BoA Versus Free Trade: *Is* There A Compromise?

  • Now, to set the record straight, I'm ambivalent about the whole thing. I doubt I'll trade much outside of my Clan. So long as the game is not balanced around the idea of trading, I probably won't kick up a fuss either way.

    That said, I do see why BoA could be better for the game in the long run.
    - It removes the extremely predatory community that arises around free trade games where scamming is not moderated in any form. I have unpleasant memories of the D2 boards where people complaining about being scammed were likely to be roundly insulted and the scammer saluted, if anything.

    - It significantly decreases 3rd party transactions and thus reduces the motivation of gold farmers, botters, account hackers etc, which mitigates a *slew* of other issues. Of course account selling will always be a reality, but it's so risky for both buyer and seller that I doubt it will ever become an epidemic.

    - It makes people's achivements at least somewhat legitimate. Okay, this is a weaker one and definitely one that sounds silly to a lot of people. But many streamers have been fed gear/gold by subscribers? While sure, D3 is not a competitive game, I like to think that the loot I'm admiring on some godly geared player has been earned legitimately, and I'd like to think that the loot others see on me is regarded similarly. The recent actions by a fairly prominent streamer/Dfans community member have left something of a bad smell.

    That said...

    I do understand that some people feel very strongly about this issue. Some people feel that trading is an essential part of the Diablo experience. And I do personally enjoy the ability to share loot among me and my friends or clanmates, or being able to drop a ton of good loot on an unsuspecting newbie.

    And so...

    Is there some middle ground between the two? One that can mitigate the negative effects of trading (predatory scam savvy community, 3rd party transactions, lack of legitimacy of own achievements/gear channeling) while retaining the good points?

    Personally, I'd love to hear them.

    To me (two possibilities:)

    1) Ladder.

    Make Ladder BoA with a 6 month season. Perhaps accelerate droprates slightly and make Ladder only content (even if it's only visual rewards) to encourage participation. Make Open free trade.

    I think that this would offer a good middleground between people who want free trade and people who don't.

    Possible problems:
    - Constant complaints from people wanting Ladder to be Free Trade. Trust me...they would be there.
    - 3rd party sites and the like would still flourish to some extent.

    2) ClanTrade.

    Yeah, yeah, this is definitely my own personal 'pet' concept. Essentially it would work whereby anyone a member of a Clan at the time an item drops can be traded that item within two hours.

    To me this adds an extra layer of protection against real money trading (the inevitable JSP Clans would be fairly easy to identify once they got large enough) while still permitting friends to trade gear between each other to some extent.

    Possible problems:
    - People feel too pressured to join a large clan.
    - Megaclans develop for the purpose of facilitating RMT within this system.

    So...can anyone do any better?
  • Less debating each other's BattleTag identities. More debating ideas.

    This is a great thread; let's keep it focused.
  • 01/15/2014 01:11 AMPosted by TheSaint
    Question, what deems the thread to be great, and if you find value in that subject, how can the value be enhanced?


    Few things, and this certainly isn't an exhaustive list:

    - The discussion itself focuses on debating the merits of ideas rather than debating the merits of people. This also usually means that participants in the discussion remain civil towards one another, which in turn helps keep the thread on topic.

    - If something is disliked, the discussion includes reasons why, and those reasons are expressed constructively and from a personal perspective. So, for example, instead of being full of posts that say "I hate BoA, it sucks!" a great thread would be full of statements like "I don't like BoA because I feel like it limits my ability to help my friends." As a bonus, sometimes the discussion will also include proposed alternatives (along with reasons why that alternative would improve someone's personal gaming experience).

    - With the above, some of my favorite discussions are those where alternative solutions are also debated and evaluated within the framework of the current game.

    - Usually, the discussion will involve a lot of questions being asked back and forth, typically focused on one of two goals: 1) why do you like/not like [this one thing]? and 2) how would you personally change [this one thing] to make it better?

    - If there's disagreement between ideas, participants in the discussion with respect that fact (as well as other people's opinions in general).

    As for enhancing value? Tricky question because not all threads are the same. The biggest thing is always to explain why you have a certain opinion. That opinion is valid, as is the reasoning behind it. Additional context is always appreciated.

  • 01/15/2014 01:21 AMPosted by AngelOfDeath
    Color me confused.

    There can be multiple great threads on the same subject. Forum discussions aren't like Highlander.

    And, yes. I'm here to foster discussion -- because I care about what you think, not simply for the sake of fostering discussion itself.
  • 01/15/2014 01:38 AMPosted by Shrew
    Blue Lady, don't lock it. We're trying

    Don't intend to, and don't see the need at present. :)

    01/15/2014 01:40 AMPosted by TheSaint
    PS: Just had an earthquake :P

    Shock wave buddies! /highfive
  • 01/15/2014 01:46 AMPosted by TheSaint
    I am talking this topic specifically, though I do appreciate the time you took to type that, I do mean like actual subject matter from this topic, maybe you could isolate and enhance what you find to be important, as there is a decent about of hyperbole as well, proper guidance would help instruct on quality thread/posting procedures.This helps so we are not wasting our time trying to combat things that are set in stone, and help the community refocus its efforts on more worthwhile pursuits, other then using the forum as a cage match.

    Honestly, this particular thread is good as-is. While we're still pretty keen on the current BoA rule set, we're also still in development, which means that discussions like this one are definitely worth having. In particular, this thread stood out because a lot of the ideas and alternatives being discussed in it meshed (or were trying to mesh) with the main goals of the BoA system, rather than simply saying "trash it."* There have been other threads like this, too, and I made sure to follow those closely.

    Only reason I jumped in was to try to diffuse the sidebars about posting identities, which was starting to derail the main conversation.

    *Note: "Trash it" is a totally valid opinion, too. Just gives me less to work with.
  • 01/15/2014 01:59 AMPosted by Dogf
    Hope you've been reading those too.

    I have. Just didn't need to jump into those. :)
  • What is your primary crux of BoA? Without giving away security procedure, what in fact is the end goal? Greatest fears? Greatest hopes? If you are serious I will be serious, if you are not I won't bother spinning my wheels. Just being straight, and honest.

    Main goals:

    - Make it so that playing the game is the best way to get the best items. In this scenario, "playing the game" refers to the core mechanic, which is killing monsters. The designers really dig that kill monsters > get loot > kill more monsters > get more loot reward loop, and felt it was being compromised by the ease of trading, particularly for Legendary and Set items. We want those top-tier items to be earned through gameplay.
    - In light of the AH shutting down, still try to limit the negative impact the third-party market has on the game as much as possible. (This goes back to goal #1 and is one of the reasons why the current rules are set up the way they are.)

    Greatest hopes? That the new loot model for the majority of players feels rewarding and satisfying -- and natural, too -- and that there's an actual sense of personal progression as you advance from finding Rares to finding Legendaries. An item being BoA ideally won't be a dealbreaker because the loot hunt itself is in a good place (this is where the rewarding/satisfying/natural part comes in).

    Greatest fears? As with anything game design related, the greatest fear is that -- despite your research, your testing, your experience, and your gut -- what you've designed isn't fun for most players and winds up hindering the game more than helping it. We don't believe that will be the case with BoA (and feel it will actually be the opposite), but no one here is infallible.
  • 01/15/2014 02:43 AMPosted by TheTias
    Regarding the "feels natural" part - could you please reiterate to the devs that them putting the D3v item level "tier" system was not only jarring, but created massively frustrating brick walls at several points along the way?

    Can do. I know I saw it in Neva's feedback list, but doubling-down can't hurt. :)
  • 01/15/2014 02:45 AMPosted by Edriel
    Sleepless night?
    In America is quite late... or are you here in Europe for a tour in the Paris Blizz HQ? ;D

    I carpooled into work today, but my ride needed to leave before I did. Now I'm just too lazy to walk home. :P