I've just begun playing Torchlight and since I started the game, I found myself thinking "O my god! this is just like that Diablo 3 video i saw". And when i thought this was only a coincidence, I find myself thinking that again a few minutes later. Let me point some things that I think are really similar in Diablo 3 and Torchlight.
Skeletons with shield blocking a bridge, check
Warrior, barb, that uses a cleave attack with a red "swoosh", check
Shield that slows things around you, check
Shared stash, check,
Wandering vendors, check,
Prison in a molten sea of lava, check,
and on and on,
My point is, Torchlight came out in 2009, sure Blizzard didn't stole anything from Runic Games but they sure took a lot of inspiration on what they saw in that game. I'm a huge Diablo 3 fan BTW, I await this game like a priest awaits the coming of the christ. If you played Torchlight and have anything you would like to add, please do so.
Well, the first gameplay video of D3 had almost all of these elements and they were copied into torchlight imo, not the way around.
It really looked like they saw the gameplay of D3 and rushed into making a game out of it.
Btw, some people that made Torchlight were in Blizzard before so they probably kept some of the ideas they had from when they were working on the earlier versions of D3.
Anyway, i think you are going to get flamed dude xD
It's natural that it should have similarities to games in the genre that came before. I hope they take a few of the good things in TL and adapt them/make them their own (looking at you shared stash). I must agree that it sometimes looks like they went too far but I will reserve judgment until the game comes out! (Also it would be interesting to know when some of these attributes were developed in relation to release of the source that gave the inspiration.)
Edit: Jamoose, you got here first and with more solid information! I am so ashamed.
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If that made sense to you, Bravo! I think I even confused myself...
Anything substantial that Diablo 3 took from Torchlight is probably something Torchlight took from Diablo 2. Not to mention that:
Skeletons with shield blocking a bridge, check
Warrior, barb, that uses a cleave attack with a red "swoosh", check
Both of those things premiered in D3 during its announcement, which happened before TL was released. Not to mention skeletons with shields and cleaving melee characters can't really be claimed by any one game. Which could pretty much be said for everything you've pointed out, with the exception of the shared stash, which is really just logical. I would have bet that D3 would have a shared stash before the game was even announced. And afaik D3 doesn't have wandering vendors. The Artisans come from town to town with you, but its not like in TL where they are in the dungeon with you.
I wouldn't be surprised to find that TL at least influenced D3, as its a game in the same genre, but at least for the examples you gave, its not really stuff thats exclusive to one game, with the possible exception of the prison in molten lava.
The fact that they probably designed the prison level after Torchlight was out makes me wonder... I agree that developers often get ideas from other games around them but in this case, I think they could come up with some more inspired level since its been in developement for like 10 years...
Its one dungeon in the first act. And I would be willing to bet that concepts for that dungeon, like concepts for many of the stuff in D3, dates back to 2005 or so. Just because two games have red colored dungeons (and as a sidenote, the one in D3 doesn't involve any lava, only fire) doesn't mean that one stole from the other.
The fact that they probably designed the prison level after Torchlight was out makes me wonder... I agree that developers often get ideas from other games around them but in this case, I think they could come up with some more inspired level since its been in developement for like 10 years...
There was a prison level in d2 too, plus what SFJake said.
Besides the first d3 gameplay video was released before they even started making Torchlight. And there are many skills that are a copy of skills shown in the d3 video.
And a red dungeon with fire isn't a unique idea, so there's no reason to think one copied another.
Ok just to make myself clear, I am not saying that anyone stole anything here. Only pointing out the fact that Blizzard, with the high standard they are imposing on their games, should pay attention to the OBVIOUS similarity Diablo 3 has with Torchlight.
I agree they don't get the rights on the CLEAVE and the prison and that they will certainly improve on that a lot. I also think that Diablo 3 will be one of the greatest RPG Hack-n-Slash ever made. But don't make us say " Wow, I saw that almost exactly in an other game".
Ok just to make myself clear, I am not saying that anyone stole anything here. Only pointing out the fact that Blizzard, with the high standard they are imposing on their games, should pay attention to the OBVIOUS similarity Diablo 3 has with Torchlight.
I agree they don't get the rights on the CLEAVE and the prison and that they will certainly improve on that a lot. I also think that Diablo 3 will be one of the greatest RPG Hack-n-Slash ever made. But don't make us say " Wow, I saw that almost exactly in an other game".
It's obvious that Blizzard didn't copy anything from Torchlight. And blizzard showed cleave before torchlight was released.
I think the key point to keep in mind is the THREE in diablo 3, theres been two entries in the diablo universe before torchlight. The entire premise of torchlight is piggybacking off of diablo. Sure you can name four or five ideas that diablo 3 implemented post torchlight, but that doesn't have much bearing when torchlight took literally millions of ideas from diablo and diablo 2. Some of the torchlight team is made up of ex-diablo team members, but that's a whole other point.
There's no point saying some game owned the idea of a "cleave" skill. Diablo 2 had it i think, WoW had it too and i'm pretty sure many many games before them had it aswell.
On the "red themed dungeon" part, think of one RPG game without one. Seriously, i can't think of one without and i'm thinking all the way back to 1996 (that i started playing, i'm pretty sure there were tons before that - even Super Mario has lava :P).
Anyway, thing is that Torchlight does have some of the developers that worked in the first two Diablo games. That alone leads them to implement ideas they saw worked in those games. What Torchlight does, is produce decent, low-budget games quickly without much depth or variety that sell cause the Diablo III team take their time to make sure the game is what we expect it to be when it's released.
It's obvious that Blizzard didn't copy anything from Torchlight.
The 'demon hunter' is a pretty straight rip of the vanquisher, IMO. There's a reason the female version appeared first. Otherwise, they are both fairly derivative games.
The 'demon hunter' is a pretty straight rip of the vanquisher, IMO. There's a reason the female version appeared first. Otherwise, they are both fairly derivative games.
I gotta say that Torchlight was a shitty game. Yes, that game was shit. I admit that i played it and was somewhat excited about it but only for 2 days really. To me it was really obvious how TL copied everything from Diablo but thats not the point because if you start saying who copied who this arguement will never end.
What matters is, that TL provided us something that D3 will have. It was good while it lasted. Something to quench our thirst for a decent Diablo game.
It's obvious that Blizzard didn't copy anything from Torchlight.
The 'demon hunter' is a pretty straight rip of the vanquisher, IMO. There's a reason the female version appeared first. Otherwise, they are both fairly derivative games.
Which is pretty much a straight rip of the Rogue. Or really any ranged archetype.
And the reason the female version appeared first is because the Barb and WD appeared as male first (but then the female versions soon after) then the Wiz premiered as female, Monk male, and the DH female. It just alternated. Not to mention that if they did rip it straight from the Vanquisher they would probably want to disguise it by having the DH premiere as male. And you can make an argument for pretty much any ranged character (or any other archetype) being ripped from a character in a previous game. Obviously there will be similarities when you're aiming to fill the same role.
My guess is the people from blizzard who worked on TL, used some the the same ideas from D3. After playing the D3 barbarian at blizzcon08, and then playing the barbarian on TL, I was like DAMN almost all the attacks were the same. It was kinda fun at first, but I didn't like the story that much. I don't even remember what it was in fact. Then after I beat it I didn't even make any of the other two classes. It was meh to me. It was like an extra extra fat free version of D3. But then again if I remember correctly TL was free, so I can't complain much.
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Skeletons with shield blocking a bridge, check
Warrior, barb, that uses a cleave attack with a red "swoosh", check
Shield that slows things around you, check
Shared stash, check,
Wandering vendors, check,
Prison in a molten sea of lava, check,
and on and on,
My point is, Torchlight came out in 2009, sure Blizzard didn't stole anything from Runic Games but they sure took a lot of inspiration on what they saw in that game. I'm a huge Diablo 3 fan BTW, I await this game like a priest awaits the coming of the christ. If you played Torchlight and have anything you would like to add, please do so.
It really looked like they saw the gameplay of D3 and rushed into making a game out of it.
Btw, some people that made Torchlight were in Blizzard before so they probably kept some of the ideas they had from when they were working on the earlier versions of D3.
Anyway, i think you are going to get flamed dude xD
Edit: Jamoose, you got here first and with more solid information! I am so ashamed.
Both of those things premiered in D3 during its announcement, which happened before TL was released. Not to mention skeletons with shields and cleaving melee characters can't really be claimed by any one game. Which could pretty much be said for everything you've pointed out, with the exception of the shared stash, which is really just logical. I would have bet that D3 would have a shared stash before the game was even announced. And afaik D3 doesn't have wandering vendors. The Artisans come from town to town with you, but its not like in TL where they are in the dungeon with you.
I wouldn't be surprised to find that TL at least influenced D3, as its a game in the same genre, but at least for the examples you gave, its not really stuff thats exclusive to one game, with the possible exception of the prison in molten lava.
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Why is this topic allowed to breathe?
Lmao.
There was a prison level in d2 too, plus what SFJake said.
Besides the first d3 gameplay video was released before they even started making Torchlight. And there are many skills that are a copy of skills shown in the d3 video.
And a red dungeon with fire isn't a unique idea, so there's no reason to think one copied another.
I agree they don't get the rights on the CLEAVE and the prison and that they will certainly improve on that a lot. I also think that Diablo 3 will be one of the greatest RPG Hack-n-Slash ever made. But don't make us say " Wow, I saw that almost exactly in an other game".
It's obvious that Blizzard didn't copy anything from Torchlight. And blizzard showed cleave before torchlight was released.
On the "red themed dungeon" part, think of one RPG game without one. Seriously, i can't think of one without and i'm thinking all the way back to 1996 (that i started playing, i'm pretty sure there were tons before that - even Super Mario has lava :P).
Anyway, thing is that Torchlight does have some of the developers that worked in the first two Diablo games. That alone leads them to implement ideas they saw worked in those games. What Torchlight does, is produce decent, low-budget games quickly without much depth or variety that sell cause the Diablo III team take their time to make sure the game is what we expect it to be when it's released.
The 'demon hunter' is a pretty straight rip of the vanquisher, IMO. There's a reason the female version appeared first. Otherwise, they are both fairly derivative games.
I meant the things he mentioned.
What matters is, that TL provided us something that D3 will have. It was good while it lasted. Something to quench our thirst for a decent Diablo game.
And the reason the female version appeared first is because the Barb and WD appeared as male first (but then the female versions soon after) then the Wiz premiered as female, Monk male, and the DH female. It just alternated. Not to mention that if they did rip it straight from the Vanquisher they would probably want to disguise it by having the DH premiere as male. And you can make an argument for pretty much any ranged character (or any other archetype) being ripped from a character in a previous game. Obviously there will be similarities when you're aiming to fill the same role.
Find any Diablo news? Contact me or anyone else on the news team.
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