i think they should make it at least possible for followers to join you when there's only 2 players in the game, if they just have to keep the 4 player limit. Im planning to play with a friend or 2 casually, but since everyone's got their own schedule a game with 2 players and no followers just feels a little empty.
btw nothing's mentioned what will happen to them when you go from normal to nightmare and to hell, a new set of followers in each new difficulty like in diablo 2? probably you'll only meet them in normal
I think it would be confusing if you and your friend were starting at the same point in time and doing the same quest and met up with a follower.... or would there have to be 2 followers to interact with. I think though it will be better gaming experience not to have them when playing with humans. That way you would develop better skills and learn to play CO-OP better with your mates.
From what I saw the follower will be the same one from normal to hell, not like choices we have in Diablo 2.
The system seems ideal, especially after the blue post. It's kind of like in Cataclysm starting areas, where in the first few quests, you have an AI friend to give you a hand (thinking specifically of the Troll starting area, Echo Isles and the Level 1 - 6 quests there).
There's a couple of story elements, just enough customization and in terms of co-op gameplay, it's a nice primer.
Hats off to Blizzard, not that we expected any less.
Well, followers are essentially a flavor bonus to those playing through normal the first time by themselves. It provides some story elements, but more importantly it gets the idea in their head of playing with another person. You come across each of them pretty quickly in Act 1, and then they help you throughout the rest of the game if you'd like. They aren't required to beat the game on Normal, even if you're playing by yourself. Feel free to leave them behind if you like. But they are pretty awesome.
They're also tuned so that they become very weak starting in Nightmare, and then are completely unusable in Hell. Even if you're playing alone, you will probably not be using Followers past Normal - - you can try but they're going to just be one-shot back to back. They're there as a bit of flavor, to help get people into the mindset of co-op if they're a bit reluctant, and... that's about it. They won't be usable at end-game, and they'll never replace the abilities and power that another player can bring.
It provides some story elements. That's right. The companion doesn't add any more story than is already provided. Instead, the character adds color to the situation.
Official Blizzard Quote:
Followers will not stay alive easily past Normal, and if they're not alive you aren't going to be getting their bonuses. I'm sure people will try to game this, and ideally they will fail. If not we will ensure followers are not part of the end-game MF equation. They are not intended to be, and we will take whatever steps are necessary to ensure they cannot be.
They're also tuned so that they become very weak starting in Nightmare, and then are completely unusable in Hell.
They are not intended to be, and we will take whatever steps are necessary to ensure they cannot be. In other words, this is JUST A FLAVOR MECHANIC FOR NORMAL DIFFICULTY.
making them only viable for normal, not very much so in nighmare and useless in hell, it seems like a lot of wasted development time. I understand that they probably had to do this for balance issues, or else end game would end up making them mandatory balance wise, but its disappointing none the less.
I think people are underestimating how many people will play solo once in a while. Us solo players (me included) aren't that few, and most people will want to play alone once in a while ;).
I don't think there is any point for followers in 2-player game (you get to do the quests probably anyway, so you won't miss out on any lore). As Bashiok said, they're there for the lone wolfs.
Sanctuary is too small for more than one hero at a time (tm).
I'm with you here. I'll be playing solo about half the time.
I'd like to emphasize another reason why followers are awesome. When you create a new character and your friends don't want to "carry you" through Normal, these companions will make it a little easier to go through and add a little more fun to the mix.
They're also tuned so that they become very weak starting in Nightmare, and then are completely unusable in Hell. Even if you're playing alone, you will probably not be using Followers past Normal - - you can try but they're going to just be one-shot back to back.
Followers will not stay alive easily past Normal, and if they're not alive you aren't going to be getting their bonuses. I'm sure people will try to game this, and ideally they will fail. If not we will ensure followers are not part of the end-game MF equation. They are not intended to be, and we will take whatever steps are necessary to ensure they cannot be.
Okay then I totally do not get the point of worrying about a Follower at all. I'm assuming that the best MF run you can do is in Hell difficulty. So if your Follower dies very easily in this difficulty, than you almost will have to exclusively do MP. I'm sure we can solo a MF run in Hell difficulty, but if they kill Followers this easily, then I would imagine they really do mean that it will be hard for you to go off on your own.
They've stated many times that they are trying to push players into an early mindset of playing Co-op. I did enjoy running MP, but I occasionally liked to go off on my own. I'm wondering how much support there is in the game currently for solo work.
This whole system seems kind of pointless with all the limitations. I don't think anyone will spend much time with them knowing that they will just be underpowered in the next difficulty. If the difficulties are similar to D2, Normal will be the fastest difficulty you get through.
I will probably go with a different follower for 3 of my characters just to get all the story out of them. I don't see myself using them much on any later characters. It's disappointing because it really looks like they spent a lot of time designing this system, but it will barely be used.
I think most players will see the follower once with their first character in Normal difficulty. After that they will probably play multiplayer almost exclusively, because single player has no incentive compared to co-op. This confirms my prediction that Blizzard would not allow 4 players + 4 followers in multiplayer, but so I'm disappointed they would waste time on something like this.
I'm not sure If I really like this system, or if I'm just not all that enthusiastic about it. I think it will be great to have them around in Normal and the lore will be fun to learn about, but will the quests stick around in the higher difficulties? I hope not. I feel like they probably can only hit lvl 30 (when you should be finishing Normal difficulty anyway) so I might carry them over for the first few acts of nightmare, but after that I feel like I will miss them being around. On the other hand, I am The Hero and sometimes the hero just must go alone, which will certainly feel good and powerful. I think I would like them to fulfill some role once out of Normal but what that is, I'm not sure.
I don't feel like it's wasted effort on Blizzards part in any case. did it take time to produce? Yes. Do they add to the game? Yes. No problems there.
I guess I really only have one question. If they augment your character in normal, then when you first drop them, do you feel weaker, or is the transition more or less seamless? The way I suggested I likely would do (taking them through the first act or two) would probably alleviate this problem, but what if you drop them right when you beat the first difficulty? I dunno. I am excited to give them a test run though!
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If that made sense to you, Bravo! I think I even confused myself...
I've been at work so I haven't been able to respond.
The blocked out lvl25 square is for their character specific item like the templar's tomes.
I don't think bashiok meant that they are not viable after normal. Just that they will die more often just as most players will in nightmare and hell difficulty.
I think it's funny that before the announcement a lot of people were complaining about the followers being to OP. Now, people are complaining about them being to weak and pointless. This just shows it's impossible to appease everyone no matter what decision they make. As a primary SP, I'm really excited for this system. If im playing with friends, then who needs followers, I have friends to play with.
While I still think this system does not 'encourage' co-op, I thought what Bash said about getting in the co-op mindset even when playing SP is a very valid point.
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I've been at work so I haven't been able to respond.
The blocked out lvl25 square is for their character specific item like the templar's tomes.
I don't think bashiok meant that they are not viable after normal. Just that they will die more often just as most players will in nightmare and hell difficulty.
I think it's funny that before the announcement a lot of people were complaining about the followers being to OP. Now, people are complaining about them being to weak and pointless. This just shows it's impossible to appease everyone no matter what decision they make. As a primary SP, I'm really excited for this system. If im playing with friends, then who needs followers, I have friends to play with.
While I still think this system does not 'encourage' co-op, I thought what Bash said about getting in the co-op mindset even when playing SP is a very valid point.
If you read Bashiok's quote, followers will basically be one shot in Hell regardless of gear (their base stats/skills won't scale at the same rate as the hero's). Even in single player, you won't really use them in Hell especially since it costs a little bit of gold to revive them each time. No follower will survive long enough to be a benefit for MF, and if it does happen, Blizzard will nerf followers to ensure they can't survive.
My initial thoughts about this now after reading the interview and looking at the screenshots.
I can't wait to hear the followers comments while playing through normal multiple times. What they say isn't "important" to the story. It's more like what the D2 characters used to say upon entering a dungeon or something similar.
Upon reviewing the screenshots. The landscape art in this game looks sick. I also like the skill variety.
I'm sort of happy about the way they did this. I won't be playing alone. Then when I'm online I'll be focusing on team work with my friends, not worrying about what a follower is doing. I also think followers dying a lot easier in nightmare and hell is to encourage online play for better items. Sure you'll be able to solo it, but you'll basically be doing it slower and without any help even from AI.
No where in that quote does it say anything about being one shot in hell. All it says is that they will die more frequently and easier as will all characters that play in a higher difficulty. It only makes sense that they die more often in a harder difficulty. And where does it say it costs to revive them. This is done automatically in the battle field. The only possibility is a dura hit.
If they are involved too much with MF, I don't think they will make them die easier. Just make it so MF gear isn't that viable for them.
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Templar: I'm jealous. I wanted to play a knight archetype, not have it follow me around. I'm worried that this will prevent a knight class from being in an expansion. I could get used to having him around though.
Scoundrel: Star Wars RPG anyone? Interesting. Demon Hunter is enough that I don't feel too jealous. I'm interested in hearing his comments.
Enchantress: Cool. I'm a dude who usually plays as a dude, so I'm less jealous of this one. Could be fun to have around. Prophet storyline seems interesting.
Overall: I like it, although it seems like we're going to have a full entourage following us from place to place. I also do somewhat miss hirelings as they helped us get a feel for what kind of people were living in the town. Still, I like this idea. They better add a bard to my entourage to sing songs of my exploits.
The whole not much help after normal thing doesn't interest me much, as I don't play hell or nightmare really.
I agree with Deathjester, we need more information from Blizzard. It's weird to make such an in depth follower system only to have it for the first half of the game. It makes you feel like time spent customising them is only going to be a waste in the end.
Still, playing through normal the first few times will be special. But I can't help feeling like we'll lose a special friend once we reach nightmare. My one solace is that they might have something else planned for nightmare and hell, and there's always the "end game" content yet to be released. Maybe something that is more multiplayer specific?
@Scyber - Bashiok says they're completely unusable in hell.
I agree with Deathjester, we need more information from Blizzard. It's weird to make such an in depth follower system only to have it for the first half of the game. It makes you feel like time spent customising them is only going to be a waste in the end.
Well you really won't be wasting anything. You can just salvage their gear afterwards, and theres not really any gold costs involved with them. I think people need to stop looking at it from the point of view of it being anything but something to keep people playing single player for the first time (which is really the majority of the people who ever play the game) some company, and to put the idea in their head that the game is better with someone else.
Time, Jackzor. You would spend ages thinking of a build for you character, but not for the followers because they go obsolete. Not worried about the items I am quite aware that you can get them back.
The reason you wouldn't spend ages thinking of a build for a follower is because theres 5 slots composed of 3 skills each. So its simply impossible to take more than a few minutes thinking of what purpose you want them to fill. Want an MF/GF follower? Choose the MF/GF skills. Want a crowd control follower? Choose crowd control skills. With a total of 15 skill choices, most of which aren't interchangeable, theres simply not a lot of possibilities by design.
I think it would be confusing if you and your friend were starting at the same point in time and doing the same quest and met up with a follower.... or would there have to be 2 followers to interact with. I think though it will be better gaming experience not to have them when playing with humans. That way you would develop better skills and learn to play CO-OP better with your mates.
From what I saw the follower will be the same one from normal to hell, not like choices we have in Diablo 2.
So far the game is looking UNBELIEVABLE....
There's a couple of story elements, just enough customization and in terms of co-op gameplay, it's a nice primer.
Hats off to Blizzard, not that we expected any less.
making them only viable for normal, not very much so in nighmare and useless in hell, it seems like a lot of wasted development time. I understand that they probably had to do this for balance issues, or else end game would end up making them mandatory balance wise, but its disappointing none the less.
oops, fixed my post.
I'm with you here. I'll be playing solo about half the time.
I'd like to emphasize another reason why followers are awesome. When you create a new character and your friends don't want to "carry you" through Normal, these companions will make it a little easier to go through and add a little more fun to the mix.
http://us.blizzard.com/diablo3/world/systems/followers.xml
Okay then I totally do not get the point of worrying about a Follower at all. I'm assuming that the best MF run you can do is in Hell difficulty. So if your Follower dies very easily in this difficulty, than you almost will have to exclusively do MP. I'm sure we can solo a MF run in Hell difficulty, but if they kill Followers this easily, then I would imagine they really do mean that it will be hard for you to go off on your own.
They've stated many times that they are trying to push players into an early mindset of playing Co-op. I did enjoy running MP, but I occasionally liked to go off on my own. I'm wondering how much support there is in the game currently for solo work.
Monkalicious: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/OptimusPrime-12194/hero/79139477
I will probably go with a different follower for 3 of my characters just to get all the story out of them. I don't see myself using them much on any later characters. It's disappointing because it really looks like they spent a lot of time designing this system, but it will barely be used.
I think most players will see the follower once with their first character in Normal difficulty. After that they will probably play multiplayer almost exclusively, because single player has no incentive compared to co-op. This confirms my prediction that Blizzard would not allow 4 players + 4 followers in multiplayer, but so I'm disappointed they would waste time on something like this.
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I don't feel like it's wasted effort on Blizzards part in any case. did it take time to produce? Yes. Do they add to the game? Yes. No problems there.
I guess I really only have one question. If they augment your character in normal, then when you first drop them, do you feel weaker, or is the transition more or less seamless? The way I suggested I likely would do (taking them through the first act or two) would probably alleviate this problem, but what if you drop them right when you beat the first difficulty? I dunno. I am excited to give them a test run though!
The blocked out lvl25 square is for their character specific item like the templar's tomes.
I don't think bashiok meant that they are not viable after normal. Just that they will die more often just as most players will in nightmare and hell difficulty.
I think it's funny that before the announcement a lot of people were complaining about the followers being to OP. Now, people are complaining about them being to weak and pointless. This just shows it's impossible to appease everyone no matter what decision they make. As a primary SP, I'm really excited for this system. If im playing with friends, then who needs followers, I have friends to play with.
While I still think this system does not 'encourage' co-op, I thought what Bash said about getting in the co-op mindset even when playing SP is a very valid point.
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If you read Bashiok's quote, followers will basically be one shot in Hell regardless of gear (their base stats/skills won't scale at the same rate as the hero's). Even in single player, you won't really use them in Hell especially since it costs a little bit of gold to revive them each time. No follower will survive long enough to be a benefit for MF, and if it does happen, Blizzard will nerf followers to ensure they can't survive.
I can't wait to hear the followers comments while playing through normal multiple times. What they say isn't "important" to the story. It's more like what the D2 characters used to say upon entering a dungeon or something similar.
Upon reviewing the screenshots. The landscape art in this game looks sick. I also like the skill variety.
I'm sort of happy about the way they did this. I won't be playing alone. Then when I'm online I'll be focusing on team work with my friends, not worrying about what a follower is doing. I also think followers dying a lot easier in nightmare and hell is to encourage online play for better items. Sure you'll be able to solo it, but you'll basically be doing it slower and without any help even from AI.
I'm overall pleased with this.
No where in that quote does it say anything about being one shot in hell. All it says is that they will die more frequently and easier as will all characters that play in a higher difficulty. It only makes sense that they die more often in a harder difficulty. And where does it say it costs to revive them. This is done automatically in the battle field. The only possibility is a dura hit.
If they are involved too much with MF, I don't think they will make them die easier. Just make it so MF gear isn't that viable for them.
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Templar: I'm jealous. I wanted to play a knight archetype, not have it follow me around. I'm worried that this will prevent a knight class from being in an expansion. I could get used to having him around though.
Scoundrel: Star Wars RPG anyone? Interesting. Demon Hunter is enough that I don't feel too jealous. I'm interested in hearing his comments.
Enchantress: Cool. I'm a dude who usually plays as a dude, so I'm less jealous of this one. Could be fun to have around. Prophet storyline seems interesting.
Overall: I like it, although it seems like we're going to have a full entourage following us from place to place. I also do somewhat miss hirelings as they helped us get a feel for what kind of people were living in the town. Still, I like this idea. They better add a bard to my entourage to sing songs of my exploits.
The whole not much help after normal thing doesn't interest me much, as I don't play hell or nightmare really.
Still, playing through normal the first few times will be special. But I can't help feeling like we'll lose a special friend once we reach nightmare. My one solace is that they might have something else planned for nightmare and hell, and there's always the "end game" content yet to be released. Maybe something that is more multiplayer specific?
@Scyber - Bashiok says they're completely unusable in hell.
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