Alot of people should have noticed that they are getting one shoted even with force armor on and I wanted to start a discussion on deciphering on exactly how it was nerfed.
Here's what I've notice so far.
The over 35% damage doesn't seem to be exclusive for certain mobs.
I've had certain mobs never able to hit me above for 35% and yet have a champion or rare version of them one-shot me.
The over 35% damage is not exclusive for attacks that would normally one-shot my health. I've encountered several mobs that can take from around half my HP to over my max HP in a single hit.
These 'over 35% damage' don't increase after I equipped some vit gear. I realized this while doing the butcher. His chain attack [NOT the one that drags you to him] kept hitting me for around 7k to 10k. So I tried equipping some vit gear to raise my HP to around 11K and he wasn't one-shoting me with that attack anymore, and it's damage was the same.
Seeing how some certain avoidable attacks with ridiculously high damage [that you shouldn't get hit with in the first place] can break through diamond skin and force armor resulting in a one-shot, I believe that the way force armor was nerfed is that there is a limit to how much an attack can have it's damage reduced.
This would likely explain why it seems to be working okay in hell but not in inferno
If anyone wants it, I can compile certain scenes from today's hunt that may provide some clues.
The "doesn't let you absorb more than your own hp" theory
That can't be the case seeing how stacking some vit didn't effect how much damage butcher was doing to me.
Having some vit gear has solved the problem for me so far. Now with this change and the way they changed how damage is equated with shields, players can no longer depend on broken diamond shield or HP regen tactics. And also need to stack some vit now.
Since I knew it was going to be nerfed (it was kinda obvious...) I was still farming for more stam / other defensives stats. It did not affect me at all :P.
Otherwise it's really sad that the AH is now ruined by all those exploits
WHy is it obvious? Force armor isn't overpowered, it is really good don't get me wrong. But yesterday I solod act 2 inferno with that build (not 4500hpish, more like 12k) and you will die.....A LOT. I literally wiped my way through a lot of elite packs.
Mobs are faster, more ranged stuff, invis stuff, dots, stuns that shit still kills you.
All you guys see is some wiz melee tanking butcher and u go like, wtfawesomesaucebbq nerf plx. So he can solo story mode (act) bosses....so what, you won't get the sweet loot from them. Untill i see someone fully clearing act 2 and 3 on inferno without dying, I say it doesnt need a nerf. WIth full clear I mean go in every dungeon, kill every rare/elite/champ
WHy is it obvious? Force armor isn't overpowered, it is really good don't get me wrong. But yesterday I solod act 2 inferno with that build (not 4500hpish, more like 12k) and you will die.....A LOT. I literally wiped my way through a lot of elite packs.
Mobs are faster, more ranged stuff, invis stuff, dots, stuns that shit still kills you.
All you guys see is some wiz melee tanking butcher and u go like, wtfawesomesaucebbq nerf plx. So he can solo story mode (act) bosses....so what, you won't get the sweet loot from them. Untill i see someone fully clearing act 2 and 3 on inferno without dying, I say it doesnt need a nerf. WIth full clear I mean go in every dungeon, kill every rare/elite/champ
While I do agree that many people mistakenly assume that any build with force armor is insta-win, being able to forgo vit altogether and recovering on hit worth damage with 1 to 3 ticks of life regen is OP and needs a nerf [and the infi-diamondskin tree is downright broken]
If my assumption about the current way force armor is working is correct, I see this as an appropriate nerf. Force armor is still a powerful spell and it's interesting trying to find the right amount of vit to keep my HP low as possible while avoiding getting one-shoted.
I only have some vague assumptions right now and need to research some more.
It's that the incoming damage is affected by the players damage mitigation [eg:defense] and that, after mitigation, if the damage exceeds a certain amount it bypasses force armor
You can't see the numbers in the vid but whats happening here is that when I get hit almost-naked, I get hit for somewhere around 30k
After the almost-naked pwnage the next scene is with around 30k HP and I get hit for around 11k which is right about 35%-ish of my max HP
The next scene is with 11k HP and the tree is hitting me for around 4k, again which is around 35%.
What I don't understand is that although it wasn't recorded here, I tried getting hit with 6k HP with some early lv 50 armor on and I get hit for 11k, which is above my max HP.
I want to experiment more on this but Asia is down, again....
I never got a chance to effectively try this build as I'm still in Hell (and undergeared), but I find it funny how short a window a Level 54 skill rune has.
You want to find out the max hit you'll take in an area (Let's say its 20k)
Then you calculate how much HP you'll want.
Max Hit = 1.35 * Max Health
So for 20k you get
20k = 1.35 * Max Health, so you want about 15k hp for max absorption.
Is it worse than before? Yup. But it's still preventing 15k damage per hit in that example.
FA still kicks ass, and I'll be happy to take advantage of it...
But yes, you're forced to gear up like every other class... So very unfortunate, that whole balance thing : )
For those that want the math... If you have 12k hp, and you get hit for 15k, that 15k is reduced to ~4k (as 15k - 4k is still under 12k), so while you can still be one shot... It is only possible if you get hit for twice as much as your health (get hit for 24k, but 12k is the max taken off, so you take 12k and die)... Someone feel free to correct my math if it's off : )
In short, playing 'properly' (with appropriate gear), still makes it a useful skill... Until you take 3 very fast very hard hits in succession. Wonder if Diamond Armor comes off before or after the Force Armor check...
To add onto my earlier post, the biggest hit you can survive is 199% of your health. If for some reason you're going for that, change the 1.35 to 1.99.
Judging by the quote, it seems that unless your hp is more than half of the hit being taken, you'll die.
If your hp is less than half of the damage being taken then Force Armour will be capped at absorbing your hp, and then the rest - which will consequently be more than your hp - will go through and you'll die.
Force armor is still good, unless you will somehow avoid every hit or run around with 70K health and tank stats. It forces you to have a minimum health. So far I'd say 30K for A2 and 40-50K for A3 feels right.
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Here's what I've notice so far.
The over 35% damage doesn't seem to be exclusive for certain mobs.
I've had certain mobs never able to hit me above for 35% and yet have a champion or rare version of them one-shot me.
The over 35% damage is not exclusive for attacks that would normally one-shot my health. I've encountered several mobs that can take from around half my HP to over my max HP in a single hit.
These 'over 35% damage' don't increase after I equipped some vit gear. I realized this while doing the butcher. His chain attack [NOT the one that drags you to him] kept hitting me for around 7k to 10k. So I tried equipping some vit gear to raise my HP to around 11K and he wasn't one-shoting me with that attack anymore, and it's damage was the same.
Seeing how some certain avoidable attacks with ridiculously high damage [that you shouldn't get hit with in the first place] can break through diamond skin and force armor resulting in a one-shot, I believe that the way force armor was nerfed is that there is a limit to how much an attack can have it's damage reduced.
This would likely explain why it seems to be working okay in hell but not in inferno
If anyone wants it, I can compile certain scenes from today's hunt that may provide some clues.
The "doesn't let you absorb more than your own hp" theory may work if armor is considered in the equation.
Edit: My gear broke during testing and I decided to do more testing with the broken gear and I was being one-shot by everything.
Having some vit gear has solved the problem for me so far. Now with this change and the way they changed how damage is equated with shields, players can no longer depend on broken diamond shield or HP regen tactics. And also need to stack some vit now.
either that and that the xxx damage is different for each attack
or
there's a % limit to how much an attack can be reduced
both of them makes sense in my encounter with the butcher.
Mobs are faster, more ranged stuff, invis stuff, dots, stuns that shit still kills you.
All you guys see is some wiz melee tanking butcher and u go like, wtfawesomesaucebbq nerf plx. So he can solo story mode (act) bosses....so what, you won't get the sweet loot from them. Untill i see someone fully clearing act 2 and 3 on inferno without dying, I say it doesnt need a nerf. WIth full clear I mean go in every dungeon, kill every rare/elite/champ
While I do agree that many people mistakenly assume that any build with force armor is insta-win, being able to forgo vit altogether and recovering on hit worth damage with 1 to 3 ticks of life regen is OP and needs a nerf [and the infi-diamondskin tree is downright broken]
If my assumption about the current way force armor is working is correct, I see this as an appropriate nerf. Force armor is still a powerful spell and it's interesting trying to find the right amount of vit to keep my HP low as possible while avoiding getting one-shoted.
see his original post at the top of the thread.
It's that the incoming damage is affected by the players damage mitigation [eg:defense] and that, after mitigation, if the damage exceeds a certain amount it bypasses force armor
You can't see the numbers in the vid but whats happening here is that when I get hit almost-naked, I get hit for somewhere around 30k
After the almost-naked pwnage the next scene is with around 30k HP and I get hit for around 11k which is right about 35%-ish of my max HP
The next scene is with 11k HP and the tree is hitting me for around 4k, again which is around 35%.
What I don't understand is that although it wasn't recorded here, I tried getting hit with 6k HP with some early lv 50 armor on and I get hit for 11k, which is above my max HP.
I want to experiment more on this but Asia is down, again....
my original assumption on my OP only seems to apply to certain attacks.
as I said, I need to experiment on this more.
You want to find out the max hit you'll take in an area (Let's say its 20k)
Then you calculate how much HP you'll want.
Max Hit = 1.35 * Max Health
So for 20k you get
20k = 1.35 * Max Health, so you want about 15k hp for max absorption.
Is it worse than before? Yup. But it's still preventing 15k damage per hit in that example.
FA still kicks ass, and I'll be happy to take advantage of it...
But yes, you're forced to gear up like every other class... So very unfortunate, that whole balance thing : )
For those that want the math... If you have 12k hp, and you get hit for 15k, that 15k is reduced to ~4k (as 15k - 4k is still under 12k), so while you can still be one shot... It is only possible if you get hit for twice as much as your health (get hit for 24k, but 12k is the max taken off, so you take 12k and die)... Someone feel free to correct my math if it's off : )
In short, playing 'properly' (with appropriate gear), still makes it a useful skill... Until you take 3 very fast very hard hits in succession. Wonder if Diamond Armor comes off before or after the Force Armor check...
-Alamar
If your hp is less than half of the damage being taken then Force Armour will be capped at absorbing your hp, and then the rest - which will consequently be more than your hp - will go through and you'll die.
So this seems accurate, judging by the hotfix quote.
And may the odds be ever in your favour.
Emmo#2406
Force armor is still good, unless you will somehow avoid every hit or run around with 70K health and tank stats. It forces you to have a minimum health. So far I'd say 30K for A2 and 40-50K for A3 feels right.