Temporal Flux: Slow time with Miasma lasts longer, better slow, and you don't have to hit them, just form it around them.
Glass Cannon: Marginal increase in damage, marginal decrease in AC and resistance. Familiar with Crimson rune is double the damage, who cares about just 20%. Throw in Arcane Torrent with Crimson Rune and you do 120% more damage with an arcane spell. Recycle Bin.
Unstable Anomaly: If your planning to be below 20% life enough to make this a useful weapon then you need to change all your spells out! Trash it.
Power Hungry: Gain 30 power when healed by health. You gain 12 power just from standing still, in a pinch this could be useful but for most, trash it !
Prodigy: Marginal at best, you'll spend half the time firing off this saving up for meteor when you could use disintegrate crimson with storm armor and get more damage in less time.... Recycle bin. Good for a low level/melee wizard.
Arcane Dynamo: Why do this spell when you can do Arcane Torrent with crimson rune and get 120% more damage with arcane spells for 6 seconds. Trash.
Illusionist: A better illusion is Diamond skin and then kill the thing ! If your that worried about getting hit, probably by a melee thing, add Blur as passive with Diamond Skin and you don't have to worry. Even in Arena games Diamond skin seemed to work awesome and with Indigo rune you'll be up more often. Trash.
Virtuoso: Recycle bin, could work ok for Energy armor but more often than not people will probably not use it.
Mirror Images (except Simulacrum and Extension of Will)- All other mirror images are probably useless or not as useful. The one that creates 6 images could be good, but, they only have 25% health which means they go bye bye fast if your taking a lot of damage. A neat trick at low levels but higher it'll probably just be laughed at as they disappear in a second. maybe good for Arena. Recycle bin. Why do mocking demise, when you could put the same rune in Wave of Force and definitely stun for 5.0 seconds and knock them back from you.
Meteor cost too high, good for one hit wonder if you can hit and if it does the max damage but Arcane torrent with Disintegrate will do more damage in the same amount of time, throw in the supposed cast time of 3 seconds for meteor and ease of missing and lower chance of critical compared to disintegrate. Trash.
Arcane Orb: Recycle bin. Disintegrate is better, hits everything in front of you, less mana use etc. etc.
Energy Twister: Why use this when Ray of Frost or Disintegrate will cost less with more damage. Trash.
Explosive blast: Almost as bad as Energy twister, the only reason I would use it is if something is immune to arcane, that is it. Recycle Bin.
Ice Armor is great but slow with miasma is better. There is nothing Ice Armor can do that Slow time with Miasma can't do better, longer, or more reliably. Trash.
Put Disruptive Arcane Torrent with Disintegrate or ray of frost with gold rune or red (for more damage) for single target and whether using Storm armor (for low ap use) or energy armor pinpoint barrier, damage would be higher and longer than any other spells except Archon that we don't know the spells. Arcane Torrent with Ray of Frost with gold rune would be great for pinpoint barrier with only 1 target. Mana from using AT would be regained after 2 seconds of doing RoF so it would easily be Ap neutral while doing tremendous amounts of damage.
Stand still ? Just do diamond skin with indigo and they'll be running from you while you hit them. I recycled Arcane Orb but I'd still keep it close, it is part of the same pile Arcane Orb is great but Disintegrate should be faster too. Also Arcane orb is so slow, that the person has to do slow time to catch the monster:
It isn't much of a comparison. Against monsters sure it could be great but against a real person... you couldn't catch Stephen Hawking with a arcane orb!
I'm reading the blizzard descriptions, their spell damage, and as you can see above looking at video of the spells. I haven't yet found Arcane Orb being used in Arena... If you disagree then debate but if you don't have anything to show then I can't take you seriously.
you have NO idea what you're talking about Meteor has no cast time, where did you get a 3 second cast time? after meteor hits it leaves a fire aoe in the location in landed in. Meteor runes are better than Arcane Torrents as well.
Luckily i skimmed through your post and read your meteor comment to know you have no idea what you're talking about and stopped there.
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"...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; for he to-day that sheds his blood with me
shall be my brother..."
You obviously don't know why Arcane Torrent... it gives 120% damage to arcane spells, that is why it is there..... Hey on the Meteor time I had to google it.... everything else is still true. You would still add it to Arcane torrent if it is arcane.
Ya just stop there, that is a great way to debate....
I see lots of criticism but I don't see actual talk about the spells other than slow arcane orb... and the guy above me who stopped at meteor because I thought it had a 3 second cast time but the real question, was that the only mistake I made? Do you have video or blue post of meteor being fired. How about the numbers.... how about the damage. Some of this stuff I learned from people here, like the Arcane Torrent with red rune I didn't know that 2 days ago...
Meteor cost too high, good for one hit wonder if you can hit and if it does the max damage but Arcane torrent with Disintegrate will do more damage in the same amount of time, throw in the supposed cast time of 3 seconds for meteor and ease of missing and lower chance of critical compared to disintegrate. Trash.
Arcane Dynamo: Why do this spell when you can do Arcane Torrent with crimson rune and get 120% more damage with arcane spells for 6 seconds. Trash.
No one has stated any proof of what "120% additional damage from arcane attacks" means. I think many assume that means the target will take 1 +1.2x damage from arcane spells. I personally believe it will mean that your arcane spells will have an extra 120% bonus added the their base power. It's essentially the same as having 120 of the attack attribute added to arcane spells only.
Basically an unmodified disintegrate on a wizard with 500 attack will deal 510-642 per second. The 120% bonus arcane damage will increase it to 612-770 per second.
The same wizard with no runes to meteor will still deal 1278-1746 plus 168-258 per second afterwards.
I highly doubt arcane torrent's bonus damage ability will allow it to severely outclass the wizard's strongest spell (aside from archon transformation).
Also: Wizards have so much ability to recover arcane power. With signature spells granting up to 26 arcane power per use without even critting... I have a feeling that meteor WILL be spammable.
You obviously don't know why Arcane Torrent... it gives 120% damage to arcane spells, that is why it is there..... Hey on the Meteor time I had to google it.... everything else is still true. You would still add it to Arcane torrent if it is arcane.
Ya just stop there, that is a great way to debate....
for argument sake lets say you are able to control your AoE and hit everything with torrent or meteor kay?
Arcane Torrent crimson rune increases arcane dmg to 120%!!! after it first hits
base AT +120%AT +120%AT = doing this in my head lands one cast of AT to be around 800 dmg, so good right?
Now let us take Meteor and use the Indigo rune shall we?
Take the avg of 139-189 139+182 /2 = 164 now x14 = 2296
2296 vs 800 ya ok is it that hard to pick? Now lets add some realism, assuming that only 1/2 your meteor hits via RNG its still what? 1150 dmg?
Now lets use Crimson Meteor Rune instead of Indigo... whats that it does near identical avg dmg per 1 cast?
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"...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; for he to-day that sheds his blood with me
shall be my brother..."
I don't know about that with meteor I got the same value for damage on it Liverymen. Your damage for disintegrate is high if we are using the same factor but I took into account the chance to critical which on Diablo wiki says it is 50% the damage. We have to put the numbers up. That Meteor you just said was total of 4 seconds, initial damage then the second damage. disintegrate using your numbers of 770 X 4 seconds would be between 2448-3080. So the damage is still higher in the same amount of time, but your numbers are all higher than mine, getting my previous calculations...
I don't know about that with meteor I got the same value for damage on it Liverymen. Your damage for disintegrate is high if we are using the same factor but I took into account the chance to critical which on Diablo wiki says it is 50% the damage. We have to put the numbers up. That Meteor you just said was total of 4 seconds, initial damage then the second damage. disintegrate using your numbers of 770 X 4 seconds would be between 2448-3080. So the damage is still higher in the same amount of time, but your numbers are all higher than mine, getting my previous calculations...
Using avg of 210 damage for DIAT: 210+(210 X 1.8) = 588 damage
DIAT over 4 seconds= 2352
641 damage for MIAT: 641+(641 X 1.8) = 1794.8 + 94 = 1888.8 total damage over 4 seconds
555 avg damage for MIAT: 555+(555 X 1.8) = 1554 + 94 = 1648 total damage over 4 seconds
Meteor has damage difference of 172 between the high and low
Disintegrate damage difference is 46 and it will be just under the ap regen so you should have a net gain of 1 ap per second while doing DIAT that's like adding lean muscle too !
I didn't factor the 94 damage of meteor... probably should.
If crits don't multiply your total damage wouldn't that be yet another benefit to disintegrate?
factor of 1.8 comes from 20% cannon, 40% familiar, 120% Arcane torrent.
Hey the post isn't named, "Skills Everybody Should Throw In The Trash".
We are talking about Meteor with Arcane Torrent and Disintegrate with Arcane Torrent but over the same time, Disintegrate is still higher and more chance to crit. I'll take Liverymen's honest debate with calculations over personal attacks any day.
So while you sit there, dick in hand channeling arcane torrent for 3 seconds to meet the cost of Meteor ive already cast Meteor+something else.
If you want to use use Arcane Torrent for one tick of BASE AT damage to get the 120% buff then go to Disint, it still wont beat out Meteor+one spell
sorry. Meteor fucking OP!
The ONLY downfall to meteor is the high cost, that's it. If you have to have a long sustain fight and you lack good arcane regen ATbase+Disint+Disint+Disint+Disint+ATbase/Disint (latency pending) could very well beat Meteor + Filler + Filler + Meteor/Filler +Meteor/Filler (latency pending) + Filler.
However if your finding that Arcane Regen is not a problem then Meteor beats it out hands down. If you have rank 7 runes, im assuming regen is not going to be a problem with the gear.
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"...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; for he to-day that sheds his blood with me
shall be my brother..."
OP, your build is trash. You have zero arcane power generation and you rely on 2 HIGH DRAINING arcane power abilities to debuff (torrent) + then deal damage (disintegrate).
Furthermore, channeled abilities ARE ABSOLUTELY GARBAGE in Diablo compared to fire and forget abilities.
OP, your build is trash. You have zero arcane power generation and you rely on 2 HIGH DRAINING arcane power abilities to debuff (torrent) + then deal damage (disintegrate).
Furthermore, channeled abilities ARE ABSOLUTELY GARBAGE in Diablo compared to fire and forget abilities.
what dat guy said
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"...We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; for he to-day that sheds his blood with me
shall be my brother..."
Could be, though I've only seen one arena game I noticed that the go to spell is Disintegrate and when they wanted to miss, they used Meteor :). I think a DIAT user Vs Meteor would destroy them, also the Arcane torrent is supposed to disrupt so can you even cast a spell if someone hits you with it?
The mana problem is a BIG problem if your using pinpoint barrier your shield is screwed, but with storm armor and diamond skin I think they would run circles around a meteor user, even if the Meteor cast is point blank right on target, if they have diamond skin on.... they are going to dampen the power of it if not eliminate it completely.
Disintegrate with pinpoint barrier is much easier on the ap and you should critical more often, also, Ray of Frost with Snow Blast does more damage than disintegrate if your fighting 1 target (if it is arcane). Either way to max damage, pinpoint barrier, Arcane Torrent with Disintegrate (intensify) or Ray of Frost (snow blast) would be killer against Meteor or instead.
"Meteor cost too high, good for one hit wonder if you can hit and if it does the max damage but Arcane torrent with Disintegrate will do more damage in the same amount of time, throw in the supposed cast time of 3 seconds for meteor and ease of missing and lower chance of critical compared to disintegrate. Trash."
Arcane Torrent's Disruption rune effect only increases damage 120% with skills that deal Arcane damage. It would definitely go great with Disintegrate, as you noted. The effect last 6 seconds. (120% Increase dmg) so here's some math that I"m thinking of. After you cast AT on a target, you probably only have about 5 seconds left of the 120% increase.
---------- Disintegrate-(Crimson Rune) -- 188 - 234 Arcane damage per second. The average is 211/sec. Obviously, it increases over time, but best case scenario and for the sake of discussion, we'll take the averages/sec.
211 damage X 120% increased dmg = 464 damage
464 damage X 5 seconds = 2321 Arcane Damage total
Arcane Torrent cost - 20 AP
Disintegrate cost for 5/sec - 100 AP TOTAL - 120 AP cost to take advantage of Disintegrate's powerful damage potential
---------- Meteor - Indigo - (Meteor Shower)- Unleash a volley of 14 smaller meteors that strike for 139 - 189 Fire damage.
Again, take the average of each meteor - 161 damage.
161 damage X 14 meteors = 2296 damage total
Meteor cost - 60 AP TOTAL - 60 AP to do the same damage, without any % damage increases, for CHEAPER. ----------
Frost Nova - Crimson Rune - Enemies take 110% more damage while frozen or chilled by Frost Nova. An explosion of ice freezes nearby enemies for 4 seconds and causes 28 - 50 Cold damage.
THEN USE
Ray of Frost - Crimson Rune - Damage increases slowly over 1.5 seconds to inflict a maximum of 369 - 434 Cold damage per second.
Again, taking the average per/sec, 401.5/sec
401.5 X 110% increase damage = 843.15 damage
843.15 X 4 seconds = 3372.6 damage total.
Frost Nova cost - 0 AP
RoF cost for 4 seconds - 116 TOTAL - 116 AP to do more damage at same cost (just about) as ArcTorr/Disint combo.
--------
Or swap out RoF with Slow Time (I wouldn't, I appreciate the stun effect from RoF) and take advantage of the 140% increase in damage !!! When Frost Nova/Slow Time 'capture's' enemies, then Ray of Frost starts looking better than Disintegrate. And Meteor stands on its own.
Temporal Flux: Slow time with Miasma lasts longer, better slow, and you don't have to hit them, just form it around them.
Glass Cannon: Marginal increase in damage, marginal decrease in AC and resistance. Familiar with Crimson rune is double the damage, who cares about just 20%. Throw in Arcane Torrent with Crimson Rune and you do 120% more damage with an arcane spell. Recycle Bin.
Unstable Anomaly: If your planning to be below 20% life enough to make this a useful weapon then you need to change all your spells out! Trash it.
Power Hungry: Gain 30 power when healed by health. You gain 12 power just from standing still, in a pinch this could be useful but for most, trash it !
Prodigy: Marginal at best, you'll spend half the time firing off this saving up for meteor when you could use disintegrate crimson with storm armor and get more damage in less time.... Recycle bin. Good for a low level/melee wizard.
Arcane Dynamo: Why do this spell when you can do Arcane Torrent with crimson rune and get 120% more damage with arcane spells for 6 seconds. Trash.
Illusionist: A better illusion is Diamond skin and then kill the thing ! If your that worried about getting hit, probably by a melee thing, add Blur as passive with Diamond Skin and you don't have to worry. Even in Arena games Diamond skin seemed to work awesome and with Indigo rune you'll be up more often. Trash.
Virtuoso: Recycle bin, could work ok for Energy armor but more often than not people will probably not use it.
Mirror Images (except Simulacrum and Extension of Will)- All other mirror images are probably useless or not as useful. The one that creates 6 images could be good, but, they only have 25% health which means they go bye bye fast if your taking a lot of damage. A neat trick at low levels but higher it'll probably just be laughed at as they disappear in a second. maybe good for Arena. Recycle bin. Why do mocking demise, when you could put the same rune in Wave of Force and definitely stun for 5.0 seconds and knock them back from you.
Meteor cost too high, good for one hit wonder if you can hit and if it does the max damage but Arcane torrent with Disintegrate will do more damage in the same amount of time, throw in the supposed cast time of 3 seconds for meteor and ease of missing and lower chance of critical compared to disintegrate. Trash.
Arcane Orb: Recycle bin. Disintegrate is better, hits everything in front of you, less mana use etc. etc.
Energy Twister: Why use this when Ray of Frost or Disintegrate will cost less with more damage. Trash.
Explosive blast: Almost as bad as Energy twister, the only reason I would use it is if something is immune to arcane, that is it. Recycle Bin.
Ice Armor is great but slow with miasma is better. There is nothing Ice Armor can do that Slow time with Miasma can't do better, longer, or more reliably. Trash.
=======================================================================================
Put Disruptive Arcane Torrent with Disintegrate or ray of frost with gold rune or red (for more damage) for single target and whether using Storm armor (for low ap use) or energy armor pinpoint barrier, damage would be higher and longer than any other spells except Archon that we don't know the spells. Arcane Torrent with Ray of Frost with gold rune would be great for pinpoint barrier with only 1 target. Mana from using AT would be regained after 2 seconds of doing RoF so it would easily be Ap neutral while doing tremendous amounts of damage.
Here they are all together:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#kUgjOV!VWX!ZZbZZY
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/wizard#kUQjOV!bWX!ZZabZY
Only foreseeable problem, what if a monster is immune to arcane...
But you will learn your lesson when you play the game like that once its released.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zM4Cs3XyPKA
It isn't much of a comparison. Against monsters sure it could be great but against a real person... you couldn't catch Stephen Hawking with a arcane orb!
Luckily i skimmed through your post and read your meteor comment to know you have no idea what you're talking about and stopped there.
for he to-day that sheds his blood with me
shall be my brother..."
Ya just stop there, that is a great way to debate....
I see lots of criticism but I don't see actual talk about the spells other than slow arcane orb... and the guy above me who stopped at meteor because I thought it had a 3 second cast time but the real question, was that the only mistake I made? Do you have video or blue post of meteor being fired. How about the numbers.... how about the damage. Some of this stuff I learned from people here, like the Arcane Torrent with red rune I didn't know that 2 days ago...
Basically an unmodified disintegrate on a wizard with 500 attack will deal 510-642 per second. The 120% bonus arcane damage will increase it to 612-770 per second.
The same wizard with no runes to meteor will still deal 1278-1746 plus 168-258 per second afterwards.
I highly doubt arcane torrent's bonus damage ability will allow it to severely outclass the wizard's strongest spell (aside from archon transformation).
Also: Wizards have so much ability to recover arcane power. With signature spells granting up to 26 arcane power per use without even critting... I have a feeling that meteor WILL be spammable.
for argument sake lets say you are able to control your AoE and hit everything with torrent or meteor kay?
Arcane Torrent crimson rune increases arcane dmg to 120%!!! after it first hits
base AT +120%AT +120%AT = doing this in my head lands one cast of AT to be around 800 dmg, so good right?
Now let us take Meteor and use the Indigo rune shall we?
Take the avg of 139-189 139+182 /2 = 164 now x14 = 2296
2296 vs 800 ya ok is it that hard to pick? Now lets add some realism, assuming that only 1/2 your meteor hits via RNG its still what? 1150 dmg?
Now lets use Crimson Meteor Rune instead of Indigo... whats that it does near identical avg dmg per 1 cast?
for he to-day that sheds his blood with me
shall be my brother..."
http://www.diablofans.com/topic/29066-how-crits-work/
MIAT = Molten Impact Arcane Torrent
DIAT = Disintegrate Intensify Arcane Torrent
Using avg of 210 damage for DIAT: 210+(210 X 1.8) = 588 damage
DIAT over 4 seconds= 2352
641 damage for MIAT: 641+(641 X 1.8) = 1794.8 + 94 = 1888.8 total damage over 4 seconds
555 avg damage for MIAT: 555+(555 X 1.8) = 1554 + 94 = 1648 total damage over 4 seconds
Meteor has damage difference of 172 between the high and low
Disintegrate damage difference is 46 and it will be just under the ap regen so you should have a net gain of 1 ap per second while doing DIAT that's like adding lean muscle too !
I didn't factor the 94 damage of meteor... probably should.
If crits don't multiply your total damage wouldn't that be yet another benefit to disintegrate?
factor of 1.8 comes from 20% cannon, 40% familiar, 120% Arcane torrent.
We are talking about Meteor with Arcane Torrent and Disintegrate with Arcane Torrent but over the same time, Disintegrate is still higher and more chance to crit. I'll take Liverymen's honest debate with calculations over personal attacks any day.
If you want to use use Arcane Torrent for one tick of BASE AT damage to get the 120% buff then go to Disint, it still wont beat out Meteor+one spell
sorry. Meteor fucking OP!
The ONLY downfall to meteor is the high cost, that's it. If you have to have a long sustain fight and you lack good arcane regen ATbase+Disint+Disint+Disint+Disint+ATbase/Disint (latency pending) could very well beat Meteor + Filler + Filler + Meteor/Filler +Meteor/Filler (latency pending) + Filler.
However if your finding that Arcane Regen is not a problem then Meteor beats it out hands down. If you have rank 7 runes, im assuming regen is not going to be a problem with the gear.
for he to-day that sheds his blood with me
shall be my brother..."
Furthermore, channeled abilities ARE ABSOLUTELY GARBAGE in Diablo compared to fire and forget abilities.
what dat guy said
for he to-day that sheds his blood with me
shall be my brother..."
The mana problem is a BIG problem if your using pinpoint barrier your shield is screwed, but with storm armor and diamond skin I think they would run circles around a meteor user, even if the Meteor cast is point blank right on target, if they have diamond skin on.... they are going to dampen the power of it if not eliminate it completely.
Disintegrate with pinpoint barrier is much easier on the ap and you should critical more often, also, Ray of Frost with Snow Blast does more damage than disintegrate if your fighting 1 target (if it is arcane). Either way to max damage, pinpoint barrier, Arcane Torrent with Disintegrate (intensify) or Ray of Frost (snow blast) would be killer against Meteor or instead.
Arcane Torrent's Disruption rune effect only increases damage 120% with skills that deal Arcane damage. It would definitely go great with Disintegrate, as you noted. The effect last 6 seconds. (120% Increase dmg) so here's some math that I"m thinking of. After you cast AT on a target, you probably only have about 5 seconds left of the 120% increase.
----------
Disintegrate-(Crimson Rune) -- 188 - 234 Arcane damage per second. The average is 211/sec. Obviously, it increases over time, but best case scenario and for the sake of discussion, we'll take the averages/sec.
211 damage X 120% increased dmg = 464 damage
464 damage X 5 seconds = 2321 Arcane Damage total
Arcane Torrent cost - 20 AP
Disintegrate cost for 5/sec - 100 AP
TOTAL - 120 AP cost to take advantage of Disintegrate's powerful damage potential
----------
Meteor - Indigo - (Meteor Shower)- Unleash a volley of 14 smaller meteors that strike for 139 - 189 Fire damage.
Again, take the average of each meteor - 161 damage.
161 damage X 14 meteors = 2296 damage total
Meteor cost - 60 AP
TOTAL - 60 AP to do the same damage, without any % damage increases, for CHEAPER.
----------
Frost Nova - Crimson Rune - Enemies take 110% more damage while frozen or chilled by Frost Nova. An explosion of ice freezes nearby enemies for 4 seconds and causes 28 - 50 Cold damage.
THEN USE
Ray of Frost - Crimson Rune - Damage increases slowly over 1.5 seconds to inflict a maximum of 369 - 434 Cold damage per second.
Again, taking the average per/sec, 401.5/sec
401.5 X 110% increase damage = 843.15 damage
843.15 X 4 seconds = 3372.6 damage total.
Frost Nova cost - 0 AP
RoF cost for 4 seconds - 116
TOTAL - 116 AP to do more damage at same cost (just about) as ArcTorr/Disint combo.
--------
Or swap out RoF with Slow Time (I wouldn't, I appreciate the stun effect from RoF) and take advantage of the 140% increase in damage !!! When Frost Nova/Slow Time 'capture's' enemies, then Ray of Frost starts looking better than Disintegrate. And Meteor stands on its own.
Just my thoughts,
DKR