--Edit: It appears that I got ahead of myself here as the unofficial changes colors things a bit. While generally the discipline costs of the DH's skills were lowered, its passives geared towards discipline have been nerfed a bit. Also, a numbers of skills have changed (albeit most of them only slightly) outside the "official" changes. All the changes are listed below... Discuss!
Demonhunter
Night Stalker Now restores 1 Discipline, down from 2
Perfectionist Now reduces cost by 10%, down from 20%
Multishot Now costs 40 Hatred, up from 15 an deals 165% weapon damage, up from 115%
Full Broadside Now increases damage by 215%, up from 150%
Burst Fire Now does 65% weapon damage, up from 45%
Punishment Now restore all Hatred for 25 Discipline up from 20.
Battle Scars You now gain life AFTER instead of "while".
Items
Demon Hunter one-handed Crossbows have received a damage buff
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O.P.:
I'm really excited about the DH so I thought I'd gather everyone's thoughts on patch 16's effects on the class.
The changes are pretty straight forward--decreased discipline costs to Caltrops/Smoke Screen/Vault & a one-handed crossbow buff--but I'd be interested to see what people think considering this will may be the final iteration of DH before launch.
I considered the discp. costs of these skills a tad too high in patch 15. Now Vault and Caltrops-especially coupled with decent regen gear/passives in later gameplay--seem more spammable.
In my mind, it makes a more defensive-oriented (solo player?) DH viable in late game.
Of all the skills, Smokescreen encountered the greatest change. While losing 1 sec of its effect, the ability to both break CC and become immune to CC is huge, especially coupled with a discipline cost decrease. And 10% movement speed can't hurt. I am excited about this skill for the first time.
As for 1-handed crossbow, it remains to be seen how big the buff will be. I can't imagine it will be too large considering most people seem to think the weapon system for DH is pretty balanced already.
The change to multishot actually made me not want to play this class anymore, I was looking forward to multishot as my main aoe attack, but now its not really spammable, and in my opinion she doesn't have any good spammable AoE spells, or they have special mechanics for their AoE - such as Bola shot or Chakram.. and I'm not particularly interested in dealing with special mechanics on AoE skills (*cough* blessed hammer *cough*) so yea, guess I'll be trying out a new class at the start. =(
The lowered discipline costs seems nice, but when you look at the nerfed perfectionist, and night stalker talents you can see that it's probably more of an overall nerf than a buff. I suspect that the combination of perfectionist and night stalker was far too good and they had to nerf it. Instead we got some of that back with the lowered costs, but I think we lost more than we gained. Night stalker alone was extremely good, but now it's "meh". The one-handed crossbow buff was needed. The difference in DPS between the high level 2-handed ranged weapons and the one-handers was far too great a gap imo, but we won't really know until the game goes live to test such things anyway.
The change to multishot actually made me not want to play this class anymore, I was looking forward to multishot as my main aoe attack, but now its not really spammable, and in my opinion she doesn't have any good spammable AoE spells, or they have special mechanics for their AoE - such as Bola shot or Chakram.. and I'm not particularly interested in dealing with special mechanics on AoE skills (*cough* blessed hammer *cough*) so yea, guess I'll be trying out a new class at the start. =(
Multishot: Now costs 40 Hatred, up from 15 an deals 165% weapon damage, up from 115%
The lowered discipline costs seems nice, but when you look at the nerfed perfectionist, and night stalker talents you can see that it's probably more of an overall nerf than a buff. I suspect that the combination of perfectionist and night stalker was far too good and they had to nerf it. Instead we got some of that back with the lowered costs, but I think we lost more than we gained. Night stalker alone was extremely good, but now it's "meh". The one-handed crossbow buff was needed. The difference in DPS between the high level 2-handed ranged weapons and the one-handers was far too great a gap imo, but we won't really know until the game goes live to test such things anyway.
The change to multishot actually made me not want to play this class anymore, I was looking forward to multishot as my main aoe attack, but now its not really spammable, and in my opinion she doesn't have any good spammable AoE spells, or they have special mechanics for their AoE - such as Bola shot or Chakram.. and I'm not particularly interested in dealing with special mechanics on AoE skills (*cough* blessed hammer *cough*) so yea, guess I'll be trying out a new class at the start. =(
The change to multishot actually made me not want to play this class anymore, I was looking forward to multishot as my main aoe attack, but now its not really spammable, and in my opinion she doesn't have any good spammable AoE spells, or they have special mechanics for their AoE - such as Bola shot or Chakram.. and I'm not particularly interested in dealing with special mechanics on AoE skills (*cough* blessed hammer *cough*) so yea, guess I'll be trying out a new class at the start. =(
Another strong AoE is Elemental Arrow, it's cheap enough to be fairly spammable. It doesn't really have a special mechanic, apart from shooting in a straight line through enemies rather than spreading out straight away. Also it can be runed to have a variety of effects.
The change to multishot actually made me not want to play this class anymore, I was looking forward to multishot as my main aoe attack, but now its not really spammable, and in my opinion she doesn't have any good spammable AoE spells, or they have special mechanics for their AoE - such as Bola shot or Chakram.. and I'm not particularly interested in dealing with special mechanics on AoE skills (*cough* blessed hammer *cough*) so yea, guess I'll be trying out a new class at the start. =(
Another strong AoE is Elemental Arrow, it's cheap enough to be fairly spammable. It doesn't really have a special mechanic, apart from shooting in a straight line through enemies rather than spreading out straight away. Also it can be runed to have a variety of effects.
Ya elemental arrow is more along the lines of what I was thinking about. Cluster arrow is even less spammable than multishot. I need something on my right click that I can use often, more often than entangling shot if I can pull it off. Multishot might still be viable with the hatred cost reduction, but I don't know.
Elemental arrow does seem like an interesting replacement, it was fun to use when it was in the beta, and could directly replace multishot.
That is an interesting build, I wonder what the damage type of nether tentacles is. If it is still fire I'll have to change the rune skill for rapid fire to have two different damage types, but that's ok with me. Things are looking up.
The change to multishot actually made me not want to play this class anymore, I was looking forward to multishot as my main aoe attack, but now its not really spammable, and in my opinion she doesn't have any good spammable AoE spells, or they have special mechanics for their AoE - such as Bola shot or Chakram.. and I'm not particularly interested in dealing with special mechanics on AoE skills (*cough* blessed hammer *cough*) so yea, guess I'll be trying out a new class at the start. =(
Another strong AoE is Elemental Arrow, it's cheap enough to be fairly spammable. It doesn't really have a special mechanic, apart from shooting in a straight line through enemies rather than spreading out straight away. Also it can be runed to have a variety of effects.
Ya elemental arrow is more along the lines of what I was thinking about. Cluster arrow is even less spammable than multishot. I need something on my right click that I can use often, more often than entangling shot if I can pull it off. Multishot might still be viable with the hatred cost reduction, but I don't know.
Elemental arrow does seem like an interesting replacement, it was fun to use when it was in the beta, and could directly replace multishot.
That is an interesting build, I wonder what the damage type of nether tentacles is. If it is still fire I'll have to change the rune skill for rapid fire to have two different damage types, but that's ok with me. Things are looking up.
I figure with my build, i'll be spamming more entangling before the cluster, I do like how you've gone life leech with the elemental, so maybe I'll change from bat to boar companion and go your route.
Not sure why everyone is going wolf companion, I understand it does double the damage of most other companions, but it could disappear at really inopportune times. I guess you'd probably be a bit more of a micro'er than me
The demon hunter in beta has very lack luster aoe. With the nerf to Multishot, I'm a bit worried that will continue to be true even as you lvl up past the current cap.
40 is just too much.
Almost triple the hatred cost for an additive 50% additional dmg. That isn't really equal by any means...
I figure with my build, i'll be spamming more entangling before the cluster, I do like how you've gone life leech with the elemental, so maybe I'll change from bat to boar companion and go your route.
Not sure why everyone is going wolf companion, I understand it does double the damage of most other companions, but it could disappear at really inopportune times. I guess you'd probably be a bit more of a micro'er than me
Ya that makes sense, entangling is great. Ya life leech is actually what ended up appealing to me a lot about that skill, it took care of the necessary defensive role of life gain that I hadn't filled well enough.
For me I went with the wolf because for my build I won't be using vault too often, mostly only when necessary or sometimes to move around (out of combat - backtracking to stairs, that sort of thing,) hence the decreased cost on successive vaults. So ideally I will try to always have enough discipline to cast wolves if they ever run out while I'm in a tight spot. I'd like to be below 10 disc in combat situations as rarely as possible. We'll have to see how this plays out, I've definitely considered other pet types, or perhaps even the sentry, for that we'll really have to see how it plays out.
I figure with my build, i'll be spamming more entangling before the cluster, I do like how you've gone life leech with the elemental, so maybe I'll change from bat to boar companion and go your route.
Not sure why everyone is going wolf companion, I understand it does double the damage of most other companions, but it could disappear at really inopportune times. I guess you'd probably be a bit more of a micro'er than me
Ya that makes sense, entangling is great. Ya life leech is actually what ended up appealing to me a lot about that skill, it took care of the necessary defensive role of life gain that I hadn't filled well enough.
For me I went with the wolf because for my build I won't be using vault too often, mostly only when necessary or sometimes to move around (out of combat - backtracking to stairs, that sort of thing,) hence the decreased cost on successive vaults. So ideally I will try to always have enough discipline to cast wolves if they ever run out while I'm in a tight spot. I'd like to be below 10 disc in combat situations as rarely as possible. We'll have to see how this plays out, I've definitely considered other pet types, or perhaps even the sentry, for that we'll really have to see how it plays out.
I was toying with what you said regarding sentry, how about something like this:
Hatred generator is also capable of hitting 3 targets, spammable but not really AOE, but then sentry and spike traps come into play for aoe, along with smoke screen leaving aoe around? Though it's going to chew up your disc pretty quickly so I'd be taking prepartion along with battle scars for a heal?
While generally the discipline costs of the DH's skills were lowered, its passives geared towards discipline have been nerfed a bit.
Nerfed a bit ?! That's like the understatement of the century.
Shadow Power went from returning 45 to returning 12 Hatred. That's an massive nerf.
Blizzard has nerfed almost 90% of the ability syneries (since like patch 8) to the point where they can barely be called synergies anymore. The overnerfs are just crazy.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Traitors! Even in death, the armies of Khanduras will still obey their king!"
You can use them with your brain. Oh wait, do you have a brain ?
Please tell me specifically what areas of the game the demon hunter is having difficulties relative to other classes - area name and difficultly level please.
While generally the discipline costs of the DH's skills were lowered, its passives geared towards discipline have been nerfed a bit.
Nerfed a bit ?! That's like the understatement of the century.
Shadow Power went from returning 45 to returning 12 Hatred. That's an massive nerf.
Blizzard has nerfed almost 90% of the ability syneries (since like patch 8) to the point where they can barely be called synergies anymore. The overnerfs are just crazy.
I was referring to skills that regen discipline (that rune makes it a hatred generator) so I actually wasn't referring to that change. That is a sizable nerf in regard to hatred regeneration. However, from everything I've seen DH's aren't particularly hatred-starved. Maybe for the builds you're planning they could be? I haven't followed the Beta since patch 8 so I am not familiar with the claim about synergy nerfing. *shoulder shrug*
My overall thoughts are this gives the DH some added breathing room in terms of discipline. Discipline costs have dropped from ~20-50% for many of the DH's utility skills. The discipline passives have been nerfed a little but it seems like a noticeable net gain overall.
In regard to the complaints about multishot: it becomes a stronger AoE spell in favor of hatred efficiency. I guess people are bummed because that makes it less spammable. I can see that but I think the uproar is a bit much. The Fire at Will rune gives you that option to trade single-strike damage for hatred efficiency at a higher level anyways so I am not sure it's as big a deal as people are making it out to be.
Demonhunter
O.P.:
I'm really excited about the DH so I thought I'd gather everyone's thoughts on patch 16's effects on the class.
The changes are pretty straight forward--decreased discipline costs to Caltrops/Smoke Screen/Vault & a one-handed crossbow buff--but I'd be interested to see what people think considering this will may be the final iteration of DH before launch.
I considered the discp. costs of these skills a tad too high in patch 15. Now Vault and Caltrops-especially coupled with decent regen gear/passives in later gameplay--seem more spammable.
In my mind, it makes a more defensive-oriented (solo player?) DH viable in late game.
Of all the skills, Smokescreen encountered the greatest change. While losing 1 sec of its effect, the ability to both break CC and become immune to CC is huge, especially coupled with a discipline cost decrease. And 10% movement speed can't hurt. I am excited about this skill for the first time.
As for 1-handed crossbow, it remains to be seen how big the buff will be. I can't imagine it will be too large considering most people seem to think the weapon system for DH is pretty balanced already.
Thank you Blizzard.
.
My PvP build would be different from these 13.
Check out the leaked Demon Hunter skill list here from Blizzard China: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://tiny.cc/10p16
Diablo III is $50; MSI GT683DXR-423US Gaming Laptop is $1,599; Playing Diablo III w/ my wife & 2 brothers is PRICELESS
http://us.battle.net...cldT!beT!aYacbc
That was my planned build, there's just nothing that really takes the place of multshot. =\ I'm open to suggestions though.
Edit: I guess you didn't list the unofficial changes, the specific change I'm refering to is:
Multishot: Now costs 40 Hatred, up from 15 an deals 165% weapon damage, up from 115%
More importantly though,
The nerf to disc to hatred is pretty severe.... Really really changes things up.
Smoke Screen Now costs 14 Discipline, down from 24 and lasts for 2 seconds, down from 3
Shadow Power Now costs 14 Discipline, down from 20
Preparation
Punishment Now restore all Hatred for 25 Discipline up from 20.
These changes could have huge implications on some builds.
"Just google "diablo 3 gold guide" and magical rainbow covered demons will assault your eyes."
Thanks for info. I wasn't aware of the unofficial changes! When I have a moment I'll edit my OP to reflect the unofficial changes as well.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#bPclXT!YeT!cbccbZ
Another strong AoE is Elemental Arrow, it's cheap enough to be fairly spammable. It doesn't really have a special mechanic, apart from shooting in a straight line through enemies rather than spreading out straight away. Also it can be runed to have a variety of effects.
Ya elemental arrow is more along the lines of what I was thinking about. Cluster arrow is even less spammable than multishot. I need something on my right click that I can use often, more often than entangling shot if I can pull it off. Multishot might still be viable with the hatred cost reduction, but I don't know.
Elemental arrow does seem like an interesting replacement, it was fun to use when it was in the beta, and could directly replace multishot.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#bRcldT!beT!acacbc
That is an interesting build, I wonder what the damage type of nether tentacles is. If it is still fire I'll have to change the rune skill for rapid fire to have two different damage types, but that's ok with me. Things are looking up.
I figure with my build, i'll be spamming more entangling before the cluster, I do like how you've gone life leech with the elemental, so maybe I'll change from bat to boar companion and go your route.
Not sure why everyone is going wolf companion, I understand it does double the damage of most other companions, but it could disappear at really inopportune times. I guess you'd probably be a bit more of a micro'er than me
40 is just too much.
Almost triple the hatred cost for an additive 50% additional dmg. That isn't really equal by any means...
Ya that makes sense, entangling is great. Ya life leech is actually what ended up appealing to me a lot about that skill, it took care of the necessary defensive role of life gain that I hadn't filled well enough.
For me I went with the wolf because for my build I won't be using vault too often, mostly only when necessary or sometimes to move around (out of combat - backtracking to stairs, that sort of thing,) hence the decreased cost on successive vaults. So ideally I will try to always have enough discipline to cast wolves if they ever run out while I'm in a tight spot. I'd like to be below 10 disc in combat situations as rarely as possible. We'll have to see how this plays out, I've definitely considered other pet types, or perhaps even the sentry, for that we'll really have to see how it plays out.
I was toying with what you said regarding sentry, how about something like this:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#fRSkXV!UeT!bcbYcb
Hatred generator is also capable of hitting 3 targets, spammable but not really AOE, but then sentry and spike traps come into play for aoe, along with smoke screen leaving aoe around? Though it's going to chew up your disc pretty quickly so I'd be taking prepartion along with battle scars for a heal?
Thanks. Diablo 3 Inc. Added the url to the OP where the image is copy/pasted.
Nerfed a bit ?! That's like the understatement of the century.
Shadow Power went from returning 45 to returning 12 Hatred. That's an massive nerf.
Blizzard has nerfed almost 90% of the ability syneries (since like patch 8) to the point where they can barely be called synergies anymore. The overnerfs are just crazy.
you people are so blinded by your fanboyism it's surreal - and this is coming from someone whose favorite hero is the DH
Please tell me specifically what areas of the game the demon hunter is having difficulties relative to other classes - area name and difficultly level please.
Yeah that is better. Not as detailed but easier to digest.
I was referring to skills that regen discipline (that rune makes it a hatred generator) so I actually wasn't referring to that change. That is a sizable nerf in regard to hatred regeneration. However, from everything I've seen DH's aren't particularly hatred-starved. Maybe for the builds you're planning they could be? I haven't followed the Beta since patch 8 so I am not familiar with the claim about synergy nerfing. *shoulder shrug*
My overall thoughts are this gives the DH some added breathing room in terms of discipline. Discipline costs have dropped from ~20-50% for many of the DH's utility skills. The discipline passives have been nerfed a little but it seems like a noticeable net gain overall.
In regard to the complaints about multishot: it becomes a stronger AoE spell in favor of hatred efficiency. I guess people are bummed because that makes it less spammable. I can see that but I think the uproar is a bit much. The Fire at Will rune gives you that option to trade single-strike damage for hatred efficiency at a higher level anyways so I am not sure it's as big a deal as people are making it out to be.
Oh, and also the huge nerf on the Hatred generation from Smoke Screen.