I'm sorry but your argument is completely redundant and entirely based on objective opinion. Using the skill calculator as a primary and in-fact, only source, allows your opinion to be not even 30% accurate. Have you played inferno difficulty with a WD using another build besides pets? No? How surprising.
You cannot state as fact that no other build that does not use pets will not be viable in inferno difficulty, it may prove to be more difficult, but it will still be quite possible. I remember seeing the devs showing of a petless and melee WD in one of their panels at Blizzcon 2011 - Where it was stated that they were in inferno difficulty. If my memory doesn't serve me right, you point is still invalid to the fact that you have not played the game and therefor, have no understanding of how alternate builds will turn out to be in inferno difficulty.
Please do not reply without reading my full post and no flaming/trolling as well as fully explain your build / link.
You say this yet, every single reply I have seen that you have made, you have abused someone when they have been trying to refute your argument. I would classify those responses as trolling and flaming.
Also I don't need to read your entire post nor prove a build of my own to refute your opinion, as you have no primary source, nor a complete secondary source to prove your own argument.
So you are sticking with the assumption that the wall of zombies allows monsters to pass through?
most likely considering it would make the most sense. walking through would be better IMO, they slowly walk through the wall while being bombarded for a good amount of dmg.
Wow.... Since when does walking THROUGH a wall make sense?
I guess I've just been doing it wrong all my life.
I look at this thread and think "If we could all get into a room with a whiteboard we would all agree that we have speculated too far and must begin placing bets on who is right instead of degrading the valid speculation of others"
Also, the walk through walls, and the length/width and the other things in a similar vein generally have weak arguments behind them. And I would like to explore why if folks would be interested.
'It's a wall, you can't walk through a wall' --I loved the game Red Rover It is all about running through a wall of your friends. It was tough, but you could do it. Wall is not necessarily a structure or a solid obstacle it can be the idea of a line that is meant to deter things an example may be a firewall
'You can walk through a Firewall' --Well Fire is not solid and zombies are. the name wall is just to describe the idea behind it. These are different skills and so will act differently sure it may be passable (see Red Rover) but that is not because it shares anything with the other skill beyond shape
'wall is not a shape' --It is standard practice in many RPG's to use the word Wall to describe a shape of segments that are orthogonally (not diagonally, also edge to edge) adjacent to one another forming a larger continuous unit.
'Look at the video' --This video does not clearly portray any event that would allow us to conclude anything more than that the wall does damage. All statements based on visual and AI of the monsters/skills is contingent on factors that we do not know related to the build of the game at that point.
'Width means X and Length means Y' --These two terms are ambiguous. They have proper definitions in different environments and we do not know the environment in which they have been defined with respect to the game's tooltip.
I think I hit everything there. Oh, and I happen to not agree with the OP.
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If that made sense to you, Bravo! I think I even confused myself...
wow. so surprising how many people commenting have no idea how H/W/D works and just post shit from random websites as their proof. lol. you'll get different opinions of it from different websites. back to high school kiddies :P.
the OP is intense and rediculous but ultimately is right (in THIS case of the ZW). will be funny when he comes back with a pic on release. but then everyone will call him pathetic for caring so much or something. lolz. cant win arguments over the internet, its impossible.
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"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
who cares what the name is? the name makes it exactly what it is ? ok so the monk skill "wave of light" is NOT a wave of light, its a giant bell that falls from the sky and he hits it. THAT totally makes sense right? this is just one of many examples. so therefor saying "the term wall" means ANYTHING is not even an argument for this.
although, look at it this way. the indigo rune is called "barricade". barricading something such as a door or window is to make it stronger or add layers to it so things do not get through, NOT longer. so therefor thicker. ergo WIDTH (shortest distance) of the zombie wall.
So the name does or does not have any influence on the mechanic of the ability? That is all I want to know.
Just replying to the OP, you seem to misjudge players skills when you mention that pet are the only way to go when you can't even tell what scale blizzard will use for pet nor how efficient it will be.
You can totally play solo inferno without pets, just for example, i played a sorc in D2 with 1300 armor and 973 health exactly with my own battle orders. I barely died once a month. It takes me only 2-3 hits to die.
Offense is clearly the best defense in Diablo 3
And their will be players to prove it when WDs will enter inferno difficulty.
Oh, and I wanted to say what kickin_it said the 31 october.Thank you for saving me time
All of this is guess work at best. We've only seen Act I in normal. So we have no idea how pets will fair in the higher difficulties. It's possible you could tailor your build to support pets beyond normal or you could tailor your WD to use no pets. Point is we don't know, and won't until the game is released.
facepalm yourself for somehow passing high school without the knowledge of what width is. you and the rest of the retards arguing. i shouldnt of replied considering only a complete tard would argue the meaning of width in the first place. like i said before a WALL is far different then a box. rectangle does not = box.
geometry 101:
Actually that's quite a simple generalization, as width and length can be interchangable. Just because length is commonly assigned to the dimension with the higher value, that doesn't mean that calling that value "width" is wrong. You don't even have to call the dimensions length and width. It is entirely possible (and this speculation is based on just as much merit as yours on this subject) that blizzard is looking at zombie wall as Width by Depth. Generally when counting objects in rows in 3 dimensions, you would count them as "x Wide by y Deep." And this is coming from someone who recently graduated university for Computer Science with a minor in Math.
You make a post saying you want to discuss something, and disregard everything that anyone else posts, saying that everything anyone else says is "pure speculation" while everything you say (which is based on skills and a difficulty that only internal testers have access to) is based on facts. You then begin calling anyone who disagrees with you a troll. The fact of the matter is that you have an idea in your head, believe you are right, and will not be dissuaded from it no matter what evidence you are shown. If you expected to have post after post of people telling you that you are undeniably right you are completely dillusional. The fact of the matter is, even if, using the current state of the game, it would be entirely impossible to solo in inferno without pets, that would be quickly rectified by blizzard, because that would be against their intents, which they have made VERY clear, time after time.
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Nerd: When you say it, you best say it with awe,
'Cause I'm the type of nerd that will bust your jaw.
Please do not reply without reading my full post and no flaming/trolling as well as fully explain your build / link.
So I've used the skill calc literally hundreds of times, making hundreds of builds for every single class, and from what i can tell the ONLY real viable end-game builds for the WD soloing 100% require pets, especially if you haven't super massed defense gear. honestly just because blizzard talks about all viable builds doesn't mean EVERY build possible for every class is viable in end game without 1-2 spells that are a must. although this "bla bla skill is a must for inferno" i have only found to be true for the WD. sure norm - hell(doubtful) you might be able to get away with no pets, but inferno? good luck, you'll be one shotted instantly and constantly fleeing rotating CC's while not doing much dmg, so yes the WD survivability in later difficulties is almost entirely based upon having AT LEAST 1 summon to help him kite around. IMO (unless you can somehow prove otherwise)
I agree for inferno you will likely need pets, especially when you first begin that mode. But whats the problem with that?
The idea that you'll be running around kiting doing little damage is absurd. The WD is the BEST kiting class in the game. You can make around 50% of your skills (just guessing it could be a bit higher) slow as well as do damage. And they are DoT's which means that while you are running away they are skill taking damage. You just have to be smart to play. The WD is the least favored of the classes so far, but will be the strongest class at end game if you take a master of the class verses a master of any other class it will always be the WD on top, especially when the fights are a bit longer like they will be in Inferno, at least starting out.
As to the whole zombie wall thing, I could have sworn there was already a video up of the skill and nothing walked through it at all, but I could be mistaken. Personally I see the merit of both sides, and since it all seems to be hinging on blizzards defintion of width in this case, it seems like we'll have to wait and see. Either way, it's still a great skill, and would be great for control.
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You cannot state as fact that no other build that does not use pets will not be viable in inferno difficulty, it may prove to be more difficult, but it will still be quite possible. I remember seeing the devs showing of a petless and melee WD in one of their panels at Blizzcon 2011 - Where it was stated that they were in inferno difficulty. If my memory doesn't serve me right, you point is still invalid to the fact that you have not played the game and therefor, have no understanding of how alternate builds will turn out to be in inferno difficulty.
You say this yet, every single reply I have seen that you have made, you have abused someone when they have been trying to refute your argument. I would classify those responses as trolling and flaming.
Also I don't need to read your entire post nor prove a build of my own to refute your opinion, as you have no primary source, nor a complete secondary source to prove your own argument.
Wow.... Since when does walking THROUGH a wall make sense?
I guess I've just been doing it wrong all my life.
Why? It's entertaining.
Plus, we need to be able to bump it after release! Epeens are at stake!
I look at this thread and think "If we could all get into a room with a whiteboard we would all agree that we have speculated too far and must begin placing bets on who is right instead of degrading the valid speculation of others"
Also, the walk through walls, and the length/width and the other things in a similar vein generally have weak arguments behind them. And I would like to explore why if folks would be interested.
'It's a wall, you can't walk through a wall' --I loved the game Red Rover It is all about running through a wall of your friends. It was tough, but you could do it. Wall is not necessarily a structure or a solid obstacle it can be the idea of a line that is meant to deter things an example may be a firewall
'You can walk through a Firewall' --Well Fire is not solid and zombies are. the name wall is just to describe the idea behind it. These are different skills and so will act differently sure it may be passable (see Red Rover) but that is not because it shares anything with the other skill beyond shape
'wall is not a shape' --It is standard practice in many RPG's to use the word Wall to describe a shape of segments that are orthogonally (not diagonally, also edge to edge) adjacent to one another forming a larger continuous unit.
'Look at the video' --This video does not clearly portray any event that would allow us to conclude anything more than that the wall does damage. All statements based on visual and AI of the monsters/skills is contingent on factors that we do not know related to the build of the game at that point.
'Width means X and Length means Y' --These two terms are ambiguous. They have proper definitions in different environments and we do not know the environment in which they have been defined with respect to the game's tooltip.
I think I hit everything there. Oh, and I happen to not agree with the OP.
All that really matters.
(In seriousness though, nice post.)
He deson't really need that.
the OP is intense and rediculous but ultimately is right (in THIS case of the ZW). will be funny when he comes back with a pic on release. but then everyone will call him pathetic for caring so much or something. lolz. cant win arguments over the internet, its impossible.
So the name does or does not have any influence on the mechanic of the ability? That is all I want to know.
So let's argue about speculation until release?
You can totally play solo inferno without pets, just for example, i played a sorc in D2 with 1300 armor and 973 health exactly with my own battle orders. I barely died once a month. It takes me only 2-3 hits to die.
Offense is clearly the best defense in Diablo 3
And their will be players to prove it when WDs will enter inferno difficulty.
Oh, and I wanted to say what kickin_it said the 31 october.Thank you for saving me time
if they come out with a zwall skill rune video then it could be before release. should request it. who's actually making those videos? sixen?
Actually that's quite a simple generalization, as width and length can be interchangable. Just because length is commonly assigned to the dimension with the higher value, that doesn't mean that calling that value "width" is wrong. You don't even have to call the dimensions length and width. It is entirely possible (and this speculation is based on just as much merit as yours on this subject) that blizzard is looking at zombie wall as Width by Depth. Generally when counting objects in rows in 3 dimensions, you would count them as "x Wide by y Deep." And this is coming from someone who recently graduated university for Computer Science with a minor in Math.
You make a post saying you want to discuss something, and disregard everything that anyone else posts, saying that everything anyone else says is "pure speculation" while everything you say (which is based on skills and a difficulty that only internal testers have access to) is based on facts. You then begin calling anyone who disagrees with you a troll. The fact of the matter is that you have an idea in your head, believe you are right, and will not be dissuaded from it no matter what evidence you are shown. If you expected to have post after post of people telling you that you are undeniably right you are completely dillusional. The fact of the matter is, even if, using the current state of the game, it would be entirely impossible to solo in inferno without pets, that would be quickly rectified by blizzard, because that would be against their intents, which they have made VERY clear, time after time.
'Cause I'm the type of nerd that will bust your jaw.
I agree for inferno you will likely need pets, especially when you first begin that mode. But whats the problem with that?
Yah you can spawn 3 pets that way, could even use jungle fortitude as well.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
As to the whole zombie wall thing, I could have sworn there was already a video up of the skill and nothing walked through it at all, but I could be mistaken. Personally I see the merit of both sides, and since it all seems to be hinging on blizzards defintion of width in this case, it seems like we'll have to wait and see. Either way, it's still a great skill, and would be great for control.
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the aspects of the game you want to know about? Check us out!