I am 100% for this randomization of runes. It will allow us to try new things we would never have tried without it. If we already knew what a rune would do, we would find that rune we want, and never try anything else... now we'll have to "look" for that elusive rune that we want... I LOVE IT! I REALLY REALLY HOPE THIS GETS IMPLEMENTED.
I am 100% for this randomization of runes. It will allow us to try new things we would never have tried without it. If we already knew what a rune would do, we would find that rune we want, and never try anything else... now we'll have to "look" for that elusive rune that we want... I LOVE IT! I REALLY REALLY HOPE THIS GETS IMPLEMENTED.
I'm for this great idea... doing this randomization will enable players to keep on playing and not rush the game because they have something to sought for. It will be a way for Blizzard to make sure, people will be playing the game for a long time in years to come. Since the high ranked runes would ever be elusive, players who want more will not stop advancing through the game after they beat the Normal difficulty level of the game. They will go on playing the game through Nightmare, through Hell and be really prepared to face the Demons if there is really a secret level Inferno.
I really, really, really hope that this gets implemented. d(>w<)b
During the Q&A session with lead game designer Jay Wilson at Blizzard HQ Thursday, we were treated to a fairly lengthy discussion about the Skill Runes system. Evidently, runes will not come into play during the Beta test, which led a participant to ask when we’ll see them. Jay responded that Runes will first start dropping in Act II Normal and mentioned that Skill Runes were the only major game system that still had significant revision coming its way. This statement opened the floodgates on a new Rune system that they're hoping they can get into the game. Before I get into the specifics, Jay wanted us to mention:
Official Blizzard Quote:
By the way, this is all theory; we haven’t put this in yet, so this is the way we think we’re going to go, but it’s not solidified. So keep that in mind when you report on it, make sure you say “this is theory,” but I feel like it’s theory worth sharing, especially with the fan community… We haven’t tried it out yet. So it might suck. I’m gonna put that caveat out there, but that’s the one thing we still want to try with that system, and if it works, we’ll keep it. If it doesn’t, then the system works pretty well as it is.
Overall, this theory of Blizzard’s isn’t particularly earth-shattering. Runes will still be placed in skills to alter their functionality in the same way we’re used to. They’ll still be item drops off of monsters, but the team didn’t think that Runes felt like items in the classic Diablo sense. There was no variation, no randomization. A given Rune-Skill combination always produced the same result, so long as the level of the Rune was constant. In addition to this, when moused over, the UI for Runes simply displayed the effect it had on each of your active skills. During the internal alpha testing, they found that this became a nightmare point of comparison and, after a while, just got to be frustrating for the players.
To rectify these issues, they came up with the idea of having Runes drop “unattuned.” This basically means that when a Rune drops, it’s just plain and grey and doesn’t have any specific effect on your skills. Once you socket the rune into your skill, however, it becomes attuned to that skill, providing it a bonus based on the Rune type that it randomly rolls. In addition, they are considering adding an additional random stat bonus – much like the charm system of the now-scrapped Talisman – to attuned Runes. Bashiok had this to say about the new system:
Official Blizzard Quote:
Personally, I love it, and hope it finds a way in.
I'm not so sure about rolling to see which rune effect you get (it could still work), but I *love* the idea of random affixes. That you could have a end-rank rune for the skill you want, with the effect you want, but you still don't have ideal stats on it. That just makes the min/max item hunt that much cooler, and makes runes more important than... "Oh, I found another Crimson rune. Great. /salvage"
These features combine to add an air of randomness, familiar with most Diablo loot, to Skill Runes as well. Skill Runes of equal level can vary significantly from one to another, and high-stat or “Perfect” Runes will likely become incredibly valuable. On the other hand, if you socket a Rune into a skill and don’t get what you want out of it, they hope that it feels much more like any other piece of loot that drops that you don’t want and not like a let-down or a waste of a Rune (especially considering that Rune might be valuable to another player with a different build or playstyle).
Another difference from the current system is that when Runes are removed from skills, they will remain attuned to that skill. In the old system, if you removed a Rune from a skill, you could easily place that same Rune into a different skill to reap its benefits there. Not so with the new system. So, for example, if you put an unattuned Rune into your Magic Missiles and it rolls an Indigo effect (which adds additional missiles per rank), if you later decide to take that Rune out, it will forever remain a Magic Missile splitting Rune, unusable in any other skill. Even this isn't completely set in stone though, as they've hinted that they might add a functionality to the Mystic to wipe effects off Runes.
This proposed system would also play into the new skill system. Since skills are now freely swappable, they felt they needed a soft mechanism to encourage the player to focus on their favorite skills rather than swapping them out for whichever skill was preferable for a given situation. The fact that Runes are permanently attuned to a specific skill as soon as they are socketed in that skill accomplishes this. Although Jay described Rank 1 Runes as “candy that you can throw out and experiment with all you want,” higher rank Runes will be much more precious. Socketing high-rank Runes into a skill will represent an investment in that skill, hopefully discouraging the player from swapping it out for another on a whim.
While the core mechanic of Runes would remain unchanged in this new system, Runes - especially high-level ones - will become a much more valuable commodity. Since each Rune is permanently attuned to a single skill, they will be much more build-specific and, with random stats, highly sought after Runes will be far more difficult to obtain. What do you think? Do you like the sound of this proposed new system or are you happy with Skill Runes the way they are?
I would like to know if Blizzard is considering adding prefix/suffixes to the Runes (e.g. 'Sorcerer's Crimson Rune of the Mind')? Side note, wouldn't it be awesome to have just a few Unique (okay, now they are called 'Legendary') runes (e.g. ('Bashiok's Prism') with some truly insane affixes?
You know, if the Runes were first announced with the same functionality that they have now, everyone would be happy. I personally like the new system. A lot. It makes a lot of sense. The only thing is, is will it cost gold to take runes out of your skills? If so, gold has just become quite a bit more worthy.
And it won't take long before the AH (gold or real money) will start filling up with rolled runes. You'll be able to find the runes you're looking for within the first few months of playing. Sure, they may not be Rank 7 or "perfect", but you'll find the ones you're looking for. Unless a certain one is OP at the time.
Another thing, is the affixes. I love this idea. If the affixes can be amongst many of different possibilities, builds are going to get REALLY deep, and the search for the absolute perfect rune will keep you playing. Such as a 415% ED BotD in D2.
I don't think that it will make things too complicated, I just think you will have to know what you're trying to achieve. I doubt you're going to break your build with a few affixes that aren't completely perfect. But if you want to get the most out of your desired build, then you will have to pursue the best stats.
It's up to YOU if you want to be absolutely perfect or not. It's not going to ruin your playing experience.
So, I finally think I understand this theoretical system. And I have to say at first I wasn't that sure about it (I wasn't ever against it - just hesitant), but now it sounds quite good. While I love the idea of skill binding the runes, I'm still not fully on board with the lottery of socketing a rune to find out what color it is. However, giving the Mystic functionality to wipe runes is a great solution. At any rate, it seems like the runes could be one of the best markets on the AH - even above gear, in my opinion.
I am actually really interested in this system and hope they at least give it a shot. People are already complaining like there isn't enough customization and this is one of those things that would really make people spend time to try and perfect their characters. Also, like mentioned in the post this would keep people from swapping skills 24/7 and also break that argument that free respecs give the game less customization (Which it doesn't either way.) Overall I would love to see this implemented and I believe it would give many players that "Perfect" item feeling (Like back in d2 when you got your first perfect Arreats or Eth Titans.)
There aren't skill points, but there are skills. Now we simply pick the skills and they automatically level up for us?
Basically, your character has access to all his/her class skills. However, you can only actively use 6 of those skills at a time. Choosing those 6 skills from your pool of skills (I believe each class has 24) is the essence of building your character. Your skills will then scale either with level (which is really no different from D2, except that in D2 when you leveled up, you got a skill point to increase your skills. Now it's just automatic. Think of it as the game spending your skill point for you, except that it can put a point in all of your skills instead of just one.) or based on weapon damage. Your attributes will further increase the effectiveness of your skills.
There are runes but the explanation of what they want to do with them doesn't make any sense.
What is it that you're confused about?
Right, and the fact that you had to explain to me that the game spends my points for me (thanks, I really enjoy automatized) is a needless complexity.
It's easier to say "You level up, you get a point, you spend the point in what you want and then you can find runes which modify your skills" than it is to say "You can choose X number of skills and you get no points and then there are these runes that you can put in your skills to modify them but they're locked in to the skill you put it in but you can take them out."
That's where the confusion is. There's needless complexity in a system that isn't complex, and it's foreign to both Diablo and the genre.
ETA: In the search for simplicity they've made something completely foreign and alien.
Whoa dude. Go have a beer, sit down, close your eyes for a few mins, and then get back to thinking about diablo or whatever.
The descriptions given weren't crystal clear, but I think the system JW was hoping would get in would be a good one.
Think of runes as acting like charms in d2, except you've got a 6 slot box that can only hold charms. Ok, so that covers the stat bonuses.
From what JW said, it sounded like the stat bonuses applied to your character, rather than the spell. I could have misinterpretted that. Either way it doesn't really matter. Either you or that skill have a bonus just for having ANY rune in that skill.
Ok, so now we go for the rune effect. It seemed to me like JW never said that the effect was randomized and that sixen (was it sixen? i'm terrible with voice recognition without a face to put to it) thought the effect of the rune was randomized while it SEEMED like JW was only referring to the bonuses being randomized. I think they were talking passed each other a bit.
Even if the particular effect is randomized, you'll have about a 20% chance of getting the right effect (there are about 5 different rune effects right?) and then you can worry about stats after that.
I'm assuming that's the perspective most players will take as it would seem the effect has a bigger impact than however many point bonus the rune would give.
With a high level rune (lets say lvl 7 is the highest, i dunno where i'm getting that from) all i'll REALLY be looking for is the right effect until i have all my skills with a lvl 7 rune with the right effect. Once i have that i'll start worrying about stats.
Really, runes are just small charms+. they're not foreign or alien, but another mechanic to allow for character and playstyle customization.
I don't think you have runes right.
Runes fundamentally modify your skills.
All I'm saying is that this system is weird. It seems arbitrary.
ETA: Runes in this game are going to have the same problem as last game. Incredibly rare runes are going to drop incredibly rarely. Zod, etc.
I actually think this is a very good idea. This actually seems more Diablo-like than the original rune system, and gives the feeling of a risk when using these. It also gives the same feel as runewords in Diablo 2 in that once you socket it, you get get a perfect BO CTA which could be worth a fortune and could help you out a lot or it could become completely worthless. Same with these, if you take a level 7 runestone and socket it and find that while it is a level 7 crimson rune, it only increases damage by 2, and then you cry a little on the inside, and then you find another rune, and it turns out that its another crimson level 7 rune, but this time it gives you 200 damage and then you don't sleep that night because of the ecstasy and all you can think about is your new rune that makes you a complete and utter boss. Its actually sort of like charms too, people say it will become too confusing and people wont know whats good, but in D2 charms were completely random and nobody knew what a good charm was, and it wasn't until later that people realized that this poison charm was the best and was completely amazing or that this charm was a massive life giver and was worth a ton (I had a barb friend who had about 50 hr's worth of health small charms completely filling his inventory). When I first heard about it I was a little upset because I liked the original idea, but after thinking about it for awhile i think this would be very good too. And like they said if this idea doesn't work they can always resort to the original idea which in itself is also good. That is just my opinion though and i can see how others could not find this appealing.
Right, and the fact that you had to explain to me that the game spends my points for me (thanks, I really enjoy automatized) is a needless complexity.
It's easier to say "You level up, you get a point, you spend the point in what you want and then you can find runes which modify your skills" than it is to say "You can choose X number of skills and you get no points and then there are these runes that you can put in your skills to modify them but they're locked in to the skill you put it in but you can take them out."
That's where the confusion is. There's needless complexity in a system that isn't complex, and it's foreign to both Diablo and the genre.
I guess I have to disagree. The process of gaining a level, which awards you a skill point, which you then have to choose between 24 possible choices on where to spend it, and then actually manually, physically doing so is actually quite a bit more complicated than "as you level up, you get stronger." That's how the system works. The higher your level, the stronger your skills. How is that needlessly complex?
The 6-Skill cap is there to create and encourage build diversity. Diablo 3 (like its predecessor) is a game largely built on character customization. Passive Skills, Runes, attributes & itemization, etc. all play into this as well. Having customization systems with depth is what this game is all about. It may be difficult to grasp the concepts since we're all on the outside looking in, but I think once you're actually playing the game, it will make much more sense and your feeling that all these systems are "needlessly complex" will be out the window. They may be complex, but it's certainly not needless. It's the heart of the game.
I see both sides. It initially feels like it will be a grind to find a specific desired rune. But combined with the fact that you don't have to fight for dropped items and there is a great AH to sell/find runes, I think it will not only be a blast to hunt for them but it won't be as tedious as it seems.
IMO- for the people who love the aspect of interchangeable skill on the fly and for the people who desire a more concrete way of building a characters identity, this rune system seems to be a solid middle ground. I support it.
So, for example, if you put an unattuned Rune into your Magic Missiles and it rolls an Indigo effect (which adds additional missiles per rank), if you later decide to take that Rune out, it will forever remain a Magic Missile splitting Rune, unusable in any other skill. Even this isn't completely set in stone though, as they've hinted that they might add a functionality to the Mystic to wipe effects off Runes.
Wont we be able to wipe effects over and over again until we get the perfect effects?
If it costs money and I'm feeling particularly unlucky one night and I need a crimson rune but it rolls an alabaster so I wipe for 10g (or whatever) it becomes an alabaster again, damn, another 10g to the enchanter, damn, gold, close but still not crimson, another 10g, alabaster again, wtf? 10g again, I NEED A DAMN CRIMSON.. I know its not that common, but there are 5 runes and there is a 20% of getting what you want each 'attunement' and sometimes it can be frustrating and costly. If it doesn't cost anything to unattune then that would be great and it would probably work out in my favor.
And you might say 'well, nox you can say the same thing about drop rates, you might need a crimson but the monsters keeping dropping golds and obsidians'. and that's true but 1- they might make certain monsters have a higher chance of dropping certain rune colors so you can specifically farm those guys, if not 2- having that rune in your hand and not having it turn into that crimson is A LOT more frustrating than just not finding one, having something so close yet so far is worse than not having it at all. but like I said, if its free or really cheap it might work out better as I won't have to search for one of every color and just reattune that one rune and just hope it what I want when I want it.
But my final words are REALLY not looking forward to the unattuned runes and though I find that random stat affixes will only drive people nuts finding the 'perfect' rune.
PS on a side note just realized that if they add both new features I hope a reattuning doesn't remove both the stat affix along with the rune type, say I get a perfect affix but the wrong rune I can just reattune just hoping for the correct rune type instead of shooting for a correct affix AS WELL (like I said there is a 20% of getting a correct rune which is something manageable when playing the slots but if they have MINIMUM 5 affixes that's another 20% so its 20% for the rune type AND 20% on the rune affix so that can become a real hell, and the number of affixes are more than that making it a lot harder to 'randomly' get that exact rune type AND affix). If anyone talks on the official forum can they please ask this question for me? Thanks
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I agree with feminism. I don't think that it's right that for every dollar a man makes, a women gets 70 cents. Why do I only get 30 cents and some chick gets the rest?
Right, and the fact that you had to explain to me that the game spends my points for me (thanks, I really enjoy automatized) is a needless complexity.
It's easier to say "You level up, you get a point, you spend the point in what you want and then you can find runes which modify your skills" than it is to say "You can choose X number of skills and you get no points and then there are these runes that you can put in your skills to modify them but they're locked in to the skill you put it in but you can take them out."
That's where the confusion is. There's needless complexity in a system that isn't complex, and it's foreign to both Diablo and the genre.
I guess I have to disagree. The process of gaining a level, which awards you a skill point, which you then have to choose between 24 possible choices on where to spend it, and then actually manually, physically doing so is actually quite a bit more complicated than "as you level up, you get stronger." That's how the system works. The higher your level, the stronger your skills. How is that needlessly complex?
The 6-Skill cap is there to create and encourage build diversity. Diablo 3 (like its predecessor) is a game largely built on character customization. Passive Skills, Runes, attributes & itemization, etc. all play into this as well. Having customization systems with depth is what this game is all about. It may be difficult to grasp the concepts since we're all on the outside looking in, but I think once you're actually playing the game, it will make much more sense and your feeling that all these systems are "needlessly complex" will be out the window. They may be complex, but it's actually a necessity for the game.
I don't know.
To me, there is nothing simpler than having a point to spend when you level up.
To me, there is nothing more boring than a game like Final Fantasy where, when my character levels up, he automatically gets stronger, but not how I want them to.
The next step is simple. What's the point of having levels since everything is automated for you? Why not increment your abilities based on what part of the game you're at? Since we're going to be max level around the time we hit the end of the game, why not just remove levels and then every time we hit a rebirth fountain (or whatever they're called) we get stronger?
What is the point of the leveling system without the ability to choose how you want your character to be stronger?
ETA: In the search for simplicity they've made something completely foreign and alien.
Whoa dude. Go have a beer, sit down, close your eyes for a few mins, and then get back to thinking about diablo or whatever.
The descriptions given weren't crystal clear, but I think the system JW was hoping would get in would be a good one.
Think of runes as acting like charms in d2, except you've got a 6 slot box that can only hold charms. Ok, so that covers the stat bonuses.
From what JW said, it sounded like the stat bonuses applied to your character, rather than the spell. I could have misinterpretted that. Either way it doesn't really matter. Either you or that skill have a bonus just for having ANY rune in that skill.
Ok, so now we go for the rune effect. It seemed to me like JW never said that the effect was randomized and that sixen (was it sixen? i'm terrible with voice recognition without a face to put to it) thought the effect of the rune was randomized while it SEEMED like JW was only referring to the bonuses being randomized. I think they were talking passed each other a bit.
Even if the particular effect is randomized, you'll have about a 20% chance of getting the right effect (there are about 5 different rune effects right?) and then you can worry about stats after that.
I'm assuming that's the perspective most players will take as it would seem the effect has a bigger impact than however many point bonus the rune would give.
With a high level rune (lets say lvl 7 is the highest, i dunno where i'm getting that from) all i'll REALLY be looking for is the right effect until i have all my skills with a lvl 7 rune with the right effect. Once i have that i'll start worrying about stats.
Really, runes are just small charms+. they're not foreign or alien, but another mechanic to allow for character and playstyle customization.
I don't think you have runes right.
Runes fundamentally modify your skills.
All I'm saying is that this system is weird. It seems arbitrary.
ETA: Runes in this game are going to have the same problem as last game. Incredibly rare runes are going to drop incredibly rarely. Zod, etc.
Comparing runes to zod is silly because you are ignoring the Mystic rerolling the level 7 rune as many times as you have gold which is much easier to find than another lvl7 rune.
ETA: In the search for simplicity they've made something completely foreign and alien.
Whoa dude. Go have a beer, sit down, close your eyes for a few mins, and then get back to thinking about diablo or whatever.
The descriptions given weren't crystal clear, but I think the system JW was hoping would get in would be a good one.
Think of runes as acting like charms in d2, except you've got a 6 slot box that can only hold charms. Ok, so that covers the stat bonuses.
From what JW said, it sounded like the stat bonuses applied to your character, rather than the spell. I could have misinterpretted that. Either way it doesn't really matter. Either you or that skill have a bonus just for having ANY rune in that skill.
Ok, so now we go for the rune effect. It seemed to me like JW never said that the effect was randomized and that sixen (was it sixen? i'm terrible with voice recognition without a face to put to it) thought the effect of the rune was randomized while it SEEMED like JW was only referring to the bonuses being randomized. I think they were talking passed each other a bit.
Even if the particular effect is randomized, you'll have about a 20% chance of getting the right effect (there are about 5 different rune effects right?) and then you can worry about stats after that.
I'm assuming that's the perspective most players will take as it would seem the effect has a bigger impact than however many point bonus the rune would give.
With a high level rune (lets say lvl 7 is the highest, i dunno where i'm getting that from) all i'll REALLY be looking for is the right effect until i have all my skills with a lvl 7 rune with the right effect. Once i have that i'll start worrying about stats.
Really, runes are just small charms+. they're not foreign or alien, but another mechanic to allow for character and playstyle customization.
I don't think you have runes right.
Runes fundamentally modify your skills.
All I'm saying is that this system is weird. It seems arbitrary.
ETA: Runes in this game are going to have the same problem as last game. Incredibly rare runes are going to drop incredibly rarely. Zod, etc.
Comparing runes to zod is silly because you are ignoring the Mystic rerolling the level 7 rune as many times as you have gold which is much easier to find than another lvl7 rune.
I don't think it is. The only people going after Zod runes were min/maxers looking for a specific runeword to compliment their build. The same thing is going to happen with runes where you'll be looking for specific stats with a specific colored rune.
Let's be real. We've played Diablo. How many hours did we spend looking for a specific item and never finding it? The entire game revolves around randomly generated loot. Even unique and rare items have variance in the stats that they can have. We should expect nothing different here.
Expecting to sit there and magically get your rune by paying a merchant money to change it is slightly less absurd than expecting the perfect rune for you to drop. It increases the chances of it happening, but realistically it just won't.
Which is fine, but this is why runes will go unchanged from D2 to D3 in terms of rarity.
ETA: And if they don't then there's a fundamental problem in the longevity of Diablo 3 since the core of character customization is going to revolve almost entirely around drops.
What is the point of the leveling system without the ability to choose how you want your character to be stronger?
You choose how you want your character to be stronger by choosing which skills you use and by choosing which Rune effects you want to place in those skills and choosing when, why, and how to utilize those skills most effectively for the playstyle and build you've chosen.
Why not increment your abilities based on what part of the game you're at? Since we're going to be max level around the time we hit the end of the game, why not just remove levels and then every time we hit a rebirth fountain (or whatever they're called) we get stronger?
The leveling system offers a sense of character progression. If you've defeated Hell difficulty and you decide to go back into a normal game for one reason or another, is your character and all his/her skills supposed to get weaker? What's the point in that? What's the difference between hitting a rebirth fountain and gaining a level? Ignoring the fact that this system would be a nightmare to actually implement into a game for the reasons mentioned above, it devalues the character. A character created 10 seconds ago could be of equivalent power to one created 2 years ago just because they're in the same zone? That doesn't make sense.
What is the point of the leveling system without the ability to choose how you want your character to be stronger?
You choose how you want your character to be stronger by choosing which skills you use and by choosing which Rune effects you want to place in those skills and choosing when, why, and how to utilize those skills most effectively for the playstyle and build you've chosen.
Why not increment your abilities based on what part of the game you're at? Since we're going to be max level around the time we hit the end of the game, why not just remove levels and then every time we hit a rebirth fountain (or whatever they're called) we get stronger?
The leveling system offers a sense of character progression. If you've defeated Hell difficulty and you decide to go back into a normal game for one reason or another, is your character and all his/her skills supposed to get weaker? What's the point in that? What's the difference between hitting a rebirth fountain and gaining a level? Ignoring the fact that this system would be a nightmare to actually implement into a game for the reasons mentioned above, it devalues the character. A character created 10 seconds ago could be of equivalent power to one created 2 years ago just because they're in the same zone? That doesn't make sense.
So, what you're saying is that, if my Barbarian spins around like a whirling dervish, using two weapons at once... he's going to get identical stat gain to a Barbarian who uses huge two handed axes and big, brutal attacks? It doesn't fit thematically and it's an arbitrary decision.
Here's what this system really is. This isn't some next-level game design. This is almost identical to Final Fantasy 1.
ETA: And you still had to make all of the same decisions in Diablo 2 about your character (what skills you were going to use, how you were going to use them, etc) but you also had to consider many more things.
Don't be naive by thinking there's more customization here. There's not.
So, what you're saying is that, if my Barbarian spins around like a whirling dervish, using two weapons at once... he's going to get identical stat gain to a Barbarian who uses huge two handed axes and big, brutal attacks? It doesn't fit thematically and it's an arbitrary decision.
Here's what this system really is. This isn't some next-level game design. This is almost identical to Final Fantasy 1.
ETA: And you still had to make all of the same decisions in Diablo 2 about your character (what skills you were going to use, how you were going to use them, etc) but you also had to consider many more things.
Don't be naive by thinking there's more customization here. There's not.
It wouldn't fit thematically in D2. Attributes in D3 have been fundamentally changed. They no longer represent your character in a physical sense. There's no Strength or Dexterity. Regardless of what weapons your Barbarian is using, he's going to want more Attack (to increase his damage) and Precision (to increase his crit chance). So yes, they'll both get identical stat gains. And it fits thematically.
Quote from Jay Wilson »
Our combat system is really based around having somewhere between 4-6 skills.
Diablo 3 isn't a game where spamming one skill all the time and (maybe) having a backup in case of immunities is going to fly. Don't be naive by thinking that D2's customization depth was particularly immense. It was visionary for its time.
As much as i like the original system, this sounds awesome to me, I hope it's the system they choose. And it won't be overly restricting if by chance the mystic can remove rune effects, and even if he can't then it still sounds good anyway imo
Good to see some nice directions being taken by blizzard, good work guys
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I'm for this great idea... doing this randomization will enable players to keep on playing and not rush the game because they have something to sought for. It will be a way for Blizzard to make sure, people will be playing the game for a long time in years to come. Since the high ranked runes would ever be elusive, players who want more will not stop advancing through the game after they beat the Normal difficulty level of the game. They will go on playing the game through Nightmare, through Hell and be really prepared to face the Demons if there is really a secret level Inferno.
I really, really, really hope that this gets implemented. d(>w<)b
My PvP build would be different from these 13.
Check out the leaked Demon Hunter skill list here from Blizzard China: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://tiny.cc/10p16
Diablo III is $50; MSI GT683DXR-423US Gaming Laptop is $1,599; Playing Diablo III w/ my wife & 2 brothers is PRICELESS
I would like to know if Blizzard is considering adding prefix/suffixes to the Runes (e.g. 'Sorcerer's Crimson Rune of the Mind')? Side note, wouldn't it be awesome to have just a few Unique (okay, now they are called 'Legendary') runes (e.g. ('Bashiok's Prism') with some truly insane affixes?
And it won't take long before the AH (gold or real money) will start filling up with rolled runes. You'll be able to find the runes you're looking for within the first few months of playing. Sure, they may not be Rank 7 or "perfect", but you'll find the ones you're looking for. Unless a certain one is OP at the time.
Another thing, is the affixes. I love this idea. If the affixes can be amongst many of different possibilities, builds are going to get REALLY deep, and the search for the absolute perfect rune will keep you playing. Such as a 415% ED BotD in D2.
I don't think that it will make things too complicated, I just think you will have to know what you're trying to achieve. I doubt you're going to break your build with a few affixes that aren't completely perfect. But if you want to get the most out of your desired build, then you will have to pursue the best stats.
It's up to YOU if you want to be absolutely perfect or not. It's not going to ruin your playing experience.
Right, and the fact that you had to explain to me that the game spends my points for me (thanks, I really enjoy automatized) is a needless complexity.
It's easier to say "You level up, you get a point, you spend the point in what you want and then you can find runes which modify your skills" than it is to say "You can choose X number of skills and you get no points and then there are these runes that you can put in your skills to modify them but they're locked in to the skill you put it in but you can take them out."
That's where the confusion is. There's needless complexity in a system that isn't complex, and it's foreign to both Diablo and the genre.
I don't think you have runes right.
Runes fundamentally modify your skills.
All I'm saying is that this system is weird. It seems arbitrary.
ETA: Runes in this game are going to have the same problem as last game. Incredibly rare runes are going to drop incredibly rarely. Zod, etc.
TL;DR version:
i liek dis ideaz
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I guess I have to disagree. The process of gaining a level, which awards you a skill point, which you then have to choose between 24 possible choices on where to spend it, and then actually manually, physically doing so is actually quite a bit more complicated than "as you level up, you get stronger." That's how the system works. The higher your level, the stronger your skills. How is that needlessly complex?
The 6-Skill cap is there to create and encourage build diversity. Diablo 3 (like its predecessor) is a game largely built on character customization. Passive Skills, Runes, attributes & itemization, etc. all play into this as well. Having customization systems with depth is what this game is all about. It may be difficult to grasp the concepts since we're all on the outside looking in, but I think once you're actually playing the game, it will make much more sense and your feeling that all these systems are "needlessly complex" will be out the window. They may be complex, but it's certainly not needless. It's the heart of the game.
IMO- for the people who love the aspect of interchangeable skill on the fly and for the people who desire a more concrete way of building a characters identity, this rune system seems to be a solid middle ground. I support it.
If it costs money and I'm feeling particularly unlucky one night and I need a crimson rune but it rolls an alabaster so I wipe for 10g (or whatever) it becomes an alabaster again, damn, another 10g to the enchanter, damn, gold, close but still not crimson, another 10g, alabaster again, wtf? 10g again, I NEED A DAMN CRIMSON.. I know its not that common, but there are 5 runes and there is a 20% of getting what you want each 'attunement' and sometimes it can be frustrating and costly. If it doesn't cost anything to unattune then that would be great and it would probably work out in my favor.
And you might say 'well, nox you can say the same thing about drop rates, you might need a crimson but the monsters keeping dropping golds and obsidians'. and that's true but 1- they might make certain monsters have a higher chance of dropping certain rune colors so you can specifically farm those guys, if not 2- having that rune in your hand and not having it turn into that crimson is A LOT more frustrating than just not finding one, having something so close yet so far is worse than not having it at all. but like I said, if its free or really cheap it might work out better as I won't have to search for one of every color and just reattune that one rune and just hope it what I want when I want it.
But my final words are REALLY not looking forward to the unattuned runes and though I find that random stat affixes will only drive people nuts finding the 'perfect' rune.
PS on a side note just realized that if they add both new features I hope a reattuning doesn't remove both the stat affix along with the rune type, say I get a perfect affix but the wrong rune I can just reattune just hoping for the correct rune type instead of shooting for a correct affix AS WELL (like I said there is a 20% of getting a correct rune which is something manageable when playing the slots but if they have MINIMUM 5 affixes that's another 20% so its 20% for the rune type AND 20% on the rune affix so that can become a real hell, and the number of affixes are more than that making it a lot harder to 'randomly' get that exact rune type AND affix). If anyone talks on the official forum can they please ask this question for me? Thanks
I don't know.
To me, there is nothing simpler than having a point to spend when you level up.
To me, there is nothing more boring than a game like Final Fantasy where, when my character levels up, he automatically gets stronger, but not how I want them to.
The next step is simple. What's the point of having levels since everything is automated for you? Why not increment your abilities based on what part of the game you're at? Since we're going to be max level around the time we hit the end of the game, why not just remove levels and then every time we hit a rebirth fountain (or whatever they're called) we get stronger?
What is the point of the leveling system without the ability to choose how you want your character to be stronger?
Comparing runes to zod is silly because you are ignoring the Mystic rerolling the level 7 rune as many times as you have gold which is much easier to find than another lvl7 rune.
I don't think it is. The only people going after Zod runes were min/maxers looking for a specific runeword to compliment their build. The same thing is going to happen with runes where you'll be looking for specific stats with a specific colored rune.
Let's be real. We've played Diablo. How many hours did we spend looking for a specific item and never finding it? The entire game revolves around randomly generated loot. Even unique and rare items have variance in the stats that they can have. We should expect nothing different here.
Expecting to sit there and magically get your rune by paying a merchant money to change it is slightly less absurd than expecting the perfect rune for you to drop. It increases the chances of it happening, but realistically it just won't.
Which is fine, but this is why runes will go unchanged from D2 to D3 in terms of rarity.
ETA: And if they don't then there's a fundamental problem in the longevity of Diablo 3 since the core of character customization is going to revolve almost entirely around drops.
You choose how you want your character to be stronger by choosing which skills you use and by choosing which Rune effects you want to place in those skills and choosing when, why, and how to utilize those skills most effectively for the playstyle and build you've chosen.
The leveling system offers a sense of character progression. If you've defeated Hell difficulty and you decide to go back into a normal game for one reason or another, is your character and all his/her skills supposed to get weaker? What's the point in that? What's the difference between hitting a rebirth fountain and gaining a level? Ignoring the fact that this system would be a nightmare to actually implement into a game for the reasons mentioned above, it devalues the character. A character created 10 seconds ago could be of equivalent power to one created 2 years ago just because they're in the same zone? That doesn't make sense.
So, what you're saying is that, if my Barbarian spins around like a whirling dervish, using two weapons at once... he's going to get identical stat gain to a Barbarian who uses huge two handed axes and big, brutal attacks? It doesn't fit thematically and it's an arbitrary decision.
Here's what this system really is. This isn't some next-level game design. This is almost identical to Final Fantasy 1.
ETA: And you still had to make all of the same decisions in Diablo 2 about your character (what skills you were going to use, how you were going to use them, etc) but you also had to consider many more things.
Don't be naive by thinking there's more customization here. There's not.
It wouldn't fit thematically in D2. Attributes in D3 have been fundamentally changed. They no longer represent your character in a physical sense. There's no Strength or Dexterity. Regardless of what weapons your Barbarian is using, he's going to want more Attack (to increase his damage) and Precision (to increase his crit chance). So yes, they'll both get identical stat gains. And it fits thematically.
Diablo 3 isn't a game where spamming one skill all the time and (maybe) having a backup in case of immunities is going to fly. Don't be naive by thinking that D2's customization depth was particularly immense. It was visionary for its time.
Good to see some nice directions being taken by blizzard, good work guys