 100% that he has listened to everything there is in that genre..and that that is his opinion. This isn't the case here..hence me arguing.

[Equinox]

Equinox, don't be ignorant, no single genre is crapI said 99% is. Not the genre. What I am basically saying is that the amount of music out there is so huge that the good stuff gets lost among it all.

And everything a person ever says is an opinion. I'm not being ignorant, merely honest. Most people don't like my band, I don't complain about it, I just know it's not for everyone.Nightwish are Symphonic Metal.By whose directive?

[-Mephisto's Lament-]

Please refer to my above post.

[Blackwing]

Opinions are based off of experience. I can't say "Italy has horrible buildings" if I've never seen Italy's buildings. This is why I'm bothering with this..else I wouldn't care. If Dave Mustaine came over and told me "I hate Heavy Metal"..I'd say "Oh well", since I know 100% that he has listened to everything there is in that genre..and that that is his opinion. This isn't the case here..hence me arguing.

Opinions can be based off of experience. I've heard very respectable opinions based on something the opinionator has never been directly involved with. Arguing only leads to more arguing, or unnecessary submissions, which can be poison to the self-esteem.

Equinox, based on many standards, Nightwish is symphonic metal, for the symphonic instruments mixed with the metal of guitars, etc.

[Lestater]

I said 99% is. Not the genre. What I am basically saying is that the amount of music out there is so huge that the good stuff gets lost among it all.

And everything a person ever says is an opinion. I'm not being ignorant, merely honest. Most people don't like my band, I don't complain about it, I just know it's not for everyone.By whose directive?

Who are you to define what's good and not?

The problem I have is that you're saying it is crap, when it would be better to say that you simpley think that it's crap. But I guess everyone can be a little stubborn.:thumbsup:

Any argument that involves opinions is like an unstoppable force and immovable object.

(I'm all done with this topic, anything else directed to me, I either won't read and/or won't reply to)

[-Mephisto's Lament-]

You can't use unrelated examples. This is a pretty clear cut topic. You can have an opinion only if you've listened to enough (in this case) Metal..all its genres..to enable you to say something like "Metal is crap". I'm not "arguing", nor am I "flaming"..I'm simply enlightening their closed minds. Yes, I call many genres "Crap"..but I assure, I've tested those genres time and time and time again.

Nightwish is for the people who can't handle heavier forms of Metal..or can, but like that Symphonic touch. Kamelot annihilate Nightwish.

[Blackwing]

You can't use unrelated examples. This is a pretty clear cut topic. You can have an opinion only if you've listened to enough (in this case) Metal..all its genres..to enable you to say something like "Metal is crap". I'm not "arguing", nor am I "flaming"..I'm simply enlightening their closed minds. Yes, I call many genres "Crap"..but I assure, I've tested those genres time and time and time again.

Nightwish is for the people who can't handle heavier forms of Metal..or can, but like that Symphonic touch. Kamelot annihilate Nightwish.

What I'm saying is anyone can have an opinion. That is why they are called opinions. But their relevancy and validity can be questioned at all times.

[Equinox]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylfYBeW28U4That particular song is not metal. I know the band is, but there is no way that's metal lol, that's just rock or pop or whatever. There is a small guitar spitz in there somewhere, but it's nowhere near as strong as Stargazer which is hard rock as far as I know.
Nevertheless, I do not like it too much (I think it has something to do with the voice). Whenever I hear these songs I always feel they didn't work anywhere near as hard as APP did to refine their stuff, both music and voice wise. I have a big comparison problem. I can somewhat still handle ELO though but I think it has something to do with the disrepancy between ELO and APP styles.

[-Mephisto's Lament-]

The second song? I have no idea what you like in a song..so personally, I can't do much to help you. I assure you though..there's something for you. Notice how many members here listen to Metal AND Pink Floyd.

[LinkX]

1C - Arguing

Argument and Debate are two different things. Despite the divide between them being very small, there definitely is one. To put it simply, the main difference is civility. In a debate, people take different sides and attempt to prove their point. They remain polite and stick to fact and reason to prove their points. In an argument, people may resort to insults, personal attacks, and may abandon reason in exchange for violent emotions. Stick to debates. Arguing leads to flaming, which is not allowed, so don't do it.


Please remain civil. Thankyou.

[Equinox]

Who are you to define what's good and not?A human?
If I give you an APP song, you're going to say it sucks. As any human, you're voicing your opinion. What's the problem?

The problem I have is that you're saying it is crap, when it would be better to say that you simpley think that it's crap.I see 0 difference. A person always says what they think. Why do I have to add that "I think" every time I post what I think? It's understood already.
If you think that when someone says "that sucks" they're not saying an opinion, you have too much regard for that person.
APP has about 1000 fans. Which means everyone else hates it. If I cared abotu what other people ahve to say about APP I wouldn't be able to listen to it.

You can't use unrelated examples. This is a pretty clear cut topic. You can have an opinion only if you've listened to enough (in this case) Metal..all its genres..to enable you to say something like "Metal is crap". I'm not "arguing", nor am I "flaming"..I'm simply enlightening their closed minds. Yes, I call many genres "Crap"..but I assure, I've tested those genres time and time and time again.I can have an opinion regardless of how much I listened. You can never listen to 100% of music, virtually impossible.

I'll shock you. I think 99% of music excluding classical is crap. In the time and the amount of bands I listened to, so rarely do I find anything that I can listen to without getting bored of it 5 minutes later and without getting annoyed, that I can make no other conclusion. It's a statistical thing. And if you know anything about statistics, nobody knows much about the population, it's too big. You estimate the population via the sample that you already have.

Nightwish is for the people who can't handle heavier forms of Metal..or can, but like that Symphonic touch. Kamelot annihilate Nightwish.I wonder what "can't handle" means.
I don't consider jamming the guitar as loud as possible anything to be proud of. This is what pisses me off with metal. They think the louder, the better.Notice how many members here listen to Metal AND Pink Floyd.And not one of them listens to APP. The scary thing about APP is, it's all good. Every album is good. Nearly every song is good, and those that aren't are always liked by someone else. It's ridiculous. Even PF never got there.

[-Mephisto's Lament-]

Saying "it's crap" is like stating a fact. Saying "I merely think it's crap" is clearly stating an opinion. If you think those two fall in the same line..then that's ridiculous.

Again, refer to my post pertaining what opinions are. What you've listened to from Metal doesn't entitle you to have an opinion stating "Metal sucks"..quite simply. Whatever though..think whatever you think..I don't know why I even bother.

[Equinox]

Saying "it's crap" is like stating a fact. Saying "I merely think it's crap" is clearly stating an opinion. If you think those two fall in the same line..then that's ridiculous.If I give you an APP song, you will say it's crap and you won't state it as "I think".
Nobody ever does. When I give people my songs, they just say they suck.
So I'm just returning the favor. People do not value another's music taste, so I'm not going to, especially if all people can listen to is rhytmic loud NOISE.

[Blackwing]

I believe this thread has lost its purpose, and has gained a much more sinister one.

[-Mephisto's Lament-]

I can have an opinion regardless of how much I listened. You can never listen to 100% of music, virtually impossible.

I'll shock you. I think 99% of music excluding classical is crap. In the time and the amount of bands I listened to, so rarely do I find anything that I can listen to without getting bored of it 5 minutes later and without getting annoyed, that I can make no other conclusion. It's a statistical thing. And if you know anything about statistics, nobody knows much about the population, it's too big. You estimate the population via the sample that you already have.

I wonder what "can't handle" means.
I don't consider jamming the guitar as loud as possible anything to be proud of. This is what pisses me off with metal. They think the louder, the better.And not one of them listens to APP.

Who said you had to listen to 99% of music? Listening to 80% of the Metal put out there is extremely doable. Listening to 40% enables you to have a pretty damn solid opinion.

"I don't consider jamming the guitar as loud as possible anything to be proud of. This is what pisses me off with metal. They think the louder, the better.And not one of them listens to APP."

That alone speaks volumes to me, and tells me that you haven't even listened to .5% of any type of Metal out there..literally. Come Clarity, Face of Melinda, Benighted, Unforgiven I, II, and III, Outlaw Torn, Almost Honest, The Call of Ktulu, Wherever I may Roam, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Motorhead, Use the Man, Blood of hereos..TONS AND TONS of other bands and songs which DO NOT have ANY "jamming the guitar as loud as possible, thinking the louder the better." Please, spare yourself more embarassment, and spare me the headache. Lock this topic, I beg of you.

[Blackwing]

Who said you had to listen to 99% of music? Listening to 80% of the Metal put out there is extremely doable. Listening to 40% enables you to have a pretty damn solid opinion.

"I don't consider jamming the guitar as loud as possible anything to be proud of. This is what pisses me off with metal. They think the louder, the better.And not one of them listens to APP."

That alone speaks volumes to me, and tells me that you haven't even listened to .5% of any type of Metal out there..literally. Come Clarity, Face of Melinda, Benighted, Unforgiven I, II, and III, Outlaw Torn, Almost Honest, The Call of Ktulu, Wherever I may Roam, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Motorhead, Use the Man, Blood of hereos..TONS AND TONS of other bands and songs which DO NOT have ANY "jamming the guitar as loud as possible, thinking the louder the better." Please, spare yourself more embarassment, and spare me the headache. Lock this topic, I beg of you.

I do agree to Mephisto, saying that 'jamming the guitar...' is stereotyping one type of music.

[-Mephisto's Lament-]

Yeah..her musical experience pertaining Metal music sure has taught her volumes.

[Seth]

The thread's topic has been resolved and it is now very off topic and leaning in directions that are against policy. If the OP would like this opened back up, he can PM a mod or admin, so long as this thread becomes again on topic.

Thanks,
Magistrate