All trading does is encourage you to hunt for "value" instead of hunting for specific things.
How you gonna feel about that statement if there's a few specific items you REALLY want, but can never have? Even after years of trying?
It's a valid concern. I know I would NEVER have gotten my Eshaft for my Zealot in D2 unless I traded the perf HoZ Meph gave me.
This proposal means....that dynamic is GONE.
Admittedly, I'm a little torn here. Because I despise the 3rd party trade, D3jsp and all their ilk as well as the scammers and bottom-feeders that emerge with any sort of trade based economy.
To make matters worse, there can only be 4 people in game at once, even further limiting your ability to quick-trade with others. There has to be a better solution than this.
The hope is that there will be such a bevy of useful and fun legendaries and the self drop-rate will be high enough that there will always be something useful for me to utilize if I just slay monsters at a healthy rate. Hunting for a specific legendary will definitely keep me motivated to keep playing in the long haul as well. I would gladly sacrifice never finding a Windforce if it meant that all the legendaries I did find were mine alone and the game was built in a way to reflect that. It would make me proud to wear my items, because they would truly be MY items, and there would be no disputing that!
Right now, all my characters have all the legendaries they could possibly desire, and I would gladly make half of those legendaries disappear if it gave me a reason to keep hunting for them! Unfortunately the game in its current state is too dull for that, considering the crappy random affix ranges on legendaries. Found too many crappy ones to care for hunting them.
Agreed, I understand the whole rng angle but personally I cant think of a lv60+ leg that I havn't found at least once. They're increasing the legendary drop rates by 6 times, drastically lowering the roll ranges, they'll be easy enough to find.
I am all for anything that makes trading something you do amongst your friends, and not something that encourages a global market. The global market aspect is what fuels my disdain for trading. It causes so many problems and diminishes the rewarding part of finding, owning, and utilizing a legendary. If a halfway solution can be proposed that accomplishes these goals, I would gladly support it. But if I had to choose between no trading and rewarding legendary drops or yes to trading and finding my own legendaries becoming a dull and lifeless experience; I'd choose the former.
Even if they only have Legendaries that are the top ilvls (ilvl 71, 72,73?) be BOA but ilvl 70 and below are tradeable... that could be a small compromise
Although Diablo is not a PvP game, some want to have the best character they can possibly have and that sort of creates a weird competition..
Some may not give a shit... some do..
And for those that do they feel it is lame that players can just Pay to get the best items rather than Play..
I don't mind BOA if it provides the same solution for what the AH was for in part: stopping Bot spaming in games and 3rd party sites/unsafe trading enviroments
As someone thats fully taken advantage of the AH (flipping), I'm on board with this.
I'm going to let this [soulbound] soak in and see how I feel at a later date.
The most important aspects of D3 is that it is a rewarding, challenging, fun game to play and that it retains it's integrity (an aspect that was lost to D2).
Currently, I don't even play softcore anymore, I only play HC and I do it self-found. I do use the AH to buy mats....because the whole game is skewed toward the AH and crafting.... but I could certainly do fine without even doing that.
One thing that may make trading still an option;
I noticed the Clan screen shot had a cue for messages. If one were in a strong clan, and we had 2 hours (a little more would be suffice) ......well...there could still be a healthy player run trade system within the Clan.
What say you to that?
Wasn't it a limited timeframe to trade with the other players already in the game? As in no trading with someone who wasn't there when the item dropped.
Not sure, but Blizz should consider Clan trades. It wouldn't betray Blizzard's intent. Players would still have options for trade. 3rd party sites would wither. Scammers and botters would reel.
This could encourage people to participate in Clan membership, as well as strengthen Clan play. Heretofore....we could have a viable manner of unloading great drops for classes we don't play, to trade with friends for items/gold/mats we do want/need.
That being said, I think 2 hours is a bit of a small window. Blizz may want to rethink the time frame.
Sounds to me like a good even ground may be a clan trading system?
You can't have (1) legendaries drop at a frequent rate, (2) have no bad rolls on legendaries (3) have them be tradeable, and (4) have the experience of finding a legendary feel rewarding. It's asking too much. Something has got to give.
Yes, you can. You just have to forgo one of the options BY YOURSELF, but they can all be in the game.
I, for example, would forgo trading on a mass scale, so (1) legendaries would still drop at a frequent rate, (2), they would have no bad rolls, (3) they would still be tradable, and, because I wasn't mass trading, (4) the experience of finding a legendary would still be rewarding.
With all the problems trading causes: duping, scamming, pay to win, botting... I think the answer is obvious. It is a sacrifice, but I think once people give it a try and put their fears aside they will find it will be for the better.
None of those things affect me, so all the changes would be for the worse.
You don't think they affect you, but they do. You are in a multiplayer environment, everything concerning items can affect you unless you play in a bubble and never join a game with another player. Even playing a game with someone that has traded outside themselves gives you an advantage you probably don't think much about. I can pontificate further or list other examples if you'd like?
The game is not a sandbox. Let's just take it a step further and lose all restrictions and have everybody pose their own restrictions on themselves based on how they feel the game should be played then? Blizzard taking a unified stance on a mechanic has a purpose. Self imposing limits is self defeating. You put the limits on yourself, but don't actually feel engaged by it because it is for no real purpose, because for many it is a multiplayer experience and you want to play on the same footing as everyone else does.
The game is not a sandbox. Let's just take it a step further and lose all restrictions and have everybody pose their own restrictions on themselves based on how they feel the game should be played then? Blizzard taking a unified stance on a mechanic has a purpose. Self imposing limits is self defeating. You put the limits on yourself, but don't actually feel engaged by it because it is for no real purpose, because for many it is a multiplayer experience and you want to play on the same footing as everyone else does.
Myself and Maka already do that. With these proposed changes, we wouldn't be able to help each other out. Not sure how that makes a better player experience?
The game is not a sandbox. Let's just take it a step further and lose all restrictions and have everybody pose their own restrictions on themselves based on how they feel the game should be played then? Blizzard taking a unified stance on a mechanic has a purpose. Self imposing limits is self defeating. You put the limits on yourself, but don't actually feel engaged by it because it is for no real purpose, because for many it is a multiplayer experience and you want to play on the same footing as everyone else does.
Myself and Maka already do that. With these proposed changes, we wouldn't be able to help each other out. Not sure how that makes a better player experience?
Many people might enjoy self-imposed limitations to enhance their experiences and that is okay, but it should not be the basis for creating proper balance. The game still has to set a precedent by imposing its own boundaries.
You can't have (1) legendaries drop at a frequent rate, (2) have no bad rolls on legendaries (3) have them be tradeable, and (4) have the experience of finding a legendary feel rewarding. It's asking too much. Something has got to give.
Yes, you can. You just have to forgo one of the options BY YOURSELF, but they can all be in the game.
I, for example, would forgo trading on a mass scale, so (1) legendaries would still drop at a frequent rate, (2), they would have no bad rolls, (3) they would still be tradable, and, because I wasn't mass trading, (4) the experience of finding a legendary would still be rewarding.
With all the problems trading causes: duping, scamming, pay to win, botting... I think the answer is obvious. It is a sacrifice, but I think once people give it a try and put their fears aside they will find it will be for the better.
None of those things affect me, so all the changes would be for the worse.
You don't think they affect you, but they do. You are in a multiplayer environment, everything concerning items can affect you unless you play in a bubble and never join a game with another player. Even playing a game with someone that has traded outside themselves gives you an advantage you probably don't think much about. I can pontificate further or list other examples if you'd like?
Not true at all, This only works in game with direct competition against one another. In Diablo there's no competition between players other than the minimal PVP'ing available and even then by the time real PVP comes out hopefully they'll have a matchmaking system in place that takes into account gear tiers as well as skill. In Diablo you're constantly competing against yourself to one-up your own gear, but the problem with no trading at all is that it reduces the amount of availability by far too much. There has to be minimal trading between players. If there's next to no availability of items then you could go years without seeing an item or achieving that perfect set that you want to base your build around, I'm not saying we shouldn't have to work for it but if I find 5 Mempo's and I'm looking for a Tals I should be able to say "Hey, I got this badass Mempo, and you got that badass Tal's wanna trade?" Having this scenario completely eliminated is absolutely ridiculous, and everyone saying "oh you can trade with the people in the game yeah for a 'Limited amount of time'" well what about if no one gets Tals in my game and I get the mempo in that game, then I am just shit out of luck again? Come on that's not a good solution for me.
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What I was getting at is the global trade market can affect you even if you personally don't take part in it. If the market is directed in a way where someone dupes millions of perfect mempos and someone who joins your game has one of those mempos because they were then dirt cheap and could be traded for a chipped ruby. They help you kill monsters faster, because their DPS is inflated by that mempo, you are benefitting from that by monsters in your game dying faster. It's an extreme example, but these type of nuances affect your item hunt all the time even if you ignore the market personally, you are indirectly influenced by it.
Another example. Legendaries are tradeable. Over the course of a few months these legendaries flood the market and everyone has amazing gear that nobody actually found themselves. You don't personally trade, because you choose not to, and you blindly tell yourself that it doesn't affect you at all what other players do! Well, when you play with those players who benefitted from trading in an oversaturated market, monsters die quicker in your game and you indirectly benefit.
Another examples. Gems. Hardly anyone has ever actually made their own radiant star gems by picking them up and creating the gems themselves, but many people still tend to have full sets somehow. Those players join your game and kill monsters faster, which in turn you benefit from.
So, to thereby say that what happens in the global market doesn't affect you is a ridiculous claim. The only way it couldn't is if you don't play with anyone, but then why would you care about trading in the first place?
What I was getting at is the global trade market can affect you even if you personally don't take part in it. If the market is directed in a way where someone dupes millions of perfect mempos and someone who joins your game has one of those mempos because they were then dirt cheap and could be traded for a chipped ruby. They help you kill monsters faster, because their DPS is inflated by that mempo, you are benefitting from that by monsters in your game dying faster. It's an extreme example, but these type of nuances affect your item hunt all the time even if you ignore the market personally, you are indirectly influenced by it.
Another example. Legendaries are tradeable. Over the course of a few months these legendaries flood the market and everyone has amazing gear that nobody actually found themselves. You don't personally trade, because you choose not to, and you blindly tell yourself that it doesn't affect you at all what other players do! Well, when you play with those players who benefitted from trading and an oversaturated market monsters die quicker in your game and you indirectly benefit.
Another examples. Gems. Hardly anyone has ever actually made their own radiant star gems, but they still tend to have full sets. Those players join your game and kill monsters faster, which in turn you benefit from.
So, to thereby say that what happens in the global market doesn't affect you is a ridiculous claim. The only way it couldn't is if you don't play with anyone, but then why would you care about trading in the first place?
D3 is dupe free.
This will always be a game of the haves and the have nots. Only, some trade aspect for end game gears offers players some pliability.
What I was getting at is the global trade market can affect you even if you personally don't take part in it. If the market is directed in a way where someone dupes millions of perfect mempos and someone who joins your game has one of those mempos because they were then dirt cheap and could be traded for a chipped ruby. They help you kill monsters faster, because their DPS is inflated by that mempo, you are benefitting from that by monsters in your game dying faster. It's an extreme example, but these type of nuances affect your item hunt all the time even if you ignore the market personally, you are indirectly influenced by it.
Another example. Legendaries are tradeable. Over the course of a few months these legendaries flood the market and everyone has amazing gear that nobody actually found themselves. You don't personally trade, because you choose not to, and you blindly tell yourself that it doesn't affect you at all what other players do! Well, when you play with those players who benefitted from trading and an oversaturated market monsters die quicker in your game and you indirectly benefit.
Another examples. Gems. Hardly anyone has ever actually made their own radiant star gems, but they still tend to have full sets. Those players join your game and kill monsters faster, which in turn you benefit from.
So, to thereby say that what happens in the global market doesn't affect you is a ridiculous claim. The only way it couldn't is if you don't play with anyone, but then why would you care about trading in the first place?
D3 is dupe free.
You can't be serious?
Even if you are and that was actually true, the point still stands. What happens in the global economy affects you all the time when you play with others.
I like this cos this way u will see who is rly DIablo 3 pro not like hey i will use my 100k fg that i got from poker at d2jsp and have better gear than some1 with over 2,3k hours ingame with not a penny spended,and to see streamers handle this.If u say u love d3 then play it like mad and get all that u need which it is not possible right now.P.S they can try with only in-clan (main) trading oflegs and sets.
There is no dupe method. Only customer service scams. You can't make millions of items using that scam, maybe 8 or 10.
It's still a hypothetical regardless. It is easy to transition the argument to other ways the global market indirectly affect every person that plays with almost any other player. You may choose to play D3 "your way" but what is going on around you still takes a toll on your experience, because what others are doing influences you when you play with them.
So if the market is overflooded with tradable and easily acquired legendaries when you play with them you are affected by that when they kill stuff quicker than they otherwise would be. You gain faster experience and more items as a result.
I wouldn't go as far as saying I wouldn't buy the game because of it, but it definitely is a negative thing in my eyes now. We just need more info and time to think about it. I don't like knee-jerk reactions to changes like these (even though sometimes said reactions are necessary).
As shocking as this is - I say give it a chance and consider it. None of us have experienced the new loot system in RoS. And they have been saying that they want you to find your stuff by killing monsters, not trading.
In the Gamescom Loot 2.0 breakdown, Josh said that in a regular run in act 3 with a paragon level 40 character they averaged 6 legendary items.
Its not the same game. So with respect to the folks that are saying "if I can't get a mempo, than that's not fair" should really reflect on this. Chances are simply higher that you might find one now with their new system - that they've been talking about for a long time now.
Not being able to fill up a mule with cool legendaries that i can trade/sell is a big break from the Diablo experience. Having a mule with legendaries that I can use on my other classes and perhaps get motivated to roll a new character seems to be on the mark for a Diablo game.
Have you guys played the console version? If so you know with hardly any effort you get every damn legendary and set item you need. Now that we know rare legend and set items will be BiS in RoS i highly doubt they will be hard to find.
Honestly i'll give it to blizzard for trying something new. I mean before D3 released if someone told you we would see a Diablo game with No skill trees, pvp or trading what would you have said?
Have you guys played the console version? If so you know with hardly any effort you get every damn legendary and set item you need. Now that we know rare legend and set items will be BiS in RoS i highly doubt they will be hard to find.
This is what my fear is. I don't want OMFGodly items mashed up and spoon fed to me all day long.
I mean before D3 released if someone told you we would see a Diablo game with No skill trees, pvp or trading what would you have said?
What would I have said? I would've said most of my old D2 buddies wouldn't play that game......and I would've been right.
Have you guys played the console version? If so you know with hardly any effort you get every damn legendary and set item you need. Now that we know rare legend and set items will be BiS in RoS i highly doubt they will be hard to find.
This is what my fear is. I don't want OMFGodly items mashed up and spoon fed to me all day long.
Isn't that how it is now with AH?
I kinda doubt godly items will drop all the time. Just because legendaries will drop often, it hardly means they will always be perfect.
But it is something Blizzard should answer. When greatly increasing droprates, how do they plan to offer progress 6 months or 12 months down the road?
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Agreed, I understand the whole rng angle but personally I cant think of a lv60+ leg that I havn't found at least once. They're increasing the legendary drop rates by 6 times, drastically lowering the roll ranges, they'll be easy enough to find.
Top 10 Solo Wizard Leaderboard - North America
Highest: Rank 6 // Greater Rift 42 12m40s
Even if they only have Legendaries that are the top ilvls (ilvl 71, 72,73?) be BOA but ilvl 70 and below are tradeable... that could be a small compromise
Although Diablo is not a PvP game, some want to have the best character they can possibly have and that sort of creates a weird competition..
Some may not give a shit... some do..
And for those that do they feel it is lame that players can just Pay to get the best items rather than Play..
I don't mind BOA if it provides the same solution for what the AH was for in part: stopping Bot spaming in games and 3rd party sites/unsafe trading enviroments
Not sure, but Blizz should consider Clan trades. It wouldn't betray Blizzard's intent. Players would still have options for trade. 3rd party sites would wither. Scammers and botters would reel.
This could encourage people to participate in Clan membership, as well as strengthen Clan play. Heretofore....we could have a viable manner of unloading great drops for classes we don't play, to trade with friends for items/gold/mats we do want/need.
That being said, I think 2 hours is a bit of a small window. Blizz may want to rethink the time frame.
Sounds to me like a good even ground may be a clan trading system?
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
You don't think they affect you, but they do. You are in a multiplayer environment, everything concerning items can affect you unless you play in a bubble and never join a game with another player. Even playing a game with someone that has traded outside themselves gives you an advantage you probably don't think much about. I can pontificate further or list other examples if you'd like?
Top 10 Solo Wizard Leaderboard - North America
Highest: Rank 6 // Greater Rift 42 12m40s
Top 10 Solo Wizard Leaderboard - North America
Highest: Rank 6 // Greater Rift 42 12m40s
Myself and Maka already do that. With these proposed changes, we wouldn't be able to help each other out. Not sure how that makes a better player experience?
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
Many people might enjoy self-imposed limitations to enhance their experiences and that is okay, but it should not be the basis for creating proper balance. The game still has to set a precedent by imposing its own boundaries.
Top 10 Solo Wizard Leaderboard - North America
Highest: Rank 6 // Greater Rift 42 12m40s
Not true at all, This only works in game with direct competition against one another. In Diablo there's no competition between players other than the minimal PVP'ing available and even then by the time real PVP comes out hopefully they'll have a matchmaking system in place that takes into account gear tiers as well as skill. In Diablo you're constantly competing against yourself to one-up your own gear, but the problem with no trading at all is that it reduces the amount of availability by far too much. There has to be minimal trading between players. If there's next to no availability of items then you could go years without seeing an item or achieving that perfect set that you want to base your build around, I'm not saying we shouldn't have to work for it but if I find 5 Mempo's and I'm looking for a Tals I should be able to say "Hey, I got this badass Mempo, and you got that badass Tal's wanna trade?" Having this scenario completely eliminated is absolutely ridiculous, and everyone saying "oh you can trade with the people in the game yeah for a 'Limited amount of time'" well what about if no one gets Tals in my game and I get the mempo in that game, then I am just shit out of luck again? Come on that's not a good solution for me.
GREAT.
Another example. Legendaries are tradeable. Over the course of a few months these legendaries flood the market and everyone has amazing gear that nobody actually found themselves. You don't personally trade, because you choose not to, and you blindly tell yourself that it doesn't affect you at all what other players do! Well, when you play with those players who benefitted from trading in an oversaturated market, monsters die quicker in your game and you indirectly benefit.
Another examples. Gems. Hardly anyone has ever actually made their own radiant star gems by picking them up and creating the gems themselves, but many people still tend to have full sets somehow. Those players join your game and kill monsters faster, which in turn you benefit from.
So, to thereby say that what happens in the global market doesn't affect you is a ridiculous claim. The only way it couldn't is if you don't play with anyone, but then why would you care about trading in the first place?
Top 10 Solo Wizard Leaderboard - North America
Highest: Rank 6 // Greater Rift 42 12m40s
D3 is dupe free.
This will always be a game of the haves and the have nots. Only, some trade aspect for end game gears offers players some pliability.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
You can't be serious?
Even if you are and that was actually true, the point still stands. What happens in the global economy affects you all the time when you play with others.
Top 10 Solo Wizard Leaderboard - North America
Highest: Rank 6 // Greater Rift 42 12m40s
There is no dupe method. Only customer service scams. You can't make millions of items using that scam, maybe 8 or 10.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
It's still a hypothetical regardless. It is easy to transition the argument to other ways the global market indirectly affect every person that plays with almost any other player. You may choose to play D3 "your way" but what is going on around you still takes a toll on your experience, because what others are doing influences you when you play with them.
So if the market is overflooded with tradable and easily acquired legendaries when you play with them you are affected by that when they kill stuff quicker than they otherwise would be. You gain faster experience and more items as a result.
Top 10 Solo Wizard Leaderboard - North America
Highest: Rank 6 // Greater Rift 42 12m40s
As shocking as this is - I say give it a chance and consider it. None of us have experienced the new loot system in RoS. And they have been saying that they want you to find your stuff by killing monsters, not trading.
In the Gamescom Loot 2.0 breakdown, Josh said that in a regular run in act 3 with a paragon level 40 character they averaged 6 legendary items.
Its not the same game. So with respect to the folks that are saying "if I can't get a mempo, than that's not fair" should really reflect on this. Chances are simply higher that you might find one now with their new system - that they've been talking about for a long time now.
Not being able to fill up a mule with cool legendaries that i can trade/sell is a big break from the Diablo experience. Having a mule with legendaries that I can use on my other classes and perhaps get motivated to roll a new character seems to be on the mark for a Diablo game.
Give it a chance.
Monkalicious: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/OptimusPrime-12194/hero/79139477
Honestly i'll give it to blizzard for trying something new. I mean before D3 released if someone told you we would see a Diablo game with No skill trees, pvp or trading what would you have said?
This is what my fear is. I don't want OMFGodly items mashed up and spoon fed to me all day long.
What would I have said? I would've said most of my old D2 buddies wouldn't play that game......and I would've been right.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
I kinda doubt godly items will drop all the time. Just because legendaries will drop often, it hardly means they will always be perfect.
But it is something Blizzard should answer. When greatly increasing droprates, how do they plan to offer progress 6 months or 12 months down the road?