I feel Diablo 3 is aimed more at PvM currently rather than PvP (not because PvP isnt being launched on release) and feel it will show a similar following like D2. On release of D2 PvP was almost nonexistent at the start as everyone was trying to level up and magic find items to try out different characters and builds. But once item's and runes began to circulate, D2 quickly moved to trading/character builds. After that the PvP community emerged in a storm, as almost an endless amount of builds were quickly tried and tested. There was a huge PvP community in D2 with each ladder season in its height of popularity. Granted there were still lots of people who played it only for PvM.
But alas, sadly Diablo 3 in my own opinion will revolve around PvP. PvM will be balanced around PvP. I hope to God I am wrong but I feel it will be just like WoW.
1. Class A becomes OP in PvP
2. People rage on forums because their class isnt FOTM
3. Everyone Rerolls to FOTM
4. Blizz finally puts a patch/hotfix out to address the skill/class
5. PvP FOTM class QQ about nerf in PvP
6. PvM'ers QQ about nerf to PvM
Its a vicious cycle. I mean hell for those of you who played WoW know. A perfect example of above was the most recent cata, Blood Death Knights with Vengeance stacking and Death strike. I knew how to kite/take off vengeance stacks to kill them easy, but a majority of "casuals" who didnt know would just complain on forums. Rogue mace stuns, Druid Shapeshifts, Warrior charges, Mortal Strike PreWrath, SL-SL Lock, Death strike, Frost Mages, the list goes on and on. This argument doesnt only apply to D3 it will always apply to any game that has a PVP/PVM component as long as the game creaters are updating there will always be changes to skills/mechanics to balance things out. Blizzard will always listen to the fans (although many will argue it doesnt seem like it). If there is enough public outcry for something, Blizzard will more than likely change/fix it to keep their fanbase happy otherwise it would be a marketing disaster for the franchise or any other future game franchises.
Again these are all my own opinion.
...I don't understand where people keep getting this notion from. Code skills to react differently in PvP and PvM...not that hard.
...I don't understand where people keep getting this notion from. Code skills to react differently in PvP and PvM...not that hard.
Except for the fact that if creates frustration with the casual players that end up having their skills work differently in PvP and PvM. Since the game is targeted at the casual market, it seems like doing as you suggest would be a bad idea. Perhaps you should think more about how others will react and not just what you want.
...I don't understand where people keep getting this notion from. Code skills to react differently in PvP and PvM...not that hard.
Except for the fact that if creates frustration with the casual players that end up having their skills work differently in PvP and PvM. Since the game is targeted at the casual market, it seems like doing as you suggest would be a bad idea. Perhaps you should think more about how others will react and not just what you want.
Are you kidding me? This is the same crap Jay WIlson said that we won't balance PvP and PvE separately because it would be "confusing to the players". Stop treating us like we are a bunch of idiots. Would you be confused if a certain skill did less damage to a person than it did a monster? No, you would adapt and still have fun. I am starting to think you PvE'ers would follow Jay Wilson off a bridge if he jumped. I know for a fact that if he wasn't so anti-PvP then neither would the community.
Are you kidding me? This is the same crap Jay WIlson said that we won't balance PvP and PvE separately because it would be "confusing to the players". Stop treating us like we are a bunch of idiots. Would you be confused if a certain skill did less damage to a person than it did a monster? No, you would adapt and still have fun. I am starting to think you PvE'ers would follow Jay Wilson off a bridge if he jumped. I know for a fact that if he wasn't so anti-PvP then neither would the community.
Just putting in my two cents, PvP and PvE can't be balanced look at WoW. It's been over 6 years and it's never been balanced. It has nothing to do with people being stupid, it can't be done or Blizzard is unable to do it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
...I don't understand where people keep getting this notion from. Code skills to react differently in PvP and PvM...not that hard.
People get this notion because of blizzards track record in terms of balance. D2 they slowly nerfed/buffed skills/spells over patches because of either they felt it was over/under powerered in both pvp and pvm, or the spell was glitchy. D2 is not a good example of PvP/PvM balance but it was an early start for them. The main example to use is WoW as I stated earlier in my post.
And for them to just "recode" the skills because its "not that hard" would mean either a delay in release which they will not do because of that, or as ecutruin said players would be frustrated and annoyed that one aspect of the game has different spells/skills than the other. I dont ever see blizzard doing that as its apparent from Blizzard they cater to the masses not just one part of their gaming community. Look at WoW, casual/semi hardcore guilds couldnt complete endgame raids post BC so they added buffs to the raids to allow for them to be able to experience it. They didnt listen to the small % of hardcore raiders saying to keep the difficulty where it was because they felt what they accomplished should only be accomplished by the elite. They listened to the majority of their player base which is casual players who wanted to be able to experience endgame content.
Also if it were that easy to just "recode" spells on the fly that would have solved most of the problems in WoW PvP/PvM balance, but again you would have both sides of the communities arguing why they cant have the spell/skill effect the other side has. Seeing that 8 years after WoW was released they never completely redid 1 skill/spell to have a pvp use/pvm use. Most of the balancing was done through talents that were PvP specific or had a minor PvM role for a certain encounter. Some might argue for example, something like frost lance/deepfreeze change, but that also did not even happen till wrath. And even so those types are spells/skills are so rare they are essentially the same thing. Also there is a reason why there is diminishing returns on spells/skills so blizzard doesnt have to "code" spells/skills individually rather then grouping certain ones as a fear/horror/stun/snare...
Again these are all my own opinions and Ill say it again PvM will be balanced around PvP based off of blizzards previous actions. Also I use WoW as a main example as that is their longest lasting continually successful franchise they have at the moment and they put a lot of work into keeping the players happy.
...I don't understand where people keep getting this notion from. Code skills to react differently in PvP and PvM...not that hard.
People get this notion because of blizzards track record in terms of balance. D2 they slowly nerfed/buffed skills/spells over patches because of either they felt it was over/under powerered in both pvp and pvm, or the spell was glitchy. D2 is not a good example of PvP/PvM balance but it was an early start for them. The main example to use is WoW as I stated earlier in my post.
And for them to just "recode" the skills because its "not that hard" would mean either a delay in release which they will not do because of that, or as ecutruin said players would be frustrated and annoyed that one aspect of the game has different spells/skills than the other. I dont ever see blizzard doing that as its apparent from Blizzard they cater to the masses not just one part of their gaming community. Look at WoW, casual/semi hardcore guilds couldnt complete endgame raids post BC so they added buffs to the raids to allow for them to be able to experience it. They didnt listen to the small % of hardcore raiders saying to keep the difficulty where it was because they felt what they accomplished should only be accomplished by the elite. They listened to the majority of their player base which is casual players who wanted to be able to experience endgame content.
Also if it were that easy to just "recode" spells on the fly that would have solved most of the problems in WoW PvP/PvM balance, but again you would have both sides of the communities arguing why they cant have the spell/skill effect the other side has. Seeing that 8 years after WoW was released they never completely redid 1 skill/spell to have a pvp use/pvm use. Most of the balancing was done through talents that were PvP specific or had a minor PvM role for a certain encounter. Some might argue for example, something like frost lance/deepfreeze change, but that also did not even happen till wrath. And even so those types are spells/skills are so rare they are essentially the same thing. Also there is a reason why there is diminishing returns on spells/skills so blizzard doesnt have to "code" spells/skills individually rather then grouping certain ones as a fear/horror/stun/snare...
Again these are all my own opinions and Ill say it again PvM will be balanced around PvP based off of blizzards previous actions. Also I use WoW as a main example as that is their longest lasting continually successful franchise they have at the moment and they put a lot of work into keeping the players happy.
Has no one here ever heard of Guild Wars haha?
If you are so confused that your skill reacts differently in PvP compared to PvM then you arn't going to be going anywhere in PvP anyway. You will remain a bottom tier casual player who means very little in the long run. Your value to the community is nothing more then a training dummy. You get your giggles out of the mechanic for the 1-2x you use it and you disappear.
How dare they actually give us a mechanic and feature that allows us to learn how to play the game!
All of you people saying it can't exist are blind. Stop bringing up WoW because obviously Blizzard was to retarded to code that correctly also. Again look at GW...not a hard thing to do. I can google the shit for you if you want.
Also a delay in release? Really that is your excuse? They already pushed PvP back to practically never coming out. What further delay in release would really matter? At the rate Blizzard works, ill be level 60 fully farmed gear and quit the game ~3 months before they even come close to releasing PvP.
This thread will be updated, just post and I will add VALID arguments to the tables, yes this is biased, yes this is the PvP discussion. This will be used to strengthen the PvP argument.
Plaintiff - PvP'ers Demands
Customizable Arena options for private matches - Game types (FFA, Teams, 2 v 3, ect) - Changing the time limit - custom respawn times (instant, XX seconds, none) - other options I can't think of right now.
World PvP option (D2 Style) - Allow world PvP as a game option during creation.
This seems okay if for some reason people want to join PvP only games. Where would they duel? Who cares, as long as they don't show up into a PvM game, making the monsters stronger, and run around trying to PK people.
Balance - Not many are expecting this, actually nobody is except the PvMers useing it as a counter aurgument. - And no you don't need to be inside of an arena for skills to be balanced, even in D2 they had ways of balancing skills on players.
If you even dare to dream that D2 PvP was balanced, you might want your brain checked.
There will be elitism whether PvP is a prominent feature of the game or not. People will always try to measure themselves against other people, and they will use any means at their disposal to do so. As soon as a method of measurement is agreed upon, it becomes the standard, and people above that standard will begin to gloat. It's inevitable.
Are you kidding me? This is the same crap Jay WIlson said that we won't balance PvP and PvE separately because it would be "confusing to the players". Stop treating us like we are a bunch of idiots. Would you be confused if a certain skill did less damage to a person than it did a monster? No, you would adapt and still have fun. I am starting to think you PvE'ers would follow Jay Wilson off a bridge if he jumped. I know for a fact that if he wasn't so anti-PvP then neither would the community.
I am not anti-PvP. If you've actually paid attention to what I've been saying, you'd realize that. What I am against is people trying to shove a style of PvP into a game not designed for it. I am looking forward to Arena. I'm looking forwards to being able to randomly hop in and fight players for fun.
Unlike the few complaining PvP players here though, I actually understand WHY Blizzard made the decisions they made. The target market they are shooting for is a more casual market. That market doesn't WANT to learn how abilities work differently in PvP vs PvM. They want to be able to take a break from their PvM, jump into PvP, and just have fun. You guys act like Jay made his decision without actually knowing his community. You're completely wrong. The MAJORITY want the game the way it has become for the most part. Its only a minority of competitive PvP players too lost in their Diablo 2 gameplay days that end up not wanting Arena for PvP.
Are you kidding me? This is the same crap Jay WIlson said that we won't balance PvP and PvE separately because it would be "confusing to the players". Stop treating us like we are a bunch of idiots. Would you be confused if a certain skill did less damage to a person than it did a monster? No, you would adapt and still have fun. I am starting to think you PvE'ers would follow Jay Wilson off a bridge if he jumped. I know for a fact that if he wasn't so anti-PvP then neither would the community.
I am not anti-PvP. If you've actually paid attention to what I've been saying, you'd realize that. What I am against is people trying to shove a style of PvP into a game not designed for it. I am looking forward to Arena. I'm looking forwards to being able to randomly hop in and fight players for fun.
Unlike the few complaining PvP players here though, I actually understand WHY Blizzard made the decisions they made. The target market they are shooting for is a more casual market. That market doesn't WANT to learn how abilities work differently in PvP vs PvM. They want to be able to take a break from their PvM, jump into PvP, and just have fun. You guys act like Jay made his decision without actually knowing his community. You're completely wrong. The MAJORITY want the game the way it has become for the most part. Its only a minority of competitive PvP players too lost in their Diablo 2 gameplay days that end up not wanting Arena for PvP.
Can't wait till they introduce auto aim. When I wanna play I don't wanna have to deal with aiming my attacks. I just wanna play. Oh wait..am I doing this right?
Can't wait till they introduce auto aim. When I wanna play I don't wanna have to deal with aiming my attacks. I just wanna play.
Nope think auto aim would be a waste of time. I can't believe you would actually suggest that Adon.
Haha, I am being highly sarcastic here.
He is talking about how the game is made for the casual player and that the casual player doesn't want to read or think or learn...so why not offer auto aim in the game. I mean shit, why not start at level 60 with top gear and have an instant win button.
Has no one here ever heard of Guild Wars haha?
If you are so confused that your skill reacts differently in PvP compared to PvM then you arn't going to be going anywhere in PvP anyway. You will remain a bottom tier casual player who means very little in the long run. Your value to the community is nothing more then a training dummy. You get your giggles out of the mechanic for the 1-2x you use it and you disappear.
How dare they actually give us a mechanic and feature that allows us to learn how to play the game!
All of you people saying it can't exist are blind. Stop bringing up WoW because obviously Blizzard was to retarded to code that correctly also. Again look at GW...not a hard thing to do. I can google the shit for you if you want.
Also a delay in release? Really that is your excuse? They already pushed PvP back to practically never coming out. What further delay in release would really matter? At the rate Blizzard works, ill be level 60 fully farmed gear and quit the game ~3 months before they even come close to releasing PvP.
I am not arguing the level of competency of being able to differentiate 2 skills/spells that are the same but react differently in PvP/Pvm, most people who play should know if they read tooltips. But the matter is they are catering to the masses again not to a specific niche in their community. Ranging from kids to adults. And yes I will agree with you if a casual person doesnt understand the difference between a spell/skill working in a PvM setting vs PvP setting then they should probably not play the game. But that factor alone will not force casuals to quite playing the game. They will continue to play the game even if they are oblivious to the mechanics of things. They will play it because they enjoy it.
Again if you read my post you would see why I use WoW as a reference for examples, as again it is their longest most continued successful game to date. I also doubt Blizzard is not "too retarded to code that correctly" as they created a multi billion dollar game. Sure Guild Wars had many blizz employees goto their dev team to help create GW. Guild Wars was and still is a popular game but is no where as successful as WoW is. So I will continue to use WoW as a prime example.
I never said creating a skill/spell to react differently in PvP and PvM cant be done, it can. It will take time and resources to do that and again it would just be more of an inconvenience and blizzard will always balance things around the majority of their customers...casual players.
I played a lot of PvP in D2 and played arena's in WoW since S1. I love PvP and I am hoping they make PvP fun. But again the point of all my posts is PvM will be balanced around PvP.
I don't get why those who prefer PvM are so anti-PvP. I can understand it in a game like WoW, where PvP balance changes can greatly affect PvE, but Blizzard have stated multiple times that this will never be the case for D3. For me, Diablo is one of the very few games where I enjoy the PvE, but I'm looking forward to the PvP equally, so I really hope they won't take too long before patching it in.
Disagreeing with suggestion, etc. on this forum doesn't make one anti-pvp. It means they don't agree with what someone has suggested. It's like someone not liking the president's policies being labeled a racist. It is a leap from logic to justify one's position. Multiple posters that are primarily PvMers have stated looking forward to PvP yet this is quickly forgotten somehow as they disagree with a suggestion made by someone identifying themselves as a PvPer.
While Blizzard has stated their stance very clearly on not repeating the mistakes of the past by sacrificing core design for side features many have posted ideas or suggestions that could do just that. Therefore players interested in the core game get this uncanny sense of deja vu. Thus they respond and post their reasoning. They don't hate PvP they just don't wish to see PvM suffering for it.
I don't get why those who prefer PvM are so anti-PvP. I can understand it in a game like WoW, where PvP balance changes can greatly affect PvE, but Blizzard have stated multiple times that this will never be the case for D3. For me, Diablo is one of the very few games where I enjoy the PvE, but I'm looking forward to the PvP equally, so I really hope they won't take too long before patching it in.
Disagreeing with suggestion, etc. on this forum doesn't make one anti-pvp. It means they don't agree with what someone has suggested. It's like someone not liking the president's policies being labeled a racist. It is a leap from logic to justify one's position. Multiple posters that are primarily PvMers have stated looking forward to PvP yet this is quickly forgotten somehow as they disagree with a suggestion made by someone identifying themselves as a PvPer.
While Blizzard has stated their stance very clearly on not repeating the mistakes of the past by sacrificing core design for side features many have posted ideas or suggestions that could do just that. Therefore players interested in the core game get this uncanny sense of deja vu. Thus they respond and post their reasoning. They don't hate PvP they just don't wish to see PvM suffering for it.
Except 9/10 suggestions have no effect on PvM at all.
All we can do is voice our opinion and our wants. All we can also do is base those on how Blizzard has performed in the past. They have neglected and abused the Diablo series in the past and have offered little to no support for PvM content. You cannot sit there and blindly believe or trust that they will add "monthly" PvM content, so crying about resources being used is a flawed argument to start with.
9/10 suggestions are ones that allow us to get the control we had in Diablo 2 for Diablo 3. We don't need hostility, if we had private arenas that could be customizable we can take it from there. We don't need Blizzard to balance anything ,we will do our jobs like we always have and we will lay the ground work out for what is considered correct play and what is considered illegal. This is nothing new and I am kinda shocked at the ignorance on the whole subject with this forum.
There are little to no real PvP'ers here, the topics are mostly for people who are dedicated PvP'ers. Nothing but casual PvP'ers flood the topics and spam it up with "ESPORTS R BAD" and other ignorant claims and do nothing but spam Blizzards views and opinions. They arn't counter arguing, they are blindly spamming ignorance on a topic they know so little about.
Except 9/10 suggestions have no effect on PvM at all.
Just a quick question - how do you know? Because all PvPers just seem to work on an assumption that diablo is coded the way they want it to be and thus allowing a lot of PvP friendly changes. Yep, they said that they are able to balance skills separately for PvP and PvM, however none of us knows to what extent even this is true.
So basically you are just repeating your mantra all the time "It won't affect PvM community, as it is this easy to code:" and make a list of features you "need/want". Well, welcome to the real world, unless you have participated in the development of Diablo, you don't know if your proposed changes will have impact on PvM (for example even 6 months of no new PvM content because of creating some new noncasual PvP stuff IS an impact of PvM)
But to summarize my opinion on PvP - I really don't care if you get your toys to play with, casual PvP is enough for me. However I don't say I will vote agains it, the only thing I don't want to happen, that PvM will suffer in any way because of your new noncasual PvP toys..
So how does anything we suggest hurt PvM?
The resources? They have a small army working on D3, they also have limitations yes but are you honestly saying that implementing a private customizable arena system where you can change 3v3 to 1+v1+ is out of their realm? You honestly think that is going to stop them from bringing you the PvM content?
Im curious buddy, tell me all about it, what did we suggest that just apparently totally shits on your parade?
So how does anything we suggest hurt PvM?
The resources? They have a small army working on D3, they also have limitations yes but are you honestly saying that implementing a private customizable arena system where you can change 3v3 to 1+v1+ is out of their realm? You honestly think that is going to stop them from bringing you the PvM content?
Im curious buddy, tell me all about it, what did we suggest that just apparently totally shits on your parade?
Its not out of their realm. Then again, it wouldn't be out of their realm to suddenly make the entire game an FPS either. The reality of the situation is that it isn't non~trivial. Since you obviously have not done development and even more~so, development in a bigger company...you really have no idea of the timescale that even small alterations to design actually take. In a top game company like Blizzard, making small changes requires confirmation with multiple teams, quality checking, etc. It can take time for even changes like you ask for to actually be implemented. So yes, it does cost resources that are noticeable.
Except for the fact that if creates frustration with the casual players that end up having their skills work differently in PvP and PvM. Since the game is targeted at the casual market, it seems like doing as you suggest would be a bad idea. Perhaps you should think more about how others will react and not just what you want.
Are you kidding me? This is the same crap Jay WIlson said that we won't balance PvP and PvE separately because it would be "confusing to the players". Stop treating us like we are a bunch of idiots. Would you be confused if a certain skill did less damage to a person than it did a monster? No, you would adapt and still have fun. I am starting to think you PvE'ers would follow Jay Wilson off a bridge if he jumped. I know for a fact that if he wasn't so anti-PvP then neither would the community.
Just putting in my two cents, PvP and PvE can't be balanced look at WoW. It's been over 6 years and it's never been balanced. It has nothing to do with people being stupid, it can't be done or Blizzard is unable to do it.
People get this notion because of blizzards track record in terms of balance. D2 they slowly nerfed/buffed skills/spells over patches because of either they felt it was over/under powerered in both pvp and pvm, or the spell was glitchy. D2 is not a good example of PvP/PvM balance but it was an early start for them. The main example to use is WoW as I stated earlier in my post.
And for them to just "recode" the skills because its "not that hard" would mean either a delay in release which they will not do because of that, or as ecutruin said players would be frustrated and annoyed that one aspect of the game has different spells/skills than the other. I dont ever see blizzard doing that as its apparent from Blizzard they cater to the masses not just one part of their gaming community. Look at WoW, casual/semi hardcore guilds couldnt complete endgame raids post BC so they added buffs to the raids to allow for them to be able to experience it. They didnt listen to the small % of hardcore raiders saying to keep the difficulty where it was because they felt what they accomplished should only be accomplished by the elite. They listened to the majority of their player base which is casual players who wanted to be able to experience endgame content.
Also if it were that easy to just "recode" spells on the fly that would have solved most of the problems in WoW PvP/PvM balance, but again you would have both sides of the communities arguing why they cant have the spell/skill effect the other side has. Seeing that 8 years after WoW was released they never completely redid 1 skill/spell to have a pvp use/pvm use. Most of the balancing was done through talents that were PvP specific or had a minor PvM role for a certain encounter. Some might argue for example, something like frost lance/deepfreeze change, but that also did not even happen till wrath. And even so those types are spells/skills are so rare they are essentially the same thing. Also there is a reason why there is diminishing returns on spells/skills so blizzard doesnt have to "code" spells/skills individually rather then grouping certain ones as a fear/horror/stun/snare...
Again these are all my own opinions and Ill say it again PvM will be balanced around PvP based off of blizzards previous actions. Also I use WoW as a main example as that is their longest lasting continually successful franchise they have at the moment and they put a lot of work into keeping the players happy.
If you are so confused that your skill reacts differently in PvP compared to PvM then you arn't going to be going anywhere in PvP anyway. You will remain a bottom tier casual player who means very little in the long run. Your value to the community is nothing more then a training dummy. You get your giggles out of the mechanic for the 1-2x you use it and you disappear.
How dare they actually give us a mechanic and feature that allows us to learn how to play the game!
All of you people saying it can't exist are blind. Stop bringing up WoW because obviously Blizzard was to retarded to code that correctly also. Again look at GW...not a hard thing to do. I can google the shit for you if you want.
Also a delay in release? Really that is your excuse? They already pushed PvP back to practically never coming out. What further delay in release would really matter? At the rate Blizzard works, ill be level 60 fully farmed gear and quit the game ~3 months before they even come close to releasing PvP.
Sounds good.
This seems okay if for some reason people want to join PvP only games. Where would they duel? Who cares, as long as they don't show up into a PvM game, making the monsters stronger, and run around trying to PK people.
I don't understand. Wouldn't you just form a party and queue with those people anyway?
Sure.
Far as I know, there is no clan support for D3. It would be cool though.
If you lose, I get your ear... no, not your pixel ear. You must postal mail me your real life ear.
If you even dare to dream that D2 PvP was balanced, you might want your brain checked.
Nope. Ranks and ladders don't mean anything in PvM, especially with the level cap at 60.
I honestly don't care if it's an esport or not. If PvP does not ruin the PvM portion of the game in any way, then I honestly could care less about it.
There will be elitism whether PvP is a prominent feature of the game or not. People will always try to measure themselves against other people, and they will use any means at their disposal to do so. As soon as a method of measurement is agreed upon, it becomes the standard, and people above that standard will begin to gloat. It's inevitable.
I am not anti-PvP. If you've actually paid attention to what I've been saying, you'd realize that. What I am against is people trying to shove a style of PvP into a game not designed for it. I am looking forward to Arena. I'm looking forwards to being able to randomly hop in and fight players for fun.
Unlike the few complaining PvP players here though, I actually understand WHY Blizzard made the decisions they made. The target market they are shooting for is a more casual market. That market doesn't WANT to learn how abilities work differently in PvP vs PvM. They want to be able to take a break from their PvM, jump into PvP, and just have fun. You guys act like Jay made his decision without actually knowing his community. You're completely wrong. The MAJORITY want the game the way it has become for the most part. Its only a minority of competitive PvP players too lost in their Diablo 2 gameplay days that end up not wanting Arena for PvP.
Nope think auto aim would be a waste of time. I can't believe you would actually suggest that Adon.
He is talking about how the game is made for the casual player and that the casual player doesn't want to read or think or learn...so why not offer auto aim in the game. I mean shit, why not start at level 60 with top gear and have an instant win button.
I am not arguing the level of competency of being able to differentiate 2 skills/spells that are the same but react differently in PvP/Pvm, most people who play should know if they read tooltips. But the matter is they are catering to the masses again not to a specific niche in their community. Ranging from kids to adults. And yes I will agree with you if a casual person doesnt understand the difference between a spell/skill working in a PvM setting vs PvP setting then they should probably not play the game. But that factor alone will not force casuals to quite playing the game. They will continue to play the game even if they are oblivious to the mechanics of things. They will play it because they enjoy it.
Again if you read my post you would see why I use WoW as a reference for examples, as again it is their longest most continued successful game to date. I also doubt Blizzard is not "too retarded to code that correctly" as they created a multi billion dollar game. Sure Guild Wars had many blizz employees goto their dev team to help create GW. Guild Wars was and still is a popular game but is no where as successful as WoW is. So I will continue to use WoW as a prime example.
I never said creating a skill/spell to react differently in PvP and PvM cant be done, it can. It will take time and resources to do that and again it would just be more of an inconvenience and blizzard will always balance things around the majority of their customers...casual players.
I played a lot of PvP in D2 and played arena's in WoW since S1. I love PvP and I am hoping they make PvP fun. But again the point of all my posts is PvM will be balanced around PvP.
While Blizzard has stated their stance very clearly on not repeating the mistakes of the past by sacrificing core design for side features many have posted ideas or suggestions that could do just that. Therefore players interested in the core game get this uncanny sense of deja vu. Thus they respond and post their reasoning. They don't hate PvP they just don't wish to see PvM suffering for it.
All we can do is voice our opinion and our wants. All we can also do is base those on how Blizzard has performed in the past. They have neglected and abused the Diablo series in the past and have offered little to no support for PvM content. You cannot sit there and blindly believe or trust that they will add "monthly" PvM content, so crying about resources being used is a flawed argument to start with.
9/10 suggestions are ones that allow us to get the control we had in Diablo 2 for Diablo 3. We don't need hostility, if we had private arenas that could be customizable we can take it from there. We don't need Blizzard to balance anything ,we will do our jobs like we always have and we will lay the ground work out for what is considered correct play and what is considered illegal. This is nothing new and I am kinda shocked at the ignorance on the whole subject with this forum.
There are little to no real PvP'ers here, the topics are mostly for people who are dedicated PvP'ers. Nothing but casual PvP'ers flood the topics and spam it up with "ESPORTS R BAD" and other ignorant claims and do nothing but spam Blizzards views and opinions. They arn't counter arguing, they are blindly spamming ignorance on a topic they know so little about.
The resources? They have a small army working on D3, they also have limitations yes but are you honestly saying that implementing a private customizable arena system where you can change 3v3 to 1+v1+ is out of their realm? You honestly think that is going to stop them from bringing you the PvM content?
Im curious buddy, tell me all about it, what did we suggest that just apparently totally shits on your parade?
Its not out of their realm. Then again, it wouldn't be out of their realm to suddenly make the entire game an FPS either. The reality of the situation is that it isn't non~trivial. Since you obviously have not done development and even more~so, development in a bigger company...you really have no idea of the timescale that even small alterations to design actually take. In a top game company like Blizzard, making small changes requires confirmation with multiple teams, quality checking, etc. It can take time for even changes like you ask for to actually be implemented. So yes, it does cost resources that are noticeable.