The D3 community has yelled at Blizzard since the summer of 2012. This infographic was released in August 2012 - http://i.imgur.com/zkPUu.jpg.
I'm really so sick of these stupid nonsense comparisons.
Every day there are "help me gear up" threads on the class forums and it's quite common for people to have multiple items without main stat. Even higher geared people sometimes don't have a main stat on jewelry, weapons, pants, gloves, ... for many reasons. Look at the top people @Diabloprogress and their pants. Or some people's belts. Or weapons. And lower geared people couldn't care less about main stat on gloves or jewelry - unless you get a lucky drop you can't really afford it anyways.
Yes, itemization needs to be fixed. No, these screenshots do not help, nor explain the problem, nor depict the itemization problem as a whole. And many of them are straight out wrong. Said helm you linked in the pic would've never been worn by any of my characters... no FHR, no FCR, no +skills... go away.
They really built the game around the idea a large majority of players wouldn't progress past normal and would have had enough to do by then and move on to other games (hopefully theirs) and then infrequently dabble in Diablo 3. It was an IP they brought in from Blizzard North and while they were proud of it, they treated it as if it was nowhere near as popular as Starcraft and Warcraft. The massive server crashing at launch proved they grossly underestimated the fan base for the Diablo series.
The philosophy of "Look, not everyone who buys these games is a long term player and we don't want them to be overwhelmed with complex choices and depth" makes no sense to me.
If it's implied that the VERY casual gamers (those who buy the game and only progress through normal) will already be buying the game, why not have made the game for those of us who were in it for the long term?
That's an issue I have with this whole mess. I really think they expected the game to be less successful than their other franchises and they way they approached and executed so much of this game speaks to that.
Sorry if this has been posted already. Couldn't find anything about it. And thanks for telling me about it Mth
Well I called that. I had a feeling it wouldn't be this year. The game is really stagnant, hell I'd be happy if they just opened up world PVP and increased the player caps in the games. That would at least give people something to do for awhile. This game cannot survive without a better form of PVP and the arena format simply doesn't cut it.
The itemization patch really won't solve many problems, in fact it will probably create more. They should have never made items focus on a main stat in the first place. They should have allowed you to build the character around the gear, not the gear around the character. If they don't make the itemization patch have any real ground breaking changes outside of now you can find legendaries which scale based on the item level (which is good). They need to really change how main stats are used with characters to make gear more appealing.
I've decided to just take a break from the game for awhile as I've done in the past to play a few other games and I imagine I'll be back slaying demons like I always am in a few months.
I really want them to succeed at making this game worth while again, but I feel like their just taking too long to address some of the bigger core issues in the game.
That is the worst comparison I've ever seen. Hell you could have used a shako and even then that wouldn't be 100% correct. Yes gear could be appealing to 99% of classes and builds, but not all the time nor for every build. I'd say d2 allowed you to have more freedom because you could build your character around gear and not be pidgin holed into having to go for a main stat every time. A better example for an item people could always use would be crown of ages. (yes not all builds but a lot of pvp builds it was used).
Ultimately if the itemization patch wants to be successful, it needs address primary stats..however I doubt that will be possible as that involves changing much more than just the items you find.
The D3 community has yelled at Blizzard since the summer of 2012. This infographic was released in August 2012 - http://i.imgur.com/zkPUu.jpg.
I'm really so sick of these stupid nonsense comparisons.
Every day there are "help me gear up" threads on the class forums and it's quite common for people to have multiple items without main stat. Even higher geared people sometimes don't have a main stat on jewelry, weapons, pants, gloves, ... for many reasons. Look at the top people @Diabloprogress and their pants. Or some people's belts. Or weapons. And lower geared people couldn't care less about main stat on gloves or jewelry - unless you get a lucky drop you can't really afford it anyways.
Yes, itemization needs to be fixed. No, these screenshots do not help, nor explain the problem, nor depict the itemization problem as a whole. And many of them are straight out wrong. Said helm you linked in the pic would've never been worn by any of my characters... no FHR, no FCR, no +skills... go away.
Lol sorry if I hurt your feelings. Way to focus on one thing and fail to grasp the point - that itemization had known issues since nearly a year ago, and now we're told it'll be 1.5+ years from then before this grand fail in design is (hopefully) corrected.
Oh, and the reason why pants often don't have main stat is because all classes wear Inna's. Lol. If your diabloprogress heroes have other gear that lack main stat it's probably because they rolled trifecta. Dammit that infographic didn't neatly encapsulate this fail aspect of itemization either!
But this is exactly what I've been saying @pants. Many current examples like Inna's, WH, trifecta and so on invalidate that picture. And if the statement in the picture is invalid, your argument becomes nil. No one disagrees that itemization is a problem way overdue; but by posting these pictures it doesn't help the case at all.
Maybe they're really going nuts on revamping items behind the scenes. We don't know what's being done. Maybe they don't want to put out spoilers (though any dataminers can do that for us). Maybe a lot of coding's going on the back over there.
Maybe future Triumvirates will have 10% chance to stun on hit (lightning), 10% chance to inflict X% weapon damage burn on hit (fire), 10% chance to freeze on hit (replace arcane with cold).
Maybe future Butcher's Sickles will no longer have a "chance" to pull an enemy in, but have a new active skill slot that allows you to pull enemies in at will (with reasonable cooldown).
For that matter, maybe all future items that have special proc abilities can be manually cast instead. That'll take a TON of time to develop as it requires changing the combat UI, etc.
We don't know anything. That's the bottom line. We don't know Blizzard's process and what's on their table.
We don't know anything. That's the bottom line. We don't know Blizzard's process and what's on their table.
No, everyone knows exactly what's happening at Blizzard here.
Just look at the guy above you. Blizzard knew "January 1, 1012."
That attitude says it all and it's exactly why EVERY announcment is met with pitchforks and torches. Because that's the simple, backwoods, mentality that the Diablo community has. When something doesn't go the way someone wants it to go they are immediately an insider and know how "simple" it is to make changes and that it should have been done on such-and-such a timeline.
Hell, we have two people in this thread, whom I generally consider rational, calm, and well-thought-out, who insist that "after BlizzCon" means "March, April, or later" for no reason other than they are completely colored by rage and intent on venting by assuming the absolute worst.
The real best-case scenario, based on the actual statement in that article, is that the PTR goes up sometime in October and that they said "after BlizzCon" because they planned on having a lengthier PTR to really nail this shit down with player feedback. To portray March/April 2014 as the "best-case scenario" is not even close to an accurate use of that term and disappointing coming from people who surely know better than that.
This is the place that I think most people are slowly reaching.
And Blizzard knows it - but I don't think they are concerned about it. And it sorta makes sense as to why they aren't worried.
If they hit you every few months with something that makes you go and check out their game again for a short while, why worry about trying to hit you ever few weeks/months with amazing content? Why spend the dollars and energy to keep their game at the top of people's interest?
Play D3 for a little bit (as they recently said) and then go play something else for a little while, then come back to check on the small positive changes they've made to the game. Much easier to do and they don't have to worry about staying above the competition.
And I think we all can admit - even if we rage quit, most of us will get drawn back in. But instead of coming back to the game with excitement we come back with wary skepticism. Which is sad for a company that once was so great.
Wouldn't it be great to log into the PTR with the excitement of seeing what amazing things Blizzard has in store for a game that already exceeds your expectations? I think the general consensus now reserved judgement.
Oh well. There's always hope that the first expansion will finally deliver on what they promised and start a new pattern of amazing new content and stuff to keep the players happy.
First I must disclaim that I'm neither raging nor ragequitting after this news. I haven't played much since november, when I did the paragon thing, and a bout after the crafting patch to keep up to date with the changes. Other games can entertain me in my free hours while I wait.
But I do find it slightly disappointing. I've been playing computer games for thirty years, and I've followed quite a few developers as they release patches and content (without the games being subscription-based). It seems to me that Blizzard are being slow, as opposed to just thorough. Perhaps it really takes this long to come up with good ideas and implement them. If so, they should put more people on it. Other games making less $ seem to produce more in less time.
Maybe they're really going nuts on revamping items behind the scenes. We don't know what's being done. Maybe they don't want to put out spoilers (though any dataminers can do that for us). Maybe a lot of coding's going on the back over there.
Maybe future Triumvirates will have 10% chance to stun on hit (lightning), 10% chance to inflict X% weapon damage burn on hit (fire), 10% chance to freeze on hit (replace arcane with cold).
Maybe future Butcher's Sickles will no longer have a "chance" to pull an enemy in, but have a new active skill slot that allows you to pull enemies in at will (with reasonable cooldown).
For that matter, maybe all future items that have special proc abilities can be manually cast instead. That'll take a TON of time to develop as it requires changing the combat UI, etc.
We don't know anything. That's the bottom line. We don't know Blizzard's process and what's on their table.
They said they're looking for input as they want every single legendary to have something that makes you go "oh wow". And that's what takes up a lot of the time, coming up with ideas.
Perhaps we should make a separate topic here or on the official forums and contribute (at least) 1 idea each, voluntarily. Remember they said they don't just want adds +x% to [insert skill] and are actively thinking of alternative ideas.
If that's the only stance their taking..then it still doesn't address the fundamental problems with itemization..primary stats. Changing legendaries to shoot laser beams or hurling axes at people doesn't change the fact that you're stuck building your character around 1 stat (and affixes of course)
I'm actually fine with items as they are, I wish they would get something PVP related done. Hell just allow people to duel in public games and I'd be content with that. Outside of flexing your e-dick there really isn't any benefit to min maxing your character if you're already face rolling the game. (which many people have been doing for months and months already).
This game I think brings in so much negativity from people including myself at times because of the high pillar it was placed on just due to it being part of the Diablo universe and being something that was like 10+years in the making and that it was so broken and bland upon release and for most of the following months after.
I've been around development of applications and databases throughout my professional career so I know how much time it takes to get things done and that there are many different departments involved and communicating changes but they can only use that excuse for so long.
Good job on making an 8 page thread with almost no trolling and very few ignorant comments overall. Very intelligent comments and insights so far, with no poking/flaming
You guys are fucking awesome. I'm very proud of us all
If that's the only stance their taking..then it still doesn't address the fundamental problems with itemization..primary stats. Changing legendaries to shoot laser beams or hurling axes at people doesn't change the fact that you're stuck building your character around 1 stat (and affixes of course)
First off, it's obviously not the only thing they're changing.
Secondly, primary stats are absolutely not the fundamental issue with itemization. The fundamental issue is how the items roll, the massive pool of properties they can select from, and a rather small segment of (mostly offensive) properties that everyone wants.
If you roll life/sec on a pair of gloves you've probably ruined them. THAT is the fundamental issue with itemization (and it applies to a lot of other stats). There should NEVER be a statistic that rolls on an item where you think "that makes this item suck." I'm ok with a "good/better/best" paradigm, but right now we have "bad/excellent" and the difference is chasmic.
I'm not saying that life/sec will ever compete with IAS, or primary stat, or crit chance/damage. I'm not even saying it should "compete." What I'm saying is that if you roll life/sec instead of an offensive stat you shouldn't think "well this is complete garbage." That is what is fundamentally wrong with items right now.
Maybe I am expecting a little much, and if previous experience with the d3 team should tell me anything it's that I'm always expecting a little much, but if it is taking this long to be patched into the game.. it had better be a monumental change in the game. I'm serious, if we wait this long and just get new proc effects and stat replacement on legendaries I will have to walk away.
I have to say that of all their IPs an ARPG should have been the easiest to get right. Essentially you need a game with good combat and rewarding loot systems that drives continued hunting for better items. Hopefully pairing it with a good story and vibrant world.
They nailed combat and have created a very pretty game. However, they stumbled sooo hard with items and endgame. They know that. We know that. The problem is, I don't think they knew what they wanted to make when they were working on this game all these years. It became so painfully diluted by release that all we had left was a framework to create an awesome game upon. I know some people theorize that it was watered down for consoles, but if the game has major shortcomings on the PC it will have those same letdowns on the console even if it was tailored towards it. Console players will be just as let down, unless they do some major work for the game.
I am optimistic for the expansions and the direction of the game, but I am still dumbfounded that the game ever arrived at the state it was in at launch.
I will install D3 again for this patch but... Why the hell it takes so much time
It's clear they don't know what they're doing.
They'll get around to it just before the x-pac, because that's when they stand to make money on the PC version again. Don't expect anything significant until at least early spring 2014, or whenever they announce the x-pac release date.
Then stop complaining. I guess everyone here got more play time from D3 compared to most subscription free games. So stop expecting this game to get free content and updates like a subscription based game.
I hope you're not directing this towards me - because this is exactly my opinion and one of the reasons why I said like a thousand times that I never expected the itemization fix before the expansion anyways.
I'm really so sick of these stupid nonsense comparisons.
Every day there are "help me gear up" threads on the class forums and it's quite common for people to have multiple items without main stat. Even higher geared people sometimes don't have a main stat on jewelry, weapons, pants, gloves, ... for many reasons. Look at the top people @Diabloprogress and their pants. Or some people's belts. Or weapons. And lower geared people couldn't care less about main stat on gloves or jewelry - unless you get a lucky drop you can't really afford it anyways.
Yes, itemization needs to be fixed. No, these screenshots do not help, nor explain the problem, nor depict the itemization problem as a whole. And many of them are straight out wrong. Said helm you linked in the pic would've never been worn by any of my characters... no FHR, no FCR, no +skills... go away.
The philosophy of "Look, not everyone who buys these games is a long term player and we don't want them to be overwhelmed with complex choices and depth" makes no sense to me.
If it's implied that the VERY casual gamers (those who buy the game and only progress through normal) will already be buying the game, why not have made the game for those of us who were in it for the long term?
That's an issue I have with this whole mess. I really think they expected the game to be less successful than their other franchises and they way they approached and executed so much of this game speaks to that.
Well I called that. I had a feeling it wouldn't be this year. The game is really stagnant, hell I'd be happy if they just opened up world PVP and increased the player caps in the games. That would at least give people something to do for awhile. This game cannot survive without a better form of PVP and the arena format simply doesn't cut it.
The itemization patch really won't solve many problems, in fact it will probably create more. They should have never made items focus on a main stat in the first place. They should have allowed you to build the character around the gear, not the gear around the character. If they don't make the itemization patch have any real ground breaking changes outside of now you can find legendaries which scale based on the item level (which is good). They need to really change how main stats are used with characters to make gear more appealing.
I've decided to just take a break from the game for awhile as I've done in the past to play a few other games and I imagine I'll be back slaying demons like I always am in a few months.
I really want them to succeed at making this game worth while again, but I feel like their just taking too long to address some of the bigger core issues in the game.
That would kill of D3 once and for all. BOA should only be a punishment for using the AH.
They need more stats.
That is the worst comparison I've ever seen. Hell you could have used a shako and even then that wouldn't be 100% correct. Yes gear could be appealing to 99% of classes and builds, but not all the time nor for every build. I'd say d2 allowed you to have more freedom because you could build your character around gear and not be pidgin holed into having to go for a main stat every time. A better example for an item people could always use would be crown of ages. (yes not all builds but a lot of pvp builds it was used).
Ultimately if the itemization patch wants to be successful, it needs address primary stats..however I doubt that will be possible as that involves changing much more than just the items you find.
Ya know what I thought would be a great idea? If they made itemization not suck ass, that would be neat.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
Lol sorry if I hurt your feelings. Way to focus on one thing and fail to grasp the point - that itemization had known issues since nearly a year ago, and now we're told it'll be 1.5+ years from then before this grand fail in design is (hopefully) corrected.
Oh, and the reason why pants often don't have main stat is because all classes wear Inna's. Lol. If your diabloprogress heroes have other gear that lack main stat it's probably because they rolled trifecta. Dammit that infographic didn't neatly encapsulate this fail aspect of itemization either!
Maybe future Triumvirates will have 10% chance to stun on hit (lightning), 10% chance to inflict X% weapon damage burn on hit (fire), 10% chance to freeze on hit (replace arcane with cold).
Maybe future Butcher's Sickles will no longer have a "chance" to pull an enemy in, but have a new active skill slot that allows you to pull enemies in at will (with reasonable cooldown).
For that matter, maybe all future items that have special proc abilities can be manually cast instead. That'll take a TON of time to develop as it requires changing the combat UI, etc.
We don't know anything. That's the bottom line. We don't know Blizzard's process and what's on their table.
Armory | YouTube | Twitter | Clan Site
No, everyone knows exactly what's happening at Blizzard here.
Just look at the guy above you. Blizzard knew "January 1, 1012."
That attitude says it all and it's exactly why EVERY announcment is met with pitchforks and torches. Because that's the simple, backwoods, mentality that the Diablo community has. When something doesn't go the way someone wants it to go they are immediately an insider and know how "simple" it is to make changes and that it should have been done on such-and-such a timeline.
Hell, we have two people in this thread, whom I generally consider rational, calm, and well-thought-out, who insist that "after BlizzCon" means "March, April, or later" for no reason other than they are completely colored by rage and intent on venting by assuming the absolute worst.
The real best-case scenario, based on the actual statement in that article, is that the PTR goes up sometime in October and that they said "after BlizzCon" because they planned on having a lengthier PTR to really nail this shit down with player feedback. To portray March/April 2014 as the "best-case scenario" is not even close to an accurate use of that term and disappointing coming from people who surely know better than that.
This is the place that I think most people are slowly reaching.
And Blizzard knows it - but I don't think they are concerned about it. And it sorta makes sense as to why they aren't worried.
If they hit you every few months with something that makes you go and check out their game again for a short while, why worry about trying to hit you ever few weeks/months with amazing content? Why spend the dollars and energy to keep their game at the top of people's interest?
Play D3 for a little bit (as they recently said) and then go play something else for a little while, then come back to check on the small positive changes they've made to the game. Much easier to do and they don't have to worry about staying above the competition.
And I think we all can admit - even if we rage quit, most of us will get drawn back in. But instead of coming back to the game with excitement we come back with wary skepticism. Which is sad for a company that once was so great.
Wouldn't it be great to log into the PTR with the excitement of seeing what amazing things Blizzard has in store for a game that already exceeds your expectations? I think the general consensus now reserved judgement.
Oh well. There's always hope that the first expansion will finally deliver on what they promised and start a new pattern of amazing new content and stuff to keep the players happy.
Maybe.
Monkalicious: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/OptimusPrime-12194/hero/79139477
But I do find it slightly disappointing. I've been playing computer games for thirty years, and I've followed quite a few developers as they release patches and content (without the games being subscription-based). It seems to me that Blizzard are being slow, as opposed to just thorough. Perhaps it really takes this long to come up with good ideas and implement them. If so, they should put more people on it. Other games making less $ seem to produce more in less time.
http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/sodomir-2220/
If that's the only stance their taking..then it still doesn't address the fundamental problems with itemization..primary stats. Changing legendaries to shoot laser beams or hurling axes at people doesn't change the fact that you're stuck building your character around 1 stat (and affixes of course)
I'm actually fine with items as they are, I wish they would get something PVP related done. Hell just allow people to duel in public games and I'd be content with that. Outside of flexing your e-dick there really isn't any benefit to min maxing your character if you're already face rolling the game. (which many people have been doing for months and months already).
This game I think brings in so much negativity from people including myself at times because of the high pillar it was placed on just due to it being part of the Diablo universe and being something that was like 10+years in the making and that it was so broken and bland upon release and for most of the following months after.
I've been around development of applications and databases throughout my professional career so I know how much time it takes to get things done and that there are many different departments involved and communicating changes but they can only use that excuse for so long.
You guys are fucking awesome. I'm very proud of us all
First off, it's obviously not the only thing they're changing.
Secondly, primary stats are absolutely not the fundamental issue with itemization. The fundamental issue is how the items roll, the massive pool of properties they can select from, and a rather small segment of (mostly offensive) properties that everyone wants.
If you roll life/sec on a pair of gloves you've probably ruined them. THAT is the fundamental issue with itemization (and it applies to a lot of other stats). There should NEVER be a statistic that rolls on an item where you think "that makes this item suck." I'm ok with a "good/better/best" paradigm, but right now we have "bad/excellent" and the difference is chasmic.
I'm not saying that life/sec will ever compete with IAS, or primary stat, or crit chance/damage. I'm not even saying it should "compete." What I'm saying is that if you roll life/sec instead of an offensive stat you shouldn't think "well this is complete garbage." That is what is fundamentally wrong with items right now.
They nailed combat and have created a very pretty game. However, they stumbled sooo hard with items and endgame. They know that. We know that. The problem is, I don't think they knew what they wanted to make when they were working on this game all these years. It became so painfully diluted by release that all we had left was a framework to create an awesome game upon. I know some people theorize that it was watered down for consoles, but if the game has major shortcomings on the PC it will have those same letdowns on the console even if it was tailored towards it. Console players will be just as let down, unless they do some major work for the game.
I am optimistic for the expansions and the direction of the game, but I am still dumbfounded that the game ever arrived at the state it was in at launch.
It's clear they don't know what they're doing.
They'll get around to it just before the x-pac, because that's when they stand to make money on the PC version again. Don't expect anything significant until at least early spring 2014, or whenever they announce the x-pac release date.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
I hope you're not directing this towards me - because this is exactly my opinion and one of the reasons why I said like a thousand times that I never expected the itemization fix before the expansion anyways.